Succession -- HBO

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

Shiv lost her gym membership. This makes me sad. 
 

Connor talking about his percent was pretty great. 
 

Cousin Greg has regressed. Banging Euro Trash 10’s to NYC bus stop 3’s. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by billfromlaketravis

[hornian 5222]

11 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Shiv lost her gym membership. This makes me sad. 

The actress is/was pregnant (and was pregnant during filming). 

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

Disgusting Bros needs to be a show. I’m dead. The new nickname only makes it more marketable. 

[Ted Lange 16110]

Different strokes for different folks but don’t get the shiv excitement.  
 

great first episode, so glad to have this show back.  Didn’t realize until tonight it’s been more than 2 years since the last season.  

[Dbeasy 15076]

On 10/7/2022 at 9:02 AM, wild_turkey said:

I just finished season 1. When this show first started, I thought it looked okay but that it would probably not have any characters I like or find myself able to root for. I passed on it until recently when I ran out of other shows and I noticed Succession got a lot of Emmy hype and figured it was worth trying.

I think my initial assessment was mostly correct. I hate everyone except Greg and Tom. Some of their scenes are pure gold but I’m not sure they are enough of a bright spot to keep me watching for 2 more seasons. The entire Roy family is insufferable.

Kendall is the guy I wanted to root for but he’s a stammering buffoon who steps on his own dick every chance he gets, when he’s not busy killing people. He doesn’t seem fit to run a major company so I can’t root for him to achieve that. “I..uh…want to be CEO…to uh…save the company..and…uh…do…good things.” He has no charisma or leadership abilities, can’t stand up to his dad, can’t stand up to his own siblings.

Logan is a sociopath asshole who only cares about himself and his company, and who seems incompetent at times (pissing on the rug, buying outdated business assets, driving the company into massive debt), but then at other times seems completely in control. The writing of his character seems disjointed to me. You could blame some of that on the stroke, but the massive debt would suggest he was losing his touch prior to the stroke.

Roman is a jackass and what I imagine many guys are like who are born into a family with fuck-you money. He has some funny one liners, and I appreciate that he will call people out for their bullshit, but he’s a cowering pussy around his dad and he’s incompetent when he’s given anything of importance to do (the satellite explosion).

Shiv is awful so far. Mainly I just don’t like watching her cheat on Tom, especially with that cheeseball Nate, who seems like he should be on a CW show. And she looks like Todd from Breaking Bad. And her boss, Senator Gil is the least charismatic politician who appears to be running for president on a platform of “I want to destroy a media conglomerate, vote for me.”

Connor is annoying as hell, but at least he had the right idea to get far away from the family business and chase young ass, even if he has to pay for it. Team Willa.

Not sure I should keep watching unless there is a dramatic improvement. I would like to believe the whole company crumbles, stock goes to zero, Logan dies of a heart attack, Kendall goes to jail for manslaughter, Roman dies of monkeypox, Tom leaves Shiv, and somehow Tom and Greg make out with a little money and start their own amusement park where Willa writes and performs in her own plays. Probably not getting that outcome.

That everyone is a train wreck is the whole point of the show. Do you really only watch entertainment where there are warm and fuzzy characters? You sound fragile. 

[LonghornSean 4012]

10 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

Different strokes for different folks but don’t get the shiv excitement.  
 

great first episode, so glad to have this show back.  Didn’t realize until tonight it’s been more than 2 years since the last season.  

About a year and a half. Season 3 was October-December of 2021.

[yoladu 4094]

this show helps my vocabulary.... pick up two new words for some pretty elegant writing.

 

• Why? Because she's brought a ludicrously capacious bag.

 

• Honestly, Rome, being rational, putting aside the internecine family concerns, the personal tittle-tattle, just think about how fսck¡ng funny it would be if we screw Dad over his decades-long obsession?

 

 

[HamsterHookah 112]

20 hours ago, yoladu said:

this show helps my vocabulary.... pick up two new words for some pretty elegant writing.

 

• Why? Because she's brought a ludicrously capacious bag.

 

• Honestly, Rome, being rational, putting aside the internecine family concerns, the personal tittle-tattle, just think about how fսck¡ng funny it would be if we screw Dad over his decades-long obsession?

 

 

Tom is still laugh out loud funny. One of the few characters who get written to make me belly laugh and his delivery is always on point:

“What’s even in there? Huh? Flat shoes for the subway? Her lunch pail? I mean, Greg, it’s monstrous. It’s gargantuan. You could take it camping. You could slide it across the floor after a bank job,”

Spoiler

Agree that Logan tanking the gojo deal is as telegraphed as can be; how many times did the "in 48 hours it's a done deal" get bandied about to foreshadow it.

I guess it was interesting seeing Tom/Shiv come to a conclusion of divorce, but I really wanted to see the fall out from the end of Season 3 when Tom betrayed her and how that was managed, versus the implications we got peppered throughout this episode. It worked fine, just personal preference and probably because Tom is why I love the show and the more scenes he can chew the better for my tastes.

Edited March 29, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[Red Five 40877]

I like how Tom turns the name Greg into about four syllables. It's fun to say it that way. 

[HamsterHookah 112]

16 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I like how Tom turns the name Greg into about four syllables. It's fun to say it that way. 

I love how you can't take the St. Paul out of him fully. I am still not sure that Tom was being honest with Greg and not just trolling him about the CCTV and goading Greg him to tell on himself to Uncle Logan. It seemed like he was, but nothing more came of it.

[Red Five 40877]

What did Greg say? "It was not my intent to soil these halls". lulz

[4th&Five 41571]

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2738]

I'm only on Season 2 at the wedding episodes.  Pretty good so far.  I can tolerate Roman but Tom cracks me up.  He's Jekyl & Hyde.  

[deadshank 24653]

On 3/28/2023 at 4:46 AM, Dbeasy said:

That everyone is a train wreck is the whole point of the show. Do you really only watch entertainment where there are warm and fuzzy characters? You sound fragile. 

Finally. Someone understands this black comedy’s characters.  

Edited March 29, 2023 by deadshank

[Bartles 769]

On 3/27/2023 at 12:36 PM, yoladu said:

 

6 bedrooms, 18 bathrooms???

As a middle aged man with a terrible diet, I appreciate that but it seems a little much

[LonghornJones 837]

I think Tom wants to hold on to the Roys as long as he can. Once he gets a divorce, Logan has no allegiance to him, no matter how loyal he was in the past. Tom is still scared of prison time.

[Chewbacca 7780]

1 hour ago, HamsterHookah said:

Tom is still laugh out loud funny. One of the few characters who get written to make me belly laugh and his delivery is always on point:

“What’s even in there? Huh? Flat shoes for the subway? Her lunch pail? I mean, Greg, it’s monstrous. It’s gargantuan. You could take it camping. You could slide it across the floor after a bank job,”

  Hide contents

Agree that Logan tanking the gojo deal is as telegraphed as can be; how many times did the "in 48 hours it's a done deal" get bandied about to foreshadow it.

I guess it was interesting seeing Tom/Shiv come to a conclusion of divorce, but I really wanted to see the fall out from the end of Season 3 when Tom betrayed her and how that was managed, versus the implications we got peppered throughout this episode. It worked fine, just personal preference and probably because Tom is why I love the show and the more scenes he can chew the better for my tastes.

Tom convincing Greg he had to tell Logan about messing around with the girl in the guest bedroom was amazing.  He's almost as evil as Shiv.

[Chewbacca 7780]

1 minute ago, LonghornJones said:

I think Tom wants to hold on to the Roys as long as he can. Once he gets a divorce, Logan has no allegiance to him, no matter how loyal he was in the past. Tom is still scared of prison time.

If we're good, then we're good.

That's heartening to hear.  Very heartening.  

 

[HamsterHookah 112]

15 minutes ago, Bartles said:

6 bedrooms, 18 bathrooms???

As a middle aged man with a terrible diet, I appreciate that but it seems a little much

Lil Wayne said it best "Big house long hallways got ten bathrooms I could sh*t all day n**** (n****a)"

3 minutes ago, LonghornJones said:

I think Tom wants to hold on to the Roys as long as he can. Once he gets a divorce, Logan has no allegiance to him, no matter how loyal he was in the past. Tom is still scared of prison time.

"If we are good, we're good" was a classic Logan line that didn't tell you anything or give any assurances. I thought that was masterfully done.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

1 hour ago, HamsterHookah said:

"If we are good, we're good" was a classic Logan line that didn't tell you anything or give any assurances. I thought that was masterfully done.

"Very heartening.... I'm very heartened..." 

 

[henrygandorf 29194]

2 hours ago, LonghornJones said:

I think Tom wants to hold on to the Roys as long as he can. Once he gets a divorce, Logan has no allegiance to him, no matter how loyal he was in the past. Tom is still scared of prison time.

yeah, they weren't married very long and i'm sure she had an ironclad pre-nup.  so tom has a nice gig, high up in a company, but that's all he has.  the kids all have their shares/inheritances to fall back on (if/when the company sells) and assets they've acquired using family money.  tom is just a ~well-paid executive.  even with stock options, he'll probably never be wealthy.  if the sale goes through, he's probably fucked (i know we're all assuming it won't).

he's made two moves to show his loyalty - the prison volunteer and pointing out the settlement with the ex (that allowed the buyout).  those should earn some loyalty, but he's not family.  logan turns on everyone eventually.  not sure how frank is still hanging around.

[HamsterHookah 112]

18 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

yeah, they weren't married very long and i'm sure she had an ironclad pre-nup.  so tom has a nice gig, high up in a company, but that's all he has.  the kids all have their shares/inheritances to fall back on (if/when the company sells) and assets they've acquired using family money.  tom is just a ~well-paid executive.  even with stock options, he'll probably never be wealthy.  if the sale goes through, he's probably fucked (i know we're all assuming it won't).

he's made two moves to show his loyalty - the prison volunteer and pointing out the settlement with the ex (that allowed the buyout).  those should earn some loyalty, but he's not family.  logan turns on everyone eventually.  not sure how frank is still hanging around.

I think the show tried to show Logan working through some higher order relational thinking though, as he sees the end is near (and we know the end of the show is near), in his pondering about spiritual afterlife, telling Colin he is his pal, asking about the nature of people (and how they are just peons that create markets) and even his lament that people don’t tell jokes anymore.

It seems as if Logan might be a character that grows this season beyond what we’ve seen that would allow him to take care of Tom, maybe

[Jerry Callo 8709]

3 hours ago, deadshank said:

Finally. Someone understands this black comedy’s characters.  

Possibly racist.  Yeah, it is fun to watch people take this show, clearly a satire, seriously.

[Pig Bellmont 8719]

5 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

and even his lament that people don’t tell jokes anymore.

I took that as him missing Roman and acting out bc none of his kids were there on his birthday 

[HamsterHookah 112]

1 minute ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I took that as him missing Roman and acting out bc none of his kids were there on his birthday 

Maybe so. Which, Greg showed some cojones with his “where are your kids!?” Roast line. I guess we are to infer that Greg’s dad is/was closet gay based on Logan’s response or was he just being vulgar in his responding insult?

[oSuJeff97 3435]

51 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Maybe so. Which, Greg showed some cojones with his “where are your kids!?” Roast line. I guess we are to infer that Greg’s dad is/was closet gay based on Logan’s response or was he just being vulgar in his responding insult?

Little of column A, little of column B?   

[HamsterHookah 112]

New Yorker article discussing a little bit about the changes in Logan Roy, potentially, as well as the other Roy Children:

Spoiler

They haven’t forgotten the cruelty of their father’s ploy in the Season 3 finale, when he outflanked Kendall, Roman, and Shiv in their plan to block the sale of the family firm by weaponizing their mother against them. That defeat had left Roman literally on the ground while a stunned Kendall and Shiv stared on. Now, finally, they seem to be refusing to play Logan’s little game and forgive him all his faults.

Instead, we find them camped out in another blandly gorgeous compound plotting a venture of their own, a “disruptor” news platform called the Hundred. (“Substack meets MasterClass meets The Economist meets The New Yorker,” Kendall explains.) The siblings’ exchanges are, as always, delightfully barbed and a bit puerile. “Your face is giving me a headache,” Roman tells Shiv by way of a greeting. But as a threesome they seem the closest, the most at ease, they’ve been around one another in a long time. All is seemingly on track for launch of the Hundred until Shiv receives a call from her estranged husband, Tom Wambsgans (Matthew Macfadyen), and we’re reminded of all that ugly business from the Season 3 finale—including how Tom’s betrayal of Shiv’s confidence allowed Logan to thwart the siblings’ plans. This time, it’s Tom’s call that tips Shiv off to Logan’s latest move, to revive his efforts to acquire a rival network. The kids decide that they’ll vie against daddy one more time and make a competing offer.

Meanwhile, at the party, Logan gets fed up with the parade of sycophants. He goes out for a walk with his bodyguard, whom he calls his “best pal,” and ends up in a Manhattan diner. What comes next might have been Logan’s raging-on-the-heath moment, the embittered cry of an alienated patriarch, but instead of wrathful he is uncharacteristically resigned. His monologue that follows starts with a lofty non sequitur: “What are . . . people? They’re economic units. I’m a hundred feet tall. These people are pygmies. But together they form a market.” From there, Logan unspools a meditation that reveals the extent to which market-mindedness has become a world view that he cannot escape, and Brian Cox delivers one of the finest bits of television acting I’ve seen in a while. Becoming wistful, Logan continues, “Everything I try to do, people turn against me. Nothing tastes like it used to, does it? Nothing’s the same as it was.” He asks his security pal whether he thinks there’s something after “all this.” The security pal says that he doesn’t know, and then Logan lands one of my favorite lines of the show: “That’s it. We can’t know. But I’ve got my suspicions. I’ve got my fucking suspicions.” Even when contemplating life’s greatest mystery, what another of Shakespeare’s doomed royals, Hamlet, called the “undiscovered country from whose bourn / No traveler returns,” Logan is ever the leery operator, convinced of his own superior instincts.

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The script in these new episodes demands far more of the actors than what we’ve seen in the past. It opens up a more generous palette of feeling and situation. Connor, the forgotten Roy sibling, is a subject of pathos rather than merely of buffoonish comic relief. Roman has modes other than snotty sarcasm, and even seems to experience stirrings of concern for others. In previous seasons, all of the Roy family relationships felt utterly transactional, and to some extent they still are. But the characters seem suddenly aware that there’s more on the line than just business, that by treating their relationships as a marketplace they’re trading something away. In one episode, Kendall asks Shiv to trust him, just trust him, and we watch as Shiv fights with herself. She has little reason to trust anyone in her family, and we don’t yet know whether the siblings will be able to forge a new, more forgiving Roy legacy. Some might say that we do not watch shows like “Succession” for the people, that creative quips and scathing banter are enough to carry an hour of weekly entertainment. But I don’t know that I believe that. As a miniseries, “Succession” could have been an entertaining but impersonal satire. Perhaps in its final season it will finally become great television. ♦

 

[Sawbonz 27580]

I’m just not feeling it. Maybe the 18 month hiatus but it just feels a little forced and there is no subtlety. I’ll give it a couple more episodes 

[sidis 9832]

9 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I’m just not feeling it. Maybe the 18 month hiatus but it just feels a little forced and there is no subtlety. I’ll give it a couple more episodes 

you're saying you miss the subtle humor of roman sending dick picks he meant to send to geri to his dad during a meeting?

[Sawbonz 27580]

12 minutes ago, sidis said:

you're saying you miss the subtle humor of roman sending dick picks he meant to send to geri to his dad during a meeting?

More like the machinations. It seems like they know they don’t have much time left and they are forcing the plot lines along

[Party_Taco 3752]

More like the machinations. It seems like they know they don’t have much time left and they are forcing the plot lines along

Well, I personally find the sense of urgency refreshing. Last season was a beating for plot progression…

[Frank Erwin 203]

On 3/28/2023 at 2:18 AM, Ted Lange said:

Different strokes for different folks but don’t get the shiv excitement.  
 

great first episode, so glad to have this show back.  Didn’t realize until tonight it’s been more than 2 years since the last season.  

I also don't have a thing for fat, ugly, pasty redheads, but god bless the guys that do.  That's why they make fords and chevys (or Dodges in Shiv's case)

[Celery Man 20981]

Man they were really beating us over head with how full of shit Nan Pierce and co are. Was it that overt in season 2 or whenever they were first targeting them for acquisition?

[oSuJeff97 3435]

6 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Man they were really beating us over head with how full of shit Nan Pierce and co are. Was it that overt in season 2 or whenever they were first targeting them for acquisition?

Yes pretty much.

Nan Pierce (and family) are supposed to be representing aristocratic "old money" New Englanders... in that they are rich as fuck but want to pretend like they aren't, throwing around transparent platitudes like "we don't like to talk about money" or "this whole thing is so vulgar".... etc., etc., but meanwhile they are just as relentless in getting what they want and increasing their wealth as the Roys.

[Wade 464]

Meh, just strong negotiating tactics, imo.

[hornian 5222]

Am I the only one that actually watches on Sundays here?

 

All the posts positing that it would be Logan who kills the deal, and it’s actually Shiv because she’s pissed about divorce attorneys. What a turn. 

[A-Tex Devil 2451]

I am trying to pinpoint why the Mattson call flipped Kendall.  Saw the chance to screw his dad and willing to call Mattson’s bluff?  And/or saw it as weakness concern from Mattson?  

In any event, great episode.  

[Party_Taco 3752]

I am trying to pinpoint why the Mattson call flipped Kendall.  Saw the chance to screw his dad and willing to call Mattson’s bluff?  And/or saw it as weakness concern from Mattson?  
In any event, great episode.  

Kendall has been around to know his father’s own tactics, and that play crystallized Mattson’s seeming weakness in the waning moments of negotiation. Enough that he became interested in the data, which at least as compiled, showed him there was wiggle room.

Personally I think he knows this may blow the deal, but don’t believe that he cares. He’s in to fuck his dad any way possible and make him feel just an ounce of the pain he’s dealt out.

Anyway, that was a phenomenal episode of television and really explored the range of these characters. Especially nice to see Shiv get her claws back out, even if her own problems on the home front didn’t allow her to savor the momentary victory.

[bolverk 29700]

I can't recall my Shakespeare well enough but the Tom and Greg shenanigans remind me of a couple of side characters in one of his plays who play comic relief really well while the serious drama is unfolding elsewhere. Tom's ducking of responsibility and goading Greg into telling Logan's assistant she wasn't ready for primetime was, as always, a nice little scene.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Fucking Roman, man.

[kingkoopa6 8377]

This episode was fantastic. 
 

It was great. 
 

haha Greg still cracks me up 

[kingkoopa6 8377]

And Roy unleashed his acting chops 

[hornian 5222]

4 hours ago, kingkoopa6 said:

And Roy unleashed his acting chops 

Which Roy? They’re all over this show. 

[yoladu 4094]

11 hours ago, A-Tex Devil said:

I am trying to pinpoint why the Mattson call flipped Kendall.  Saw the chance to screw his dad and willing to call Mattson’s bluff?  And/or saw it as weakness concern from Mattson?  

In any event, great episode.  

Matsson looked a wreck. Downing soda and snacks, in what looked like a lazy boy with a wife beater on. I think it was Kendall sensing weakness in Matsson's position rather than trying to screw his dad.

the whole thing seems senselessly risky. The kids can't buy Pierce without the GoJo deal occurring. I couldn't quite understand how much more they thought they could squeeze from Matsson. Did they say $100 million?... seems like pennies when they were throwing around billions when haggling with Nan.

Oh and another new word learned : Stakhanovite

Tom is such a weasel, pawning off that task to Greg (shit runs downhill, i guess)  and the "yes man" stuff from Tom was a bit much. I don't know, in his position i feel like he could be a bit more honest with Logan. I mean hell, he was trusted to be the go-between in a multi billion dollar negotiation with Pierce.

Did the Kerry thing make the air or did the Logan kids / Hugo somehow get a clip of it? Couldn't tell.

 

that was another amazing episode. i am savoring these last few episodes we are going to get this series with glee tinged with a bit of sadness.

Edited April 3, 2023 by yoladu

[yoladu 4094]

10 hours ago, bolverk said:

I can't recall my Shakespeare well enough but the Tom and Greg shenanigans remind me of a couple of side characters in one of his plays who play comic relief really well while the serious drama is unfolding elsewhere. Tom's ducking of responsibility and goading Greg into telling Logan's assistant she wasn't ready for primetime was, as always, a nice little scene.

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern in Hamlet? Good call.

[yoladu 4094]

2 hours ago, hornian said:

Which Roy? They’re all over this show. 

i assume Conner.

 “The good thing about having a family that doesn’t love you is that you learn to live without it. You’re all chasing after dad, saying, ‘Oh, love me. Please love me. I need love, I need attention.’ You’re needy love sponges, and I’m a plant that grows on rocks and lives off insects that die inside of me.”

[Red Five 40877]

"This is Guantanamo level shit. I think I want to hear Desperado now. Please."

[YGIFS 19452]

35 minutes ago, yoladu said:

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern in Hamlet? Good call.

They're dead, Jim.  

[oSuJeff97 3435]

11 hours ago, Party_Taco said:

Kendall has been around to know his father’s own tactics, and that play crystallized Mattson’s seeming weakness in the waning moments of negotiation. Enough that he became interested in the data, which at least as compiled, showed him there was wiggle room.

Personally I think he knows this may blow the deal, but don’t believe that he cares. He’s in to fuck his dad any way possible and make him feel just an ounce of the pain he’s dealt out.

I think it was 100% him sensing weakness in Mattson and ALSO knowing that they are massively over-paying for Pierce, so if he senses the opportunity to squeeze out another couple hundred million out of the deal he's going to try and do it.

I don't think that he (Kendall) thinks that pushing for more will blow the deal. He's thinking Mattson's whole "I'll just walk away" thing is a negotiating tactic because that's what he's used to ... I think the issue may be that Mattson WILL walk away.

And I'm not really sure how that would "fuck" Logan. All that does is give him his entire company back and we're right back to where we were. Logan has the company and the power and the kids are back to being subordinate to him because they sure and shit can't buy Pierce without cashing out after the Gojo deal.

[YGIFS 19452]

But if the kids can't buy Pierce without the Gojo money, Pierce is back to Logan's previous offer then...so Logan becomes viable again.  But he wants to run ATN full time as his swan song (even if he won't admit his age).