Succession -- HBO

[hornian 5219]

55 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

 

Plus, I'll have to go back and look, but I think the initial shot of the kids finding out was one continuous shot (no cuts).

 

I watched the behind the scenes thing they do after the episode, and the director said they did both a continuous take, and shot scenes individually. They sort of gave credit to Kieran Culkin and the Director for the idea. But the director did say that more of the continuous take made it into the episode. 

Also read an interview linked by Alan Sepinwall with the actress who plays Shiv. She said that even when the stuff in the episode was in a different room (for example, Kendall going outside for a call), they left one camera in the room with Roman/Shiv on the phone with Tom, and they had to ad lib things that weren't in the script. She said she didn't know how much, if any of that ad libbing made it into the episode, but that is a whole different level of staying in character/living the emotions that you're acting. 

Also Kieran Culkin said something about the toll it took on him and the other actors to film this episode. Having to spend 2 weeks or however long in that emotional headspace, and then go home and try to remember he didn't actually suffer an emotional catastrophe even though his body felt like he had. Made me think of Heath Ledger, and how he died after playing the Joker. Hadn't really thought of it like that until then, because obviously Heath isn't around to have an interview like that. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by hornian

[Aqua Buddha 14598]

13 hours ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Pretty brilliant idea

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2023-04-09/logan-roy-succession-dead-obituary

That's good.  Well done.

[Augustus 3061]

2 hours ago, hornian said:

I watched the behind the scenes thing they do after the episode, and the director said they did both a continuous take, and shot scenes individually. They sort of gave credit to Kieran Culkin and the Director for the idea. But the director did say that more of the continuous take made it into the episode. 

Also read an interview linked by Alan Sepinwall with the actress who plays Shiv. She said that even when the stuff in the episode was in a different room (for example, Kendall going outside for a call), they left one camera in the room with Roman/Shiv on the phone with Tom, and they had to ad lib things that weren't in the script. She said she didn't know how much, if any of that ad libbing made it into the episode, but that is a whole different level of staying in character/living the emotions that you're acting. 

Also Kieran Culkin said something about the toll it took on him and the other actors to film this episode. Having to spend 2 weeks or however long in that emotional headspace, and then go home and try to remember he didn't actually suffer an emotional catastrophe even though his body felt like he had. Made me think of Heath Ledger, and how he died after playing the Joker. Hadn't really thought of it like that until then, because obviously Heath isn't around to have an interview like that. 

I've read lots of examples over the years of actors being really emotionally impacted by their roles/performances.

Janet Leigh wouldn't shower after making Psycho.  Isabella Adjani was in therapy for years after making Possession.

The Shining really fucked up Shelly Duval, but that probably had more to do with Kubrick torturing her than the character, perhaps.

[HamsterHookah 112]

16 hours ago, hornian said:

Hole. E. Shit. 
 

Did anyone else notice the pronounced lack of music during the main part of the episode?  From when the phone call started until the plane landed I don’t think there was any music at all. Just let the actors do their thing. 

Saw the actor/director notes at the end and they said it was essentially a 27 minute long, 28 page scene. They had to hide film reels and cameras around the set for quick reloads, etc.

Edit to add: you later saw it and posted it. sorry to be redundant. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[HamsterHookah 112]

The Kerry character I hope gets completely cut out now and that will be funny.

[Chuckie Finster 22701]

25 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

The Kerry character I hope gets completely cut out now and that will be funny.

Spoiler

 

[Augustus 3061]

Oh, while I was busy praising Culkin's performance, MacFadyen was his usual fantastic self, as well.  Really composed for quite some time, then the tears finally came.

And then of course he was able to inject his humor regarding the santa claus stocking.

Someone please remind me:  What's in the files Tom instructed Greg to delete?

[Celery Man 20968]

oh man this episode got so good that we all forgot about the Tom/Greg moment. "Don't make me a word, I'm a guy. And why do you have all these lil guys, these little Greggies?"

[Red Five 40862]

Greglets. 

[hornian 5219]

44 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

oh man this episode got so good that we all forgot about the Tom/Greg moment. "Don't make me a word, I'm a guy. And why do you have all these lil guys, these little Greggies?"

 

39 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Greglets. 

From Reddit:

Quote

 

Me at the top of the episode: Greglets, lol.

Me at the end of the episode: I will never emotionally recover from this.

 

 

[HamsterHookah 112]

I can kinda get what everyone is saying and feeling (here and abroad on reddit and twitter), but this episode didn't do it for me and felt like a slog, which I guess was the entire point with the 27 minute long single shot. Logan dying was inevitable and I do love how they did it off screen and didn't film it happening and the people on the plane trying to save him, but idk-- I've cut family off for way less than what Logan has done all those years so I don't have a ton of sympathy or empathy watching the toxic emotional fall-out when he finally passes and the damaged kids are dealing with it. It was good television but nowhere near "I'll never emotionally recover from this" or "best hour of television I've ever seen" for my tastes.

I thought the most emotionally wrenching stuff was the Con stuff-- the obvious trauma with the "looney cake" he still deals with as a bit of PTSD as a kid and more the coming to terms that his marriage is a sham and his wife married him for his money and the emotional vulnerability of admitting that he fears if he doesn't go through with it now, it will never happen and her emotional honesty right back at him.

That said, the Tom/Greg stuff was funny and I'm hoping we get more of that duo in the ensuing jostling that will occur as Tom needs an ally and Greg is fringe family and needs one too as foreshadowed with his icy relationship with the three main Roy sibs and how he was already awkwardly trying to play the "family has to stick together card" that went over like a lead balloon.

[SizzleChest 8284]

At no time did that ep feel like a slog for me.  Was it an emotional grind?  Absolutely.  But, a slog?  GTFO.

[Ted Lange 16110]

1 hour ago, HamsterHookah said:

I can kinda get what everyone is saying and feeling (here and abroad on reddit and twitter), but this episode didn't do it for me

Who is saying that here?

[billfromlaketravis 11517]

Spoiler

Bravo. It takes serious balls to kill off Brian Cox offscreen and away from the kids. Only a show like Succession could pull it off. 

It was tough episode dealing estrangement, unresolved issues, and the death of a loved one that doesn't necessarily love you back. It was brutally honest. No closure. Logan died without reconciling with Kendall and Shiv. And he missed his eldest son's wedding + he made Roman fire the woman he's had the most "normal relationship" of his life with. This is how it works in real life. Sometimes you don't get to say good bye. And that good bye is rarely mutually acceptable. It's one of the reasons why therapists continue to print money. 

Now the fun begins. The kids fighting like hyenas for a bone. 

My non-spoiler thoughts : 

- Tom knows where the bodies are buried, but that will only get him so far. He needs to fix his marriage with Shiv to have any hope of coming out ahead. Shiv likely knows about his Disgusting Bros adventures, so it's a tough road ahead. 

- I kind of think Connor is out of the family business. He has what he wants, Willa. I think he trades his 1% for a Cabinet position. 

- I guess Roman needs his weird ass Oedipus relationship with Gerri now more than ever. I could see them teaming up. 

- Kendall par for the course. Tried to take control of the situation, got told to calm down, and then slings back into his shell. 

- Any Shiv theories? I've seen a couple snippets about her having a secret side deal with an unknown party.  

- I think Marcia is going to show up with her attorney looking for a bigger piece.

 

[Jerry Callo 8704]

Amazing episode with outstanding acting by the kids.

What a great way to stage the season. First two episodes with the kids trying to work together (in their usual dysfunctional way). Third episode kids drawn closer together through tragedy. Rest of season is back to the clawing and backstabbing. The ultimate question - who wins in the end.

[lemonlime 5503]

4 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

I can kinda get what everyone is saying and feeling (here and abroad on reddit and twitter), but this episode didn't do it for me and felt like a slog, which I guess was the entire point with the 27 minute long single shot. Logan dying was inevitable and I do love how they did it off screen and didn't film it happening and the people on the plane trying to save him, but idk-- I've cut family off for way less than what Logan has done all those years so I don't have a ton of sympathy or empathy watching the toxic emotional fall-out when he finally passes and the damaged kids are dealing with it. It was good television but nowhere near "I'll never emotionally recover from this" or "best hour of television I've ever seen" for my tastes.

 

I think the reality of that is what made it an emotional slog.  How you react when a family member you're estranged from dies, or when you have no fucking clue what to say.  While the extremes Logan went to against his kids are, I hope, not usual, the reactions to the death of someone with whom you have a complicated relationship with, and when you had no chance to repair it, seem much more real to and difficult to recover from in a lot of ways, then the typical tv death scene where a beloved family member dies.

[LonghornSean 4008]

Hard to predict how it all shakes out with the siblings but clearly they’re going to fight it out amongst themselves, to our enjoyment. Tom is in a vulnerable position and he clearly knows and feels that.

But one safe bet IMO, is that Greg is going to get completely railroaded and thrown to the wolves going forward, after starting the season with a kind of confidence and esteem that he’s been building up to through the series so far.

[Party_Taco 3742]

You say that, yet Greg was once again just given access to some VERY damaging information, and he’s proven himself capable of doing what’s necessary to survive (see the conference room firing earlier this season - Roman pissed himself with a similar task).

I wouldn’t count Greg out… something tells me he finds a way to be more disgusting than those who have spent a lifetime wading in the muck.

[mchookem 16336]

holy shit. that was absolutely incredible tv. at one point my heart rate was 112!

man...Roman broke my heart! worried his dad was on the phone, that the last thing he heard was Roman asking if he was being a cunt. practically begging for comfort from Gerri, but she justifiably wouldn't give it. 

Shiv really doesn't like her mom lol.

just wow.

 

[kingkoopa6 8369]

Carrie did it 

[Jerry Callo 8704]

14 minutes ago, kingkoopa6 said:

Carrie did it 

*Kerry.  And that is not an unreasonable take.

[Celery Man 20968]

11 hours ago, Jerry Callo said:

Amazing episode with outstanding acting by the kids.

What a great way to stage the season. First two episodes with the kids trying to work together (in their usual dysfunctional way). Third episode kids drawn closer together through tragedy. Rest of season is back to the clawing and backstabbing. The ultimate question - who wins in the end.

[CooterBrown 18015]

When Logan was trying to make amends with his kids, he talked right over a bunch of topics and offhandedly said something about the family trust but glossed over it and kept talking. That surely wasn't put in the script without purpose.

I would think the trust holds the ownership of the company.  Maybe he completely cut them out of the trust and during that scene he was alluding that he needed to go back and fix it for the benefit of the kids.

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by CooterBrown

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20429]

18 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

The Kerry character I hope gets completely cut out now and that will be funny.

Can't happen. She's pregnant with Logan's baby.

[SizzleChest 8284]

45 minutes ago, Jerry Callo said:

*Kerry.  And that is not an unreasonable take.

I actually thought she might eventually murder someone after Ep 2, but I figured it would be Greg, Tom, or one of the kids and not Logan.

Seems pretty plausible, especially if she's pregnant with his baby.  The Roys will just have her and the baby murdered - would be dark as fuck, but it's already dark as fuck.

[HamsterHookah 112]

10 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

I actually thought she might eventually murder someone after Ep 2, but I figured it would be Greg, Tom, or one of the kids and not Logan.

Seems pretty plausible, especially if she's pregnant with his baby.  The Roys will just have her and the baby murdered - would be dark as fuck, but it's already dark as fuck.

You are talking Shakespeare territory now.

[Celery Man 20968]

Has there been anything in the show to indicate that Kerry is possibly pregnant? I'm rarely 100% looking at the TV anymore, it's easy for me to miss something like that.

I *did* think that surely it would come back around in some way that what the kids said to Kerry was making her see the nature of her relationship with Logan, and was trying to make sense of it with his death almost immediately after that. And it occurs to me that... is there a single person in Logan's circle who he didn't fuck over, insult, intimidate, etc in the days leading up to his death? He told the kids they weren't serious people, he had Kerry yanked, he fired Gerri, he brought Roman back in and then immediately made him kill his girlfriend/mother, he was pushing Cyd out and Tom aside, I don't know that Frank/Karl/Karolina even rate but they did just witness him take Gerri out back and shoot her over nothing and they are at best equivalent to her. Frank and Karl moreso than Karolina and whatever his name who was laughing at Kerry's shitty tape.

I mean, I guess being that way to people near him is his permanent state, but he really went on a tear leading right up to his death.

Who was it that he had dinner with and was saying "you're my best pal"? His bodyguard? I think I never quite got that scene, if he was losing it a little bit or fucking with the guy or stating a plain fact that this fairly trivial person was in some ways his closest friend? Maybe it was just reflecting his own realization of how alone he is without even his kids around trying to pick his bones?

[HamsterHookah 112]

7 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Has there been anything in the show to indicate that Kerry is possibly pregnant? I'm rarely 100% looking at the TV anymore, it's easy for me to miss something like that.

I *did* think that surely it would come back around in some way that what the kids said to Kerry was making her see the nature of her relationship with Logan, and was trying to make sense of it with his death almost immediately after that. And it occurs to me that... is there a single person in Logan's circle who he didn't fuck over, insult, intimidate, etc in the days leading up to his death? He told the kids they weren't serious people, he had Kerry yanked, he fired Gerri, he brought Roman back in and then immediately made him kill his girlfriend/mother, he was pushing Cyd out and Tom aside, I don't know that Frank/Karl/Karolina even rate but they did just witness him take Gerri out back and shoot her over nothing and they are at best equivalent to her. Frank and Karl moreso than Karolina and whatever his name who was laughing at Kerry's shitty tape.

I mean, I guess being that way to people near him is his permanent state, but he really went on a tear leading right up to his death.

Who was it that he had dinner with and was saying "you're my best pal"? His bodyguard? I think I never quite got that scene, if he was losing it a little bit or fucking with the guy or stating a plain fact that this fairly trivial person was in some ways his closest friend? Maybe it was just reflecting his own realization of how alone he is without even his kids around trying to pick his bones?

Wasn't there a scene last season where Connor told the other siblings that Kerry is using some homeopathic recipe and food recipes for Logan to get his semen count up and they all assumed it was to have a baby? I could be off on the details, but that is what I generally remember.

Edit to add at the 38 second mark: 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[hornian 5219]

5 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

When Logan was trying to make amends with his kids, he talked right over a bunch of topics and offhandedly said something about the family trust but glossed over it and kept talking. That surely wasn't put in the script without purpose.

I would think the trust holds the ownership of the company.  Maybe he completely cut them out of the trust and during that scene he was alluding that he needed to go back and fix it for the benefit of the kids.

 

That was a comment about renegotiating the terms of the trust, which was set up during his divorce from the 3 younger kids' mom, during their mom's wedding last season. It was the entire climax of season 3. So no, it wasn't put in the script without a purpose. It was put in the script to reference that pretty major event that lead to the kids being united against him. And how he tried to dismiss it with a lame apology. 

[Augustus 3061]

3 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Who was it that he had dinner with and was saying "you're my best pal"? His bodyguard? I think I never quite got that scene, if he was losing it a little bit or fucking with the guy or stating a plain fact that this fairly trivial person was in some ways his closest friend? Maybe it was just reflecting his own realization of how alone he is without even his kids around trying to pick his bones?

He was contemplating the nature of life, humanity and death.  Which wound up being a foreshadow.

[HamsterHookah 112]

1 hour ago, Augustus said:

He was contemplating the nature of life, humanity and death.  Which wound up being a foreshadow.

And yes, that was Colin his "fixer", his bodyguard, etc. the one who got Kendall out of the mess with killing the drug partner in the car.

[Wade 464]

41 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

And yes, that was Colin his "fixer", his bodyguard, etc. the one who got Kendall out of the mess with killing the drug partner in the car.

Colin was the one person in his life who wasn't always angling to get something from Roy. That's why he considered him his best friend, imo.  But it also shows the quality of Roy's relationships when his fixer is his best "friend".

[YGIFS 19452]

I think Colin appeared doubly lost in the wake of the news because his employer/friend/mentor was dead and also he probably had a slight inkling of "great, so nobody around here appreciates that time I hid a dead body in another country.  This is why I can't have nice things!"  

[SizzleChest 8284]

 

[CooterBrown 18015]

I think Colin appeared doubly lost in the wake of the news because his employer/friend/mentor was dead and also he probably had a slight inkling of "great, so nobody around here appreciates that time I hid a dead body in another country.  This is why I can't have nice things!"  

Kendall has a strong incentive to keep Colin in the payroll with a hefty pay raise.

[Buzzrock 14922]

I just started this show and it freaks me out how much Tom looks like a cross between Brendan Fraser and Peyton Manning.

It’s an unusual show. It’s like a parody, or an alternate reality Arrested Development. I keep expecting someone to look at the shaky cam.

[Augustus 3061]

53 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

I just started this show and it freaks me out how much Tom looks like a cross between Brendan Fraser and Peyton Manning.

It’s an unusual show. It’s like a parody, or an alternate reality Arrested Development. I keep expecting someone to look at the shaky cam.

 

I wish it were closer to parody than it is to real life.

[MirrOlure 14790]

Hard to predict how it all shakes out with the siblings but clearly they’re going to fight it out amongst themselves, to our enjoyment. Tom is in a vulnerable position and he clearly knows and feels that.
But one safe bet IMO, is that Greg is going to get completely railroaded and thrown to the wolves going forward, after starting the season with a kind of confidence and esteem that he’s been building up to through the series so far.

My money is on Greg

[Augustus 3061]

I'll ask again:  Does anyone know what's in the files Tom instructed Greg to delete?

[Wade 464]

2 hours ago, Augustus said:

I'll ask again:  Does anyone know what's in the files Tom instructed Greg to delete?

Not sure, but I think they were files about the plan to fire Cyd.  It was Logan's directive, and I think Tom knows he's fucked running ATN without her.

[Pig Bellmont 8719]

23 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Can't happen. She's pregnant with Logan's baby.

That would be an awful story line. No thanks 

[oSuJeff97 3435]

8 hours ago, Augustus said:

I'll ask again:  Does anyone know what's in the files Tom instructed Greg to delete?

Yeah I don’t think we’re specifically supposed to know at this point.

But I think it’s almost certain that Greg will keep some copies for himself before deleting…

Given Tom’s now exposed position with the kids, I’d say it’s likely something that would put him in a bad (or worse) spot with them.

[Buzzrock 14922]

10 hours ago, Augustus said:

 

I wish it were closer to parody than it is to real life.

You lead a weird life. 

[Augustus 3061]

5 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

You lead a weird life. 

 

Let's see:  A group of terribly insecure and therefore greedy, selfish, self-centered, self-seeking, manipulative and dishonest people with failed relationships and family members with a history of mental illness and abuse, set in a corporate world where avarice and greed and backstabbing run amock.

That sounds otherworldly to you?

Edited April 12, 2023 by Augustus

[The Ace of Aces 5192]

22 hours ago, Augustus said:

I'll ask again:  Does anyone know what's in the files Tom instructed Greg to delete?

Plan for ousting Cyd. 
 

The phone call scene apparently was a one shot 23 minute affair with multiple cameras. Wow. 

[bolverk 29689]

I'd guess Gerri's got something up her sleeve. She was shown a couple of times on the phone in the background (e.g., on the boat deck) while the kids were inside. They kept wondering how the news got out -- I'm betting it was her. She certainly has plenty of motive to screw Roman over at least.

[Upgrayedd 5814]

8 hours ago, Augustus said:

 

Let's see:  A group of terribly insecure and therefore greedy, selfish, self-centered, self-seeking, manipulative and dishonest people with failed relationships and family members with a history of mental illness and abuse, set in a corporate world where avarice and greed and backstabbing run amock.

That sounds otherworldly to you?

See you at the family BBQ

[Party_Taco 3742]

I'd guess Gerri's got something up her sleeve. She was shown a couple of times on the phone in the background (e.g., on the boat deck) while the kids were inside. They kept wondering how the news got out -- I'm betting it was her. She certainly has plenty of motive to screw Roman over at least.

Lot of possibilities there, but let’s not forget the prematurely cut off scene with Greg and some rando immediately after he concluded the call with his disgusting counterpart.

In this scenario, the leak possibilities are endless… could have been the damn flight crew as they were pumping on the old man’s chest…

[hornian 5219]

22 hours ago, bolverk said:

I'd guess Gerri's got something up her sleeve. She was shown a couple of times on the phone in the background (e.g., on the boat deck) while the kids were inside. They kept wondering how the news got out -- I'm betting it was her. She certainly has plenty of motive to screw Roman over at least.

Pretty sure Greg talking to a reporter when he got the news and then overreactting when she asked if he knew if Logan was going to make it was the leak. 

[billfromlaketravis 11517]

I’m rooting one of the Disgusting Bros to make it. It feels like Tom is screwed, but Greg, in typical Succession satire fashion is just incompetent enough to be CEO. They’ve spent a lot time on his rise through the seasons. James Cromwell crawling out of the woodwork, and pushing Greg for his own interests would be plausible. Cromwell is also the last of the UK prestige actors in a very across the pond writing room. 
 

Would Greg be any worse than Logan, Roman, or Shiv? Probably not.