Succession -- HBO

[wild_turkey 3083]

The Greg pouring La Croix scene was greatness.

[Party_Taco 3660]

So… I must have interpreted the Shiv call differently, because what I heard was not a VM message but rather a “this number is no longer in service”, reinforcing that she never intended to speak with her ex.

I found it strange thereafter that, with the camera on him the entire time, Kendal didn’t utter a word while on the phone…

Did he too receive the out of service message? I suppose that would make sense as a “his number isn’t working so Shiv is full of shit” but probably could have been handled more deftly in that case.

[billfromlaketravis 11291]

4 hours ago, Party_Taco said:

So… I must have interpreted the Shiv call differently, because what I heard was not a VM message but rather a “this number is no longer in service”, reinforcing that she never intended to speak with her ex.

I found it strange thereafter that, with the camera on him the entire time, Kendal didn’t utter a word while on the phone…

Did he too receive the out of service message? I suppose that would make sense as a “his number isn’t working so Shiv is full of shit” but probably could have been handled more deftly in that case.

Yeah that’s how I took it. Kendal calls Nate, number no longer works, Kendal realizes Nate is no longer accepting their calls/won’t play ball, and Shiv is full of shit. 

[HamsterHookah 112]

Greg! Are you faking doing coke? Greg!

[BHMCruiser 1806]

Shiv picked the wrong day to totally alienate Tom when she needed to be able to manipulate him to get what she wanted. He was great. "I'm sorry, how should I be framing my face?" And his reaction to her being pregnant? Amazing! 

[TOR 5209]

Really thought that bodega sushi was going to make another appearance in the plot.  I'm now Team Cousin Greg.

 

[Jerry Callo 8631]

10 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Yeah that’s how I took it. Kendal calls Nate, number no longer works, Kendal realizes Nate is no longer accepting their calls/won’t play ball, and Shiv is full of shit. 

I think Shiv made a call to a bullshit number and then Kendall called Nate and learned that Shiv never talked to him.  Kendall was too pissed to have just gotten a "no longer in service" recording.  He would have asked her if she called Nate on a different number.  Kendall's reaction was from learning, point blank, that Shiv had flat out lied.

[A-Tex Devil 2418]

4 minutes ago, Jerry Callo said:

I think Shiv made a call to a bullshit number and then Kendall called Nate and learned that Shiv never talked to him.  Kendall was too pissed to have just gotten a "no longer in service" recording.  He would have asked her if she called Nate on a different number.  Kendall's reaction was from learning, point blank, that Shiv had flat out lied.

This.  Not that complicated.  Shiv faked the call to Nate because she could convince Ken to not let ATN call it for Mencken and still have Gojo deal go through after because what are Ken and Roman going to do at that point?   She got greedy.  Ken called, off camera Nate said he never talked to her. Ken is rightfully pissed.  The end. 
 

If she really cared about “the republic” as much as she lets on she would have bit the bullet and gotten Nate and Jiminez to cut a deal even though it kills the Gojo deal. 

[TexEx15 17325]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/781888229969217?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&mibextid=0NULKw
 

Tom was right!

[Party_Taco 3660]

I think Shiv made a call to a bullshit number and then Kendall called Nate and learned that Shiv never talked to him.  Kendall was too pissed to have just gotten a "no longer in service" recording.  He would have asked her if she called Nate on a different number.  Kendall's reaction was from learning, point blank, that Shiv had flat out lied.

Except that, again, Kendal never utters a word while on the phone with Nate and we track his movements the entire time.

The net result is the same, and I can see your path as well, sans that particular detail.

[wild_turkey 3083]

Pardon my ignorance on this part, but how much did it really matter that ATN called Wisconsin prematurely?

If Fox News called Georgia or Arizona early in 2020, or even declared Trump the president, that would not have changed the actual outcome. It would only create divisiveness, which did happen. The result would still be the result.

Was this intended to show that the Roy children, or possibly mass media in general, overestimate their influence in politics? They have enough narcissism to believe that a decision by Roman and Kendall would determine the next president?

[Party_Taco 3660]

I think it’s more that the premature call forced their hand once another state was decided in Mankin’s favor. They could have held out, I suppose, to see if others counterbalanced and they could call that state another way, but that would have undercut their desired result anyway…

[wild_turkey 3083]

That part made sense, but Roman was talking as if ATN's call on the election would finalize the result and hand Mankin the presidency. And Shiv was basically saying the same thing, but from the opposite side of the political aisle. 

[Frank The Tank 1438]

2 hours ago, Party_Taco said:

Except that, again, Kendal never utters a word while on the phone with Nate and we track his movements the entire time.

 

That’s simply not true though. The camera shows him start the call and then cuts to Shiv and Roman in the conference room. It then cuts back to him several seconds later as he looks into the conference room with the phone to his ear. 

[skittlebrau 474]

4 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

Pardon my ignorance on this part, but how much did it really matter that ATN called Wisconsin prematurely?

If Fox News called Georgia or Arizona early in 2020, or even declared Trump the president, that would not have changed the actual outcome. It would only create divisiveness, which did happen. The result would still be the result.

Was this intended to show that the Roy children, or possibly mass media in general, overestimate their influence in politics? They have enough narcissism to believe that a decision by Roman and Kendall would determine the next president?

I don’t think we know this answer until next week and that anyone who assumes something else hasn’t really been watching the show. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by skittlebrau

[henrygandorf 28873]

5 hours ago, Party_Taco said:

I think it’s more that the premature call forced their hand once another state was decided in Mankin’s favor. They could have held out, I suppose, to see if others counterbalanced and they could call that state another way, but that would have undercut their desired result anyway…

they all thought/hoped the election wouldn’t hinge on wisc. it was more about giving mencken what he wanted from them at the time.

and yes, kendall spoke to nate and found out quickly that shiv was being a duplicitous dipshit. again. it wasn’t twisty or confusing. 

[mchookem 15568]

no love for Connor's concession speech? 

"you're going to have to find some other poor mook's paps to suck on" 😄

i don't even know what he meant but it was awesome watching his siblings all react with some version of

 

 

 

[tx ind 6904]

On 5/15/2023 at 2:12 PM, Chewbacca said:

If there's one thing Greg knows is how to keep sensitive info to blackmail people with it later.

You store it, you hoard it, you save it for a special occasion, and then you smash someone's fucking face in with it.

[Buzzrock 14785]

“It’s only a hint of lemon!”

Fucking great episode. Wasabi scene was hilarious and the rest was great, packed with great dialogue as ever. For those feeling triggered by it, keep in mind it’s a satire/comedy and has been reflecting back real life for four seasons. There is no altruism, even Shiv. Being anti-Mencken is convenient for her, nothing else. This show is about power and what a bunch of fucking weirdos the power-hungry are. Nothing else matters to them, not money, not family, and not the country.

[Red Five 40449]

If I had 10% of Connor's money I'd disappear with that smoke show wife and none of those insane people would ever see me again.

[YGIFS 19445]

^

As would I.  But as the 3 others crave power and validation from Dad, Connor's itch that needs to be scratched is he wants to be viewed as intellectual and complex.  

Finally got around to watching this one and wow...the commentary on how, in the quest to seem & feel controlling of American politics, spoiled and insane ineptitudes can accidentally fuck up a Republic was about as subtle as malaria with no toilet access. 

This is it.  There is no arc.  I like that.  Everything this season since Logan's death to this is just parody.  There's no arc, no redemption, no sunset.  Here's a fucked up family working their shit out on one another, and America suffers as a result.  Roll ATN credits.   

[Saint Tacky 1609]

On 5/15/2023 at 7:35 PM, Party_Taco said:

I found it strange thereafter that, with the camera on him the entire time, Kendal didn’t utter a word while on the phone…

Sorry if already asked and answered, but what did Kendall send Greg off to do right after he hung up?

[CooterBrown 17760]

56 minutes ago, Saint Tacky said:

Sorry if already asked and answered, but what did Kendall send Greg off to do right after he hung up?

Isn't that when Greg went to the floor to give Tom the order to call the election?

 

[Celery Man 20607]

you're busted down to greg

[speed817 18926]

I'm starting to worry about Mondale.  He was nowhere to be found at the Tailgate party.  Doesn't look like anybody has taken him for a walk throughout the series.  Someone needs to call PETA....

[TriStone 1724]

Can someone remind me why Connor isn't involved in the business like the other kids?  It can't just be because he has a different mother.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by TriStone

[Bartles 769]

I think it is that simple. Connor lived with his mother who had a mental breakdown and was institutionalized. He was never close to Logan and is pretty much seen as the dim bulb by the whole family.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

9 minutes ago, TriStone said:

Can someone remind me why Connor isn't involved in the business like the other kids?  It can't just be because he has a different mother.

 

 

I don't know if they've ever directly addressed it, but I think this actually is the reason.

Thinking about the timeline of the show... Kendall just turned 40, and assume Shiv and Roman are supposed to be a few years younger, which means that Logan was initially with their mother at least 40 years ago, if not a few years prior; so that would probably have put Conner in his late teens or early 20s (at the oldest) when Logan and his mother split up... (assuming that Conner is supposed to be in his early 60s in the show...Alan Ruck is 66 IRL).

We know that Logan was with Kendall/Roman/Shiv's mother until Shiv was 14 (?)...(it was mentioned last season, can't recall exactly)... so Logan was likely completely focused on his "new" family essentially for the entirety of Conner's 20s and maybe into his early 30s. 

So the likely situation is that Logan basically sent him and his mother on their merry way with a big payoff and either Conner never had any interest in joining the business or Logan had no interest in "inviting him" since he was focused on his "new" family at the point in Conner's life when he would have otherwise joined the business.

 

20 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

Pardon my ignorance on this part, but how much did it really matter that ATN called Wisconsin prematurely?

If Fox News called Georgia or Arizona early in 2020, or even declared Trump the president, that would not have changed the actual outcome. It would only create divisiveness, which did happen. The result would still be the result.

Was this intended to show that the Roy children, or possibly mass media in general, overestimate their influence in politics? They have enough narcissism to believe that a decision by Roman and Kendall would determine the next president?

I think the idea was that, knowing Menkan's fascist tendencies, he would basically declare himself the winner as soon as a reputable network declared the win, which is exactly what he did. Does that mean he DID win or was the TRUE winner? Indeterminate. But being the good fascist, he was certainly going to declare himself the winner and imperil democracy, as Shiv predicted he would.  

And I think the point was to show that, YES, just a few people sitting in a room making calls CAN "decide" these things.

[Bama Chick 28595]

Connor was a kid when his mom was committed - “looney cake” and all that.

The character is in his 50s not 60s.

If I remember correctly, he only spent the summers with Logan.

He’s the “first pancake” - the one you throw out.

[Stringer 1423]

I haven’t been able to peg Connor’s age on the show. Obviously Ruck is a good amount older in real life. The intro of the show, though, has the four siblings but the oldest doesn’t look but a couple of years older than the second oldest kid. Maybe I’m putting too much weight on the intro or they weren’t thinking about it that closely.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

16 hours ago, Stringer said:

I haven’t been able to peg Connor’s age on the show. Obviously Ruck is a good amount older in real life. The intro of the show, though, has the four siblings but the oldest doesn’t look but a couple of years older than the second oldest kid. Maybe I’m putting too much weight on the intro or they weren’t thinking about it that closely.

Yeah I think it's the latter.

The opening credits are supposed to give you a "vibe" but really represent the real characters.

I get that that TV shows bend ages of actors to suit roles, but it sure seems like, in the world of the show, Conner would have to be *at least* 15 years older than Kendall. Honestly I think 55 is a stretch for Alan Ruck, but you could say living out in Santa Fe or wherever in the desert aged him like Obi-Wan, lol. 

[henrygandorf 28873]

how old was logan supposed to be when he died?  80?  early 80's?  that would put conner in his late 50's most likely.  i know in real life cox and ruck are only 10 years apart.

19 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

He’s the “first pancake” - the one you throw out.

this is a great expression.  hadn't heard it in a while.

[TOR 5209]

 

2 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Yeah I think it's the latter.

The opening credits are supposed to give you a "vibe" but really represent the real characters.

I get that that TV shows bend ages of actors to suit roles, but it sure seems like, in the world of the show, Conner would have to be *at least* 15 years older than Kendall. Honestly I think 55 is a stretch for Alan Ruck, but you could say living out in Santa Fe or wherever in the desert aged him like Obi-Wan, lol. 

Ruck said in an interview he is ten years older than his character, and only ten years younger than Cox IRL, and he is 68.  So Connor is somewhere mid to late 50s probably, yeah?  

23 hours ago, speed817 said:

I'm starting to worry about Mondale.  He was nowhere to be found at the Tailgate party.  Doesn't look like anybody has taken him for a walk throughout the series.  Someone needs to call PETA....

It was established pretty early on neither Tom nor Shiv actually walk Mondale, the help does that.  They only greet him in his pen when they get home from ruling the world.

Edited May 18, 2023 by TOR
mondalE

[Celery Man 20607]

20 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

I think the idea was that, knowing Menkan's fascist tendencies, he would basically declare himself the winner as soon as a reputable network declared the win, which is exactly what he did. Does that mean he DID win or was the TRUE winner? Indeterminate. But being the good fascist, he was certainly going to declare himself the winner and imperil democracy, as Shiv predicted he would.  

And I think the point was to show that, YES, just a few people sitting in a room making calls CAN "decide" these things.

exactly this (omg willing suspension of disbelief) with a sprinkle of... it is a true unknown what legally can be done with a bunch of burnt up votes in Milwaukee, and will the other news outlets want to be the channels who haven't picked a winner, and is it possible that any of the black robed wizards who will eventually decide the actual outcome happily drink the ATN poison every single day? 

honestly that idea of burning an urban precinct to the fucking ground in a swing state is scary

[skittlebrau 474]

Didn't I read that they shot all this in December? Interesting to think about the crew not knowing Jan 6 was going to happen when this episode was produced.

[HamsterHookah 112]

6 minutes ago, skittlebrau said:

Didn't I read that they shot all this in December? Interesting to think about the crew not knowing Jan 6 was going to happen when this episode was produced.

You think this was shot in December of 2020?

Edited May 18, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[skittlebrau 474]

1 minute ago, HamsterHookah said:

You think this was shot in December of 2020?

No. I'm just an idiot.

[Red Five 40449]

Think I read the opposite. The entire season takes place over a week or so but it was shot over a few months. 

[TOR 5209]

1 hour ago, Red Five said:

Think I read the opposite. The entire season takes place over a week or so but it was shot over a few months. 

Hope they have Logan on ice or in a deep freeze, the trip to Norway put a kibosh on the funeral.  That is supposed to be the penultimate episode before Tom and Cousin Greg take over  right?

[billfromlaketravis 11291]

Cousin Greg riding the bike must become the new struggle bus gif. Omg. I’m dead. 

[Celery Man 20607]

Lol not reading anything but Greg just inquired about front-right and I hope we get a lopsided pallbearer situation. Fucking Greg on the city bike.

[The Ace of Aces 5054]

Mattson didn’t promise Shiv the CEO gig. He very well can name Greg that and the siblings are then SOL without any real control of Waystar. 

[SizzleChest 8244]

9 minutes ago, The Ace of Aces said:

Mattson didn’t promise Shiv the CEO gig. He very well can name Greg that and the siblings are then SOL without any real control of Waystar. 

Or Tom.  Either would be a drop the needle moment.

[wild_turkey 3083]

Mattson didn’t promise Shiv the CEO gig. He very well can name Greg that and the siblings are then SOL without any real control of Waystar. 

I half expect Mattson to name Greg as CEO in title only, especially after they went out drinking together and he knows Greg is someone he can control.

[Lazarus Bocanegra 303]

that was some quality TV.  I think Kerry won the episode

[Reynolds Woodcock 4631]

This series seriously fucks

[Celery Man 20607]

Shiv getting off the phone with Mattson

[Minute Bull 243]

Don’t want this brilliant show to end. So many spin off opportunities here, Max please make it happen.

 

[APMP 684]

I think this thing is gonna end with none of the three main siblings winning.

This show has consultants, and unless the stock has really rocketed, under Delaware law I don't see how the board can say no to the per share premium in Mattson's offer. Even if the Board knew a lot of employees would be fired and it would decimate communities, it is supposed to be guided solely by what's in the best interest of the shareholders, disregarding effects on the employees/stakeholders.

I could see Mattson winning and leaving all of the siblings hanging as to who he'll pick to "run" US operations. Or maybe he just strips Waystar for parts. Or hell, maybe he'll just name Connor his US guy in a total curveball.

[henrygandorf 28873]

i think we’re supposed to think it was a head fake to shiv but will go to kendall based on his speech and roman fucking it. so it’s prob not that. after all this it would be funnier if mattson pulled out entirely.