Succession -- HBO

[tx ind 7057]

On 5/15/2023 at 12:29 PM, billfromlaketravis said:

So Roman has juice again. I’m sure that’ll end next week when he bungles the eulogy.  

winner!

[Buzzrock 15136]

Rome with some actual humanity.

Even the hearses in this show are baller.

[hornian 5293]

6 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

i think we’re supposed to think it was a head fake to shiv but will go to kendall based on his speech and roman fucking it. so it’s prob not that. after all this it would be funnier if mattson pulled out entirely. 

It’s gonna be Tom. Calling it. 

[Reynolds Woodcock 5097]

I think the season ends with Prez elect siding with the Swede, the Swede brushing off Shiv, and the Board telling the kids to fuck off, implying: (1) Ken ends with a completely broken family and unable to grasp his birthright just when he finally realized how to be a reasonable cosplay of his father; (2) Shiv ends with no business propositions and a marriage destined to fail (though probably off screen in the future), doomed to repeat the maternal failings of her own mother; and (3) Roman ends as a broken shell of a little man.

In other words, obscenely wealthy but fundamentally broken people, the perfect metaphor for a late-stage capitalist society that Jesse Armstrong wants to drive home to the viewership. 

[Celery Man 21095]

Kendall is making bold moves and looking kinda strong, so he should collapse into a pile of wet noodles next week if the pattern holds. Or he does break the pattern and become his dad, but then... exiles Rava and locks his kids outside his office door repeating the bigger cycle?

The pinnacle of "show makes me empathize and care for an objectively horrible person" is The Wire with guys like Wee Bey and Chris Partlow but... man Roman this week. From his speech prep all through retreating to the limo. And retreating from the party. I'm not afraid to admit that I've fucked it a few times - a job interview, one time a presentation when I was underprepared and wound up with the wrong deck. Fuuuuck that moment of "oh shit oh shit oh shit it's going sideways and everyone knows this is terrible but I can't just end it", and the misery of still having to be around in front of all of the people you just had the horribly embarrassing moment in front of. I just need some water lol. Great acting from Culkin - maybe I'm just transferring some early miserable core career memories on to his performance but you could read all of his internal journey in his performance. From "my dick is 11 feet long" all the way to right back in the dog cage. Can't even be in the same room with his dad's cold meat without becoming who he's always been around him.

[Red Five 41736]

As someone who is horrified by public speaking, I didn't care much for that episode. 

[YGIFS 19458]

Yeah, when my father died unexpectedly---my older brother, his brother, his sisters, and his parents, all looked at me without hesitation and said I was giving the eulogy.  And I ran through it like Roman did that same day.  And I completely broke down up there despite our often cold relationship.  I eventually got through it but I was mumbling and stammering and bawling.  At least Roman got a fancy water out of it   

the mistresses sitting with the former wives was a nice touch.  I think the 3 kids' mom is an even shittier parent than Logan was.  

Poor fucking Greg.  One night you're doing whiteboard bumps with the man deciding the next POTUS, the next morning...you're being shunned by your own blood at the patriarch's funeral.  

[Chuckie Finster 23058]

On 5/15/2023 at 9:28 AM, Chuckie Finster said:

Actually, they showed him practicing alone in a dressing room in front of a mirror.  I think it's more likely he shits the bed when the bright lights are on him.

[AbeFroman 3113]

Goddam I could watch ten more seasons of this show.  

[Grade of D as in David 13255]

29 minutes ago, AbeFroman said:

Goddam I could watch ten more seasons of this show.  

Shiv would be 300lbs by then, no thanks.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Sarah Snook is actually pregnant and she’s nowhere near being fat.

Predictions-

-Menken will actually lose - he was pulled away from the kids by an aide who said “Ohio”. Jimenez wins and now everything is chaos.

-Mattson does something publicly insane.

-The board vote is a bloody knife fight and they reject the deal.

-Kendall’s Army goes to work.

-Hugo plants some nasty stuff about Shiv and Roman. The Gerri stuff. Shiv’s pregnancy and her marriage.

-Colin puts his skills to work on Ken’s behalf. He gathers the evidence of the ATN shenanigans on Election Night and all the blame falls on Roman and Tom.

-Greg is Kendall’s new Ratfucker Sam. He has Greg fire Tom.

-Roman and Shiv are finished at Waystar - their relationship with Ken is irrevocably broken.

-Rava gets an emergency restraining order and Ken loses all contact with his kids.

-Kendall is the new CEO but he has now become Logan and is left alone.

[Celery Man 21095]

+rep for Greg firing Tom. Et tu Greggie? The Greggie becomes the Tom?

[Prepuce of Doom 21285]

26 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Sarah Snook is actually pregnant and she’s nowhere near being fat

-Colin puts his skills to work on Ken’s behalf. He gathers the evidence of the ATN shenanigans on Election Night and all the blame falls on Roman and Tom.
 

Very solid post, but I disagree with elements of these two points. 

Shiv's weird fat non-eyelids are decidedly fat. Probably a dozen standard deviations beyond the mean of upper eyelid weight and volume. 

And I got the vibe that Colin was repulsed by the idea of being Ken's fixer, and will not be a faithful servant to him like he was for Logan. 

[HamsterHookah 112]

On 5/15/2023 at 9:19 AM, HamsterHookah said:

 

My bet is Roman being the unlikely heir apparent and winner of the succession of thrones. We see his turn this season, he's firing people, he's getting a taste of pure power, and this week he was the most focused and clear on execution (and correct, in pursuit and to keep power).

The teaser next week shows him breaking out of the shell as the showman and charismatic face.

My bet is Roman is the Michael Corleone of the Roy family and we will see an ending that solidifies Roman's turn to baby Logan and the last episode will leave us with the assurance that the cutthroat empire is in good hands.

[YGIFS 19458]

Beyond the mean of upper eyelid weight and volume?  Are you a chatGPT? 
 

agreed on Colin though.  He knew all the horrible shit Logan did but knew Logan created that whole world on his own with his own vision. That helped Colin justify his service to himself and his family.  Kendal wants to do the same shit just because of his DNA and birth order.  Colin don’t roll like that.  
 

also, In an episode with so many great deliveries…….Cromwell didn’t go big and he fucking nailed it.  He’s such an underappreciated character actor.  
 

the shitty mom being the only one to recognize that Shiv was with child was  so subtly perfect given their history.  
 

what the fuck with the way the camera shoots the Nordic people?  

[Prepuce of Doom 21285]

I found the camera to be extremely jerky and unstable throughout the episode. I'm not normally bothered by that, but at times in this episode, it felt like Blair Witch shaky camcorder shit. 

[sidis 10016]

49 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

-Menken will actually lose - he was pulled away from the kids by an aide who said “Ohio”. Jimenez wins and now everything is chaos.

i heard that too but isn't the pivot state at issue wisconsin?

[YGIFS 19458]

Yeah, it started out annoying as fuck.  But it eventually stabilizes around the burial and reception.  I took to be a heavy handed reminder of how emotional funerals can be but how some stability and peace comes with burying them finally.  And then the kids attempt to collect themselves and get back to business.  
but it’s the way mattson hunches over and the camera ‘peers’ over his shoulder every episode.  Annoying as shit.  
 

On a show of annoying people, his bearded Scandinavian sidekick is very punchable.  He thinks he’s the techie version of the red bearded Wildling in Game of Thrones.  But he’s a glorified Kerry at best

[Celery Man 21095]

8 minutes ago, sidis said:

i heard that too but isn't the pivot state at issue wisconsin?

i don't recall any of the maps from previous episodes but could be that late reporting urban Ohio precincts make Wis irrelevant. Stretches the willing suspension of disbelief though given that it is Ohio.

[henrygandorf 29225]

3 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Kendall is making bold moves and looking kinda strong, so he should collapse into a pile of wet noodles next week if the pattern holds. Or he does break the pattern and become his dad, but then... exiles Rava and locks his kids outside his office door repeating the bigger cycle?

The pinnacle of "show makes me empathize and care for an objectively horrible person" is The Wire with guys like Wee Bey and Chris Partlow but... man Roman this week. From his speech prep all through retreating to the limo. And retreating from the party. I'm not afraid to admit that I've fucked it a few times - a job interview, one time a presentation when I was underprepared and wound up with the wrong deck. Fuuuuck that moment of "oh shit oh shit oh shit it's going sideways and everyone knows this is terrible but I can't just end it", and the misery of still having to be around in front of all of the people you just had the horribly embarrassing moment in front of. I just need some water lol. Great acting from Culkin - maybe I'm just transferring some early miserable core career memories on to his performance but you could read all of his internal journey in his performance. From "my dick is 11 feet long" all the way to right back in the dog cage. Can't even be in the same room with his dad's cold meat without becoming who he's always been around him.

good post.  i think roman's day resonated with a lot of people who have had rough public big days professionally, or potentially at a funeral when emotions get the best of you.  like lobo mentioned below, when it comes to funerals, death in general, grieving, and pre-grieving (in roman's case), you don't get to decide when it hits you.  it comes when it comes.  you can be strong for 9 people and the 10th one coughs funny and oh shit here it is.

i think what we saw was classic roman, who has shown to be a great actor when he wants to be.  roman roy, not culkin, who killed it last night.  roman tried to project who he was going to be through the negotiations last season, the back-and-forth with logan earlier this season, trying to play both sides a bit, teaming up with kendall in the big mattson mountain scene, and then all the tough-guy "pre-grieving" that got him up to the funeral. 

nothing he did was terrible or embarrassing, unless you do it in front of that crowd in what he saw essentially as a job interview with both mencken and mattson in attendance, not to mention the board.  this wasn't like kendall talking about living+ to shareholders and company men.  this was grief finally catching up to him and overwhelming him at exactly the wrong time for who he was trying to be.  which showed what we thought all along, he's not the guy.  and that's ok.  there are worse things to be than "not-logan".

but yeah, he fucked it, then spiraled, then got trampled.  both metaphorically and literally.

[Bozo_Casanova 26847]

13 hours ago, Lazarus Bocanegra said:

that was some quality TV.  I think Kerry won the episode

I thought that was one of the the greatest moments of the show - At first when she grabbed Kerri and started to take her up front I thought it was just Lady Caroline trying to punch down at Marcia when she could - instead, in all her brutal honesty, she collects "her own Kerri," introduces her to Marcia, and brings them all, together, to the front pew they were implicitly all promised. And in return, Marcia not only shares pride of place, but demonstrates real compassion for Kerri, who in some sense lost more than any of the others.

[Bozo_Casanova 26847]

13 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i think roman's day resonated with a lot of people who have had rough public big days professionally, or potentially at a funeral when emotions get the best of you.  like lobo mentioned below, when it comes to funerals, death in general, grieving, and pre-grieving (in roman's case), you don't get to decide when it hits you.  it comes when it comes.  you can be strong for 9 people and the 10th one coughs funny and oh shit here it is.

 

What happened to Roman happened to me personally. I do a lot of public speaking and I'm good at it btoh with prepared material and off the cuff. I gave a very, very good eulogy for my mother when she died young at 55. When my grandmother passed 10 years later my cousin, aunt and priest all asked me to do something similar. I walked up, ready to go, looked out into the crowd, realized at that moment that Mimi was ACTUALLY DEAD and not alive anymore and completely fell part. I mean, I even got my cousin to come up there and everything. Brutal. I let my grandmother down and I'll always feel that way even though that's not what she would want. Grief is a funny thing. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[Horn80 6358]

Prediction-

Mattson wins and he hires Greg to fire all the Roy’s and their staff and is the sole winner.
 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Very solid post, but I disagree with elements of these two points. 
Shiv's weird fat non-eyelids are decidedly fat. Probably a dozen standard deviations beyond the mean of upper eyelid weight and volume. 
And I got the vibe that Colin was repulsed by the idea of being Ken's fixer, and will not be a faithful servant to him like he was for Logan. 

Nah - rewatch Colin’s face after Ken leaves.

That’s a “Your old man would be doing exactly the same thing” smirk of approval.

And how animated his voice got when Ken “jokingly” asked why’s a man like Colin wasting his time like sensitive boy talking about feelings instead of being a man of action?

Logan saw Colin as his “best pal” - no indication Colin felt the same.

He’s a military man - but his squad The Roy Empire.

The king is dead, long live the king.

Colin has his new king and his new mission.

[billfromlaketravis 11819]

I thought Ewan’s eulogy was one of the best I’ve ever seen. Brutally honest while being infinitely fair. Hard to do. Cromwell is a master actor and he finally had his big moment. 
 

Rupert Murdoch’s reaction video to the Succession eulogy would get more viewers than the Super Bowl. 

[Wade 464]

18 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Nah - rewatch Colin’s face after Ken leaves.

That’s a “Your old man would be doing exactly the same thing” smirk of approval.

And how animated his voice got when Ken “jokingly” asked why’s a man like Colin wasting his time like sensitive boy talking about feelings instead of being a man of action?

Logan saw Colin as his “best pal” - no indication Colin felt the same.

He’s a military man - but his squad The Roy Empire.

The king is dead, long live the king.

Colin has his new king and his new mission.

You didn't address Shiv's fat eyelids

[TonyTexas 10764]

It’s interesting that there has been no mention of Logan’s will. Is it possible that there are things in there that determines the end game? It would be fitting that Logan’s control extends beyond the grave. A scene where everyone in the estate attorney’s office for the reading gets fucked would be amazing. 

[A-Tex Devil 2499]

2 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Sarah Snook is actually pregnant and she’s nowhere near being fat.

Predictions-

-Menken will actually lose - he was pulled away from the kids by an aide who said “Ohio”. Jimenez wins and now everything is chaos.

-Mattson does something publicly insane.

-The board vote is a bloody knife fight and they reject the deal.

-Kendall’s Army goes to work.

-Hugo plants some nasty stuff about Shiv and Roman. The Gerri stuff. Shiv’s pregnancy and her marriage.

-Colin puts his skills to work on Ken’s behalf. He gathers the evidence of the ATN shenanigans on Election Night and all the blame falls on Roman and Tom.

-Greg is Kendall’s new Ratfucker Sam. He has Greg fire Tom.

-Roman and Shiv are finished at Waystar - their relationship with Ken is irrevocably broken.

-Rava gets an emergency restraining order and Ken loses all contact with his kids.

-Kendall is the new CEO but he has now become Logan and is left alone.

All makes sense but I don’t see Roman doing anything to cause Ken to betray him.  He may sideline him but Ken, at this point, thinks he has Roman.  That could change of course. 

[billfromlaketravis 11819]

2 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Sarah Snook is actually pregnant and she’s nowhere near being fat.

Predictions-

-Menken will actually lose - he was pulled away from the kids by an aide who said “Ohio”. Jimenez wins and now everything is chaos.

-Mattson does something publicly insane.

-The board vote is a bloody knife fight and they reject the deal.

-Kendall’s Army goes to work.

-Hugo plants some nasty stuff about Shiv and Roman. The Gerri stuff. Shiv’s pregnancy and her marriage.

-Colin puts his skills to work on Ken’s behalf. He gathers the evidence of the ATN shenanigans on Election Night and all the blame falls on Roman and Tom.

-Greg is Kendall’s new Ratfucker Sam. He has Greg fire Tom.

-Roman and Shiv are finished at Waystar - their relationship with Ken is irrevocably broken.

-Rava gets an emergency restraining order and Ken loses all contact with his kids.

-Kendall is the new CEO but he has now become Logan and is left alone.

Yeah I’m beginning to believe the Ken, King of the Ashes theory. He’ll win Succession, but it’ll cost him everything, including his family. 

[HamsterHookah 112]

40 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I thought Ewan’s eulogy was one of the best I’ve ever seen. Brutally honest while being infinitely fair. Hard to do. Cromwell is a master actor and he finally had his big moment. 
 

Rupert Murdoch’s reaction video to the Succession eulogy would get more viewers than the Super Bowl. 

I agree-- thought the eulogy was fantastic writing. Shiv's sucked, Kendall's was B+ with special bonus for having to go mop up Roman's puddles and mess.

In the game of succession thrones, Roman died in this episode. He's officially out and I think that's why he lashed out like a mentally ill maniac at the protestors. Better that than kill someone or himself, I guess.

 

 

[Grade of D as in David 13255]

46 minutes ago, Wade said:

You didn't address Shiv's fat eyelids

Apparently her eyelids are not fat, just pregnant 

[YGIFS 19458]

Maybe that's how her mother knew before anyone else she was with child just by looking into her eyes.  

Or her eyelids are just big-boned.  

[Red Five 41736]

I was sort of creeped out by Roman's "Is he in there? Well why don't we get him out". Like it was the kind of crazy nonsensical thing someone in that much pain might say. 

[henrygandorf 29225]

3 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I was sort of creeped out by Roman's "Is he in there? Well why don't we get him out". Like it was the kind of crazy nonsensical thing someone in that much pain might say. 

i got a weird parallel in my head of "turn those machines back on" when he said that.  like we know you can't, and you know we can't, but sometimes the filter doesn't stop things we're thinking from becoming out-loud words.

[Celery Man 21095]

oh I thought what Roman was saying was "get him out of here", like.... I was OK I was going to be the big dick CEO who anoints the president and receives the thunderous applause but dad is in the box get him out and away from here

what did Mencken call Roman when he walked up at the party to remove the Greg? Something super shitty and I was just thinking "stop stop he's already dead"

that was an interesting scene too - just wave after wave of self-seeking Roys trying to get in on some conspiring. I hope Mencken gets fucked.

I don't know what to make of it at all but it is interesting that prior to Kendall's launch day speaking success he was spiraling and prior to his dad eulogy success he was also spiraling. 

[zman13 184]

5 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

oh I thought what Roman was saying was "get him out of here", like.... I was OK I was going to be the big dick CEO who anoints the president and receives the thunderous applause but dad is in the box get him out and away from here

what did Mencken call Roman when he walked up at the party to remove the Greg? Something super shitty and I was just thinking "stop stop he's already dead"

that was an interesting scene too - just wave after wave of self-seeking Roys trying to get in on some conspiring. I hope Mencken gets fucked.

I don't know what to make of it at all but it is interesting that prior to Kendall's launch day speaking success he was spiraling and prior to his dad eulogy success he was also spiraling. 

"Grim Weaper"

"Tiny Tears"

it was brutal

[oSuJeff97 3439]

1 hour ago, TonyTexas said:

It’s interesting that there has been no mention of Logan’s will. Is it possible that there are things in there that determines the end game? It would be fitting that Logan’s control extends beyond the grave. A scene where everyone in the estate attorney’s office for the reading gets fucked would be amazing. 

I suppose there could be something in there about his preferred heir, but being a publicly traded company, any change of CEO would still need to be approved by the Board, regardless of his "final wishes."

But yeah he could certainly still fuck them over in terms of money/inheritance... but not what happens at the company going forward.

 

48 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

I agree-- thought the eulogy was fantastic writing. Shiv's sucked, Kendall's was B+ with special bonus for having to go mop up Roman's puddles and mess.

In the game of succession thrones, Roman died in this episode. He's officially out and I think that's why he lashed out like a mentally ill maniac at the protestors. Better that than kill someone or himself, I guess.

I mentioned up-thread, but Roman has been dead-man walking since Logan died. The only thing he's ever wanted is for Logan to love him, and since that prospect was taken away from him, he's been slowly spiraling out of control, from the knee-jerk firings, to the outburst at Mattson to the meltdown at the funeral. He's been toast for a while now.

[oSuJeff97 3439]

10 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I don't know what to make of it at all but it is interesting that prior to Kendall's launch day speaking success he was spiraling and prior to his dad eulogy success he was also spiraling. 

He was spiraling in terms of his home/family life, but he's actually been really focused on the business for the past several episodes. It's as focused as we've seen him since the beginning of S1.  He's gone from "Umm. Yeah. Um. This is. Um. What I think I Um want to do..." to "Here's exactly what I'm going to do: kill the Mattson deal and become CEO, squeezing my siblings out in the process."

And he's been arranging things meticulously to make that happen for the past 3 episodes; the final move was getting Colin back to be his bag man so he can fully become his father.

[HamsterHookah 112]

It's a weird feeling, but I don't think the penultimate episode was that great tbh. Leading into the series finale, I'm not all that invested or care too much for what happens, more morbidly curious. Like I want to see the end of the train wreck.

To be honest, one of the weaker episodes of the season. I guess it was cool seeing Kendall build his team and Hugo woof woofing. Maybe I just miss the nasaly "Greyag!" from our favorite Minnesotan. 

[Red Five 41736]

2 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Leading into the series finale

I.... did not know this. Now I am sad. 

[BurdineBandit 846]

2 hours ago, Horn80 said:

Prediction-

Mattson wins and he hires Greg to fire all the Roy’s and their staff and is the sole winner.
 

Greg gets his final scene like Ana De Armas in Knives Out. Coffee mug and all. 

[Frank Drebin 5834]

1 hour ago, TonyTexas said:

It’s interesting that there has been no mention of Logan’s will. Is it possible that there are things in there that determines the end game? It would be fitting that Logan’s control extends beyond the grave. A scene where everyone in the estate attorney’s office for the reading gets fucked would be amazing. 

I think most of it is in a trust and family LP.  Not sure how much there is event to probate

[Chewbacca 7829]

6 hours ago, YGIFS said:

I think the 3 kids' mom is an even shittier parent than Logan was.    

The line from Shiv about not telling her she is pregnant because that information could be used against her was amazing.  

[Texas St. Armadillos 1388]

Seems like something bad is going to happen to Kendall's ex and kids.  

[Bozo_Casanova 26847]

You know who disappeared from the show? Marcia's son Amir.  It would be soap operatic to make him too central to the outcome at this point, but it's amazing not to have seen him since season 2. He's one of three people (the other two being Marcia and Colin) who know what Kendall did and how Logan covered it up, but unlike them he doesn't benefit directly from any of the scenarios in play. 

[YGIFS 19458]

^
Good catch.  Sure his mom can just keep gifting him millions to stay quiet.  Sure he could attempt a blackmail play, but he seemed intelligent enough to know that's just a race to the bottom and he'd spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder for the next Colin to come and dispose of him.  Plus broadcasting what he knows suggests his mother may have also known and kept quiet to collect vast fortunes.  So I'm guessing, he just gets a monthly stipend from the estate or Marcia.  And that's that.  He seemed slimy in the few episodes but not altogether self-destructive. 

[A-Tex Devil 2499]

1 hour ago, zman13 said:

"Grim Weaper"

"Tiny Tears"

it was brutal

Yeah....  Kendall had to tell him to cut it out.  Though it was a sign of humanity that he stood up for his brother in that moment against the putative POTUS-elect without hesitation.

[Bozo_Casanova 26847]

23 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

^
Good catch.  Sure his mom can just keep gifting him millions to stay quiet.  Sure he could attempt a blackmail play, but he seemed intelligent enough to know that's just a race to the bottom and he'd spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder for the next Colin to come and dispose of him.  Plus broadcasting what he knows suggests his mother may have also known and kept quiet to collect vast fortunes.  So I'm guessing, he just gets a monthly stipend from the estate or Marcia.  And that's that.  He seemed slimy in the few episodes but not altogether self-destructive. 

That's my read, too. Just pointing out that his absence last night was conspicuous considering that literally every other extended family member we have met on the show was either present at the funeral (i.e. Greg's mom, Ewan, Peter Munion) or accounted for (Tom, Rava and the kids). 

[henrygandorf 29225]

whatever happened to roman's wife?  it's like she never existed.

[Prepuce of Doom 21285]