Succession -- HBO

[Michael Knight 12718]

This was a brilliantly written and acted story about completely awful and stupid people. The Roy children are broken by their privilege; the only thing they were ever denied in life was love. So you might feel sad for them except they made like 9 billion dollars at the end but money simultaneously is everything and nothing to them because they have so much and can't comprehend what its like to be without.  The ending reflected the emptiness of it all. 

[6th Street 6297]

Garbage ending

[F250 28491]

Welp.

[F250 28491]

22 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Garbage ending

 

[TOR 5190]

I was 60/40 on whether they were actually going to murder Kendall.  Water is a big theme with the character, along with cocaine.  He couldn't jump off the tower though because Logan installed suicide rails after Shiv's wedding.  

Is it just me or did Mama Roy-whatever get a lot more sympathetic since Shiv's wedding? 

Shiv being that close to the throne will torture her, but it was more important that neither Kendall or Rome ever got it.  IMO the worst of the siblings.  

The Disgusting Brothers!  Who here HASN'T been in a raging bathroom slapfight with their crush at least once?

 

 

[henrygandorf 28824]

3 hours ago, SizzleChest said:

It was a very solid finale.  Not spectacular.

Kendall was seated and dethroned in a nanosecond.

Shiv's last volley just nicked the net and Kendall couldn't get to it, so 40-40 / Deuce.

The result for her and Tom is an uneasy detente, but one that serves as the most plausible end (or really just where the story told to us stops).

Roman flirted with the dragon, but walks away free of expectations, guilt, and all the earthly family burdens.

Kendall fucked his life hard.  He chased it like an addict, but will desperately seek redemption.

Roman was correct - all three of them were bullshit.

four seasons later, everyone is in the same basic position as where they started. no growth for non-serious people. 

[Horn80 6015]

Didn’t care for ending because just seemed repetitive AF and the scene with the blinder was so cheesy it made me cringe that  Dreams by The Cranberries might start playing in background.

[Celery Man 20607]

“I’m the eldest son!”

”..you’re not?”

[Frank The Tank 1438]

3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

“I’m the eldest son!”

”..you’re not?”

That’s what it all came down to for Ken. He falsely believed it was owed to him. He didn’t earn it, he wouldn’t actually be good at it, but daddy promised him when he was 7 and he WANTED it. 
Also, LOL at Conner going in first and taking what he actually wanted when the other 3 weren’t around.  

[Bateshorn 9595]

7 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

Greg was unkowingly instrumental to everything.  Lucas played him like fiddle.

Logan knew it, as did Mattson. Logan despised it, Mattson used it.

[Bateshorn 9595]

7 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

This was a brilliantly written and acted story about completely awful and stupid people. The Roy children are broken by their privilege; the only thing they were ever denied in life was love. So you might feel sad for them except they made like 9 billion dollars at the end but money simultaneously is everything and nothing to them because they have so much and can't comprehend what its like to be without.  The ending reflected the emptiness of it all. 

This.

Tom, the grasping riser, is the only person on the show capable of showing any empathy or relatable human feeling. 

[Celery Man 20607]

This is all just temporary until Brian from Roman’s management course rises to the top.

[Bama Chick 28595]

I hated the ending but it actually makes the most sense.

Roman never wanted it, he just pretended to want it it to please his father. Once his father was gone, he could finally admit that and let it go.

Shiv spent her whole life trying to convince everyone - and herself - that she was Logan reincarnated. But when it came down to it, she is, and always has been, exactly like her mother. She’ll be yelling at her kid one dawn for fucking with Tom’s cheese.

Kendall was Logan’s broken vessel. He poured into him all his lightness and darkness. He could be good when he embraced the lightness but the darkness was too powerful.

And Tom - was the most like Logan, not in personality but naked ambition.

My problem was the pacing. Killing off Logan was the right decision - cramming ALL that subsequently happened into seven episodes? Made a lot of big moments/character decisions feel out of nowhere or unearned. Could have used another season.

I’m both satisfied and unsatisfied, thrilled and disappointed. So perfect ending for this show but it still feels frustrating.

[Party_Taco 3660]

After sleeping on it, I still don’t love Shiv’s decision, but agree it was likely her best option.

This is a more measured take along those lines from Reddit:

“One idea -- she might have been thinking about the last conversation she had with her dad:

Logan wanted his company to be sold, for each of the children to have their own pile of money, and to "reset the family dynamic". When the vote rolled around to Shiv, she realized she could actually fulfill her father's final wish. Set everyone free of the corporate drama and also of Logan's shadow.

If they kept the company and Kendall were the CEO, the family dynamic would be exactly the same. Perhaps worse, since Kendall would now go into full "CEO beast mode", and Roman/Shiv would feel resentful that they didn't have the throne.

But, if the company were sold and they each had their own pile of money, there was the possibility, at least, that they could have family relationships outside of the corporate power struggle. They can finally seek meaning elsewhere. I think Roman's smile at the end of the episode is a hint that this might be the start of Roman repairing himself, at least. The symbolism of Kendall sitting at edge of the water at sunset also suggests this: that perhaps Kendall is now free to be reborn as his own man, rather than his father's son.

Why vote "yes" to the deal? Well, the cherry on top for Shiv is that, with Tom as CEO, she upgrades her striver husband to a "bonafide corporate hotshot", which was always a low-key dream of hers going back to Season 1. Even if Matsson fires Tom in short order, there is no denying that, from an optics and PR standpoint, Tom is now "CEO material" for Fortune 500 companies. This was an act of kindness toward Tom, since he really wanted the CEO position -- it completes his personal "self-made corporate titan" narrative. What's more, it gives Shiv one last shot -- long shot though it might be -- to repair her marriage.

That's a lot of thoughts to have in the split second of the corporate board room vote. I believe that's why she walked out to take a beat. It suddenly dawned on her that this vote was more complex than she realized. At first, she was voting "no" as a block with her brothers out of anger toward Matsson's betrayal. But, it dawned on her that voting "no" to the deal was perpetuating the family dysfunction, while voting "yes" to the deal elegantly fulfilled her father's wishes. What's more, voting "yes" freed her brothers and herself of Logan's shadow and supported her husband, to boot.”

[speed817 18917]

43 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

I’m both satisfied and unsatisfied, thrilled and disappointed.

Is that you wife???

[Aqua Buddha 14217]

I found the whole thing pretty sexist but maybe that was Armstrong's entire point with a commentary towards gender norms.  It's Shiv's fathers company and the only way she can get a seat at the table is to sell it to where her husband ca now be CEO?  Maybe that was the point with Kendall saying "I'm the oldest boy."  (I never understood why that mattered but it does to some people.)

Also, I didn't like how all of this unfolded with 10 minutes left or something.  Just seemed lazy.

[Mez2 4013]

Fucking shiv. Dammit woman. 

[Augustus 3061]

So we had the scene at the beach, where it looked like there might actually be some progress, some growth, some "let's work together, for real" with Roman and Shiv swimming out to the platform to anoint their brother, followed by the meal fit for a king ceremony, and I actually thought it possible, for a moment, they recognized the need to work together to keep the business in the family and that only one of them could sit in the big chair, so they were going to have to rise above their insecurities and emotional immaturity and greed, etc.

And of course they couldn't manage that for 24 hours.

Shiv couldn't handle Ken winning, so she torpedoed the deal because being the winner's wife is closer to the throne than being his sister,  and the most pathetic moment of that whole episode was Tom holding his hand out and her placing her hand on his in the most loveless act of affection/partnership one could witness.  That scene was just nauseating.

I'm actually happy for Roman.  He needs to dive into some real therapy and get as far from that business and his family as he can.  Connor is so detached from reality I'm not sure what's actually possible with him, but Roman has a real chance to be a decent guy with a reasonably happy life if he confronts his demons and grows up.

Speaking of growing up, Ken is about 8 years old, emotionally, and watching him beg Shiv not to change her vote was physically painful.  That guy's damaged 9 ways to Sunday and he's gonna overdose--deliberately or accidentally--or opt for some other suicide vehicle.

I'm seriously glad this show's over.  I think anybody with a history of alcoholism/addiction can relate to many aspects of the Roy kids' personalities and their character defects and it ain't fun.  This was one of the most honest shows I've seen and it wasn't pretty.

[ChickenSandwich 9767]

The ending is much better if they cut the scene of Tom telling Shiv he is the choice for CEO. 
 

Shiv makes the choice to kneecap her brother only for the Tomshell to be dropped on her. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by ChickenSandwich

[Augustus 3061]

5 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

The ending is much better if they cut the scene of Tom telling Shiv he is the choice for CEO. 
 

Shiv makes the choice to kneecap her brother only for the Tomshell to be dropped on her. 

She loses a lot of motivation to kneecap Ken if she doesn't know she's married to the CEO.

[ChickenSandwich 9767]

4 minutes ago, Augustus said:

She loses a lot of motivation to kneecap Ken if she doesn't know she's married to the CEO.

True but I still feel her true motivation was to make Ken lose if she couldn’t win. 
 

Add in Logan’s wish to sell, and that would be plenty for what we have seen from Shiv.  

[Celery Man 20607]

Mattson explaining to Tom that he wants to fuck his pregnant wife, and that she wants to fuck him, and so maybe Tom should be his puppet instead because things could get icky, and him eating it all up - one of the top two most pathetic husbands I've seen.

[Red Five 40356]

"He'll suck the biggest dick in the room."

I was about 30% sure Roman and Shiv were gonna swim out there and hold Kendall underwater. 

[billfromlaketravis 11290]

Such a great show. Even during the “meal fit for a king scene” I was anxious that Ken would have an allergic reaction and die. 
 

I’d say it largely end on a high note, and it needed to end when it did. I doubt many of us would want to stick around for a season of Matsson cucking Tom.

[Horn80 6015]

5 minutes ago, Red Five said:

"He'll suck the biggest dick in the room."

I was about 30% sure Roman and Shiv were gonna swim out there and hold Kendall underwater. 

I was pulling for a shark to end all three.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Horn80

[MissingInAction 24416]

Willas look of total defeat when she found out Connor wasnt leaving was a great reveal. Here she thinks her gold digger plan is coming to fruition but nope. He may be rich but he's dumb as fuck. 

I also noticed the lighting on Tom in the final car scene kind of made him look like Logan.

[Celery Man 20607]

So, the kids all took a big L by successfully hoodwinking a tech idiot into massively overpaying for a poorly managed slowly dying legacy media company, guaranteeing their maximum possible payday.

Did they all just forget about Pierce? Did that get wrapped up at some point, or I guess once they got past the victory of killing their dad by saying the biggest number they all moved past it.

Kendall with the "can you imagine that" about being told at 7 years old that everything the light touches would be his and then 32 years later having it all yanked away lol

[Celery Man 20607]

2 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Willas look of total defeat when she found out Connor wasnt leaving was a great reveal. Here she thinks her gold digger plan is coming to fruition but nope. He may be rich but he's dumb as fuck. 

I also noticed the lighting on Tom in the final car scene kind of made him look like Logan.

lol fucking willa thought Connor was going to go be an ambassador in uggabuggastan and she would get to be bohemian. Wait, wasn't it actually Slovenia that had been on the table (obviously he is of no use any longer)? That would be the closest she'd ever get to being Bohemian.

[LonghornSean 3910]

51 minutes ago, Red Five said:

"He'll suck the biggest dick in the room."

I was about 30% sure Roman and Shiv were gonna swim out there and hold Kendall underwater. 

Mattson’s response, “Love is in the air” was fucking hilarious.

[CooterBrown 17735]

Did they all just forget about Pierce? Did that get wrapped up at some point, or I guess once they got past the victory of killing their dad by saying the biggest number they all moved past it.

Without Shiv’s cut they can’t afford it. However Ken and Roman will get up to half of Logan’s money assuming he didn’t leave anything to anyone other than his four kids. You’d think whatever that amount is, it’s easily more than Shiv’s 2B from the sale of the company and they can move forward with buying Pierce.

[Haphap 727]

Weren't the siblings supposed to buy Nan and the Pierce's company, with the sale of their family company to the Swede.  So the epilogue of this series, Kendall can still rule that fiefdom if he wants

Edited May 29, 2023 by Haphap

[TexasMan 10723]

 

[Dbeasy 14783]

What is so great about this show is that it broke the Hollywood formula. There’s always a hero, a conflict, and a resolution of the conflict. I can’t recall any show or movies I’ve ever watched where every single character is a piece of shit.  You end up pulling for no one.  Genius. 

[ATXhorn17 1591]

13 hours ago, ATXhorn17 said:

Kendall should’ve ascended the throne to complete his arc… Shiv’s last-minute flip flop didn’t make much sense. I was getting so amped when the siblings were working as a team. 

After sleeping on it, I’m at peace with the last episode. I think my negative gut reaction was just disappointment that Kendall’s narrative ended on such a somber note. 

[TOR 5190]

47 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

What is so great about this show is that it broke the Hollywood formula. There’s always a hero, a conflict, and a resolution of the conflict. I can’t recall any show or movies I’ve ever watched where every single character is a piece of shit.  You end up pulling for no one.  Genius. 

Indeed.  They also nailed the character casting too, not filling the show with models like some garbage network drama.  The portrayal of corporate types is dead-on.  Gerri LOOKS like a frumpy middle-aged corporate lawyer.  Karl and Frank HAVE seen it all, and wear support socks for long flights and avoid the sauna.  The siblings are NYC 4s.  Tom has a box head and Greg is a 7 foot manchild.  The pretty ones are secondary characters, assistants and TV talent.  It just works.

[Aqua Buddha 14217]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

What is so great about this show is that it broke the Hollywood formula. There’s always a hero, a conflict, and a resolution of the conflict. I can’t recall any show or movies I’ve ever watched where every single character is a piece of shit.  You end up pulling for no one.  Genius. 

Sopranos.  

[F250 28491]

I believed Shiv when she told Ken that he wouldn't be good at it. The dude is a walking disaster and was already showing signs at the beginning of the board meeting. Roman knew it too but he was never capable of taking a stand against his siblings.

Shiv could have just voted yes on the deal but requested a moment to think then Ken proceeded to follow her out and demonstrate what a fuck up he really is. lol He tried to rip open Roman's stitches like a psycho.

 

[Michael Knight 12718]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Sopranos.  

People still rooted for Tony

[Bama Chick 28595]

Jeremy Strong literally shaving away the character of Kendall Roy.

Seems fitting that the last scene they filmed was the “Meal Fit For A King” scene - what could’ve been if they hadn’t been fucked up by their parents from birth.

[hobbes2702 12533]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Sopranos.  

Tony was the hero/anti. There’s none of those in this show.

[wild_turkey 3081]

I thought the finale was good and it was true to the overall show. I could’ve done with a little less of the back and forth with Shiv in this episode, but it did serve the purpose of allowing them to have a brief moment of fake happiness before blowing it all apart.

Each of the Roy siblings was terrible in their own way, and none of them would be good at the CEO position. It’s a fitting ending that none of them would get the thing they wanted the most, especially Kendall who has felt entitled to it from the very first episode.

I like that Tom ended up CEO, mainly because he was always treated like a second class citizen by the Roy family and he’s the only one still involved in their business, even if he’s just a puppet for Matsson. Tom has always been slightly less terrible in my book, due to him being an outsider who did something to make a name for himself, rather than assuming the world was his birthright. I think he’s a little more competent for his role in the company, but it’s obviously not why he was chosen in the end.

Not sure how to interpret Shiv and Tom’s relationship in the end. On the one hand, you could say he’s a cuck of the highest order, listening to Matsson say he wants to fuck Shiv and still going along with it without protest. On the other hand, I think Tom has considered their dead for some time and it’s purely business for him moving forward. In the past, he seemed to always welcome Shiv back, and when she asked him about the prospect of a real relationship, his answer was “I honestly don’t know.”

If there are any winners in all of this, it would be Gerri, Frank, and Karl. They got what they wanted and can ride off into the sunset.

[speed817 18917]

13 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Jeremy Strong literally shaving away the character of Kendall Roy.
 

 

Seems fitting that the last scene they filmed was the “Meal Fit For A King” scene - what could’ve been if they hadn’t been fucked up by their parents from birth.

 

I noticed that Sarah Snook looked REALLY pregnant looking during this scene so makes sense that it was the very last scene they filmed.

[Red Five 40356]

2 hours ago, TOR said:

Indeed.  They also nailed the character casting too, not filling the show with models like some garbage network drama.  The portrayal of corporate types is dead-on.  Gerri LOOKS like a frumpy middle-aged corporate lawyer.  Karl and Frank HAVE seen it all, and wear support socks for long flights and avoid the sauna.  The siblings are NYC 4s.  Tom has a box head and Greg is a 7 foot manchild.  The pretty ones are secondary characters, assistants and TV talent.  It just works.

I was told this weekend that I resemble Tom. 

So, every main character, except Tom. He is very handsome. 

[ATXhorn17 1591]

47 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I was told this weekend that I resemble Tom. 

So, every main character, except Tom. He is very handsome. 

Well, Tom’s actor was also cast to play Mr. Darcy in Kierra Knightly’s Pride & Prejudice, so safe to say he’s conventionally attractive. Congrats!

Edited May 29, 2023 by ATXhorn17

[Doc Sam Beckett 5712]

On 5/24/2023 at 1:52 PM, irishtexan said:

1) The Wire

2) The Sopranos 

3) Deadwood

4) Succession - for now

5) Game of Thrones

Shows that could overtake Succession - Euphoria and Last of Us

Mini-series that would slot in above Succession - Band of Brothers, Chernobyl

Comedies that I would rank higher than Succession: Veep, Curb your Enthusiasm

Not sure where Barry fits in or what to classify it as.

 

[F250 28491]

1 hour ago, Michael Knight said:

People still rooted for Tony

Including the FBI.

 

[oSuJeff97 3435]

I thought it was a perfect ending and, as I predicted, none of the primary sibs got what they wanted because none of them could overcome their fatal flaws, no matter how much they tried to cover them up.

It was fitting that Roman, the only one of the three who has any self-awareness whatsoever, had to lay it bare for Kendall with his “we’re bullshit” speech.

Of course, each of them are also walking away from the sale with a couple billion dollars, so there’s that. Who knows what kind of awful shit they are going to unleash on the world with that money, lol. 

[Aqua Buddha 14217]

There are some parallels between Succession and Yellowstone.  Mainly a patriarch has some kids that may or may not inherit everything.  The parallels mostly end there because Yellowstone is a stupid fucking show at this point.

However, in both, there are multiple sons and only one daughter.  Also, the writers seem to struggle with female characters.  In each, they took the simple route, which was to make her like a man.  Both Beth Dutton and Shiv swear, drink, and fuck their way through life.  They're jolly good fun but not that accurate.  Imagine Succession if there were 2 daughters and 2 sons or 3 daughters and 1 son.  Dynamics are totally different and the writers would actually have to write for a female character.

The real life blueprint is even there with Sumner and Shari Redstone.

[billfromlaketravis 11290]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

Including the FBI.

 

Inspired by Greg Scarpa's FBI handler in Third Colombo War. Every bit as twisted as Bulger and Connolly, but Scarpa's handler got to retire. Connolly did 12 years. 

[oh_snap 692]

Thought finale was fine. But one thing that bothers me was the sequence of events in Mattson’s screwing over Shiv.  She was the swing vote in the board meeting. He couldn’t have possibly known she was going to vote the deal through, so I don’t understand why he let the information out before the vote. I would think more realistically he pulls that move after the vote or he had more votes lined up so he could afford to lose her vote.  But that makes for less compelling tv.