Succession -- HBO

[Michael Knight 12718]

22 hours ago, oh_snap said:

Tricking Greg to leak it and then giving him grief for doing it is exactly the type of move I’d expect from someone like Mattson. But again, doesn’t really matter.  It was super reckless and not realistic for Mattson to concede Shiv’s vote - and he did that by offering the job to Tom before the vote. It was gonna leak somehow, which puts the whole vote in jeopardy for him. A risk no one in that seat would ever take. 
This show was so well written, so my view of the series doesn’t change. But I felt like the writers took shortcuts here for sake of drama… which is fine. 

Mattson decided to double-cross Shiv because as she pointed out they were way ahead on votes and he didn't like the magazine with the picture of him with her being the puppetmaster. These people don't act rationally because they simply don't have to as they have nothing to lose, its all ego. In the end hes still a billionaire and whats money worth if you have to consider anyone besides yourself.

[Michael Knight 12718]

[Reynolds Woodcock 4629]

2 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Tom is interesting because arguably the title suits and watches were what he really wanted?

Tom is a stand in for the middle class striver’s role in the pitfalls of capitalist excess. Willing to sell a piece of his soul to gain the ever-illusive leap in wealth and class rank, and willing to sell an even bigger piece (or in this case all) of his soul to ensure he never falls back down from whence he came. Sure, it’s exaggerated, but he is the most relatable character to the masses (myself included). 

But in the end, Tom gained nothing of permanence, other than a guaranteed miserable job with no security, trapped in a loveless marriage to a spouse who will never view him as her equal, and on the precipice of raising a child who is no doubt completely fucked.

[HamsterHookah 112]

19 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

Tom is a stand in for the middle class striver’s role in the pitfalls of capitalist excess. Willing to sell a piece of his soul to gain the ever-illusive leap in wealth and class rank, and willing to sell an even bigger piece (or in this case all) of his soul to ensure he never falls back down from whence he came. Sure, it’s exaggerated, but he is the most relatable character to the masses (myself included). 

But in the end, Tom gained nothing of permanence, other than a guaranteed miserable job with no security, trapped in a loveless marriage to a spouse who will never view him as her equal, and on the precipice of raising a child who is no doubt completely fucked.

I disagree. Tom got the big job. He got the CEO of a $105bn organization. 

It's like getting an NFL head coaching job. Yea, you might be horrible and suck, but you are pretty much assured another shot (if not 2 or 3 more) just by virtue of having been an NFL coach in the vaunted club. Same with being the CEO of a Fortune 200.

By playing and winning the Game of Succession Thrones, he has assured his future as a Business Executive, whether at GoJoStar or elsewhere, until retiring on a board somewhere. And his kid will grow up the son/daughter of a CEO and billionaire heiress, going to the best schools and when they grow up they will all drink their martini's dry, and have $60mm penthouse boxes full of ticky tack that all look the same. And a pink one, and a green one, and a blue one and yellow one...

10 out of 10 come-up for a guy raised middle class from a St. Paul suburb, if you ask me.

Edited May 31, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[Celery Man 20607]

22 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

he is the most relatable character to the masses (myself included). 

 

For me it’s the guy who vomited out of the mouth of a cartoon mascot’s head and then bumblefucked his way into moderate success

[F250 28491]

Some Of these are pretty funny.

[TOR 5190]

42 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

For me it’s the guy who vomited out of the mouth of a cartoon mascot’s head and then bumblefucked his way into moderate success

Hell that sounds like a few of our Head Couches.

[hornian 5159]

27 minutes ago, TOR said:

Hell that sounds like a few of our Head Couches.

Fuck yo couch. 

[Wade 463]

4 hours ago, Chopper said:

The way you know Tom and Shiv had talked and he knew he had the votes was that when Hugo approached Tom before the meeting, Tom looked right past him and asked about Karolina.

 

That occurred after the Board meeting

[mchookem 15539]

nobody that actually paid attention thinks Shiv and Tom colluded on the end deal lol 🙄

[henrygandorf 28824]

wait, so the offer was real?

[mchookem 15539]

13 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

wait, so the offer was real?

 

heh

 

[ChickenSandwich 9767]

Matsson won 

Edited May 31, 2023 by ChickenSandwich

[Bama Chick 28595]

And if you don’t believe the rest of us, here’s Matthew Macfadyen on Shiv’s decision-



Shiv did not plan anything with Tom and she 100% did it because she can’t stand Ken winning.

[HamsterHookah 112]

I ate a pancake shaped like a hat this morning.

[Reynolds Woodcock 4629]

3 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

And if you don’t believe the rest of us, here’s Matthew Macfadyen on Shiv’s decision-



Shiv did not plan anything with Tom and she 100% did it because she can’t stand Ken winning.

Macfayden obviously doesn’t understand Succession - Chopper

[Bateshorn 9594]

14 hours ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

Agree with all of this except for the bolded. Tom has nothing but a higher salary, easily expendable at any moment. He is a “pain sponge” for a guy who told him he wants to fuck his wife, and you know the Roy prenup is air tight. 

Tom keeps his watches and suits for the time being, but in no way is he a “winner”.

Tom has an anchor baby with Shiv.  He pulled a Liz Hurley. 

[Chuckie Finster 22321]

8 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Mattson won 

This is 100% correct and a take that has surprisingly been ignored.  

Logan chose selling the company over giving it to one of his children.  The denial of this fact makes the "who do you think Dad wanted?" conversation in the finale equal parts heartbreaking and infuriating.

The ending was clear from the very first episode: none of these kids are worthy successors.  The four seasons are merely their journey to this realization.

 

[TOR 5190]

37 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Tom has an anchor baby with Shiv.  He pulled a Liz Hurley. 

 

[Bozo_Casanova 25874]

On 5/24/2023 at 7:57 PM, Bama Chick said:

From Mark Mylod, director of the finale -

This ended up being very accurate. Throughout the finale, Shiv was in that shot position - bit of a head fake because she didn't win the CEO job but she was driving the course of events at all times.   Succession was never really about who would succeed Logan Roy as CEO of the company but who would succeed Logan Roy as the head of the family, and the right to betray the others with impunity. 
 

On 5/22/2023 at 7:44 AM, hornian said:

It’s gonna be Tom. Calling it. 

Noted. 

12 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

I disagree. Tom got the big job. He got the CEO of a $105bn organization. 

It's like getting an NFL head coaching job. Yea, you might be horrible and suck, but you are pretty much assured another shot (if not 2 or 3 more) just by virtue of having been an NFL coach in the vaunted club. Same with being the CEO of a Fortune 200.

By playing and winning the Game of Succession Thrones, he has assured his future as a Business Executive, whether at GoJoStar or elsewhere, until retiring on a board somewhere. And his kid will grow up the son/daughter of a CEO and billionaire heiress, going to the best schools and when they grow up they will all drink their martini's dry, and have $60mm penthouse boxes full of ticky tack that all look the same. And a pink one, and a green one, and a blue one and yellow one...

10 out of 10 come-up for a guy raised middle class from a St. Paul suburb, if you ask me.

Good take. 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[MissingInAction 24416]

23 hours ago, nolongerU2horn said:

lol I swear to god every single long TV series thread ends up with people complaining about "lazy writing" and "bad pacing"

 

so predictable

[mchookem 15539]

5 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

I ate a pancake shaped like a hat this morning.

[F250 28491]

Last night, I noticed that Rebecca's mom from Ted Lasso is Caroline from succession. Didn't realize it until I thought "she seems to be less of a bitch in this episode" then realized I was thinking of Caroline from Succession. The same actress playing a cold English mother on two different series finales.

 

 

[Jerry Callo 8630]

31 minutes ago, F250 said:

Last night, I noticed that Rebecca's mom from Ted Lasso is Caroline from succession. Didn't realize it until I thought "she seems to be less of a bitch in this episode" then realized I was thinking of Caroline from Succession. The same actress playing a cold English mother on two different series finales.

 

 

She is also in the new Apple TV show Silo - tinkering lady that lives down in the basement (not a cold English mother).

[Chopper 16620]

On 5/30/2023 at 9:51 PM, mchookem said:

nobody that actually paid attention thinks Shiv and Tom colluded on the end deal lol 🙄

"Colluded" is a strong word and one I didn't use, so why don't you try not making shit up in order to make whatever point you're trying to make. However, maybe you dozed off when Tom ran off after the bathroom scene? Maybe that's when you jerked off and were cleaning up? Where do you think he ran at the last minute to try to save the deal? There was only one person he would have called. Shiv may have made an agreement or she may have been non-committal at the time and kept it in the back of her mind at the board meeting. But the way it ended up was certainly not spontaneous.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Chopper

[Chopper 16620]

On 5/31/2023 at 7:14 AM, Reynolds Woodcock said:

Macfayden obviously doesn’t understand Succession - Chopper

Tell me you never read anything David Chase said about the finale of the Sopranos without telling me.

edit - and also that was a quote from the actor who said in the same article he didn't talk to the writers about what they were doing, that he just goes out and performs what they've written for him, and that he hasn't thought about the show since filming ended. FFS. What exactly do you think it proves, besides your proclivity to act like a dumb fucking twat.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Chopper

[Celery Man 20607]

[babysdaddy 2708]

There are four rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body; and never argue with a guy that has over 700 of his posts complaining about Elon Musk. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.

[SizzleChest 8162]

20 hours ago, F250 said:

Last night, I noticed that Rebecca's mom from Ted Lasso is Caroline from succession. Didn't realize it until I thought "she seems to be less of a bitch in this episode" then realized I was thinking of Caroline from Succession. The same actress playing a cold English mother on two different series finales.

 

 

Also was Clementine Churchill in The Crown.  She's everywhere.

[Reynolds Woodcock 4629]

1 hour ago, Chopper said:

Tell me you never read anything David Chase said about the finale of the Sopranos without telling me.

edit - and also that was a quote from the actor who said in the same article he didn't talk to the writers about what they were doing, that he just goes out and performs what they've written for him, and that he hasn't thought about the show since filming ended. FFS. What exactly do you think it proves, besides your proclivity to act like a dumb fucking twat.

There are multiple interviews with the actual director of the episode where he talks about Shiv‘s thought process leading up to her no vote, and specifically how seeing Ken with his feet up on Logan’s desk broing it up with Stewy was a turning point.

Maybe you think a Tom/Shiv alliance would have been better writing, but that isn’t actually what happened.

[utxmike05 1825]

Fuck Shiv.

For not showing us a booty bikini shot all series.  Did get a little cleavage though.

I hated all of them off and on this series...but in the last few episodes I wanted them to succeed as a trio ONLY because I hated Matteson. 

Shiv and her faces every time someone makes a point to her is annoying. Good luck w Tommy boy.  

Honestly think Shiv finally realized she had a better change at her succession with Tom and his future child rather than her brothers.  She can control Tom.  And she will probably sleep with Matteson lol.

Damn Roman is a mess the last few eps.  And then the jab at Ken's kids / bloodline. He is a Sicko lol.

Great series overall.  Family nightmare.

Edited June 1, 2023 by utxmike05

[hobbes2702 12533]

2 hours ago, Chopper said:

"Colluded" is a strong word and one I didn't use, so why don't you try not making shit up in order to make whatever point you're trying to make. However, maybe you dozed off when Tom ran off after the bathroom scene? Maybe that's when you jerked off and were cleaning up? Where do you think he ran at the last minute to try to save the deal? There was only one person he would have called. Shiv may have made an agreement or she may have been non-committal at the time and kept it in the back of her mind at the board meeting. But the way it ended up was certainly not spontaneous.

He called Mattson. That’s why the very next scene is Mattson yelling at his people to secure votes.
Rewatch the episode or something because you clearly missed it.

It absolutely was spontaneous and I’m not sure why you’re continuing to argue this.

Edited June 1, 2023 by hobbes2702

[Incredulity 11188]

A bit disappointed in the finale but overall enjoyed the series.

The final siblings gathering outside the board meeting had me ready to gouge out my eyeballs with a rusty spoon.  I couldn't take another second of puerile angst between those three.

Shiv should have coldly flipped in the board room and walked out like a villain. 

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

2 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

A bit disappointed in the finale but overall enjoyed the series.

The final siblings gathering outside the board meeting had me ready to gouge out my eyeballs with a rusty spoon.  I couldn't take another second of puerile angst between those three.

Shiv should have coldly flipped in the board room and walked out like a villain. 

Grapefruit spoon would work better 

[ChickenSandwich 9767]

2 hours ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

There are multiple interviews with the actual director of the episode where he talks about Shiv‘s thought process leading up to her no vote, and specifically how seeing Ken with his feet up on Logan’s desk broing it up with Stewy was a turning point.

Maybe you think a Tom/Shiv alliance would have been better writing, but that isn’t actually what happened.

which is why IMO outing Tom as a CEO to Shiv was a waste and not needed as extra motivation.  The Tom reveal at the board meeting would have been worth it.

[Sawbonz 26871]

2 hours ago, utxmike05 said:

I wanted them to succeed as a trio

I think that is the big takeaway. They couldn’t act as a trio. Ever. The play was for the brothers to align behind Shiv. As flawed as that still would have been it would have worked. But Ken has an IQ of maybe 100 and Roman is emotionally an infant. 
 

And so Tom wins. Holding out his hand for Shiv to take it at the end was a boss move no doubt

 

And of course the ultimate irony is they didn’t really lose. Financially they are way better off with the deal than trying to keep the company. Logan knew that from the beginning 

 

[Go Pokes 979]

3 hours ago, utxmike05 said:

Fuck Shiv.

For not showing us a booty bikini shot all series.  Did get a little cleavage though.

I hated all of them off and on this series...but in the last few episodes I wanted them to succeed as a trio ONLY because I hated Matteson. 

Shiv and her faces every time someone makes a point to her is annoying. Good luck w Tommy boy.  

Honestly think Shiv finally realized she had a better change at her succession with Tom and his future child rather than her brothers.  She can control Tom.  And she will probably sleep with Matteson lol.

Damn Roman is a mess the last few eps.  And then the jab at Ken's kids / bloodline. He is a Sicko lol.

Great series overall.  Family nightmare.

what was the deal with the bloodline jab?  I'm having trouble recalling what that refers to.  

[Chewbacca 7620]

On 5/30/2023 at 4:55 PM, Reynolds Woodcock said:

Agree with all of this except for the bolded. Tom has nothing but a higher salary, easily expendable at any moment. He is a “pain sponge” for a guy who told him he wants to fuck his wife, and you know the Roy prenup is air tight. 

Tom keeps his watches and suits for the time being, but in no way is he a “winner”.

CEOs make millions.  He'll never be on Shiv's level of wealth, but a few years as the CEO and he's set.

[SizzleChest 8162]

2 minutes ago, Go Pokes said:

what was the deal with the bloodline jab?  I'm having trouble recalling what that refers to.  

That one or both of Kendall’s kids were not his biologically.

[HamsterHookah 112]

1 minute ago, SizzleChest said:

That one or both of Kendall’s kids were not his biologically.

When he said this my mind went back to when Logan slapped one of the kids or otherwise physically abused/hit one at some point, or something, and it made more sense.

[nolongerU2horn 725]

"Dad’s view was that yours aren’t real. That’s just what Dad said. They are a pair of randos. One is a buy-in, the other is half Rava (Kendall’s estranged wife), half some filing cabinet guy, right?"

 

Sophie was adopted, Iverson was (presumably) from a sperm donor

[SizzleChest 8162]

“A buy in” - ooof.

Edited June 1, 2023 by SizzleChest

[hobbes2702 12533]

18 minutes ago, Go Pokes said:

what was the deal with the bloodline jab?  I'm having trouble recalling what that refers to.  

One kid is adopted for sure, maybe both. 

[TOR 5190]

19 minutes ago, Go Pokes said:

what was the deal with the bloodline jab?  I'm having trouble recalling what that refers to.  

Logan didn't think that Kendall was the father of either of them because one was adopted and the other because Reva was a ho.

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by TOR

[Sawbonz 26871]

[henrygandorf 28824]

as for the language, somebody mentioned it upthread, but shiv ending every other sentence with comma then "yeah?" got a little aggravating over the past few episodes.  seems like an english or irish pattern and she really only started doing it recently.  i know it's not the actress (who's australian), it's the script.

2-3 episodes ago, i said out loud that she was doing it.  then i said, "again", and then "again", and it got to the point where she did it 7-10x in the last 15 min of an episode i couldn't keep up.  can't remember when it intro'd, but it's not the first time the show has started using language then repeated it over and over as if it's been part of the show the whole time.

at the end of last season, the phrase "he rates you" or "he doesn't even rate you" which i know to be british slang, if that's what you want to call it, was used 3-4x in the last 90 min of the season but hadn't been uttered previously or since.  when roman beefed it at the funeral, kendall said, "you fucked it" which is another more british expression.  "you fucked it" or some form of that was used 4-5x from the funeral scene until the end of the season but again, not previously.

i know the creators of the show are brits and different people write different scripts, along with dialogue polishers.  i also know that in the show they grew up with a british mom and logan is a scot, so those could conceivably exist in their vocabularies, but the timing of when and with what frequency they've been used has stood out to me.  not as a positive or negative, just something i've noticed.

[A-Tex Devil 2414]

So every time I see or read a Jeremy Strong interview he sounds like a real life actor version of Kendall Roy.  I can see why no one could stand him.  

[Wade 463]

Fan of the show from the first episode.  The "wealth porn" as someone aptly phrased it was phenomenal.  All four seasons.  It was the little things, like showing the cast getting out of their cars to walk to the Italian villa, helicopter, or whatever, that made viewers feel like they were rolling with these rich cats.  One of my favorite scenes were the women in season three walking to Caroline's party in that quaint Tuscan village.

And the acting was fantastic.  I was stoned watching the final episode, and usually when like that, the obviousness of the acting in movies/shows just leaps out.  With these guys, I could still buy in.  Everyone of those actors were outstanding.  I think my favorite scene of all was the dinner with Kendall and Logan at the end of season 3, esp starting at about the 3 minute mark. 

 

[Reynolds Woodcock 4629]

5 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

CEOs make millions.  He'll never be on Shiv's level of wealth, but a few years as the CEO and he's set.

Look, I would cut the throat of every other partner at my firm if it meant making an extra million, so I get the allure of the almighty dollar. But being an empty suit puppet for a guy who openly admits he is going to try to fuck your wife? That’s a little much even for me. I continue to think Tom is just the tallest midget in all of this.
 

1 hour ago, A-Tex Devil said:

So every time I see or read a Jeremy Strong interview he sounds like a real life actor version of Kendall Roy.  I can see why no one could stand him.  

I see that guy walking on the Hudson River greenway occasionally. Always alone, always looking like he’s ready to jump. Intense cat.

[HamsterHookah 112]

21 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

Look, I would cut the throat of every other partner at my firm if it meant making an extra million, so I get the allure of the almighty dollar. But being an empty suit puppet for a guy who openly admits he is going to try to fuck your wife? That’s a little much even for me. I continue to think Tom is just the tallest midget in all of this.
 

I see that guy walking on the Hudson River greenway occasionally. Always alone, always looking like he’s ready to jump. Intense cat.

What makes you think Tom cares? Aren't they still technically estranged and in the middle of a divorce with a dozen of the top lawyers tied up? Before that scene, Shiv essentially came back hat-in-hand and asked if there was anything there in his heart for her and if they wanted to take a serious stab at fixing their relationship and he gave a pretty damning non-committal. 

I get that he was portrayed as a sensitive fellow early on, with his shock at the open relationship talk on his wedding night, but as he grew to be more and more disgusting in Logan's shadow and protection and along with Greg, I think he probably views Shiv as a strong play versus a person at this point.

Edited June 2, 2023 by HamsterHookah