HBO's House of the Dragon - BOOKFAGS THREAD

[Augustus 3061]

15 hours ago, NorthLoop said:

Noticed some of the illiterati talking about a dragon showdown with Aemond and Daemon. Is it that obvious? 

 

Also this is how I imagine MNLonghorn watches TV.... actually how I imagine him going through his entire life

 

The brief standoff (and it wasn't much of a standoff, at that) between Aemond and Daemon following that wholesome, loving family dinner that Viserys arranged, seems to have been taken by everyone as foreshadowing a showdown between them, and it's natural to guess that would happen astride dragons, I suppose.

 

[naija 2869]

I imagine tonight should satisfy some of the bloodlust and "nothing important has happened" whining going on in that thread

[naija 2869]

I don't understand some of the changes to the story. Why introduce reluctance when there wasn't any in the book?

[Yev Kassem 1031]

I think the show is “setting straight” the accounts from the book. Fire and Blood is essentially a collection of accounts of historical events, with very little first hand knowledge.  But I agree, it was odd to frame Aemond’s actions in the air an accident when we all know he had bad intentions with Luke. 

[NorthLoop 14218]

Really curious how they'll handle the Blood and Cheese revenge. Does HBO have the balls to put that scene in there? 

[Augustus 3061]

On 10/23/2022 at 7:58 PM, Yev Kassem said:

I think the show is “setting straight” the accounts from the book. Fire and Blood is essentially a collection of accounts of historical events, with very little first hand knowledge.  But I agree, it was odd to frame Aemond’s actions in the air an accident when we all know he had bad intentions with Luke. 

 

He might've had bad intentions but that doesn't mean he wanted to kill him or was foolish enough to do so.

It's also understandable that no one on the ground could have known what actually went on up in the air, so via the show we're just finding out Aemond didn't really intend to kill him and the two kids just lost control of their dragons, the outcome of which was pretty damned important.

It's not really a change to the story, it's what actually happened.

[WBT 20638]

It seems like the dragon trainers need to learn some positive reinforcement techniques.  Yelling "obey me" over and over isn't really working.

[Go Pokes 979]

I don't understand some of the changes to the story. Why introduce reluctance when there wasn't any in the book?

I kind of like it. The source material really doesn’t go into the characters motivation too much so the show runners have free rein to fill in the blanks. Kind of cool. The Laenor “death” was really surprising, but everybody who knew about it wasn’t talking. I’m digging it.

[Bama Chick 28596]

I agree that Aemond didn’t mean to murder Lucerys but it’s still his fault and I don’t think it changes anything from the book.

Aemond has three choices when he returns to King’s Landing -

1 - Lie and completely deny he had anything to do with Luke’s death.

2 - Tell the truth - he killed him but he didn’t intend to and confirm it was an accident.

3 - Lie and claim the kill as intentional and brag about loud and proud and let the story spread to inspire fear.

Number one won’t work - too many witnesses from Storm’s End and Borros Baratheon will completely tell anyone who will listen what happened to save his own ass.

Number two might work but he’ll be seen as incompetent by everyone on Team Green and Team Black won’t care that he says it was accidental - they won’t believe him and they’ll still be coming for his head.

So, that leaves three. Aemond will still be Enemy Number One for Team Black, Otto and Alicent will still be furious. But this option will allow him to keep his pride and won’t expose his failure.

And thus, we end up with the “true” history from the Maester, the Septon, and Mushroom - Aemond and Vhagar murdered Lucerys and Arrax over Shipbreaker Bay.


As for Blood & Cheese, I think they’ll absolutely do it and I think it will be in episode one of season two.

I think they’ll change it up a bit.

Mysaria will probably find out Larys - on Alicent’s approval - was responsible for burning down her home. And she probably lost people important to her in the fire. She’ll come to Daemon and offer her services. I don’t know if they’ll have Daemon explicitly ask for the murder of Aegon and Helaena’s son or if he’ll want Aemond or Aegon’s head when he says “A son for a son”.

(Daemon is the only character the writers have attributed bad acts to that weren’t confirmed in F&B - Rhea’s murder, strangling Rhaenerya - and they’ve softened everyone else.)

Rhaenerya definitely won’t be in on it.

I’m leaning towards Daemon wanting Aemond dead and asking Mysaria to carry out the deed. Mysaria hires Blood and Cheese and tells them that Aemond is the target but if they can’t get him, then murder any Hightower son or grandson they can find.

I can’t wait for season two! I wonder if they’ll end it with Rook’s Rest?

That, Battle of the Gullet and - of course - Battle Above the God’s Eye are going to be awesome.

I’m also curious to see what they choose as the end. I’m thinking The Hour of the Wolf and the marriage of Aegon III and Jaehaera and their ascension to the Iron Throne.

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

Has HBO hinted at what’s next? I assume A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms because it’s a novel and a completed work. 
 

A Blackfyre Rebellion show would be awesome, but probably not a wise chaser after HOTD.

I’d love a Stark/The Wall show set several thousand years before GOT. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

The rumor mill says -

-Jon Snow sequel
-HotD will be an anthology series, so after The Dance of the Dragons story is done, we could see Blackfyre Rebellion, Dunk & Egg, Aegon’s Conquest, Maegor the Cruel etc.

[kevwun 15811]

They need to do the conquest.

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

The rumor mill says -

-Jon Snow sequel
-HotD will be an anthology series, so after The Dance of the Dragons story is done, we could see Blackfyre Rebellion, Dunk & Egg, Aegon’s Conquest, Maegor the Cruel etc.

Yikes on the Jon Snow sequel. 

Oh very much hell yes on the anthology angle. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Yikes on the Jon Snow sequel. 

I mean, Kit Harrington soooooo……


I’m cool with it.

[gsoda3 3272]

just finished the book so i was an illiterati when i watched hotd. loved the book, i liked it better than the last 2 fire and ice ones.  the pacing and style is similar to dan jones's The Plantagenets, which is one of my favorites in any genre.  

 

why did the show make daemon kill rhea?  was it just to condense the timeline?  was it to add a more evil dimension to complicate his character?  

 

i wish the show had stuck to the book's descriptions of the characters (velaryons looking like targs and not black, rhaenys looking like a baratheon instead of a targ, etc).  it makes the gold/silver haired and purple eyed children of the next couple generations more important if they decide to show those events.  

 

i'd love to see a 3 part documentary starting from the conquest going through jaeharys's reign.  

 

 

[Augustus 3061]

1 hour ago, gsoda3 said:

just finished the book so i was an illiterati when i watched hotd. loved the book, i liked it better than the last 2 fire and ice ones.  the pacing and style is similar to dan jones's The Plantagenets, which is one of my favorites in any genre.  

 

why did the show make daemon kill rhea?  was it just to condense the timeline?  was it to add a more evil dimension to complicate his character?  

 

i wish the show had stuck to the book's descriptions of the characters (velaryons looking like targs and not black, rhaenys looking like a baratheon instead of a targ, etc).  it makes the gold/silver haired and purple eyed children of the next couple generations more important if they decide to show those events.  

 

i'd love to see a 3 part documentary starting from the conquest going through jaeharys's reign.  

 

 

 

Regarding Rhea, as far as the book is concerned, all we know is that she died from a riding accident, right?  

In that sense, the show didn't "make him" kill her, it just revealed what actually happened.  Everything in the book is from unreliable narrators.

[gsoda3 3272]

 
Regarding Rhea, as far as the book is concerned, all we know is that she died from a riding accident, right?  
In that sense, the show didn't "make him" kill her, it just revealed what actually happened.  Everything in the book is from unreliable narrators.

The book says she fell off her horse and hit her head, was in bed for like a week, then felt well enough to walk around but after an hour of that she fell over and died. And this entire time daemon is in the stepstones.

[RomaVicta 29946]

I had to abandon the history book.

I read two of the knight to the seven kingdoms books and they're almost like young adult reading. This is pretty shocking to me after the stellar imagination and quality of story telling in the Game of Thrones books. 

I think I bought the first four GOTR books in a package deal at Costco for like $25. I read them all back to back and still consider that easily the best bang for the buck purchase I've ever made. A lot of my life was horrible at the time. Getting lost in those novels was such a profound pleasure.

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

On 12/8/2022 at 12:58 AM, RomaVicta said:

I had to abandon the history book.

I read two of the knight to the seven kingdoms books and they're almost like young adult reading. This is pretty shocking to me after the stellar imagination and quality of story telling in the Game of Thrones books. 

I think I bought the first four GOTR books in a package deal at Costco for like $25. I read them all back to back and still consider that easily the best bang for the buck purchase I've ever made. A lot of my life was horrible at the time. Getting lost in those novels was such a profound pleasure.

Yeah, Fire & Blood is a textbook. I enjoyed it, but ASOIAF Books 1-5 are much better. Hell , the Winds of Winter sample chapters are much better. 

I’ll stick with A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms because it’s an audiobook, and I’m stuck at work. But yes, Dunk and Egg is some TV-Y7 type shit. HBO will have their work cut out for them spicing it up for premium cable television. 

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

Brief thoughts of the show after knocking out Fire & Blood: 

- I liked Season 1. Good cast.

- One of the big complaints in the illiterati thread is the show isn’t funny/doesn’t have a Tyrion or a Bronn. Uhh, what in the text is funny about a family civil war that almost eliminates a two ancient bloodlines and drives the dragons into extinction is funny? Season 1 was pretty humorless and there’s nowhere else to go but darker. 
 

- That said, Mushroom HAS to be on the show. His casting will be interesting. I think he’s the only glimmer of hope for comic relief. 
 

- I think they have to do Blood and Cheese in Episode 1 or 2 of Season 2 . The illiterati will freak the f*** out like the Red Wedding. I’d like to be surprised, qand not see it coming. Game on HBO. 
 

- I hope we get a season story arc with Cregan Stark/Jace/Sara Snow. GRRM is treating the show like settled fact, so it’ll be nice to see Jace and Sara actually wed and if Jace left a clutch of dragon eggs at Winterfell. Pretty cool to think about. 
 

 

[WBT 20638]

We're back!

I didn't quite finish my rewatch in time and just got to the premiere tonight.  Overall I liked it.  Like I said on the mouthbreather thread, it was good to open with seeing Winterfell, the Wall, and Ice again.

I didn't really like how they handled a son for a son.  IIRC in the book Daemon explicitly sent Blood and Cheese after Aegon II's heir.  The show softened thatcto protect Daemon I guess.  I also didn't like them eliminating Helaena having to make a choice and them then going against it and that driving Helaena mad.

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

17 minutes ago, WBT said:

We're back!

I didn't quite finish my rewatch in time and just got to the premiere tonight.  Overall I liked it.  Like I said on the mouthbreather thread, it was good to open with seeing Winterfell, the Wall, and Ice again.

I didn't really like how they handled a son for a son.  IIRC in the book Daemon explicitly sent Blood and Cheese after Aegon II's heir.  The show softened thatcto protect Daemon I guess.  I also didn't like them eliminating Helaena having to make a choice and them then going against it and that driving Helaena mad.

It’s brutal scene. The mouth breathers are defending the HOTD version with garded Entertainment Weekly articles. Daemon is evil, and Matt Smith is a pro. This was a showrunner choice. If Aemond is equally evil, there’s no reason to water either down. Viewers aren’t going to pick Green or Black based on those two. 

[Haphap 741]

1 hour ago, WBT said:

We're back!

I didn't quite finish my rewatch in time and just got to the premiere tonight.  Overall I liked it.  Like I said on the mouthbreather thread, it was good to open with seeing Winterfell, the Wall, and Ice again.

I didn't really like how they handled a son for a son.  IIRC in the book Daemon explicitly sent Blood and Cheese after Aegon II's heir.  The show softened thatcto protect Daemon I guess.  I also didn't like them eliminating Helaena having to make a choice and them then going against it and that driving Helaena mad.

I think they chose the path of not outrightly sending Blood and Cheese for Aegon's kids so as to add some element of surprise.  The impact will be less if the audience already knows the mission is to kill one of the kids.  Based on a lot of various reaction videos on youtube,  as soon as Blood found Cheese with Helaena, the look of horror and realization of the implication was more satisfying to see as most were not expecting the twist

Edited June 19 by Haphap

[WBT 20638]

17 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

The mouth breathers are defending the HOTD version with garded Entertainment Weekly articles

It's funny how they're always talking about articles and videos that explain the books to them but won't just read them

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

I honestly think that’s going to be it for the North on this show. Jace or another Targ don’t visit again. 

I think we’ll get a scene of Cregan marching south. I’m happy they selected an actor capable of handling the Hour of the Wolf. Cregan looks and acts hard on film. Well done. 
 

I’ve given up any illusions of the Fat Man finished ASOIAF. I hope we get historical book on the Starks, and an HBO series in our lifetimes. 

[Mr. Drummond 2199]

I was surprised they got to blood and cheese so quickly, thought we would get an episode of Jace in the north/vale.       Also wish they would have done the Helaena picking, but my wife was sufficiently upset.   

My wife "my favorite in this whole show is Princess Rhaenys"

 

well... (to myself)  get a good look, she isn't here much longer

[WBT 20638]

I thought last night was a good episode.  I initially rolled my eyes at the show creation of Rhaenyra sneaking into KL but the dialogie and acting were so good that I ended up liking it.

Alys Rivers!  I guess we're to take it that she somehow caused Daemon's vision of young Rhaenyra?

And Ulf!  We've met all of the dragonseeds now except for Nettles.

I guess Alicent's brother riding with Criston is another show creation.  Shouldn't all the Hightowers still be amassing their army in Oldtown?  I like that actor though.

I was a bit confused by the scene of Rhaenyra sending her kids to Pentos.  Did they forget to age up Joff when they aged up Jace and Luke?  Is there going to be another time jump/recasting when they bring Joff and Aegon III into the story?  Doesn't the war only last about 2 years?

I wonder how much the illiterati are clocking the mentions of Aegon II/Aemond's other brother Darryl Daeron and his dragon. It seems to me like they should have introduced him onscreen in Season 1.

How far do we think this season is going to get?  Which battles are they going to cover?  I think the Rhaenys/Corlys scenes are a pretty fair indication they're going to kill her off soon.  Will Jace be killed this season?  Daemon/Aemond?  I've kind of had in my mind the idea that a good season endpoint would be Rhaenyra taking KL with the final shot being her getting up from the throne the first time covered in bleeding cuts.

Has HBO said how many seasons total this is going to run?

Edited July 1 by WBT

[Haphap 741]

On 7/1/2024 at 7:51 AM, WBT said:

 

Has HBO said how many seasons total this is going to run?

GRRM mentioned in December they been discussing story ideas for seasons 3 and 4, this was before it was renewed for season 3 last month.  

Edited July 3 by Haphap

[WBT 20638]

Read a theory elsewhere I liked that the guy who had his hand chopped off for grabbing Alicent will become the Shepherd who leads the storming of the dragonpit.

So are we getting anither battle this season or nah?  I would think there would be one next week.  Fishfood?

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

13 minutes ago, WBT said:

Read a theory elsewhere I liked that the guy who had his hand chopped off for grabbing Alicent will become the Shepherd who leads the storming of the dragonpit.

So are we getting anither battle this season or nah?  I would think there would be one next week.  Fishfood?

Interesting theory. They were pretty deliberate showing the hand. 

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

Are people actually pissed they cut Nettles out of the show? I barely remember her from the book. Rhaena and dad Daemon teaming up to hunt Aemond and the big bitch is more interesting than Daemon teaming with some rando (dragonseed?) 

They don’t have much runway left, but I think we get the Battle of the Gullet this season. The Greens probably just made a deal with the Triarchy and desperately need to break the embargo. And Rhaena is about to ride Sheepstealer. Setting up the board for the battle. 
 

Also, Rhaenyra losing another son is a good way to end a season. The season 1 finale definitely created some buzz. 

[NorthLoop 14218]

I had remembered Nettles, but this whole time I was getting her mixed up with Mysaria.

[Haphap 741]

On 7/22/2024 at 8:14 PM, billfromlaketravis said:

Are people actually pissed they cut Nettles out of the show? I barely remember her from the book. Rhaena and dad Daemon teaming up to hunt Aemond and the big bitch is more interesting than Daemon teaming with some rando (dragonseed?) 

They don’t have much runway left, but I think we get the Battle of the Gullet this season. The Greens probably just made a deal with the Triarchy and desperately need to break the embargo. And Rhaena is about to ride Sheepstealer. Setting up the board for the battle. 
 

Also, Rhaenyra losing another son is a good way to end a season. The season 1 finale definitely created some buzz. 

Battle of the Gullet will likely be early season 3.  The fall of Kingslanding will end this season.  It alluded from an interview that they are switching the two events around.  

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

Is there a backstory on why GRRM is speaking out publicly against the show cutting Nettles and Sheepstealer being in the Vale? It’s been maybe a year, and I don’t even remember Nettles in Fire & Blood. 
 

Of all the things for him to get pissed about in film adaptions, this is strange. 

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

The Fat Man says he won’t be working on Season 3. Here we go, again. 
 

 

[kevwun 15811]

He's already finished this story though.

[WBT 20638]

On 7/28/2024 at 10:54 PM, billfromlaketravis said:

Is there a backstory on why GRRM is speaking out publicly against the show cutting Nettles and Sheepstealer being in the Vale? It’s been maybe a year, and I don’t even remember Nettles in Fire & Blood. 
 

Of all the things for him to get pissed about in film adaptions, this is strange. 

He doesn't like people changing his shit?  Based on the original show I don't blame him.  Guess he likes the cash though.

5 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

The Fat Man says he won’t be working on Season 3. Here we go, again. 
 

 

See above

[HouTex 1887]

Reading the other thread, it seems we have two more seasons.  This thing will move very slowly.  I thought this season would end with Reyneara (sp?) taking the throne in Kingslanding.  They might drag that a full season.

[WBT 20638]

I'm not sure how they're going to wrap it up in 2 seasons, especially at the pace they've been going.

I would assume the gullet is in Episode 1 of next season now.

How long are they going to go?  I'd like to see some of the crazy shit after Aegon III becomes king: the hour of the wolf, the parade of possible wives where he picks a 6 year old, the fall of the Rogare bank, Sandoq the Shadow, and the firing of his hand and small council on his 16th birthday.  I doubt we get any of that with the news of only 2 more seasons.  It would have required another big time jump anyway.

 

[Dark Horse 2284]

I think they end with the hour of the wolf. 

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

15 minutes ago, Dark Horse said:

I think they end with the hour of the wolf. 

For sure the coolest way to do it. 

[WBT 20638]

One more thing.  While I thought Daemon's weirwood tree vision looked pretty cool, I don't really like how much they keep tying this show into the soiaf.  Last season they made up the prophecy being passed down from targ to targ that George never got around to mentioning and now Daemon has to get in on it with this vision.  Have some confidence in the story you're telling and make us care about this battle for the throne for its own sake.

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

1 minute ago, WBT said:

One more thing.  While I thought Daemon's weirwood tree vision looked pretty cool, I don't really like how much they keep tying this show into the soiaf.  Last season they made up the prophecy being passed down from targ to targ that George never got around to mentioning and now Daemon has to get in on it with this vision.  Have some confidence in the story you're telling and make us care about this battle for the throne for its own sake.

The vision gives me hope for a Bloodraven/Blackfyre Rebellion(s?) series. I’m fine with connecting the shows if we get that.