Military facing manpower shortages. Branches take different approaches...

[Guest]

Army Swiftly Backpedals on Policy Dropping High School Diploma Requirement

 

 

 

 

After only a week, the Army has swiftly reversed a new policy that would have allowed potential recruits to enlist into the force without a high school diploma or GED, according to an internal memo reviewed by Military.com and confirmed by a spokesperson.

The Army, along with the other services, faces an ongoing crisis to fill in the ranks amid a convergence of issues, including an increasingly competitive civilian job market and the military losing some public awareness in the absence of a major conflict. So far, the Army has only hit about 40% of its recruiting goals this year.

On June 23, the service said that it would drop the requirement for completing high school under the condition that enlistees quickly ship out to boot camp, setting a deadline of Oct. 1 to begin training.

 

However, the move was met with some mockery online and accusations of it being a desperate measure, lowering standards to fill in the ranks wherever the Army could.

"Some people have frankly become very self-conscious of the news coverage," an Army official with direct knowledge of the policy change told Military.com.

The service has relatively few options for changes it can implement quickly, so officials have chipped away at the margins where they can.

The potential recruits who would have been exempted from the high school requirement had to be 18 and score at least a 50 on the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery, or ASVAB, an SAT-style quiz to measure a potential recruit's academic ability. That was a higher threshold than normal, with a 31 being the minimum score for anyone else. Scoring at least a 50 would likely qualify an individual for a healthy roster of the Army's jobs.

A lack of education plays a relatively small role in disqualifying potential recruits, with most issues related to minor criminal infractions and intense scrutiny on past minor medical and mental health issues. Only about one-fourth of young Americans are even eligible to serve, with the top problem being obesity.

Multiple sources with direct knowledge on lifting the requirement for a high school diploma or GED said that policy makers were concerned about legitimate reasons a candidate might have not finished their schooling, and raising the bar on the entrance exam was a good control factor to not lower education standards. One Army official told Military.com the lift on requiring diplomas could return.

"A score in the 50th percentile on the ASVAB is a good score," the Army official, who spoke to Military.com on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the press on the subject, said. "So, if someone doesn't have a GED or high school diploma, but they score well on the ASVAB, meet all other requirements, then military service could potentially be a great option for their future."

Army officials have made a number of small adjustments to make recruiting easier where they can without having negative impacts on the quality of soldiers enlisting. In a sign of the need for capable recruits, the service is offering up to $50,000 enlistment bonuses, its highest ever, and allowing recruits to pick their first duty station with some limitations.

This was on top of existing benefits that have been key for recruitment for decades, including the GI Bill, relatively cheap and easy access to health care and VA home loans -- all of which are still generally more generous than most entry level jobs for people without college degrees.

The Army has also picked low-hanging fruit such as relaxing its tattoo policies, which is expected to impact only a few hundred recruits per year. In an interview with Task & Purpose, Army Secretary Christine Wormuth has also expressed concerns that negative media attention on scandals and issues in the force, including sexual assault and harassment, suicide and other quality-of-life problems faced by the rank and file, may be impacting recruiting.

 

Meanwhile, in the Navy, they seem to be taking their first steps towards not letting anyone out( at least not early.) This went out to enlisted folks today:

Edited June 30, 2022 by slorch

[bluto 4,947]

police forces are about to get even shittier somehow 

[BabaYaga 15,371]

Methinks the physical requirements are weeding a hell of a lot more fatties out of service than having a diploma/GED

[Mother mopar 3,342]

I retired from the AF earlier this year and we are overmanned in many career fields after covid patriotism (nobody wanted to get out) and years of fighting in the middle east. Based on the forecast to 2026 they are cutting E-5,6,&7 slots to pull forward to E-2,3 &4s.

They are forcing people out with the lowest promotion rates going back to the mid-70s. It is tough nowadays and combined with the job market people in IT, contracting, and acquisition-based careers are punching at an alarming rate to enjoy the money on the other side of the fence.

[Brisketexan 105,569]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

Methinks the physical requirements are weeding a hell of a lot more fatties out of service than having a diploma/GED

Counterpoint:

Edited June 30, 2022 by Brisketexan

[Gil Bang 26,099]

The Army requires a 10 year contract for aviators now.  They are tired of training pilots for the airlines. 

[Mother mopar 3,342]

The Army requires a 10 year contract for aviators now.  They are tired of training pilots for the airlines. 

AF is the same way, and when that 10 years is up they try to keep you by way of a career bonus that can be $260k.

[Harrison Bergeron 1,798]

53 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

The Army requires a 10 year contract for aviators now.  They are tired of training pilots for the airlines. 

Trigger warning:

Spoiler

Every few years someone gets mad about this ... I have been told only the Navy has "aviators" and the other branches have pilots.

Yeah, I'm sure that's the problem ... nothing else comes to mind.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Harrison Bergeron

[ztejas 43,741]

3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Methinks the physical requirements are weeding a hell of a lot more fatties out of service than having a diploma/GED

I don't think the country has gotten significantly fatter in the last ~10 years.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Methinks the physical requirements are weeding a hell of a lot more fatties out of service than having a diploma/GED

at age 20, if you can't pass the PFT while hung over or still drunk after not having slept the night before; you are one fat, lazy, and/or unfit POS.

but hell, the basic physical fitness test is even easier than that.

Edited June 30, 2022 by slorch

[Paco 1,934]

at age 20, if you can't pass the PFT while hung over or still drunk after not having slept the night before; you are one fat, lazy, and/or unfit POS.
but hell, the basic physical fitness test is even easier than that.

It's been 30+ years, but if I remember it was three pullups, maybe 20 situps, and a leisurely stroll around the parking lot of the recruiters office.

[Gil Bang 26,099]

Just now, Covri said:

This thread should be in the CR so the usuals commenting can be engaged in honestly why our youth don’t want to sign up to fight for our country over the last decade or next.

There's no mystery.  Unemployment is VERY low.  Dumbshits can get jobs that pay 20 bucks or so an hour.  That wasn't the case pre-covid. 

 

Here's what my hard-charging, driven, soldier son told me:  a lot of people join the military because they want to serve their country, have an adventure, etc.   A lot of others join the military because there is absolutely nothing better for them to do.  Some rust-belt dipshit in a dying town?   Well, the plant where dad worked, and grampa worked before him, well, it's been closed for a decade or two.  Those good jobs don't exist anymore.  So, the military will out a roof over the heads of you, your fat, ugly, trashy wife, and your three brats. 

[gmr548 16,635]

Both one of the dumbest and one of the smartest individuals I’ve ever known are/were in the Army, so this hits close to home.

[Gil Bang 26,099]

15 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

There's no mystery.  Unemployment is VERY low.  Dumbshits can get jobs that pay 20 bucks or so an hour.  That wasn't the case pre-covid. 

 

Here's what my hard-charging, driven, soldier son told me:  a lot of people join the military because they want to serve their country, have an adventure, etc.   A lot of others join the military because there is absolutely nothing better for them to do.  Some rust-belt dipshit in a dying town?   Well, the plant where dad worked, and grampa worked before him, well, it's been closed for a decade or two.  Those good jobs don't exist anymore.  So, the military will out a roof over the heads of you, your fat, ugly, trashy wife, and your three brats. 

By the way, for the hypothetical guy that I'm discussing above; shitty base housing will also be the nicest place that he and his wife have ever lived. 

[Zepol87 9,263]

42 minutes ago, Paco said:

52 minutes ago, slorch said:

at age 20, if you can't pass the PFT while hung over or still drunk after not having slept the night before; you are one fat, lazy, and/or unfit POS.
but hell, the basic physical fitness test is even easier than that.

It's been 30+ years, but if I remember it was three pullups, maybe 20 situps, and a leisurely stroll around the parking lot of the recruiters office.

Yea the PT test is complete bullshit and stupid easy in boot camp for most people but the BMI shit is what hurt some people that joined with me. I was 6' 3" 195 and a fucking stick and got told to watch gaining anything before MEPS. Once in though the fatties were everywhere

[Guest]

Just now, Zepol87 said:

Yea the PT test is complete bullshit and stupid easy in boot camp for most people but the BMI shit is what hurt some people that joined with me. I was 6' 3" 195 and a fucking stick and got told to watch gaining anything before MEPS. Once in though the fatties were everywhere

were you "double-rats" guy?   I always thought that shit was cruel while the "diet privates" got reduced/ limited chow.

I gained 30# in boot camp.  Drill Instructors didn't believe me until they looked at my ht/wt from processing.  Going to Gil's post above, it was better consistently nutritious food than I'd ever had, and I PT'ed like a motherfucker.  That and I was a late bloomer, physically.

[blacklab 11,994]

I also gained 30 pounds in boot camp going from 6’3 130 to 160. Gained another 20 in A school. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, blacklab said:

I also gained 30 pounds in boot camp going from 6’3 130 to 160. Gained another 20 in A school. 

That's normal in the Navy though...

[Gil Bang 26,099]

6 minutes ago, blacklab said:

I also gained 30 pounds in boot camp going from 6’3 130 to 160. Gained another 20 in A school. 

What is A school?  

[Zepol87 9,263]

9 minutes ago, slorch said:

were you "double-rats" guy?   I always thought that shit was cruel while the "diet privates" got reduced/ limited chow.

I gained 30# in boot camp.  Drill Instructors didn't believe me until they looked at my ht/wt from processing.  Going to Gil's post above, it was better consistently nutritious food than I'd ever had, and I PT'ed like a motherfucker.  That and I was a late bloomer, physically.

Haha yep, snuck alot of peanut butter into the barracks. I lost some weight then but not even close to 30 lbs but I gained in A school but I was lifting alot of weights and playing basketball constantly

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Gil Bang said:

What is A school?  

MOS school/ job training.  AIT in some fashion or other.

[ztejas 43,741]

7 minutes ago, blacklab said:

I also gained 30 pounds in boot camp going from 6’3 130 to 160. Gained another 20 in A school. 

God damn. I was always skinny growing up but 135 was the least I weighed at 6'3" and I had some weird health stuff going on. I was like 145 going into college and probably 180 18 months after that. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

Why can't they take the obese ones and get them in shape through boot camp and drop them if they don't make weight?

Also, 6'3" 130 wtf was wrong with you?

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Why can't they take the obese ones and get them in shape through boot camp and drop them if they don't make weight?

 

That does happen, a lot; and that's kind of the point.  If you can't get there through the way things are currently set; you're already pretty far out there within the parameters of decent health for a 20-25 YO.

[Mother mopar 3,342]

Why can't they take the obese ones and get them in shape through boot camp and drop them if they don't make weight?
Also, 6'3" 130 wtf was wrong with you?

The AF does, if you fail 4 PT assessments in a 24-month period you will be discharged...95% of the time.

The AF just lowered their PT standards to near nothing last year. It's ridiculously easy and yet we still have people who can't pass. I'm 6'4" 255 and would pass it without any issues before they lowered standards.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

3 minutes ago, slorch said:

That does happen, a lot; and that's kind of the point.  If you can't get there through the way things are currently set; you're already pretty far out there within the parameters of decent health for a 20-25 YO.

Meaning when they say only 1 in 4 are fit to serve, that's including the fatties that have a chance of shedding the weight? Or 1-4 currently meet requirements and some portion of the other 3 are taken on flyers?

Either way...damn 'Merica.

[ztejas 43,741]

5 minutes ago, Mother mopar said:

I'm 6'4" 255 and would pass it without any issues before they lowered standards.

How big a boy are ya? 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Meaning when they say only 1 in 4 are fit to serve, that's including the fatties that have a chance of shedding the weight? Or 1-4 currently meet requirements and some portion of the other 3 are taken on flyers?

Either way...damn 'Merica.

Yes.

Will add one caveat, counter to what I posted above related to obesity,  that just because you are physically unqualified to serve doesn't necessarily mean you're a fatbody.  Could be severe allergies or scoliosis or some shit.

Edited July 1, 2022 by slorch

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

Well we know there's no such thing as being too skinny to serve.

[Gil Bang 26,099]

29 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Why can't they take the obese ones and get them in shape through boot camp and drop them if they don't make weight?

Also, 6'3" 130 wtf was wrong with you?

When my son was working with the recruiter (he was in excellent shape, worked in a lumberyard and went to the gym) the recruiting office was holding "get in shape" sessions at 0500 every morning.  They were out there with the prospective recruits, helping them have a chance to succeed. 

[South Austin 52,686]

31 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Why can't they take the obese ones and get them in shape through boot camp and drop them if they don't make weight?

[Gil Bang 26,099]

4 minutes ago, slorch said:

Yes.

Will add one caveat, that just because you are physically unqualified to serve doesn't necessarily mean you're a fatbody.  Could be severe allergies or scoliosis or some shit.

or, a cyst on your ass or bone spurs (no CR)

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Well we know there's no such thing as being too skinny to serve.

My oldest almost certainly got his year in prep school, as opposed to regular appointment to USMA out of high school because of being 6-4, 160;  and I'm pretty damned sure he didn't weigh THAT much.

If you're skinny, you're gonna struggle too.  Luckily for him, he filled out a little in that prep school year.

Edited July 1, 2022 by slorch

[Zepol87 9,263]

7 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

When my son was working with the recruiter (he was in excellent shape, worked in a lumberyard and went to the gym) the recruiting office was holding "get in shape" sessions at 0500 every morning.  They were out there with the prospective recruits, helping them have a chance to succeed. 

Yep we did that weekly, met up at a park and ran and worked out with the recruiters. There were big boys there on like 8 month plans to lose the weight and then sign in. Not many stuck with it though

[TwiceHorn 31,677]

1 hour ago, blacklab said:

I also gained 30 pounds in boot camp going from 6’3 130 to 160. Gained another 20 in A school. 

Gat damn.  I thought I was a stick at 6-1 165.

Guys I worked with called me Bic.  

The baseball coach would yell, hey, Twice, where are you?  Oh, you turned sideways for a minute, I couldn't see you.

Edited July 1, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Zepol87 9,263]

^^yea makes my 195 comment look stupid but I was pretty skinny. It was then I learned to hate BMI 

[Sawbonz 27,776]

Why tf is covri negging everyone in this thread?

[Willfully Horn 8,087]

I am surprised that relaxing tattoo requirements only affects a few hundred people a year. 

[BillyGoatHill 4,331]

20 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Well we know there's no such thing as being too skinny to serve.

All my cousin ever wanted to do was serve in the Army the way his Dad, an Uncle and his Grandfather had done. It took him three times of going to the recruiter/ in processing center because he was too light for his height. The third time, before going in he ate about 6-7 bananas and drank a gallon of water before going in to be weighed.... he made it by a lb. before having to run to the bathroom.

Like others, I gained 30 lbs my first yr in. All muscle due to the PT and running that I had to do (which was a rarity in the AF). 

[BillyGoatHill 4,331]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Why tf is covri negging everyone in this thread?

Call of Duty is different and has no weight/height parameters? 

[Willfully Horn 8,087]

30 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

or, a cyst on your ass or bone spurs (no CR)

Flat feet kept my father in law out of WWII. He carried shame the rest of his life. And the nickname, “Duck.”

Edited July 1, 2022 by Willfully Horn

[Sawbonz 27,776]

30 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Well we know there's no such thing as being too skinny to serve.

[Guest]

So the other side of this discussion is why you did you do your 20 or bail upon completing your contract.  For me it was having  served my time for college money, and just being done with some of the military culture.  There are definitely trade offs, and I didn't hate it too badly, as both of my sons also served.  There is virtually nothing they could have told me, this side of stupid money that would have ,ade me want to re-enlist/ extend..  Both of my kids are the same way.  Glad we did it, but no way are we signing up for more.  I am not sure the youngest is certified "glad he did it,"  LOL

[ztejas 43,741]

11 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Why tf is covri negging everyone in this thread?

He wanted to turn this into a CR thread then he doxxed my first name (which I don't give a fuck about) and a mod cleaned up some comments. 

C'est la vie. 

[Zepol87 9,263]

8 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Flat feet kept my father in law out of WWII. He carried shame the rest of his life. And the nickname, “Duck.”

I got delayed because I had a small wart on my elbow. Recruiter took me to the Dr to get it taken off. Felt like a leper

Edited July 1, 2022 by Zepol87

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

17 minutes ago, BillyGoatHill said:

All my cousin ever wanted to do was serve in the Army the way his Dad, an Uncle and his Grandfather had done. It took him three times of going to the recruiter/ in processing center because he was too light for his height. The third time, before going in he ate about 6-7 bananas and drank a gallon of water before going in to be weighed.... he made it by a lb. before having to run to the bathroom.

Like others, I gained 30 lbs my first yr in. All muscle due to the PT and running that I had to do (which was a rarity in the AF). 

Well now you got me curious...if 6'3" 130 ain't too skinny, what is? Any skinnier than that and your body is basically struggling to stay alive right?*

*I am not a doctor

[ztejas 43,741]

4 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Well now you got me curious...if 6'3" 130 ain't too skinny, what is? Any skinnier than that and your body is basically struggling to stay alive right?*

*I am not a doctor

Yeah anything less than that is sickly. Not sure 130 is particularly healthy to begin with. 

[BillyGoatHill 4,331]

18 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Well now you got me curious...if 6'3" 130 ain't too skinny, what is? Any skinnier than that and your body is basically struggling to stay alive right?*

*I am not a doctor

That was my cousin, not me. 1976 ? ish.... he was definitely around 6'2- 6'3 and  definitely under 130 lbs. If he turned sideways and stuck his tongue out, his shadow looked like a zipper. Super skinny dude until he was able to put some weight on in the Army. Still thin today though.

Got in and was later recruited by SF due to his smarts. Passed Q course and was later a part of a detail for Al Gore's advance team. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by BillyGoatHill

[BillyGoatHill 4,331]

30 minutes ago, ztejas said:

He wanted to turn this into a CR thread then he doxxed my first name (which I don't give a fuck about) and a mod cleaned up some comments. 

C'est la vie. 

Is covri this guy....?

 

 

[ztejas 43,741]

4 minutes ago, BillyGoatHill said:

Is covri this guy....?

 

 

No I don't think he's that funny.