The destruction of America's public education system

[pyrohornIII 4,846]

21 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This is how America works.  Many other countries like us (Europe) are WAY more open about sex and I happen to think it is the right way to do things.  They do have a thousand years on us.

That's pretty much what the Kama Sutra is about.  

Quote

The Kama Sutra (/ˈkɑːmə ˈsuːtrə/; Sanskrit: कामसूत्र, pronunciation (help·info), Kāma-sūtra; lit. 'Principles of Love') is an ancient Indian^[1][2] Sanskrit text on sexuality, eroticism and emotional fulfillment in life.^[3][4][5] Attributed to Vātsyāyana,^[6] the Kama Sutra is neither exclusively nor predominantly a sex manual on sex positions,^[3] but rather was written as a guide to the art of living well, the nature of love, finding a life partner, maintaining one's love life, and other aspects pertaining to pleasure-oriented faculties of human life.^[3][7][8]   -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kama_Sutra

Why on earth would we want to teach our kids these things when we can control them much better with ignorance and guilt?

 

 

[Surly Bevo 25,732]

I’m trying to figure out how viewing that would actually harm a high school kid.

It might make them think about sex. Which no high school kid would ever do.

[safe sex 12,000]

It might even make them think about...gay sex.

[tx 3 putt 78,675]

26 minutes ago, TexPx said:

I’m trying to figure out how viewing that would actually harm a high school kid.

The T-shirt and leading kids down the uncle boobs path !!!

 

i agree with comic, nothing wrong with staying between the right pair of legs for a long long time 

Edited January 30, 2023 by tx 3 putt

[Asu2215 268]

2 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

That's pretty much what the Kama Sutra is about.  

Why on earth would we want to teach our kids these things when we can control them much better with ignorance and guilt?

 

 

Maybe we should focus on reading and writing. And before you ask, the answer is no, our educational system can't multitask. 

[tx 3 putt 78,675]

honest question, how many kids are actually checking out any books and reading them ?

[MaybeACoordinator 8,350]

Interesting that the pillow princess's* name is Scylla -- in Greek mythology Scylla and Charybdis were two dangerous navigational hazards next to each other in the Mediterranean through which mariners had to often pass. Without further context I can't say much more about that graphic novel.

*I just learned that term from my bi little sister. I had told her that my first wife once told me she would have preferred to have been with women but she could not abide the idea of eating pussy. So my sister told me there was a term for women like her that liked to receive but not give oral sex.

On another note relevant to this thread, one of my HS buddies had a very hot girlfriend all through school. His parents and her mom (single mother) mutually agreed that their kids could fuck each other's brains out all through HS. (They arranged birth control) Although he was far from the sharpest Ginsu in the rack, my buddy wound up graduating summa cum laude from our academically rigorous HS, never got in any trouble on weekends (because he had other things to do that didn't include carousing while chasing girls), and while they did break up freshman year of college, the guy is now an attorney. His parents were not hippies or anything like that. Far from it. They were old-school Texans who just happened to have very, very enlightened views on teen sexuality.

Edited January 30, 2023 by MaybeACoordinator

[tx 3 putt 78,675]

that guy lived the DREAM in hs

[DigglerontheHoof 21,550]

14 hours ago, Macanudo said:

Part of me feels that way too.   The internet has changed everything.   But a part of me also wonders about books in middle schools that discuss blowjobs.   That was another one talked about.   

I'm no prude.    I know my daughters were hearing about this stuff younger than I was.   But do we need to make it easier?

 

My friends and I were talking about getting blowjobs in 7th grade...this was 1978.  You think a middle schooler doesn't know what head is and that they want to give/get it?  "Protecting" kids is fucking hilarious.  They know as much about sex as you do (or they think they do) by high school as their parents. 

So, obviously, the best thing to do is take away all reading material about sex and pretend it doesn't happen until Jebus says to do it in marriage.  JFC, I fucking hate Christians. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by DigglerontheHoof

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

My friends and I were talking about getting blowjobs in 7th grade...this was 1978.  You think a middle schooler doesn't know what head is and that they want to give/get it?  "Protecting" kids is fucking hilarious.  They know as much about sex as you do (or they think they do) by high school as their parents. 

So, obviously, the best thing to do is take away all reading material about sex and pretend it doesn't happen until Jebus says to do it in marriage.  JFC, I fucking hate Christians. 

Yeah.  Just leave the Penthouses out on the coffee table for your 12 year old daughters.

It proves how enlightened you are.

Edited January 30, 2023 by slorch

[DigglerontheHoof 21,550]

3 minutes ago, slorch said:

Yeah.  Just leave the Penthouses out on the coffee table for your 12 year old daughters.

It proves how enlightened you are.

A self-righteous "Christian" right on time. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

A self-righteous "Christian" right on time. 

Nope.  Challenging your logic...and your parenting advice.

It's an easy out for you to blame those Christians, when what you are supporting is fucking stupid to the point of not just being negligent, but damaging.

.

Edited January 30, 2023 by slorch

[DigglerontheHoof 21,550]

2 minutes ago, slorch said:

Nope.  Challenging your logic...and your parenting advice.

.

Not a parent but have 5 nieces who all had very open and direct conversations w/ their parents about sex towards the end of elementary school.  By 6th grade they all knew about contraception, homosexuality, and everything else that would make them responsible sexual beings.  

The three oldest have graduated from college and are now married w/ kids (no surprise pregnancies), the second to youngest just graduated college w/ a finance degree and the youngest will graduate w/ honors w/ a biology degree in 2.5 years.  Having them armed w/ sexual knowledge kept them from fucking up their lives. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,928]

8 hours ago, TexPx said:

I’m trying to figure out how viewing that would actually harm a high school kid.

I’m trying to figure out how it would help them to “examine their feelings.” If that book had been present in my school, my friends and I would’ve checked it out, passed it around, and behaved very immaturely.

And I came from a medical family. We used the terms penis and vagina, my mom told us about how sex worked at a very young age. I was 5, my older siblings were 7 and 8. We knew about birth control. My mom was on the pill. I remember overhearing my sister telling our mom when she was in junior high about one of her friends at school who was masturbating. Sex wasn’t a taboo subject in our home. We were pretty enlightened about it.

Now, I can’t speak for young lesbian women. But as a young straight man, I don’t see how similar heterosexual material would’ve helped me at all, or made my first sexual experience any less clumsy and awkward. Or made it last as long as it takes you to read this post. I think you teach the mechanics of how things work and then let people figure it out for themselves. I think you can affirm that if you’re born homosexual then that’s okay and perfectly natural. I don’t think we need to show those children pictures of people having gay sex in order to get the message across. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,928]

53 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Not a parent but have 5 nieces who all had very open and direct conversations w/ their parents about sex towards the end of elementary school.  By 6th grade they all knew about contraception, homosexuality, and everything else that would make them responsible sexual beings.  

The three oldest have graduated from college and are now married w/ kids (no surprise pregnancies), the second to youngest just graduated college w/ a finance degree and the youngest will graduate w/ honors w/ a biology degree in 2.5 years.  Having them armed w/ sexual knowledge kept them from fucking up their lives. 

Did they need to read picture books in school that showed people engaged in sex acts in order to become the stable, responsible, sexually enlightened people they are today?

[Neonmoon 38,130]

2 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I’m trying to figure out how it would help them to “examine their feelings.” If that book had been present in my school, my friends and I would’ve checked it out, passed it around, and behaved very immaturely.

And I came from a medical family. We used the terms penis and vagina, my mom told us about how sex worked at a very young age. I was 5, my older siblings were 7 and 8. We knew about birth control. My mom was on the pill. I remember overhearing my sister telling our mom when she was in junior high about one of her friends at school who was masturbating. Sex wasn’t a taboo subject in our home. We were pretty enlightened about it.

Now, I can’t speak for young lesbian women. But as a young straight man, I don’t see how similar heterosexual material would’ve helped me at all, or made my first sexual experience any less clumsy and awkward. Or made it last as long as it takes you to read this post. I think you teach the mechanics of how things work and then let people figure it out for themselves. I think you can affirm that if you’re born homosexual then that’s okay and perfectly natural. I don’t think we need to show those children pictures of people having gay sex in order to get the message across. 

You’re letting your experience cloud your judgment. You can’t see how it would help because in your experience, you would have acted immaturely if exposed to similar heterosexual material. First off, maybe an explicit novel would have helped you feel less awkward or last longer, or prepared you emotionally for that experience. Maybe not, but if someone was struggling with it, they could read the material and have their feelings validated. Now, unlike heterosexuals in society, homosexuals and lesbians are told their experiences are wrong and sinful, not only that, so bad they’re not allowed to do them, express them, or all books about them are banned or illegal. Did that happen in your experience? We’re you told growing up that men having sex with a woman should be criminalized? Maybe ideas like that being talked about in society give gay teenagers anxiety, and having material that normalizes their experience, and calms any anxiety would be beneficial.

[tchookem 3,968]

I’m trying to figure out how viewing that would actually harm a high school kid.

Because kids learn better from the porn they find in the woods.

[DigglerontheHoof 21,550]

3 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Did they need to read picture books in school that showed people engaged in sex acts in order to become the stable, responsible, sexually enlightened people they are today?

Not sure, but knowing the liberal ways of my sister, wouldn't be surprised.  Whatever they did, it worked for them.  Then again, they aren't in a cult. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,928]

5 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

You’re letting your experience cloud your judgment. You can’t see how it would help because in your experience, you would have acted immaturely if exposed to similar heterosexual material. First off, maybe an explicit novel would have helped you feel less awkward or last longer, or prepared you emotionally for that experience. Maybe not, but if someone was struggling with it, they could read the material and have their feelings validated. Now, unlike heterosexuals in society, homosexuals and lesbians are told their experiences are wrong and sinful, not only that, so bad they’re not allowed to do them, express them, or all books about them are banned or illegal. Did that happen in your experience? We’re you told growing up that men having sex with a woman should be criminalized? Maybe ideas like that being talked about in society give gay teenagers anxiety, and having material that normalizes their experience, and calms any anxiety would be beneficial.

No, nothing was going to prepare me for the excitement of experiencing actual insertion for the first time. I knew how to masturbate. I’d seen people engaging in sexual intercourse. Looking at it, studying it, thinking about it..A LOT...nothing really prepares you for that first time. And that’s okay. Where does it say that I have to last an hour and give her multiple orgasms before I finish my first time at bat? Young sex is supposed to be clumsy and awkward. That’s just part of the process.

And the problem with homosexual kids being told that it’s bad is the fact that they’re told it’s bad, not that they can’t see anyone else doing it. How about we stop telling them it’s bad? Shouldn’t that be sufficient? When it comes to performing the act, homosexuals have an advantage over heterosexuals because they already own the necessary equipment and can practice on themselves. They already know which buttons to push. Teach the children that about 10% of the population is born gay, it’s normal and perfectly natural, and leave it at that. I don’t think kids need to be exposed in school to images of people engaging in the sex act in order to teach them that it’s normal and okay. The reason the Monty Python sex ed sketch is funny is because it’s completely absurd. You’re not supposed to watch it and think, “Yes! That’s what we need to do in order to raise healthy, well adjusted young men and women.”

[DigglerontheHoof 21,550]

6 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

The reason the Monty Python sex ed sketch is funny is because it’s completely absurd. You’re not supposed to watch it and think, “Yes! That’s what we need to do in order to raise healthy, well adjusted young men and women.”

haha, holy shit, it was absurd b/c it was a live demonstration of sex by an uptight school master and the kids were bored by it, not b/c sex education is absurd.   JFC

[Neonmoon 38,130]

16 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

No, nothing was going to prepare me for the excitement of experiencing actual insertion for the first time. I knew how to masturbate. I’d seen people engaging in sexual intercourse. Looking at it, studying it, thinking about it..A LOT...nothing really prepares you for that first time. And that’s okay. Where does it say that I have to last an hour and give her multiple orgasms before I finish my first time at bat? Young sex is supposed to be clumsy and awkward. That’s just part of the process.

And the problem with homosexual kids being told that it’s bad is the fact that they’re told it’s bad, not that they can’t see anyone else doing it. How about we stop telling them it’s bad? Shouldn’t that be sufficient? When it comes to performing the act, homosexuals have an advantage over heterosexuals because they already own the necessary equipment and can practice on themselves. They already know which buttons to push. Teach the children that about 10% of the population is born gay, it’s normal and perfectly natural, and leave it at that. I don’t think kids need to be exposed in school to images of people engaging in the sex act in order to teach them that it’s normal and okay. The reason the Monty Python sex ed sketch is funny is because it’s completely absurd. You’re not supposed to watch it and think, “Yes! That’s what we need to do in order to raise healthy, well adjusted young men and women.”

My apologies. I assumed you were going to read and understand what I wrote. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,728]

11 hours ago, Macanudo said:

Ok.  You tell me.... is this appropriate for a high school library?

I’m sure that 95% of parents would not want their high school “children” to see this but they also don’t want to believe that their child watched porn before they were 10.

Us old folk might be shocked at this example because we can’t imagine seeing that in our high school library in the 70s, 80s, or 90s but this is nothing in terms of what kids see today on their own. It’s probably better to show them realistic situations and relationships, especially for people that don’t fit the norm of a conservative community.

[WhatTheBuck 28,928]

28 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

haha, holy shit, it was absurd b/c it was a live demonstration of sex by an uptight school master and the kids were bored by it, not b/c sex education is absurd.   JFC

Wrong. Google “reductio ad absurdum.” They’re taking the picture book concept to its logical extreme. The Pythons didn’t conceive the sketch by imagining what if students were bored by a physical demonstration of the sex act. It’s about the absurdity of demonstrating the physical sex act live and in person as part of a sex ed class. Sex Ed is a science class. It’s not Phys Ed or Home Ec. Teach the kids what all the parts do. You don’t have to teach them how to stimulate a woman’s clitoris or how a man can be brought to orgasm by massaging the prostate. 

[Macanudo 13,318]

Buck is explaining this better than I was.   Normalizing and accepting LGTB teens is a good thing.   Accepting and acknowledging that teenagers have sex is a good thing.   

[WhatTheBuck 28,928]

36 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

My apologies. I assumed you were going to read and understand what I wrote. 

I did. Maybe you didn’t write what you intended to say. I shortened “homosexuals and lesbians are told their experiences are wrong and sinful, not only that, so bad they’re not allowed to do them, express them, or all books about them are banned or illegal” to a generalized expression of them being told it’s bad. I assumed you’d get that. So when I say we shouldn’t tell them it’s bad, I meant we shouldn’t do all those things you said. That’s the problem that needs to be fixed. Fix the people teaching our kids the wrong messages about sexuality. The problem isn’t that our schools have been lacking the necessary picture books showing sex acts that young people need to see in order to grow into healthy adults. You’re going to have a really hard time convincing me that the absence of graphic novels that show one woman going down on another woman is a problem in our educational system that needs to be corrected.

There was one openly gay guy in my high school. He took a lot of verbal abuse from the jocks. Credit to him, he stood up for himself and didn’t take their shit. To my knowledge, no one ever physically assaulted him. And as far as I know he never had a boyfriend. He seemed pretty comfortable about who he was. I think the problem was with the assholes who were picking on him. I don’t think having a book in the library that showed pictures of two men in a loving, committed relationship having anal sex was going to improve the situation at all. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,728]

I've noticed a trend where conservatives state the purpose of K-12 schools is reading, writing and arithmetic. Two points that I would say about that. On average, states with a heavy conservative base have a worst education score than those with a liberal base.  Second, I'm fairly certain that we should not focus on a 1930s curriculum in 2023.

To be fair most inner city schools, with liberal leadership, are failing as well so results are not just about political leanings. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

 We simply cannot have that graphic novel depicting lesbian sex serving as a GATEWAY DRUG into Greek mythology because those Greeks, foundational in the Western canon of literature, were off the charts when it came to getting it on...oh wait....

 

 

7 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Interesting that the pillow princess's* name is Scylla -- in Greek mythology Scylla and Charybdis were two dangerous navigational hazards next to each other in the Mediterranean through which mariners had to often pass. Without further context I can't say much more about that graphic novel.

*I just learned that term from my bi little sister. I had told her that my first wife once told me she would have preferred to have been with women but she could not abide the idea of eating pussy. So my sister told me there was a term for women like her that liked to receive but not give oral sex.

Seriously though and strangely coincidental to the last few pages topically, I was chatting with a friend recently and she used the phrase between a rock and a hard place and did not know the origin of the phrase or the story. Guess no one has time for The Odyssey anymore or ever listened to The Police or any of the other frequent references and show the least shred of curiosity about the names.

I will say, my children were precocious readers and so we did monitor some of what they were reading and had frank discussions with them regarding the human body and sexuality. They attended school with children whose parents thought the Harry Potter books were dangerous because...magic. I do think there is an age at which privacy (for the young adult) becomes important while simultaneously having an open door with respect to judgement free discussions regarding what they and their peers are reading. Hence, the parenting part of parenting. I realize that not every student has this opportunity, so I think parents, school personnel, and the community should tread carefully when considering items for removal. Err on the side of keeping materials and put the onus on the parent to permit or prohibit because some parents simply wish to avoid uncomfortable topics that may arise when doing so or even recognize that their teen has agency over their own thoughts.

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Mrs Whiggins

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,728]

I get pulled into the trap as well, but conservatives and some liberals want to change the education discussion to culture war discussions. When you're focused on a few questionable books in the library, non-existent CRT programs, or hypothetical trans girls in sports you don't have to focus on how your schools are failing.

 

[safe sex 12,000]

Nevermind. Not worth it

Edited January 30, 2023 by safe sex

[HamsterHookah 112]

This thread never ceases to make me feel better about cutting a tuition check every semester for a theological private school every time I start to think "is it really worth it for a poor man like me and times are hard?".

Some of you people's parenting philosophies are insane to me (and mine, insane to you I'm sure) which just makes me love the freedom to choose on things like education all the more. One thing we can all agree on is the freedom to point at the other and think "Bless that person's children's heart".

Edited January 30, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[Bama Chick 28,596]

A bunch of straight white middle aged men - the majority from Texas - who are posting on a board with that disgusting PIIHB board and littered with pornographic avatars objectifying women acting like the moral police is just

[Macanudo 13,318]

5 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Nevermind. Not worth it

Actually, it is.   Some of the things you, and others, have responded with made me think more about this issue and in ways I had not really considered.   

And for the record, I have one child who is bi and and other who is pan (still can't really wrap my head around that concept.)   My message to each of them from the very get go was "I don't care who you love.   All I want for you is to be in a healthy relationship with some who respects you, loves you and makes you happy."  

I try as much as I can to understand, to the degree that a straight guy can, the issues facing teens of all stripes now a days.  I don't give a rat's ass who kisses, goes down or blows who.   But nice Guy Eddie also made an excellent point.   The trap to get pulled in and see this in ways other than about acceptance is really what this is about.  Saturday night "groomer" or "grooming" was said at least twice each.   And when that was said, I guffawed to myself and thought "Oh, bullshit, this is not grooming."

So, yeah, I did fall for some of it.   And discussions liked this are worth it.  

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

A bunch of straight white middle aged men - the majority from Texas - who are posting on a board with that disgusting PIIHB board and littered with pornographic avatars objectifying women acting like the moral police is just

About as logical and fitting as non-parents telling us how ‘it should be.’   If we’re gonna disqualify opinions that way, I-guess we can…

 

[DigglerontheHoof 21,550]

22 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

A bunch of straight white middle aged men - the majority from Texas - who are posting on a board with that disgusting PIIHB board and littered with pornographic avatars objectifying women acting like the moral police is just

Well screw us for having opinions, I guess. 

[Nivek 17,408]

34 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I've noticed a trend where conservatives state the purpose of K-12 schools is reading, writing and arithmetic. Two points that I would say about that. On average, states with a heavy conservative base have a worst education score than those with a liberal base.  Second, I'm fairly certain that we should not focus on a 1930s curriculum in 2023.

To be fair most inner city schools, with liberal leadership, are failing as well so results are not just about political leanings. 

Reading, writing, and arithmetic are important and we have issues with these non-objectionable subjects.   My kids attend Oak Forest Elm, and one is slated to attend Frank Black Middle School.   Only to find out they have 1 special ed teacher and 5 aids for ~1300 kids.   My oldest has LDs, how the fuck is thing going to work?  In the intro a week or so ago, the rep from FBMS came in and told us we needed to "let go" and "not to contact the teachers directly - as they won't respond", only the kids should contact them.   This sounds like the same strategy a child sex abuse cult would use.  

My kids kicked ass at virtual school because we could be involved and keep them on task.   So much of the material we see is behind schedule, making it a challenge for us as parents to stay involved or assist in a timely manner.   

I did not like how they taught about slavery/racism nor how they wanted to introduce the Holocaust.   

 

 

[WhatTheBuck 28,928]

24 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

A bunch of straight white middle aged men - the majority from Texas - who are posting on a board with that disgusting PIIHB board and littered with pornographic avatars objectifying women acting like the moral police is just

Okay, Karen. 

[HamsterHookah 112]

13 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Reading, writing, and arithmetic are important and we have issues with these non-objectionable subjects.   My kids attend Oak Forest Elm, and one is slated to attend Frank Black Middle School.   Only to find out they have 1 special ed teacher and 5 aids for ~1300 kids.   My oldest has LDs, how the fuck is thing going to work?  In the intro a week or so ago, the rep from FBMS came in and told us we needed to "let go" and "not to contact the teachers directly - as they won't respond", only the kids should contact them.   This sounds like the same strategy a child sex abuse cult would use.  

My kids kicked ass at virtual school because we could be involved and keep them on task.   So much of the material we see is behind schedule, making it a challenge for us as parents to stay involved or assist in a timely manner.   

I did not like how they taught about slavery/racism nor how they wanted to introduce the Holocaust.   

 

 

This would be concerning for me as well. I know a lot of people are content to outsource and let the public/government raise and develop their kids, but that is too much influence and control.

My kids are encouraged to email their teachers with questions on assignments or grades or what have you's, but the mandate is that the parent is CC'ed on every email a teacher and student engage with. That should be the norm as children are minors. 

On the other hand, I can see it from the public school educators POV as well. They are underpaid and overworked with a mixed bag of children on a variety of different personalities and behaviors with a mixed bag of positive/negative parenting and home influence. They can't be 1x1 with every student's parents and even if they wanted they have their hands tied by administration and resource constraints.

Parents wanting more from a public school is like going to McDonald's and expecting a nice steak and a server who knows the wine list and is there to maximize your experience. At some point you have to be realistic and set your expectations correctly or vote with your feet.

And at the risk of sounding like someone stumping for private schools-- trust me private schools have their own warts and suck too. There is no such thing as a perfect school unless you have the unlimited resources and the superhuman ability to homeschool.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,728]

Non-parents have a say in their local school district policies and curriculum. If that isn't the case why do I regularly see school boards full of 60 year olds?

[HornOnTheBayou 9,062]

31 minutes ago, Nivek said:

In the intro a week or so ago, the rep from FBMS came in and told us we needed to "let go" and "not to contact the teachers directly - as they won't respond", only the kids should contact them.   This sounds like the same strategy a child sex abuse cult would use.  

You clearly misunderstood what they were saying. No educator is going to tell a parent not to contact a teacher with an issue.

They are correct that by middle school, students should be starting to advocate for themselves. But not every student can do that and parents, of course, need to play a role. But get the fuck out of here with that "child sex abuse cult" shit.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Non-parents have a say in their local school district policies and curriculum. If that isn't the case why do I regularly see school boards full of 60 year olds?

Agreed.

and the notion that they should be silent or that their opinions on such matters are irrelevant is insane, but it's a really fun cultural warfare shot.

[Catdaddyhorn 3,466]

13 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

This is how America works.  Many other countries like us (Europe) are WAY more open about sex and I happen to think it is the right way to do things.  They do have a thousand years on us.

Yeah they're much more open with sex and typically much more restrictive when depicting violence. We could learn a lot from them. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,728]

yeah, that is a big leap to child sex abuse cult.

If someone instructed parents to not reach out to teachers, it sounds fair to ask the school for clarification. My guess is that the actual situation is not what you heard.

[Leeroy Jenkins 2,477]

I’m trying to figure out how viewing that would actually harm a high school kid.

They might catch the gay.

[Nivek 17,408]

50 minutes ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

You clearly misunderstood what they were saying. No educator is going to tell a parent not to contact a teacher with an issue.

They are correct that by middle school, students should be starting to advocate for themselves. But not every student can do that and parents, of course, need to play a role. But get the fuck out of here with that "child sex abuse cult" shit.

I didn't say they were a child abuse sex cult.  I said they had a similar policy.   The idea that parents should step back from being involved is fucking stupid.  

[Neonmoon 38,130]

 

3 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I did. Maybe you didn’t write what you intended to say. I shortened “homosexuals and lesbians are told their experiences are wrong and sinful, not only that, so bad they’re not allowed to do them, express them, or all books about them are banned or illegal” to a generalized expression of them being told it’s bad. I assumed you’d get that. So when I say we shouldn’t tell them it’s bad, I meant we shouldn’t do all those things you said. That’s the problem that needs to be fixed. Fix the people teaching our kids the wrong messages about sexuality. The problem isn’t that our schools have been lacking the necessary picture books showing sex acts that young people need to see in order to grow into healthy adults. You’re going to have a really hard time convincing me that the absence of graphic novels that show one woman going down on another woman is a problem in our educational system that needs to be corrected.

There was one openly gay guy in my high school. He took a lot of verbal abuse from the jocks. Credit to him, he stood up for himself and didn’t take their shit. To my knowledge, no one ever physically assaulted him. And as far as I know he never had a boyfriend. He seemed pretty comfortable about who he was. I think the problem was with the assholes who were picking on him. I don’t think having a book in the library that showed pictures of two men in a loving, committed relationship having anal sex was going to improve the situation at all. 

I don't think we should allow the bible on school property. Exposing children to manipulative cults that promote stories of bigotry, rape, and incest are not beneficial or provide educational value. However, that is my belief which may not be shared by everyone. I'm not trying to force my beliefs on others. You believe nudity and pictures of sex do not provide any value to teenagers in developing emotionally or sexually in a healthy way. That belief is not supported by any studies of human development. You want to force others to follow your beliefs. No one is harmed by normal depictions of sex

[Nivek 17,408]

2 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

This would be concerning for me as well. I know a lot of people are content to outsource and let the public/government raise and develop their kids, but that is too much influence and control.

My kids are encouraged to email their teachers with questions on assignments or grades or what have you's, but the mandate is that the parent is CC'ed on every email a teacher and student engage with. That should be the norm as children are minors. 

On the other hand, I can see it from the public school educators POV as well. They are underpaid and overworked with a mixed bag of children on a variety of different personalities and behaviors with a mixed bag of positive/negative parenting and home influence. They can't be 1x1 with every student's parents and even if they wanted they have their hands tied by administration and resource constraints.

Parents wanting more from a public school is like going to McDonald's and expecting a nice steak and a server who knows the wine list and is there to maximize your experience. At some point you have to be realistic and set your expectations correctly or vote with your feet.

And at the risk of sounding like someone stumping for private schools-- trust me private schools have their own warts and suck too. There is no such thing as a perfect school unless you have the unlimited resources and the superhuman ability to homeschool.

The italicized is completely reasonable.  I would prefer the kid to be the first advocate, but in his case, he just isn't there.   

Underlined: I can understand the job can be challenging.  I think they need more resources and I cannot see how the school can operate with 1 special ed teacher for 1300+ students even with 5 aids.  That pushes the burden onto the teachers who already have classes that are too big.   But I cannot change this.  I can only be there to supplement and support the kid if they communicate with me.  It is easy.  They don't have to write a lengthy email daily, but a short post it attached to his notebook would suffice.  

It's not about expecting steak from a McDonald's.  It is about expecting decency and communication and holding them to provide the services they are by law supposed to provide.   I have done private schools as well before.  

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Nivek

[HornOnTheBayou 9,062]

53 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I didn't say they were a child abuse sex cult.  I said they had a similar policy.   The idea that parents should step back from being involved is fucking stupid.  

Every educator in America agrees that the idea of parents not being involved in their children's education is wrong. That is why no one at the meeting you attended said that.

And thank you for clarifying that you don't see public schools as a child abuse sex cult, you only think they have the same policies. But again, respectfully, fuck off with that shit.

[GenXer 3,428]

3 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

This would be concerning for me as well. I know a lot of people are content to outsource and let the public/government raise and develop their kids, but that is too much influence and control.

My kids are encouraged to email their teachers with questions on assignments or grades or what have you's, but the mandate is that the parent is CC'ed on every email a teacher and student engage with. That should be the norm as children are minors. 

On the other hand, I can see it from the public school educators POV as well. They are underpaid and overworked with a mixed bag of children on a variety of different personalities and behaviors with a mixed bag of positive/negative parenting and home influence. They can't be 1x1 with every student's parents and even if they wanted they have their hands tied by administration and resource constraints.

Parents wanting more from a public school is like going to McDonald's and expecting a nice steak and a server who knows the wine list and is there to maximize your experience. At some point you have to be realistic and set your expectations correctly or vote with your feet.

And at the risk of sounding like someone stumping for private schools-- trust me private schools have their own warts and suck too. There is no such thing as a perfect school unless you have the unlimited resources and the superhuman ability to homeschool.

Stepdad checking in. My stepson attended a private christian elementary school in north Dallas from 1st - 4th grade.

I went to a parent / teacher night and looked around the room. It was filled with christian mythology and homework was full of who-begat-who. Worthless trivia that doesn’t add value. I asked the woman who was teaching computer literacy about windows explorer. I expected the curriculum to discuss file management. She said “sure, we show them the internet!” I looked at her quizzically and asked if she knew the difference between internet explorer and windows explorer. Blank stare from her.

I started teaching my stepson one of the windows products each summer. I gave him assignments like “we just went on vacation to hawaii - now pretend you’re a travel agent trying to sell us a vacation - do a presentation in powerpoint. Or catalog my dvd collection - tag each dvd by genre - sort them by X. I told him he should become an expert on excel.

Soon thereafter, I moved us into the Plano West school district. He took a junior level class on Excel and other software. He was bored by it because I taught him everything through the years. He was in Jr ROTC in high school, Air Force ROTC at Tech, and is now a 1st Lieutenant in the Air Force. He’s a cost analyst on AF projects. He built a 20 worksheet excel spreadsheet full of formulas to analyze his project. He was so proud to describe it to me. There’s a special satisfaction when your kid listens to you and acknowledges the advice you gave them was solid.

In my experience, public school in a good district is a better route than private schools. Supplement your kid’s education with things that you think will best position them for success.

[HamsterHookah 112]

8 minutes ago, GenXer said:

Stepdad checking in. My stepson attended a private christian elementary school in north Dallas from 1st - 4th grade.

I went to a parent / teacher night and looked around the room. It was filled with christian mythology and homework was full of who-begat-who. Worthless trivia that doesn’t add value. I asked the woman who was teaching computer literacy about windows explorer. I expected the curriculum to discuss file management. She said “sure, we show them the internet!” I looked at her quizzically and asked if she knew the difference between internet explorer and windows explorer. Blank stare from her.

I started teaching my stepson one of the windows products each summer. I gave him assignments like “we just went on vacation to hawaii - now pretend you’re a travel agent trying to sell us a vacation - do a presentation in powerpoint. Or catalog my dvd collection - tag each dvd by genre - sort them by X. I told him he should become an expert on excel.

Soon thereafter, I moved us into the Plano West school district. He took a junior level class on Excel and other software. He was bored by it because I taught him everything through the years. He was in Jr ROTC in high school, Air Force ROTC at Tech, and is now a 1st Lieutenant in the Air Force. He’s a cost analyst on AF projects. He built a 20 worksheet excel spreadsheet full of formulas to analyze his project. He was so proud to describe it to me. There’s a special satisfaction when your kid listens to you and acknowledges the advice you gave them was solid.

In my experience, public school in a good district is a better route than private schools. Supplement your kid’s education with things that you think will best position them for success.

Your experience is interesting, but it's just that-- your experience. Specifically, your private school sounds like it sucks bad and you were right to get out and go to a better school. Sounds like it worked out fantastic for your kiddo and you are a proud papa!

I, too, have had kids in the West Plano (Ohio/Tulane is where we lived) school district and I was pretty disappointed. The private schools we look at go above and beyond what you described you had to do supplementary at home-- I hope you weren't paying an arm and leg for that "privilege" to have to teach your kids basic stuff.

Beyond office 365 proficiency (creating decks in ppt/google and spreadsheets), my middle school kids were tasked with learning new software like Canva and Figma which I thought were cool because they were teaching me new things. YMMV

Edited January 30, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[GenXer 3,428]

9 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

I hope you weren't paying an arm and leg for that "privilege" to have to teach your kids basic stuff.

Nope. Freeware for the introduction, and then I had him demonstrate his capability. I taught him advanced things from there. I gave him an assignment that used those more advanced things. Total cost was $0 and some of my time. Infinite ROI.

You should have your kids also look at Miro. It’s great for brainstorming and their templates are quite useful. It’s decent for creating workflows. Lucidchart is really good for workflows. If they have any interest in software development, I suggest Axure for building prototypes.