The destruction of America's public education system

[atomheartbevo 89675]

5 hours ago, speed817 said:

WTF is this graphic supposed to endorse???

On 3/15/2023 at 11:14 PM, atomheartbevo said:

Or he has a thing for skinny white girls in really tight jeans.....

[pacman 7355]

 

 

 

[BevoAbyss 2059]

17 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

We're saying the same thing.  Religion has been used as a cover

With all due respect, I am not saying the same thing as you.

I am not saying religion is a good thing used to "cover" for the bad that humans do to others. I am not saying religion offers some kind of moral compass that covers for bad behavior. That's cherry-picking.

I am saying history is clear. For millennia, religion has offered a fact-free philosophy — born of a pre-scientific world with no telescopes or microscopes or modern sciences — that claims to explain the origins and destiny of humanity with a fundamental goal of conquest/colonization/conversion to rule/cleanse the Earth until the unseen savior returns. This pre-scientific philosophy appeals to inherent human narcissism and a variety of fears, insecurities, and violent tendencies that go back to hunter-gatherer societies and especially to our primate origins. Jane Goodall showed that to the world starting in the 1950s; Carl Sagan also explained it in his writings; others have as well. 

When people believe the Creator of the universe (or an all-powerful dictator) has their back and says they are super-special and on the fast track to spiritual purity and eternal destiny — then they will often do bad things to other people. The so-called charity and morality come after the bloodbath, not before. It's freedom within religion, not outside it. Always. The only thing to tame this has been the laws and rights from secular philosophy.

Here's why most people believe religion is used as a "cover." 1) easy cherry-picking from the sacred scrolls, while ignoring other directives and passages. 2) The power of relentless religious propaganda at all levels, from the local preachers to the talking heads in media to the halls of academia. 3) Too many scientists who are lame secular philosophers. 

TLDR. Time's up for cherry-picking propaganda. MAGA is not an aberration.

Edited March 19, 2023 by BevoAbyss
Typo.

[Guest]

I'm down with all of the cherry-picking to stop.  Have said so many times.

A shit ton of folks besides the religious zealots can stand the fuck down while we're at it.

[Captainant 27677]

35 minutes ago, slorch said:

I'm down with all of the cherry-picking to stop.  Have said so many times.

A shit ton of folks besides the religious zealots can stand the fuck down while we're at it.

Yes #bothsides we know slorch. Bless your heart. 

[hayden_horn 11362]

On 3/18/2023 at 9:03 PM, atomheartbevo said:

Or he has a thing for skinny white girls in really tight jeans.....

which, i mean, let the, uh, first among us cast, uh..yeah.

this houston takeover has always been the republican endgame. i'm not surprised that the democrats haven't seen it even though everyone seems to have been yelling it forever. isolate and control local school boards and city councils, etc. grass roots the fuck out of this. use bigger bully pulpits to advance smaller local agendas in line with nationalist party rhetoric. 

i think the republicans are going to fuck this up because they rushed and went at the king (houston isd, really? only reason they couldn't go after austin was recapture, i guess), but this has always, always been the goal with public school. look no further than the state school officials and how the textbook circus goes. 

it's a clusterfuck, by design.

republicans seem to have the philosophy that only they can fix what only they can tear down. 

but then they fix fuckall and leave the rest of us holding the bag.

fuckers.

[nbmishoid 949]

Again, with this data, how are they going to show the court their due diligence and the merit of their choice, among compelling alternatives.  Does this shit matter at the state level?

[HamsterHookah 112]

57 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

Again, with this data, how are they going to show the court their due diligence and the merit of their choice, among compelling alternatives.  Does this shit matter at the state level?

 

1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

which, i mean, let the, uh, first among us cast, uh..yeah.

this houston takeover has always been the republican endgame. i'm not surprised that the democrats haven't seen it even though everyone seems to have been yelling it forever. isolate and control local school boards and city councils, etc. grass roots the fuck out of this. use bigger bully pulpits to advance smaller local agendas in line with nationalist party rhetoric. 

i think the republicans are going to fuck this up because they rushed and went at the king (houston isd, really? only reason they couldn't go after austin was recapture, i guess), but this has always, always been the goal with public school. look no further than the state school officials and how the textbook circus goes. 

it's a clusterfuck, by design.

republicans seem to have the philosophy that only they can fix what only they can tear down. 

but then they fix fuckall and leave the rest of us holding the bag.

fuckers.

From what I've read, this was literally years in the making. Years of threats to do this. To act surprised, to the extent anyone is, seems weird.

To your point about Houston being the king-- it's definitely the biggest takeover I've read about (others being Philadelphia, New Orleans and Detroit in recent years) and am curious if this can help improve the empirically and undeniably underperformance in some schools (along with allegedly illegal stuff that was going on in HISD with inappropriately influencing vendor contracts for kick-backs).

[tokamak 6431]

42 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

 

From what I've read, this was literally years in the making. Years of threats to do this. To act surprised, to the extent anyone is, seems weird.

To your point about Houston being the king-- it's definitely the biggest takeover I've read about (others being Philadelphia, New Orleans and Detroit in recent years) and am curious if this can help improve the empirically and undeniably underperformance in some schools (along with allegedly illegal stuff that was going on in HISD with inappropriately influencing vendor contracts for kick-backs).

I don't think anyone is very surprised. Honestly, HISD has had its fair share of fuckery over the last several years. What's frustrating is that at this point, the worst bad apples are gone from the board, results have actually improved at the high school that triggered the takeover in the first place, and people seem to like the new superintendent. What I'm feeling as an HISD parent, and what seems to be the general feeling, is not surprise but more like fear. Given what we know, I think the chances that Abbott/Morath appoint at least some managers that are political cronies, or people with an agenda other than supporting public school students, are very high. And it's going to happen just as things had actually started looking up a little for HISD. Right now we're just waiting and holding our breath.

There's no timeline for the state to hand back control to elected trustees. If you look at the rules, the state can basically say "eh, hasn't improved enough" and keep kicking that can down the road forever. So in effect we have the school district being turned into a political plaything for state GOP leaders for an indefinite amount of time, with no accountability to people that live within HISD. Studies have shown that these state takeovers are a mixed bag in terms of results - sometimes they help, sometimes they don't.

I find it ironic that the GOP's rallying cry regarding education right now is "parental choice!!", yet they're going to take control of HISD away from a diverse set of trustees elected by the people of Houston and hand it to a group of managers chosen by a political appointee in Austin.

[HamsterHookah 112]

6 minutes ago, tokamak said:

I don't think anyone is very surprised. Honestly, HISD has had its fair share of fuckery over the last several years. What's frustrating is that at this point, the worst bad apples are gone from the board, results have actually improved at the high school that triggered the takeover in the first place, and people seem to like the new superintendent. What I'm feeling as an HISD parent, and what seems to be the general feeling, is not surprise but more like fear. Given what we know, I think the chances that Abbott/Morath appoint at least some managers that are political cronies, or people with an agenda other than supporting public school students, are very high. And it's going to happen just as things had actually started looking up a little for HISD. Right now we're just waiting and holding our breath.

There's no timeline for the state to hand back control to elected trustees. If you look at the rules, the state can basically say "eh, hasn't improved enough" and keep kicking that can down the road forever. So in effect we have the school district being turned into a political plaything for state GOP leaders for an indefinite amount of time, with no accountability to people that live within HISD. Studies have shown that these state takeovers are a mixed bag in terms of results - sometimes they help, sometimes they don't.

I find it ironic that the GOP's rallying cry regarding education right now is "parental choice!!", yet they're going to take control of HISD away from a diverse set of trustees elected by the people of Houston and hand it to a group of managers chosen by a political appointee in Austin.

Thanks for the insightful post.

I too see the irony there and have a hard time trying to understand why the state would even want the administrative headache of HISD. There must be some good political football potential.

Edited March 20, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[HornOnTheBayou 8931]

10 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Thanks for the insightful post.

I too see the irony there and have a hard time trying to understand why the state would even want the administrative headache of HISD. There must be some good political football potential.

You cannot actually be this dumb. It's not possible. 

[atomheartbevo 89675]

4 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

I too see the irony there and have a hard time trying to understand why the state would even want the administrative headache of HISD. There must be some good political football potential.

Don't overthink it.  Abbott and Co. need some liberals they can beat up on, and HISD is it.  HISD could have done far, far more than what Hayden mentioned they had already accomplished (raising scores, replacing the board, getting a superintendent people liked, etc.), and Abbott was still going to have an example made out of them, because he clearly hates the politicians in Houston and needs to embarrass them in some way, because they've stood up to him, and Abbott has proven himself to be a petty man when it comes to Texans that don't agree with him.

Don't forget, Abbott publicly floated the idea of taking over the Austin Police Department and having DPS come in and take over.

When Abbott and the other Republicans tell you who they are, listen to them.  When they tell you they will fuck with liberal areas and try and impose their will on those areas and school districts because they don't think those areas or school districts should be doing what they are doing, listen to them.  Big liberal cities are ripe targets for the Party of Small Government and Parental Choice.

Oh, and don't forget that there are a bunch of donors and Republicans pushing private schools because of the profit potential.  Again, listen to them when they tell you who they are.  They can't make much of a profit off of public schools, but those 5.5 million public school students represent a whole shitload of profit if they can be forced into private schools.

 

[atomheartbevo 89675]

11 minutes ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

You cannot actually be this dumb. It's not possible. 

He is.  Abbott and Co. are literally telling everybody who they are, and the 10th incarnation of ImmaculateVibes or whatever can't comprehend that.  It's like the Russian apologists who claim that Russia is not out to take over and control Ukrainian territory, even though Russian leaders and talking heads on Russian state TV are saying they are going to do just that.

[BevoAbyss 2059]

Never forget the code words:

School choice = School Christian.

Private = Prophets and profits.

— About 3/4 of private school are affiliated with religious organization. Only about a quarter of private schools are not religious.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/schoolchoice/ind_03.asp

The long-term GQP goal is clear: theocratic education for a Christian-ruled America. 

[BevoAbyss 2059]

On 3/19/2023 at 8:13 AM, slorch said:

A shit ton of folks besides the religious zealots can stand the fuck down while we're at it.

Is that referring to me? If so, sorry dude, ain't happening on my end.

Time's up for the apologia and excuse-making for Christian fascism, which has been building since Reagan. Time's up for tolerating the intolerant. Time's up for equivocating (#bothsides). 

Standing up to Christian fascism sure ain't coming from the weak-ass institutions of America: media, academia, corporate America, science organizations, or the Democratic Party. They are all standing down. Have been all my life. 

If the atheists and secularists don't stand up to Christian fascism, then who in the hell will?

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, BevoAbyss said:

Is that referring to me? If so, sorry dude, ain't happening on my end.

Time's up for the apologia and excuse-making for Christian fascism, which has been building since Reagan. Time's up for tolerating the intolerant. Time's up for equivocating (#bothsides). 

Standing up to Christian fascism sure ain't coming from the weak-ass institutions of America: media, academia, corporate America, science organizations, or the Democratic Party. They are all standing down. Have been all my life. 

If the atheists and secularists don't stand up to Christian fascism, then who in the hell will?

 

If that's the only dogmatic  threat you see in the battle over curriculum/ education process, then you absolutely are part of the problem.

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by slorch

[Willfully Horn 8017]

I believe he is referring to Democrats, BA.

[atomheartbevo 89675]

edit: nm

Edited March 21, 2023 by atomheartbevo

[BevoAbyss 2059]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

If that's the only evil/ threat you see, then you absolutely are part of the problem.

Is that supposed to some kind of profound take down? Lulz. This ain't the football thread.

You have no idea what I do for a living, what I may have said or written in multiple venues, across three decades. No idea. Nada. Zero. 

Did I say Christian fascismMAGA/GQP are the only problem in education or across America? No. 

I could name many more problems. But MAGA/GQP/Christian fascists are the most destructive force in America, in education and intellectual standards across culture. By far. No one is even close. Hell, even Ancient Aliens is a distant second!

— I don't see any other groups attacking basic knowledge all across the culture. Building for decades, though it has accelerated in the past two decades.

— I don't see any other groups seeking to ban school books wholesale, seeking to brainwash kids with Bible-thumping, seeking to enforce blind patriotism, and so on. 

— I don't see any other group actively attacking basic medical science and enabling the deaths of more than 1.1 million Americans with their idiocy amidst a global pandemic. 

— I don't see any other group advocating and believing the most insane conspiracy theories, from Q to Bill Gates to fake moon landings to believing to climate catastrophe is a hoax. The list is endless. 

— I don't any other group celebrating assault weapons (including in family photos) and doing absolutely nothing to prevent mass murders in schools. 

— I don't see any other group utterly enthralled by a news network that openly lies to keep its ratings. All the time!

— I don't see any other group worshipping an orange-faced buffoon, an obvious serial liar and criminal who tried to overturn an election, who is easily the most malevolent and malignant man in America. 

— I don't see any other group blindly following the buffoon's orders and after enacting a violent insurrection to overthrow a presidential election. And still believe the insurrection did not happen. Now that are openly planning to steal future elections. The doublethink is astronomical.

— I don't see any other group openly attacking the rights of women, people of color, and LGBTQIA+. They are nowhere near stopping. They will come for others. All because they believe the sacred scrolls (Bible) have ordained them to roll back secular culture and the rights of others they don't like. The literally believe the Bible overrules centuries of secular law and the recognition of human rights.

— I could go on...... 

But, yeah, an atheist like me is part of the problem. Only for the Christian fascists educators and their enablers and apologists. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by BevoAbyss
Clarity

[BevoAbyss 2059]

6 minutes ago, BevoAbyss said:

I don't see any other group blindly following the buffoon's orders and after enacting a violent insurrection ....

Editorial gaffe. The above should read: "I don't see any other group blindly following the buffoon's orders and enacting a violent insurrection ..." 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

4 hours ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

You cannot actually be this dumb. It's not possible. 

Not only is it possible, its highly probable.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

I believe he is referring to Democrats, BA.

Anybody integrating their politics/ religion ahead of actual education of our populace. I take plenty of issue with the weak ass Christians who do anything but live by faith/ persecute/ etc/etc.  There are other hugely damaging influences on our educational system, as well.  But fuck the Christians.  They is it.

Right?Of course not.  It’d be Shanghai-fucking-la otherwise.

[Willfully Horn 8017]

3 minutes ago, slorch said:

Anybody integrating their politics/ religion ahead of actual education of our populace. I take plenty of issue with the weak ass Christians who do anything but live by faith/ persecute/ etc/etc.  There are other hugely damaging influences on our educational system, as well.  But fuck the Christians.  They is it.

Right?Of course not.  It’d be Shanghai-fucking-la otherwise.

I am staunch in my support of improving public education. And also in my support of teachers. Fuck politicians who make their jobs more difficult.  Your final sentence made me laugh. Made me think of bars in Seattle.

As for Christianity, I hope you think the following is worth the two and a half minutes:

 

[Mdhorn 5949]

On 3/19/2023 at 8:03 AM, BevoAbyss said:

I am saying history is clear. For millennia, religion has offered a fact-free philosophy — born of a pre-scientific world with no telescopes or microscopes or modern sciences — that claims to explain the origins and destiny of humanity with a fundamental goal of conquest/colonization/conversion to rule/cleanse the Earth until the unseen savior returns. This pre-scientific philosophy appeals to inherent human narcissism and a variety of fears, insecurities, and violent tendencies that go back to hunter-gatherer societies and especially to our primate origins. Jane Goodall showed that to the world starting in the 1950s; Carl Sagan also explained it in his writings; others have as well. 

When people believe the Creator of the universe (or an all-powerful dictator) has their back and says they are super-special and on the fast track to spiritual purity and eternal destiny — then they will often do bad things to other people. The so-called charity and morality come after the bloodbath, not before. It's freedom within religion, not outside it. Always. The only thing to tame this has been the laws and rights from secular philosophy.

1. Faith based--proof denies faith

2. Repentance -- all sins redeemed (almost like new testament cleared the way for bloodshed) 

19 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

republicans seem to have the philosophy that only they can fix what only they can tear down. 

but then they fix fuckall and leave the rest of us holding the bag.

It's another money grab.  That's how Republicans see government.  But education takeover is also grooming for Republicans.  Remember, every accusation is a confession.  

Edited March 21, 2023 by Mdhorn

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20400]

LOL first the tweet from "Young Americans for Liberty"
 

 

 

Next, the reality:
 

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89675]

15 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

LOL first the tweet from "Young Americans for Liberty"

I would laugh, but a lot of dumbshits will never see the second photo.

[4th&Five 41557]

 

[tx 3 putt 76978]

[tx 3 putt 76978]

 

[fattyflattie 4639]

5 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

If SJL makes you look incompetent, good lord. 

[tx 3 putt 76978]

 

[tx 3 putt 76978]

 

[bluto 4929]

Any teacher who didn’t know there were ‘other job options’ for 18 years probably isn’t the best and brightest option to educate. But perfect for a Christian private school in the panhandle, superintendent material possibly. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10243]

On 3/21/2023 at 7:12 PM, tx 3 putt said:

 

I do feel for the parents/people of HISD who put up with crap for years of mismanagement in the school board and administration to have finally cleaned up most of it with no help from the state and only THEN the state decides to finally "help" them.

[Captainant 27677]

3 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

I do feel for the parents/people of HISD who put up with crap for years of mismanagement in the school board and administration to have finally cleaned up most of it with no help from the state and only THEN the state decides to finally "help" them.

It's just republicans making good on their promise of the government being horrible. That way they can justify further cuts to the government. 

Republicans don't give a fuck about governing and helping people, they just want their little corner and everyone else can fuck off

[tokamak 6431]

17 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

I do feel for the parents/people of HISD who put up with crap for years of mismanagement in the school board and administration to have finally cleaned up most of it with no help from the state and only THEN the state decides to finally "help" them.

It would be a very smart move for TEA to retain the current superintendent. There is no rule saying that he must be replaced with a new person. That would go a long way toward reducing tension in the community, he is well liked, and his early returns have been good. He was hired in 2021, so not tainted by any of the previous corruption, infighting, unprofessionalism, failing results etc.

That’s my fantasy land. In reality I expect them to hire the CEO of a religious charter school network who also happens to be a major Abbott donor. What’s Betsy DeVos up to these days?

[Gap03 3308]

35 minutes ago, tokamak said:

That’s my fantasy land. In reality I expect them to hire the CEO of a religious charter school network who also happens to be a major Abbott donor. What’s Betsy DeVos up to these days?

[Covri 6249]

As the former Senior VP of Superintendenting at Twitter I’ve reached out to toss my hat in the ring for a cushy no show role in HISD.

 

/theamericanway

[Anwar Namtut 344]

I hate the "our children are being indoctrinated" bullshit. I know it's shit, they know it's shit. Teachers barely have time to teach the regular stuff. 

[pacman 7355]

TLDNR: teacher discussed David to 6th graders, principal forced to resign after 3 parents complain

[Willfully Horn 8017]

28 minutes ago, pacman said:

TLDNR: teacher discussed David to 6th graders, principal forced to resign after 3 parents complain

Several years back a Dallas area teacher was fired for taking students on a field trip to an art museum, where the kids saw depictions of nudity. The complaining parent had signed a permission slip, and had given their consent for their child to go to an art museum. The teacher was fired. 
 

Kudos to this principal, that’s what I want to think.

[atomheartbevo 89675]

2 hours ago, Anwar Namtut said:

I hate the "our children are being indoctrinated" bullshit. I know it's shit, they know it's shit. Teachers barely have time to teach the regular stuff. 

Yep, as you start going up in grades, teachers are spending a helluva lot more time cramming little Timmy full of stuff so they pass whatever tests are coming, so that the teachers don't catch more shit from the administration.

 

[Willfully Horn 8017]

Must suck for folks like flattie, forced to vote for proponents of such blight, in order to put a roof over his family’s head.

[WhatTheBuck 28783]

3 hours ago, Anwar Namtut said:

I hate the "our children are being indoctrinated" bullshit. I know it's shit, they know it's shit. Teachers barely have time to teach the regular stuff. 

That’s another instance of “every accusation is a confession.” They’re the ones trying to indoctrinate the children. They don’t want to raise educated young people who can think for themselves and might not subscribe to their (primarily religious but also cultural, racial, etc.) dogma. It’s a fear of anyone foiling their indoctrination. It’s what leads a lot of them to home school their kids. Can’t let any unsanctioned ideas get into their little heads. 

[WhatTheBuck 28783]

29 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Yep, as you start going up in grades, teachers are spending a helluva lot more time cramming little Timmy full of stuff so they pass whatever tests are coming, so that the teachers don't catch more shit from the administration.

 

I thought they got rid of No Child Left Behind. 

[tokamak 6431]

1 hour ago, pacman said:

TLDNR: teacher discussed David to 6th graders, principal forced to resign after 3 parents complain

Read up on the school this happened at. It's run by people with a blatant political agenda. I'm sure they were looking for a reason to fire anyone not on board with the message they're trying to push.

[atomheartbevo 89675]

2 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I thought they got rid of No Child Left Behind. 

Read up on the STAAR tests.

[fattyflattie 4639]

15 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

Must suck for folks like flattie, forced to vote for proponents of such blight, in order to put a roof over his family’s head.

You can @ me, don’t be shy.  You speak as if people don’t have private as an option. 

[Willfully Horn 8017]

3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

You can @ me, don’t be shy.  You speak as if people don’t have private as an option. 

Tough to figure you out. You had a fit when I did @ you, responding to a post of yours I chose not to quote. But, I will @ your mention from hence forward.

Your second sentence makes no sense to me.

[fattyflattie 4639]

8 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Tough to figure you out. You had a fit when I did @ you, responding to a post of yours I chose not to quote. But, I will @ your mention from hence forward.

Your second sentence makes no sense to me.

Im ok with you @ me as long as it’s not some make believe shit I’ve never said. You aren’t one who regularly does that, iirc.  In that regard, I do believe you are conflating me with a post @Poe It Up made in the LGQBT thread, which I’m no longer able to post in. Personally, I’ve never had a struggle putting roofs over any head, in any administration (although my chances of adding a vacation roof are better with an oil friendly R (not TFG)). 
 

I don’t understand what confused you about my second sentence.  If you prioritize the best education, there are lots of options available outside of the shit offered by the state.  And I’m not talking about classes on the Ark.