The destruction of America's public education system

[UpperWestside 6273]

I do not think that any of these zealot Christian school prayer warriors realize that they have opened schools to EVERY religion to try and do the same thing in schools. Unintended consequences and whatnot. I hope I see Rainn Wilson standing in front of a school in some rural East Texas school district promoting the Baha’i faith.

[Biff Tannen 46163]

2 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

I do not think that any of these zealot Christian school prayer warriors realize that they have opened schools to EVERY religion to try and do the same thing in schools. Unintended consequences and whatnot. I hope I see Rainn Wilson standing in front of a school in some rural East Texas school district promoting the Baha’i faith.

I think the difference is that all these other religions aren't as big of assholes as the christian warriors are.

[UpperWestside 6273]

32 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I think the difference is that all these other religions aren't as big of assholes as the christian warriors are.

Oh absolutely. There is just this inherent inferiority complex with these people I would loosely call Christians. They are no more a Christian than I am the starting shooting guard for the Lakers. Forcing a faith on people for no reason other than to be as big a jerk as is humanly possible is ridiculous on every level.

[tx 3 putt 78675]

once they start unrolling mats on the field for prayer, shit is going to get serious 

[CooterBrown 18288]

Come on. The Supreme Court will rule non-Christian religions aren’t protected by the constitution the first chance they get.

[fattyflattie 4640]

On 7/25/2022 at 11:03 AM, bonnieblue said:

If you look at Austin, there are only a handful of private schools worth a damn and those are already very competitive. If you removed public schools (Anderson, west lake etc) from the equation, they’re only going to get exponentially more competitive.

This is where I get hung up too. I guess the end game is someone will get paid at the expense of others’ kids educations (or lack thereof). Not very religious so I don’t really follow the whole Jesus needs to be in school theory.  

[DigglerontheHoof 21550]

5 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

This is where I get hung up too. I guess the end game is someone will get paid at the expense of others’ kids educations (or lack thereof). Not very religious so I don’t really follow the whole Jesus needs to be in school theory.  

No, you just blindly vote for the party that wants to shove it down every citizen's throat. 

[bonnieblue 542]

7 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

This is where I get hung up too. I guess the end game is someone will get paid at the expense of others’ kids educations (or lack thereof). Not very religious so I don’t really follow the whole Jesus needs to be in school theory.  

That’s kind of a short summary of most of the issues with Texas these days. We’re breaking institutions that served us pretty well (not perfect), for the benefit of a handful of people (you and I are not any of those people).

As to schools, it’s not like taxes will go down, they will just be funneled to these bullshit religious schools. I went to one of these schools to avoid the dreaded “bad public school”. It was not a complete education (evolution isn’t real, Jesus walked with dinosaurs) and the voucher didn’t even completely cover cost of admission. My mom regrets it immensely.

From a selfish dollars/cents standpoint, this shift is bullshit for the bottom line. Whereas before your kid could previously get a pretty solid education and social experience (provided you were in a good district),  it’s now looking like your taxes will stay just as high (gotta make those 10 rich people more wealthy and Jesus), but you now have to hope you have the honor of paying $30k + per year per kid if your kid is one of the handful that actually gets in to the (increasingly competitive) privates that actually provides a good education. It’s a completely sham and fleecing of the middle and upper middle class.

[ConferenceRoom 6214]

2 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

No, you just blindly vote for the party that wants to shove it down every citizen's throat. 

But, you see, the economy. 

[Js1 87177]

8 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

Come on. The Supreme Court will rule non-Christian religions aren’t protected by the constitution the first chance they get.

Ding ding ding ding!

[Nivek 17408]

Sorry coach, I got to change into my magic underpants.

[CooterBrown 18288]

1 hour ago, bonnieblue said:

As to schools, it’s not like taxes will go down, they will just be funneled to these bullshit religious schools. I went to one of these schools... My mom regrets it immensely.

We sent our oldest to one of the top Austin private schools from K-4.  We also regret it.  I will give them props on that the education was very good. We did not get to evolution at that age yet so science instruction was fine.  I have always wondered if performance was due to student selection. She had to interview going into K, alone with a teacher, to test her aptitude.  In hindsight, the education probably wasn't any better, it was just a pool of higher performing kids.

The one thing that stood out from the beginning was that kid treatment corresponded directly to how much the parents donated on top of the $15,000 tuition.  They published every donation over $500 in the newsletter with special categories for $10K, 25K, 50K, & 100K+.  

The thing that broke us finally was that some boys were picking on my daughter and my daughter was suspended for a day for taking a swing at one of them.  In the words of the assistant principal "girls needs to be more submissive to boys and she should've just taken it."  Also, she did apologize for taking the swing but the AP said that because she wasn't on her knees crying and begging for forgiveness, she didn't really mean it.  Holy fuck, I lost my shit.  We stayed home the rest of the week and went to our local elementary school on Monday.  To top it off, I had cut a check for next year's tuition the day before and they refused to refund it. 

After a few weeks at public school, I picked her up from school and she said "Until I started here, I didn't know how good school could be and how nice kids could be."  I lost my shit again.

 

 

[ConferenceRoom 6214]

7 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

We sent our oldest to one of the top Austin private schools from K-4.  We also regret it.  I will give them props on that the education was very good. We did not get to evolution at that age yet so science instruction was fine.  I have always wondered if performance was due to student selection. She had to interview going into K, alone with a teacher, to test her aptitude.  In hindsight, the education probably wasn't any better, it was just a pool of higher performing kids.

The one thing that stood out from the beginning was that kid treatment corresponded directly to how much the parents donated on top of the $15,000 tuition.  They published every donation over $500 in the newsletter with special categories for $10K, 25K, 50K, & 100K+.  

The thing that broke us finally was that some boys were picking on my daughter and my daughter was suspended for a day for taking a swing at one of them.  In the words of the assistant principal "girls needs to be more submissive to boys and she should've just taken it."  Also, she did apologize for taking the swing but the AP said that because she wasn't on her knees crying and begging for forgiveness, she didn't really mean it.  Holy fuck, I lost my shit.  We stayed home the rest of the week and went to our local elementary school on Monday.  To top it off, I had cut a check for next year's tuition the day before and they refused to refund it. 

After a few weeks at public school, I picked her up from school and she said "Until I started here, I didn't know how good school could be and how nice kids could be."  I lost my shit again.

 

 

I admire your restraint. I would be in prison, possibly Death Row. 

[Js1 87177]

8 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

The thing that broke us finally was that some boys were picking on my daughter and my daughter was suspended for a day for taking a swing at one of them.  In the words of the assistant principal "girls needs to be more submissive to boys and she should've just taken it." 

Sounds a tad groom-y

[Incredulity 11875]

1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

We sent our oldest to one of the top Austin private schools from K-4.  We also regret it.  I will give them props on that the education was very good. We did not get to evolution at that age yet so science instruction was fine.  I have always wondered if performance was due to student selection. She had to interview going into K, alone with a teacher, to test her aptitude.  In hindsight, the education probably wasn't any better, it was just a pool of higher performing kids.

The one thing that stood out from the beginning was that kid treatment corresponded directly to how much the parents donated on top of the $15,000 tuition.  They published every donation over $500 in the newsletter with special categories for $10K, 25K, 50K, & 100K+.  

The thing that broke us finally was that some boys were picking on my daughter and my daughter was suspended for a day for taking a swing at one of them.  In the words of the assistant principal "girls needs to be more submissive to boys and she should've just taken it."  Also, she did apologize for taking the swing but the AP said that because she wasn't on her knees crying and begging for forgiveness, she didn't really mean it.  Holy fuck, I lost my shit.  We stayed home the rest of the week and went to our local elementary school on Monday.  To top it off, I had cut a check for next year's tuition the day before and they refused to refund it. 

After a few weeks at public school, I picked her up from school and she said "Until I started here, I didn't know how good school could be and how nice kids could be."  I lost my shit again.

 

 

I attended public school and was set on my kids going to public school.  Private school got my oldest(started private in 5th grade, now in 9th) from mid tier on all the standardized testing to advanced and straight A's. For us that juice has been worth the tuition squeeze.  Haven't run into alot of $$$ donation politics or other pay to play shenanigans, although I am sure it is common at many private schools.  Ours is well respected, but not upper crusty though.

[Biff Tannen 46163]

2 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

We sent our oldest to one of the top Austin private schools from K-4.  We also regret it.  I will give them props on that the education was very good. We did not get to evolution at that age yet so science instruction was fine.  I have always wondered if performance was due to student selection. She had to interview going into K, alone with a teacher, to test her aptitude.  In hindsight, the education probably wasn't any better, it was just a pool of higher performing kids.

The one thing that stood out from the beginning was that kid treatment corresponded directly to how much the parents donated on top of the $15,000 tuition.  They published every donation over $500 in the newsletter with special categories for $10K, 25K, 50K, & 100K+.  

The thing that broke us finally was that some boys were picking on my daughter and my daughter was suspended for a day for taking a swing at one of them.  In the words of the assistant principal "girls needs to be more submissive to boys and she should've just taken it."  Also, she did apologize for taking the swing but the AP said that because she wasn't on her knees crying and begging for forgiveness, she didn't really mean it.  Holy fuck, I lost my shit.  We stayed home the rest of the week and went to our local elementary school on Monday.  To top it off, I had cut a check for next year's tuition the day before and they refused to refund it. 

After a few weeks at public school, I picked her up from school and she said "Until I started here, I didn't know how good school could be and how nice kids could be."  I lost my shit again.

 

 

WOW to this whole post.  Or Torbush, if you prefer.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Biff Tannen

[tx 3 putt 78675]

2 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

We sent our oldest to one of the top Austin private schools from K-4.  We also regret it.  I will give them props on that the education was very good. We did not get to evolution at that age yet so science instruction was fine.  I have always wondered if performance was due to student selection. She had to interview going into K, alone with a teacher, to test her aptitude.  In hindsight, the education probably wasn't any better, it was just a pool of higher performing kids.

The one thing that stood out from the beginning was that kid treatment corresponded directly to how much the parents donated on top of the $15,000 tuition.  They published every donation over $500 in the newsletter with special categories for $10K, 25K, 50K, & 100K+.  

The thing that broke us finally was that some boys were picking on my daughter and my daughter was suspended for a day for taking a swing at one of them.  In the words of the assistant principal "girls needs to be more submissive to boys and she should've just taken it."  Also, she did apologize for taking the swing but the AP said that because she wasn't on her knees crying and begging for forgiveness, she didn't really mean it.  Holy fuck, I lost my shit.  We stayed home the rest of the week and went to our local elementary school on Monday.  To top it off, I had cut a check for next year's tuition the day before and they refused to refund it. 

After a few weeks at public school, I picked her up from school and she said "Until I started here, I didn't know how good school could be and how nice kids could be."  I lost my shit again.

 

 

I would have became violent with said assistant principal. 

[F250 29199]

My oldest two sons attended private for K-5th. It was an Episcopal school so there was never a concern about religious fundamentalism. The education was great. Ultimately they wanted to attend school with their friends from the community. Academically the difference was night and day. They skated through middle school and weren't challenged until high school.

 

[Willfully Horn 8259]

3 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

The thing that broke us finally was that some boys were picking on my daughter and my daughter was suspended for a day for taking a swing at one of them.  In the words of the assistant principal "girls needs to be more submissive to boys and she should've just taken it." 

Third grade daughter came home upset due to in school suspension. A boy, one of her friends, in fact, had her pushed up against a cabinet, and she punched him in the stomach, doubling him over. Bright and early the next day, I was reading the riot act to the principle and the woman in charge of discipline. My kid has the right to protect herself, and why did she need to do so?

I also worried about the boy. I told them this was a red flag, imo. That kid committed suicide at the end of the following year. The woman in charge of discipline was close with the boy’s mother. She has yet to look me in the eye in the years since.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Willfully Horn
Spelling

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

3 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

We sent our oldest to one of the top Austin private schools from K-4.  We also regret it.  I will give them props on that the education was very good. We did not get to evolution at that age yet so science instruction was fine.  I have always wondered if performance was due to student selection. She had to interview going into K, alone with a teacher, to test her aptitude.  In hindsight, the education probably wasn't any better, it was just a pool of higher performing kids.

The one thing that stood out from the beginning was that kid treatment corresponded directly to how much the parents donated on top of the $15,000 tuition.  They published every donation over $500 in the newsletter with special categories for $10K, 25K, 50K, & 100K+.  

The thing that broke us finally was that some boys were picking on my daughter and my daughter was suspended for a day for taking a swing at one of them.  In the words of the assistant principal "girls needs to be more submissive to boys and she should've just taken it."  Also, she did apologize for taking the swing but the AP said that because she wasn't on her knees crying and begging for forgiveness, she didn't really mean it.  Holy fuck, I lost my shit.  We stayed home the rest of the week and went to our local elementary school on Monday.  To top it off, I had cut a check for next year's tuition the day before and they refused to refund it. 

After a few weeks at public school, I picked her up from school and she said "Until I started here, I didn't know how good school could be and how nice kids could be."  I lost my shit again.

 

 

sarcasm: you are such a poor example to your daughter for not encouraging her to 'stay sweet' around males. /sarcasm

 

Seriously. Welcome to pre-Title IX education attitudes about the female place in society. Except those attitudes did not and have not disappeared even though things have progressed. Title IX is often thought of in terms of sports, but it's initial impetus was simply to gain a seat at the table with regards to access to educational opportunities. Although it became law in 1972, in the public school I attended it was apparently viewed with the same foot dragging as the initial CRA of 1964 and many of the old guard teachers I had who still remembered the 'good old days,' did not view females as worthy of their time and attention nor were females capable of understanding 'hard' subjects, or deserving of such things as equal access to sports facilities, holding positions of rank (drum major), etc. Things changed during my time in school and after, but going back to racial and gender oppression is a poor indicator of a society's health.

I have omitted the changing attitudes regarding gender identification and orientation for brevity.

 

 

[Nivek 17408]

2 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

Third grade daughter came home upset due to in school suspension. A boy, one of her friends, in fact, had her pushed up against a cabinet, and she punched him in the stomach, doubling him over. Bright and early the next day, I was teading the tiot act to the principle and the woman in charge of discipline. My kid has the right to protect herself, and why did she need to do so?

I also worried about the boy. I told them this was a red flag, imo. That kid committed suicide at the end of the following year. The woman in charge of discipline was close with the boy’s mother. She has yet to look me in the eye in the years since.

4th grader committed suicide? What the ever loving fuck?

[SydneyCarton 49477]

22 minutes ago, Nivek said:

4th grader committed suicide? What the ever loving fuck?

There was a suicide at my wife's school last year, I forget the age. I think it was elementary school age. It was devastating to hear about. Not only were the parents apparently a fucking shitshow at home that led to it, but the kid had two siblings, once of which was a twin, left behind. They'll never recover or be normal. This stuff is happening more and more these days. 

[Willfully Horn 8259]

55 minutes ago, Nivek said:

4th grader committed suicide? What the ever loving fuck?

Yep. Took pills the day before the last day of school. The news was a kick in the nuts. We were at their school for the field day stuff when I learned what happened, and I was the one doubled over with shock and pain, and anger. Supposed to be a great public school, but the school failed that poor boy. Me, too, probably. I never even tried to check to see that he was being counseled.

[HenryJames 67329]

 

[pacman 7504]

[Biff Tannen 46163]

1 hour ago, pacman said:

I mean, at this point, I'm surprised anyone wants to be a teacher at all.  Low pay, low respect, might get blown up by a mass shooter.  Doesn't seem to be a lot of upsides.

[HenryJames 67329]

Well it’s apparently better than waiting tables.

[UpperWestside 6273]

7 hours ago, Nivek said:

4th grader committed suicide? What the ever loving fuck?

I believe the largest increase in the rate of suicide is children aged 5 to 11. I still cannot wrap my head around how incredibly sad that is.

[UpperWestside 6273]

48 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Well it’s apparently better than waiting tables.

This would be affirmative for most. I love serving, but I am in the minority there.

[SydneyCarton 49477]

11 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Well it’s apparently better than waiting tables.

I'll bet she'll be back waiting tables in a year. 

[tchookem 3968]

This would be affirmative for most. I love serving, but I am in the minority there.

If you're a waiter, at least you can fuck with shitty customers' food.

I'll bet she'll be back waiting tables in a year. 

Yeah, children have a way of weeding out the shittiest teachers really quickly. I know the talk recently had been about teachers leaving the profession... what's different now is that it's experienced, highly-regarded teachers that are leaving. Shitty teachers have always left the profession quickly, and the reason for that is children have zero tolerance for incompetence.

[SydneyCarton 49477]

1 minute ago, tchookem said:

If you're a waiter, at least you can fuck with shitty customers' food.




Yeah, children have a way of weeding out the shittiest teachers really quickly. I know the talk recently had been about teachers leaving the profession... what's different now is that it's experienced, highly-regarded teachers that are leaving. Shitty teachers have always left the profession quickly, and the reason for that is children have zero tolerance for incompetence.

I mean, pretty soon only shitty teachers will be left. Great teachers will keep flocking to private school or elsewhere. That's unchanged by any of this, imo.

But I do think a woman who has never taught, never had any formal education to teach, and who didn't even have to pass a test will specifically have almost no shot of making it in that profession. 

[CooterBrown 18288]

Here's a good thread on the teacher vacancies. Houston Metro is fucked.

 

 

[fattyflattie 4640]

1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

Here's a good thread on the teacher vacancies. Houston Metro is fucked.

 

 

We’ve been hit or miss at our school. I think an entire grade left, and they are tight on subs, but holding it together.  Much more and hand will probably be forced towards private.  

[tx 3 putt 78675]

14 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Well it’s apparently better than waiting tables.

Better benefits 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13729]

14 hours ago, pacman said:

Given that so many qualified teachers are leaving the profession, not only will the unqualified be allowed to teach, the school districts will be recruiting them. 

I could maybe agree to a path to allowing veterans with some college to be allowed to teach with some stipulations including a requirement of progress to their degree. But why in the world is a military spouse given special privilege to a job for which they have no training?  If DeSantis wants to give them jobs so badly, put them in state govt jobs.

[tx 3 putt 78675]

15 hours ago, pacman said:

those kids are going to eat her alive. She won’t last two weeks 

[tx 3 putt 78675]

9 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Given that so many qualified teachers are leaving the profession, not only will the unqualified be allowed to teach, the school districts will be recruiting them. 

I could maybe agree to a path to allowing veterans with some college to be allowed to teach with some stipulations including a requirement of progress to their degree. But why in the world is a military spouse given special privilege to a job for which they have no training?  If DeSantis wants to give them jobs so badly, put them in state govt jobs.

They might as well advertise …..

’Pedophiles apply here !’

[CooterBrown 18288]

Given that so many qualified teachers are leaving the profession, not only will the unqualified be allowed to teach, the school districts will be recruiting them. 
I could maybe agree to a path to allowing veterans with some college to be allowed to teach with some stipulations including a requirement of progress to their degree. But why in the world is a military spouse given special privilege to a job for which they have no training?  If DeSantis wants to give them jobs so badly, put them in state govt jobs.

Are spouses less qualified than veterans? Neither needs to be in a classroom without proper credentials.

Maybe extend that offer to long term substitute teachers first. They’re the most qualified of those without qualifications.

[SydneyCarton 49477]

1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

Are spouses less qualified than veterans? Neither needs to be in a classroom without proper credentials.

Maybe extend that offer to long term substitute teachers first. They’re the most qualified of those without qualifications.

 

Of course, in creepy AF ad tracking software fashion, naturally this snopes article was offered up to me on FB after I spent some time on this thread today discussing this topic...

Looks like we all got drug into the disinformation whirlpool by @pacman Do better, sir. 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/veterans-spouses-teaching-certificates/
 

False

About this rating

 

Context

A new law in Florida will allow U.S. military veterans to obtain a temporary teaching certificate without a bachelor’s degree, as long as they meet other education requirements. However, contrary to erroneous reports, military spouses are not eligible for the “Educator Certification Pathways for Veterans” program.

Edited July 28, 2022 by SydneyCarton

[Nice Guy Eddie 13729]

33 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

 

Of course, in creepy AF ad tracking software fashion, naturally this snopes article was offered up to me on FB after I spent some time on this thread today discussing this topic...

Looks like we all got drug into the disinformation whirlpool by @pacman Do better, sir. 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/veterans-spouses-teaching-certificates/
 

False

About this rating

 

Context

A new law in Florida will allow U.S. military veterans to obtain a temporary teaching certificate without a bachelor’s degree, as long as they meet other education requirements. However, contrary to erroneous reports, military spouses are not eligible for the “Educator Certification Pathways for Veterans” program.

The Florida education website is confusing about this program but has an edit to clarify the spouse benefits. Spouses can apply for free extensions of a teaching certificate that they received on their own. When the program was initially announced several news station incorrectly reported which led to more confusion.

[Captainant 28529]

Not about schools, but certainly a place of public education under attack from the religious right:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/aug/05/michigan-library-book-bans-lgbtq-authors

Hooray christian sharia law defunding libraries on the basis of regilous beliefs!

[Js1 87177]

28 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Not about schools, but certainly a place of public education under attack from the religious right:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/aug/05/michigan-library-book-bans-lgbtq-authors

Hooray christian sharia law defunding libraries on the basis of regilous beliefs!

[tx 3 putt 78675]

On 7/26/2022 at 4:16 PM, UpperWestside said:

I do not think that any of these zealot Christian school prayer warriors realize that they have opened schools to EVERY religion to try and do the same thing in schools. Unintended consequences and whatnot. I hope I see Rainn Wilson standing in front of a school in some rural East Texas school district promoting the Baha’i faith.

give it time, this country will soon have only one recognized religion 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19305]

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19453]

Most veterans are total dumbasses and have no reason to be teaching.

[Brew 3049]

Someone needs to ask him what knowledge they are bringing that is going to help an elementary/middle school kid at this point in their education. At this point they are just trying to get babysitters in class rooms.

It would have made a whole lot more sense to offer forgivable loans to veterans who want to finish out their degrees at a state school that is then forgiven if they teach for x number of years in a target school. I know several people that have graduated recently that are teaching at specific schools to get their loans forgiven. 

Both of our kids have been in private school since they were 2-3. The local schools here are a run down shit show and are in the middle of a constant battle with the county, city, NAACP, etc. I graduated from the public system and hated the private schools, but with 2 girls we had to do what was in their best interest long-term. I don’t think their education K-8 has been any better than mine was and in some cases I don’t think it was as good. The high school has made up for that. They focus on AP classes, ACT prep, have one college advisor per 25 or so seniors, etc. and really focus on pushing the kids to challenge themselves. It is really focused on what it takes to get scholarships for college.

[Js1 87177]

48 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Most veterans are total dumbasses and have no reason to be teaching.

Oh so like the average football coach teaching World History. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19453]

9 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Oh so like the average football coach teaching World History. 

Pretty much.  Just substitute CTE with PTSD.

47 minutes ago, Brew said:

Someone needs to ask him what knowledge they are bringing that is going to help an elementary/middle school kid at this point in their education.

How to take out mass shooters, duh.

[CooterBrown 18288]

The chef's kiss is going to be DeSantis suing local school districts for hiring qualified and certified new education graduates over unqualified military heroes.