The destruction of America's public education system

[Biff Tannen 45652]

2 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I’m not sure why they keep labeling DEI initiatives as racial discrimination (well I know why) but they do realize this harms Veterans, 1st Gen students, disabled students as well?

 

 

Do you think they care?

[tx 3 putt 76808]

In what fucked up world, does the govt threaten to disband entire college depts ?

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2662]

43 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I’m not sure why they keep labeling DEI initiatives as racial discrimination (well I know why) but they do realize this harms Veterans, 1st Gen students, disabled students as well?

 

 

Wait, Chris fucking Rufo is Ronny's appointee?? Da fuq? 

[atomheartbevo 89610]

6 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

In what fucked up world, does the govt threaten to disband entire college depts ?

A world where the governing party's voters are a bunch of fucking snowflakes who can't handle reality and can't handle change, and its party leadership is scared shitless of upsetting those snowflakes?

I'll admit it's fucking amazing that this is happening in 2023 and not 1953, but there you go.

[Captainant 27598]

13 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

A world where the governing party's voters are a bunch of fucking snowflakes who can't handle reality and can't handle change, and its party leadership is scared shitless of upsetting those snowflakes?

I'll admit it's fucking amazing that this is happening in 2023 and not 1953, but there you go.

Took ya long enough to stop believing the Shangri-la of the republican fascists giving up because they lost a couple elections. It's only gonna get worse and further balkanize the country as states become more and more regressive. 

[Shut up Lou Holtz 2026]

I guess I’m doxxing myself on where I live but had to fight back against these whack jobs coming to my neighborhood preaching about “communism in schools” and other Qanon bullshit. No one could explain what communism in schools means nor give any concrete evidence to it actually occurring. All they know how to do is spew buzz words. Crazy fuckers everywhere

[Biff Tannen 45652]

3 hours ago, Shut up Lou Holtz said:

I guess I’m doxxing myself on where I live but had to fight back against these whack jobs coming to my neighborhood preaching about “communism in schools” and other Qanon bullshit. No one could explain what communism in schools means nor give any concrete evidence to it actually occurring. All they know how to do is spew buzz words. Crazy fuckers everywhere

Belterra?  Not at all surprised.  Not.  At.  All.  

Good luck man.

[tx 3 putt 76808]

4 hours ago, Shut up Lou Holtz said:

I guess I’m doxxing myself on where I live but had to fight back against these whack jobs coming to my neighborhood preaching about “communism in schools” and other Qanon bullshit. No one could explain what communism in schools means nor give any concrete evidence to it actually occurring. All they know how to do is spew buzz words. Crazy fuckers everywhere

 

better skip the country, just to be safe 

[Nivek 16913]

Love Russia, pretend to hate communism, don't actually know what communism is, or fascism, or socialism, or capitalism, or anything really.  They are just against words that they hear of fox news.  

Are they against litter boxes for students in the class who identify as cats?  

CRT!!!!!!!

[WhatTheBuck 28764]

57 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Love Russia, pretend to hate communism, don't actually know what communism is, or fascism, or socialism, or capitalism, or anything really.  They are just against words that they hear of fox news.  

Are they against litter boxes for students in the class who identify as cats?  

CRT!!!!!!!

That about sums it up. 

[F250 28757]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

Love Russia, pretend to hate communism, don't actually know what communism is, or fascism, or socialism, or capitalism, or anything really.  They are just against words that they hear of fox news.  

Are they against litter boxes for students in the class who identify as cats?  

CRT!!!!!!!

[Willfully Horn 7986]

This belongs in here, imo. it is a great allegory as to why public schools are so important. Someone explain how vouchers can improve public schools to me, otherwise I am against them.

 

[pyrohornIII 4814]

That last part says it all:   ...for the value of a life is measured by the lives it touches. And those who choose to be happy must help others find happiness, for the welfare of each is bound up with the welfare of all...

 

[WhatTheBuck 28764]

On 2/24/2023 at 7:42 PM, Willfully Horn said:

This belongs in here, imo. it is a great allegory as to why public schools are so important. Someone explain how vouchers can improve public schools to me, otherwise I am against them.

 

Nowadays if your neighbor is growing genetically modified corn made by Monsanto to survive treatments by their Roundup pesticide, and if those genetics get blown into your cornfield and are found growing there, Monsanto can sue you. 

[TexPx 2322]

Yup. Quiet part out loud.

“CORSICANA — In this small city southeast of Dallas, where residents are protective of their public schools, Gov. Greg Abbott touted his plan to allow private school vouchers as necessary to give parents control of their children’s education.

“Parents are angry about woke agendas being pushed on their children in our schools,” Abbott said this week during a speech at Park Meadows Academy, a church and school that stresses a Christian education. “Our schools are for education, not indoctrination.”

As he made the argument that “parental empowerment” was needed to help filter what’s being taught in schools, Abbott said that empowerment should include creating a system where parents can use taxpayer-funded vouchers to send their children to private schools”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/texas-gov-greg-abbott-hits-road-to-tout-school-voucher-plan/ar-AA1868UY

[HamsterHookah 112]

2 hours ago, TexPx said:

Yup. Quiet part out loud.

“CORSICANA — In this small city southeast of Dallas, where residents are protective of their public schools, Gov. Greg Abbott touted his plan to allow private school vouchers as necessary to give parents control of their children’s education.

“Parents are angry about woke agendas being pushed on their children in our schools,” Abbott said this week during a speech at Park Meadows Academy, a church and school that stresses a Christian education. “Our schools are for education, not indoctrination.”

As he made the argument that “parental empowerment” was needed to help filter what’s being taught in schools, Abbott said that empowerment should include creating a system where parents can use taxpayer-funded vouchers to send their children to private schools”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/texas-gov-greg-abbott-hits-road-to-tout-school-voucher-plan/ar-AA1868UY

What’s the quiet part aloud in this article? This is straight forward and been the narrative the entire time; no subtext I’ve ever seen about any of this.

Edited March 2, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[UpperWestside 6159]

If you are sending your kids to a charter school you are part of the problem. I do not care to hear “Oh but our charter school is not like the rest of them.” You want your child to not be in a public school? Send them off to a private school where you are footing the entire bill. Charter schools exist for just one reason and that is to turn a profit for the investors in them. That is it. Hot wheels can pontificate all he wants about woke ideology and how it is an affront to western civilization or whatever, but that farce is just to take attention away from children being willfully used by adults to make money in these schools. I would be ashamed and embarrassed if I had a child and put them in a charter school. 

[TexPx 2322]

What’s the quiet part aloud in this article? This is straight forward and been the narrative the entire time; no subtext I’ve ever seen about any of this.

First time I’ve seen them admit the objective is to put a “filter” on what is being taught.

I looked up the school mentioned and they teach using the ABEKA Book curriculum. Apparently one of the top curriculums for Christian schools and homeschooling, along with ACE and Bob Jones University Press.

After reading excerpts from their history books, I will invoke my Sovereign Citizen rights if they try to make me help fund that insanity.

[RDCanecutter 26376]

4 hours ago, TexPx said:

Yup. Quiet part out loud.

“CORSICANA — In this small city southeast of Dallas, where residents are protective of their public schools, Gov. Greg Abbott touted his plan to allow private school vouchers as necessary to give parents control of their children’s education.

“Parents are angry about woke agendas being pushed on their children in our schools,” Abbott said this week during a speech at Park Meadows Academy, a church and school that stresses a Christian education. “Our schools are for education, not indoctrination.”

As he made the argument that “parental empowerment” was needed to help filter what’s being taught in schools, Abbott said that empowerment should include creating a system where parents can use taxpayer-funded vouchers to send their children to private schools”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/texas-gov-greg-abbott-hits-road-to-tout-school-voucher-plan/ar-AA1868UY

God forbid that Corsicana get woke.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13499]

Instead of giving vouchers to the parents of the children, give the vouchers to the tax payers. The people who the money once belonged to.

I live in Harris County but I would prefer to send my tax money to one of the poorer school districts in the Valley. I think it can do the most good there. Parents shouldn't get a voucher for any more money than they personally put into the school district.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

35 minutes ago, TexPx said:

First time I’ve seen them admit the objective is to put a “filter” on what is being taught.

I looked up the school mentioned and they teach using the ABEKA Book curriculum. Apparently one of the top curriculums for Christian schools and homeschooling, along with ACE and Bob Jones University Press.

After reading excerpts from their history books, I will invoke my Sovereign Citizen rights if they try to make me help fund that insanity.

The curriculum also rejects evolution I believe.

[TexPx 2322]

The curriculum also rejects evolution I believe.

BJU has a creationism textbook.

[Mole 4328]

We homeschool our kid. Some families that homeschool love to talk curriculum. One family that we are close with has used ABEKA at least in part, so they showed us some of the materials.

I looked through them with great care and interest and an open mind. The thought of educating my child with that nonsense broke my heart. It was horrifying — not because of its religious-based worldview — but because it was preposterously dumbed down. It is whatever you call the opposite of education.

It’s easy to get wrapped up in what facts are taught and miss the bigger picture of what an education is. Education should of course get the basic facts right, but there are more important issues.

ABEKA sucks because it condescends to the child. Whether it’s worldview is grounded in reality or a modern fundamentalist fantasy is mostly irrelevant. Even if the particular biblical interpretation behind their materials were 100% accurate to reality, ABEKA would still be the worst.

[Burt 4080]

15 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Nowadays if your neighbor is growing genetically modified corn made by Monsanto to survive treatments by their Roundup pesticide, and if those genetics get blown into your cornfield and are found growing there, Monsanto can will sue you. 

 

[fattyflattie 4639]

7 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Parents shouldn't get a voucher for any more money than they personally put into the school district.

This is going to be a popular opinion on this board.  I wish we were getting the education we actually pay for.  Sign me up. 

[BevoAbyss 2058]

I long ago realized that "school choice" is code for "school Christian."

The family's goal is kids raised on creationism and all kinds of anti-science idiocy, fact-free faith, and bogus world history. The GQP and Christian leadership goal is a nation ruled by the Bible, not the Constitution or any other secular ideas. Soon they'll be teaching that Jesus lassoed dinosaurs and convened with "Ancient Aliens" in the "Garden of Eden" on a flat earth created by "God" 6,000 years ago—all for the Christians to rule. Hell, that's probably on page one of their "history" book. 

The attack on secular education began with Reagan and Falwell and the "Moral Majority." The trajectory goes like this:

Moral Majority (1980s) >>> United We Stand (1990s) >>> Tea Party (2000s) >>> MAGA (2010s-2020s).

We can laugh and roll our eyes, but make no mistake: GQP's end goal is an iron-fisted fascist theocracy for Flat Earth America.

Edited March 3, 2023 by BevoAbyss
typo

[HamsterHookah 112]

15 hours ago, TexPx said:

BJU has a creationism textbook.

We use and like BJU. Ymmv

[Gap03 3298]

1 hour ago, HamsterHookah said:

We use and like BJU. Ymmv

[tokamak 6383]

19 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

If you are sending your kids to a charter school you are part of the problem. I do not care to hear “Oh but our charter school is not like the rest of them.” You want your child to not be in a public school? Send them off to a private school where you are footing the entire bill. Charter schools exist for just one reason and that is to turn a profit for the investors in them. That is it. Hot wheels can pontificate all he wants about woke ideology and how it is an affront to western civilization or whatever, but that farce is just to take attention away from children being willfully used by adults to make money in these schools. I would be ashamed and embarrassed if I had a child and put them in a charter school. 

This is 100%, incontrovertibly correct. Several decades ago, greedy people noticed how much money the government spends on education and thought to themselves, "we need to get a piece of that pie" and created the "school choice" movement. Everything that followed is just a means to that end, no matter what kind of message is wrapped around it. Anti-wokeness is just the newest (completely made-up) attack front.

I can't describe how sad this all makes me. I have two children in Texas public schools. I am thoroughly convinced that the bill that's being pushed this year in the lege will utterly decimate the public school system, especially the big urban districts. How could it not?

[Captainant 27598]

36 minutes ago, tokamak said:

I can't describe how sad this all makes me. I have two children in Texas public schools. I am thoroughly convinced that the bill that's being pushed this year in the lege will utterly decimate the public school system, especially the big urban districts. How could it not?

It's completely outrageous too - our fucking state constitution mandates "the support and maintenance of PUBLIC SCHOOLS"

Edited March 3, 2023 by Captainant

[pyrohornIII 4814]

1 hour ago, tokamak said:

This is 100%, incontrovertibly correct. Several decades ago, greedy people noticed how much money the government spends on education and thought to themselves, "we need to get a piece of that pie" and created the "school choice" movement. Everything that followed is just a means to that end, no matter what kind of message is wrapped around it. Anti-wokeness is just the newest (completely made-up) attack front.

I can't describe how sad this all makes me. I have two children in Texas public schools. I am thoroughly convinced that the bill that's being pushed this year in the lege will utterly decimate the public school system, especially the big urban districts. How could it not?

This is the same state that refuses to expand Medicaid funds to the tune of 6 billion a year.  That's heartless in how many people could be getting better healthcare, live better lives longer.  Not to mention the boost it would give the economy.  So yeah, they don't give a shit if Texans die, so why would we think they give a damn if anyone is educated?    Rinse and repeat with stories like grid failure.  

46 minutes ago, Captainant said:

It's completely outrageous too - our fucking state constitution mandates "the support and maintenance of PUBLIC SCHOOLS"

They won't stop supporting or maintaining.  They will simply reduce the effort and send some of that money to non public entities.  Just like the moronic private prison scam of the 80s and 90s.  Same for public roads going to tollways?

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by pyrohornIII
added tollway comment

[nbmishoid 949]

Mo cruelty 

[pyrohornIII 4814]

So he's rolling into Bryan with his dog and pony show next Tuesday.  I need some ideas for signs to take to the protest.  

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Public schools are for patriots.

Charter schools are for politicians.

[HamsterHookah 112]

38 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Public schools are for patriots.

Charter schools are for politicians.

Private schools are for ______?

[pyrohornIII 4814]

Privileged?

[fattyflattie 4639]

6 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

Private schools are for ______?

Prioritized academics. 

[Biff Tannen 45652]

7 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

So he's rolling into Bryan with his dog and pony show next Tuesday.  I need some ideas for signs to take to the protest.  

 

“You suck you crippled asshole!”

Too on the nose?

[SL Xpress 7513]

14 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

This is the same state that refuses to expand Medicaid funds to the tune of 6 billion a year.  That's heartless in how many people could be getting better healthcare, live better lives longer.  Not to mention the boost it would give the economy.  So yeah, they don't give a shit if Texans die, so why would we think they give a damn if anyone is educated?    Rinse and repeat with stories like grid failure.  

They won't stop supporting or maintaining.  They will simply reduce the effort and send some of that money to non public entities.  Just like the moronic private prison scam of the 80s and 90s.  Same for public roads going to tollways?

 

I don't understand what you mean by private prison scams of the 80s and 90s. They're still very active as far as I know. To the tune of about 8% of the total prison population. 

My big problem with private prisons is that the justice system is one of those places you should never introduce a profit motive. It will inherently corrupt the justice system. By its nature. In about a dozen ways. It's a horrible idea. Might as well have private police forces and private firefighting. Which, of course, we do in places. There's no justice system that's going to be anywhere close to perfect. But it's a good idea to start by not purposefully destroying it from the inside. Which is what private prisons do.

Public roads going to tollways is more a case of government bureaucracy at work and how we measure things. The federal government long ago, in a good intent way, began emphasizing various methods of getting the biggest bang for their federal buck. A part of that was to emphasize road projects that came up with more than the 10% from local entities that put them on the list. It was found that local entities could form a quasi government organization, the equivalent of a municipal utility district, sell bonds to finance the construction, use those bonds to up the ante from 10% to 20% or 30%, and then suddenly that project got bumped to the top of the federal list. And then the maintenance of those bonds are sold to a contractor who was able to profit off the difference collected versus what had to be applied to pay off the bond. 

Like many activities of government, there are all kinds of consequences. But the core value - stretch the impact of federal highway transportation dollars by encouraging local entities to put more skin in the game - wasn't evil, per se. But once a government program is funded, you're automatically going to create a group that benefits from that funding, and they're going to do their best to expand its use, as well as try to discover ways to exploit it. But that's true no matter who the beneficiary is. Then it becomes a matter of which beneficiaries do you identify with the most politically. 

I'll also say I'm not against the idea of paying for road use in high traffic areas at premium times - but only if the resulting revenue is used to support and subsidize a robust public transportation system. But I don't know of a case where that has happened specifically. Which makes no sense to me. 

Public transportation will never be revenue neutral, and it shouldn't be expected to. What better place to generate revenue to support it than high traffic areas at peak hours?

On the Charter School discussion, one of my best friends taught at Austin Discovery School for years. This idea that all charter schools are profit centers is an extremely broad generalization. Doesn't mean it has no merit, but that's certainly not the case 100% of the time. That school for sure was no profit center. They barely kept the doors open. 

I'll also say our schools have fundamental issues that go far beyond the implementation of charter schools. If charter schools ceased to exist tomorrow we'd still be in serious trouble. The biggest problem with public schools in my opinion is that parents naturally want to give their child every advantage they can, and one of the biggest ways to do that is to make sure they're enrolled in the place that can provide the best education. Which is invariably a lot more expensive to attend than a public school available to other students. Then there's also the issue of how do you provide a better equality of opportunity when so much of a child's education is determined by their home environment. We're not taking children away from their parents en masse at birth to place them in government housing. But regardless, what we are doing right now cements and perpetuates those issues rather than addressing them.

I also have a fundamental problem with how the school system incentivizes ambition. The most ambitious school teachers are always going to seek out administration jobs rather than stay in the classroom, because it's the only method to maximize their pay. If there was some kind of equitable way of rewarding the best teachers financially for staying in the classroom, I'd be all for it. But any measuring stick I come up with is fraught with its own issues. That doesn't mean something shouldn't be sought out, though. Trying to keep the best educators in the classroom would be a seismic shift in certain ways in terms of how we view public education in this country.

[Snake Diggity 4616]

On 3/3/2023 at 3:26 PM, HamsterHookah said:

Private schools are for ______?

Social segregation and religious indoctrination.

[Snake Diggity 4616]

19 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Prioritized academics. 

Near 80% of private school students attend a school affiliated with a religion.  You think their #1 priority is academics?

[nbmishoid 949]

Nah, we talkin just Fattie’s kids’school

[Neonmoon 38129]

1 hour ago, Snake Diggity said:

Near 80% of private school students attend a school affiliated with a religion.  You think their #1 priority is academics?

The #1 priority of private schools is to keep the poor away 

[mchookem 16306]

20 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Prioritized academics. 

[BevoAbyss 2058]

On 2/16/2023 at 2:52 PM, tx 3 putt said:

In what fucked up world, does the govt threaten to disband entire college depts ?

In the world of a fascist Flat Earth America ruled by GQP-MAGA.

It's the world emerging right before our eyes. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Snake Diggity said:

Social segregation and religious indoctrination.

bingo.

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The #1 priority of private schools is to keep the poor away 

Not if they can hit the midrange J or rush the quarterback.

It's way more about race and controlling curriculum than socio-economics, IMHO.  It's also  a financial statement that suggests they are doing everything they can for their kids, regardless of the truth.  An easing of conscience for some...

Edited March 5, 2023 by slorch

[HamsterHookah 112]

4 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

Social segregation and religious indoctrination.

Bingo

[Biff Tannen 45652]

I don’t know where @BevoAbyss came from, but he/she needs a spot on the Ledge committee. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19170]

On 3/3/2023 at 6:02 AM, BevoAbyss said:

The GQP and Christian leadership goal is a nation ruled by the Bible, not the Constitution or any other secular ideas.

Sounds a lot like indoctrination to me.