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2022 Tour de Francis

Knoxtnhorn

By Knoxtnhorn
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Horn Dogg

Horn Dogg 3807

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4 hours ago, locodos said:

Sure Vingegaard looks like a cover model for Punchable Face Quarterly, but he seems like a nice guy/husband/father/teammate who it just so happens was cursed with fish lips.

He’s a good dude, but there’s nothing exciting about watching him sit up there with the strongest team and dominate.  Pretty much makes him just like Froome.

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Txzen
Txzen

Did a Spandelles and Aubisque double years ago, from the opposite direction today. Spandelles was supposed to be the easy warm up with a 5.5% avg gradient. What that ended up with was a km of 3% then

Jerry Callo
Jerry Callo

I think the people with the flares piss me off almost as much as anyone. Can you imagine struggling for air going up a 10% climb and sucking in a lung full of that crap.

locodos
locodos

I don't know how I missed that...  outstanding!

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locodos

locodos 5330

Posted
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9 minutes ago, Horn Dogg said:

He’s a good dude, but there’s nothing exciting about watching him sit up there with the strongest team and dominate.  Pretty much makes him just like Froome.

Well he made his first real gains in the TT.  Hell of a ride.    Just him, all by himself, flying down the road. 

 

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G650

G650 14074

Posted
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17 minutes ago, Horn Dogg said:

He’s a good dude, but there’s nothing exciting about watching him sit up there with the strongest team and dominate.  Pretty much makes him just like Froome.

The difference is Froome is an absolute shit head.

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Horn Dogg

Horn Dogg 3807

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1 minute ago, G650 said:

Every action the dude has ever under took? He and his wife are horrible humans

I’m not a fan of him at all.  He was all up on the GW1516 and motors in his wheel and stuff, but I don’t know what him and his wife are like personally.

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Horn Dogg

Horn Dogg 3807

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9 minutes ago, G650 said:

There's a lot. From intimidating journalists to screwing over supposed friends, to the latest whining about get left off blaming it on his equipment.

Man he needs to retire like 4 years ago.  Can’t blame him for soaking up $6 million/year though, I would do the same.

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Bevo

Bevo 13516

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Doping question. can we assume that all of the top riders are doping? Wiggins, Froome, Thomas, Bernal, I assume were all doping through a very systematic approach. But, after they switched teams or got injured or lost they never came back to the top. Roglic almost won the tour a few years ago but lost it after Tadej had the time trial of his life. This time Tadej lost it after Jonas had the time trial of his life. It is hard to understand why after these guys lose that they just disappear. Based on recent history, I assume Tadej will now disappear also. Is there a hidden story here? 
 

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Hornius Emeritus

Hornius Emeritus 12408

Posted
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5 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Doping question. can we assume that all of the top riders are doping? Wiggins, Froome, Thomas, Bernal, I assume were all doping through a very systematic approach. But, after they switched teams or got injured or lost they never came back to the top. Roglic almost won the tour a few years ago but lost it after Tadej had the time trial of his life. This time Tadej lost it after Jonas had the time trial of his life. It is hard to understand why after these guys lose that they just disappear. Based on recent history, I assume Tadej will now disappear also. Is there a hidden story here? 
 


Roglic won the Giro in May.  It's impossible to peak in May for one grand tour and then again in July. 

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Horn Dogg

Horn Dogg 3807

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bevo said:

Doping question. can we assume that all of the top riders are doping? Wiggins, Froome, Thomas, Bernal, I assume were all doping through a very systematic approach. But, after they switched teams or got injured or lost they never came back to the top. Roglic almost won the tour a few years ago but lost it after Tadej had the time trial of his life. This time Tadej lost it after Jonas had the time trial of his life. It is hard to understand why after these guys lose that they just disappear. Based on recent history, I assume Tadej will now disappear also. Is there a hidden story here? 
 

Wiggins hated cycling and wanted to quit.  Froome got old and then had a career ending injury.  Roglic is getting old and never won the tour in the first place.  Thomas won because Froome did the Giro before the tour and then he got old.  Bernal had a career ending injury and wasn’t able to follow Pog before the injury.

Pogacar is still only 24-25ish, he’s got at least 5-6 more good years where he could win.  
 

Im sure most of the world tour riders are doing some kind of doping.  I have a friend that is a retired pro and worked with Dr. Ferrari (the Michael Jordan of doping doctors).  He said Ferrari told him details of the programs he had Nibali and Froome following during their heyday years.

Edited by Horn Dogg
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idigTexas

idigTexas 2265

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20 hours ago, Horn Dogg said:

Wiggins hated cycling and wanted to quit.  Froome got old and then had a career ending injury.  Roglic is getting old and never won the tour in the first place.  Thomas won because Froome did the Giro before the tour and then he got old.  Bernal had a career ending injury and wasn’t able to follow Pog before the injury.

Pogacar is still only 24-25ish, he’s got at least 5-6 more good years where he could win.  
 

Im sure most of the world tour riders are doing some kind of doping.  I have a friend that is a retired pro and worked with Dr. Ferrari (the Michael Jordan of doping doctors).  He said Ferrari told him details of the programs he had Nibali and Froome following during their heyday years.

Pogačar is 24, and is still competing for the White Jersey.  Barring a career ending event or mental burn out, his best years are ahead of him.  
Vingegaard is 26, and is also on the young side of professional cyclists.

Over the past several years, the average age of riders in Le Tour is 28.5.  Average winner age is 27-29, depending on how far back you go.  

As for doping, all teams are better than ever at managing nutrition, especially when it comes to recovery.  They also constantly push the envelope regarding technology and what the human body can accomplish.  Are rules being broken?  It would not surprise me.  What would surprise me would be if there is a single team or rider that is doing things to gain a competitive advantage that other riders and teams aren't. 

I'm firmly in the "if one rider is cheating, then they all are" camp.  If your rider isn't winning, it's because he isn't as good or is dealing with an issue that is impacting his condition.  It's not because only one guy/team is cheating.  

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52-80

52-80 19076

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17 hours ago, idigTexas said:

Are rules being broken?  It would not surprise me.  What would surprise me would be if there is a single team or rider that is doing things to gain a competitive advantage that other riders and teams aren't. 

I'm firmly in the "if one rider is cheating, then they all are" camp.  If your rider isn't winning, it's because he isn't as good or is dealing with an issue that is impacting his condition.  It's not because only one guy/team is cheating.  

The nuance is that different teams have difference resource advantage that translates into different sophistication in terms of doping. 

Much easier to impose technical regulations on equipment (like in F1) than on human biology... so it just has to be accepted reality that some riders/teams are always *knowingly* conducting unfair and unethical behavior. 

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Horn Dogg

Horn Dogg 3807

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2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

The nuance is that different teams have difference resource advantage that translates into different sophistication in terms of doping. 

Much easier to impose technical regulations on equipment (like in F1) than on human biology... so it just has to be accepted reality that some riders/teams are always *knowingly* conducting unfair and unethical behavior. 

From what I understand (mostly from my friend who is a former pro cyclist) is that the team systematic doping is a thing of the past.  He wasn’t even aware of who was doing what within his own team, but it was obvious when someone improved by 5% overnight.

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idigTexas

idigTexas 2265

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, 52-80 said:

The nuance is that different teams have difference resource advantage that translates into different sophistication in terms of doping. 

Much easier to impose technical regulations on equipment (like in F1) than on human biology... so it just has to be accepted reality that some riders/teams are always *knowingly* conducting unfair and unethical behavior. 

Sure, but I would expect top teams with the best riders to be on an equal playing field in that regard. 

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Jerry Callo

Jerry Callo 8663

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Horn Dogg said:

Anyone watching the Women’s tour?  They crash all the time, so that keeps it entertaining.

I watched Stage 1 this morning while on my trainer.  Fast forwarded a bunch and missed any crashes.  I don't like the replay on Peacock because you can't see what is going on.  Used to be able to stop the ff when there was a crash or something else interesting.

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Bevo

Bevo 13516

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 7/24/2023 at 1:32 PM, idigTexas said:

Pogačar is 24, and is still competing for the White Jersey.  Barring a career ending event or mental burn out, his best years are ahead of him.  
Vingegaard is 26, and is also on the young side of professional cyclists.

Over the past several years, the average age of riders in Le Tour is 28.5.  Average winner age is 27-29, depending on how far back you go.  

As for doping, all teams are better than ever at managing nutrition, especially when it comes to recovery.  They also constantly push the envelope regarding technology and what the human body can accomplish.  Are rules being broken?  It would not surprise me.  What would surprise me would be if there is a single team or rider that is doing things to gain a competitive advantage that other riders and teams aren't. 

I'm firmly in the "if one rider is cheating, then they all are" camp.  If your rider isn't winning, it's because he isn't as good or is dealing with an issue that is impacting his condition.  It's not because only one guy/team is cheating.  

I got into cycling when Armstrong was doing his thing. Phil Liggett and Bob Roll won’t even mention his name. Meanwhile Liggett use to go crazy for Froome. I’m under the impression that everyone was cheating during Armstrong’s tenure and the only reason he was caught was because he was a dick, Lemond was jealous that someone else was getting all the attention and all of Lemond’s buddies and Armstrong haters wanted to see him get punished.

So when I see a time trialist beat the second place guy by a few minutes and hear about the guy having the ride of his life, I’m very skeptical and probably a little bitter. US cycling was killed by US cyclists while the rest of the world continues the same old shit but with new and improved methods. 

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Whitewater Horn

Whitewater Horn 965

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Here's the final break. Van Der Poel is a BEAST!  Hard to believe Wout couldn't go with him and Pogo wilted.

 

 

Wout was cooked by that point, and I surprised he was able to even make an initial burst and try to get the wheel on MVdP’s attack. Then to hold off Bettiol, Poga, and Pedersen for silver was impressive. Great to see MVdP finally get that world championship. 

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