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Boo fucking Hoo Brittney Griner

Gil Bang

By Gil Bang
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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12771

Posted
Posted
Just now, MNLonghornFUKM said:


Way to go Britt!! I think you’re directing the words bumfuck, moron, brain dead etc insults to the wrong American.

I’m sure you think that way. I’m also sure I’m directing them at exactly the right person who consistently proves that he has the intelligence of a GED holder.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17420

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


So no, and we knew it.It took griner being a dumbass to even attempt to get whelan swapped. Throw it at the wall and see if it sticks.

Nothing about that tweet suggests there wasn't prior attempts made for Whelan's release. Public statements from both the Trump and Biden administrations state that the government attempting to negotiate his release from 2019 to present. 

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'stache

'stache 21743

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


So no, and we knew it.It took griner being a dumbass to even attempt to get whelan swapped. Throw it at the wall and see if it sticks.

How about the prior administrations exchange for Trevor Reed? Why didn't they demand Whelan too? I'm sure you're just furious about that one too.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12771

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Posted
1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Nothing about that tweet suggests there wasn't prior attempts made for Whelan's release. Public statements from both the Trump and Biden administrations state that the government attempting to negotiate his release from 2019 to present. 

Get your facts outta here. That’s not how they do things in Minnesota 

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Skipper

Skipper 6088

Posted
Posted

I'm glad she's out but pissed her and her dumbass Agent put the US in a position where they had to release a bad guy/political asset and give fucking Putin a massive PR win because Brittany and her team are absolute morons (returning to Russia during a Level 4 Travel Advisory). I'm sure Biden loved handing the right another thing to criticize him about when he was forced into a no-win situation. The entire episode was pure idiocy on her part.  Obviously she paid the price for it but it still sucks all the way around.

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KYHorn

KYHorn 16806

Posted
Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Just trade for Whelan? Why didn’t they think of that. It’s so simple.

I said it in a different thread that was moved here, and prior to seeing that the Russians refused a 1 to 1 for Whelan. Regardless the central point is that we just accepted a clearly asymmetrical deal and it seems many are unwilling to admit this. As others have noted, Marc Fogel is being held on similar charges as Griner. At least a 2 for 1 would be more appropriate, though still probably not proportional. If you have any doubts about this, watch this 60 Minutes report on who we're talking about here, and the lengths to which the US went to capture him:

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/viktor-bout-2010-60-minutes-archive/  

We should fight to bring every American home, we can be happy for Griner and her family that she is out of a terrible situation, we can be saddened for Fogel, Whalen, and others who are still not home, and we can admit that this was a lopsided deal. All of these emotions and thoughts can be held at the same time and without cognitive dissonance.

Edited by KYHorn
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Gengs1

Gengs1 2583

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Woland said:

It’s unfortunate that Griner made herself such a convenient arrest, but given the circumstances of the war, if the Russians wanted to arrest an American, they could have just picked someone else.

No anybody, they needed a high profile to damage the administration and hurt them on the trail for votes.

she was just a good high profile toy  

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27373

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Posted

Whelan seems pretty sketchy. I wonder if he was in corporate rather than govt espionage (I know on the Russian side they are the same). No one with his disciplinary background is going to be hired as a legit govt spook. Also has US, Canadian and Irish passports

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12771

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

I said it in a different thread that was moved here, and prior to seeing that the Russians refused a 1 to 1 for Whelan. Regardless, we just accepted a clearly asymmetrical deal and it seems many are unwilling to admit this. As others have noted, Marc Fogel is being held on similar charges as Griner. At least a 2 for 1 would be more appropriate, though still probably not proportional. If you have any doubts about this, watch this 60 Minutes report on who we're talking about here, and the lengths to which the US went to capture him:

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/viktor-bout-2010-60-minutes-archive/  

I know exactly who we are talking about and what he has done. 
I’m also smart enough to understand that we weren’t going to get a symmetrical deal with Russia while they are at war with on of our allies. The job shouldn’t be about getting an even deal. That would be great but welcome to the world. The job is to get as many Americans home as we can. Make the deal that can be made not hope for the perfect deal. This isn’t an NBA trade. This is about people’s lives and if getting an uneven deal means we can get even one more American home safely then we do it.

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royiv

royiv 9131

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Posted
36 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


was there a whelan for bout offer prior to griner getting arrested?

If you were wrongfully imprisoned in Russia what would an appropriate trade be? If Bout was the offer would you tell the US government to not take the deal?

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17420

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

I said it in a different thread that was moved here, and prior to seeing that the Russians refused a 1 to 1 for Whelan. Regardless, we just accepted a clearly asymmetrical deal and it seems many are unwilling to admit this. As others have noted, Marc Fogel is being held on similar charges as Griner. At least a 2 for 1 would be more appropriate, though still probably not proportional. If you have any doubts about this, watch this 60 Minutes report on who we're talking about here, and the lengths to which the US went to capture him:

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/viktor-bout-2010-60-minutes-archive/  

He served the majority of his sentence. She was just starting a long, unjust sentence. While it may be an asymmetrical deal, I'm not convinced that is "clear." I'm also not sure why it matters whether we accept the deal was asymmetrical or not. It was the only deal to be made.  

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28700

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Posted
44 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I also love how the usual crowd continue on about what a bad person Griner is, usually more about kneeling for the anthem and less about domestic stuff, and crowing about Whelan, whose personal character is, lets say, somewhat questionable. n

It was during his final tour in Iraq that Whelan was charged with larceny after trying to steal $10,000 and bouncing about $6,000 in checks, according to the Washington Post. He also used another person's Social Security number in trying to advance his own rank and pay. He was court-martialed and discharged for bad conduct in 2008. 

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/01/07/paul-whelan-michigan-spy-russia/2496053002/

Well, that makes it a lot less likely that he was working for American intelligence. So that supports his story. 

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KYHorn

KYHorn 16806

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

As someone else said upthread, if you were Brittany Griner would you ask the govt not to make a deal unless it was symmetrical?

Of course I wouldn't. I'd advocate for myself as much as possible. I hope you see that this is not the point being discussed here. 

3 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

That we should do everything in our power to bring Americans home? Yes I do. Crazy stuff 

2 minutes ago, royiv said:

You don't? 

The quote was: This is about people’s lives and if getting an uneven deal means we can get even one more American home safely then we do it.

The logical consequences of this approach are far-reaching and not tenable if adopted as policy. I don't have time to debate this further. 

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14167

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12 minutes ago, Constant said:

Did they give him some time served? He was sentenced in 2012. 

According to CBS News he was due to be released in 2029:  

Quote

Bout was sentenced to 25 years in prison. Now 55 years old, he had not been due to be released until August 2029, according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons website. 

 

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'stache

'stache 21743

Posted
Posted
Just now, KYHorn said:

Of course I wouldn't. I'd advocate for myself as much as possible. I hope you see that this is not the point being discussed here. 

The quote was: This is about people’s lives and if getting an uneven deal means we can get even one more American home safely then we do it.

The logical consequences of this approach are far-reaching and not tenable if adopted as policy. I don't have time to debate this further. 

I'm pretty sure the calculus would be different if he had served 1 year instead of 14. Also, for all the terribleness of his crimes, how did he only get 25 years? And if it was terrorist related why was he in prison and not at Guantanamo or something?

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MNLonghornFUKM

MNLonghornFUKM 8799

Posted
Posted
If you were wrongfully imprisoned in Russia what would an appropriate trade be? If Bout was the offer would you tell the US government to not take the deal?

Yes. I’d love it if they took the deal as I’m imprisoned in bumfuck russia.

Griner should be fuckin thrilled this happened. Has a single defender has called griner a moron for getting herself in this predicament? Or we just gonna roll with wrongfully imprisoned?


She’s an idiot who was wrongfully imprisoned. I’m glad she’s out. It took a lot to get her out.
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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28700

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Posted
47 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Why didn't Daddy Donald get Whelan out since Whelan was arrested and imprisoned during his presidency? 

I heard it's just so easy to negotiate prisoner releases.

Because he loves Putin and he, the GOP, and the NRA were in cahoots with Maria Butina and whatever campaign she was waging here on the part of Russian intelligence. Trump was constantly doing Putin’s bidding. He couldn’t get tough with Butina and use her as leverage because they were working the same side. One of Butina’s consorts was the overstock.com CEO who wound up in the unauthorized meeting at the White House with Sidney Powell and Michael Flynn on 12/18/20 to plot a coup. Trump couldn’t hold any leverage over Putin because he was too busy sucking Vlad’s dick.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12771

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Posted
5 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

Of course I wouldn't. I'd advocate for myself as much as possible. I hope you see that this is not the point being discussed here. 

The quote was: This is about people’s lives and if getting an uneven deal means we can get even one more American home safely then we do it.

The logical consequences of this approach are far-reaching and not tenable if adopted as policy. I don't have time to debate this further. 

Ron Swanson Smile GIF

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Enchubben

Enchubben 5509

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Posted
26 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I know exactly who we are talking about and what he has done. 
I’m also smart enough to understand that we weren’t going to get a symmetrical deal with Russia while they are at war with on of our allies. The job shouldn’t be about getting an even deal. That would be great but welcome to the world. The job is to get as many Americans home as we can. Make the deal that can be made not hope for the perfect deal. This isn’t an NBA trade. This is about people’s lives and if getting an uneven deal means we can get even one more American home safely then we do it.

If the goal is to bring home Americans safely - perhaps not releasing someone that was actively trying to sell surface to air missiles and airplanes with grenade launchers designed to take down US airmen would be an alternative strategy.

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'stache

'stache 21743

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Posted
4 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


Yes. I’d love it if they took the deal as I’m imprisoned in bumfuck russia.

Griner should be fuckin thrilled this happened. Has a single defender has called griner a moron for getting herself in this predicament? Or we just gonna roll with wrongfully imprisoned?


She’s an idiot who was wrongfully imprisoned. I’m glad she’s out. It took a lot to get her out.

Yes, it was stupid, and also sounds like a mistake, leaving the vape in her luggage after a prior trip and forgetting about it when she packed for Russia (even if she tried to sneak it in, the punishment is still unjust).

Have you hateful types ever acknowledged that Whelan was a scumbag who was dishonorably discharged for tried to defraud the Army and was fucking around way worse when he found out? Or are you still going with "Ex-Marine Patriot" to support your hate?

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royiv

royiv 9131

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Posted
5 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


Yes. I’d love it if they took the deal as I’m imprisoned in bumfuck russia.

Griner should be fuckin thrilled this happened. Has a single defender has called griner a moron for getting herself in this predicament? Or we just gonna roll with wrongfully imprisoned?


She’s an idiot who was wrongfully imprisoned. I’m glad she’s out. It took a lot to get her out.

I've seen a bunch if people on this thread say she was a moron for putting herself in a bad predicament. I'm also in that camp. That said, people do dumb things. Griner was dumb to even travel to Russia when she did given the geopolitical landscape. Doesn't change the fact that she was wrongfully imprisoned.

I guess I don't understand why you're bellyaching about the deal if you would have accepted the same deal for yourself and you're glad she's coming home.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12771

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

If the goal is to bring home Americans safely - perhaps not releasing someone that was actively trying to sell surface to air missiles and airplanes with grenade launchers designed to take down US airmen would be an alternative strategy.

Yea we probably should just leave them there to rot.

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royiv

royiv 9131

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

If the goal is to bring home Americans safely - perhaps not releasing someone that was actively trying to sell surface to air missiles and airplanes with grenade launchers designed to take down US airmen would be an alternative strategy.

Bout was going to be deported to Russia when he was released from prison here. I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of difference if that happens in late 2022 or in 2029.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12771

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Posted
2 minutes ago, royiv said:

I've seen a bunch if people on this thread say she was a moron for putting herself in a bad predicament. I'm also in that camp. That said, people do dumb things. Griner was dumb to even travel to Russia when she did given the geopolitical landscape. Doesn't change the fact that she was wrongfully imprisoned.

I guess I don't understand why you're bellyaching about the deal if you would have accepted the same deal for yourself and you're glad she's coming home.

You do understand why. We all do. 

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38127

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Posted
4 hours ago, KYHorn said:

Then trade for Whalen. This would still be weak regardless, but at least it'd fair between the two individuals. I'm of course assuming there wasn't a secret part to this deal, but given the political pressures, a straight 1 to 1 seems most likely, and by most objective measures, lopsided. If you can't see that, you might check your priors. We'd say the same about Whalen, while still being happy for the individual and their family, as most normal people are in the present situation, but it can be both a happy situation and a weak and unfair one at the same time. 

Russia wouldn’t release Griner unless we released a fucking arms dealer. What do you think they’re asking in exchange for an accused Spy? Maybe, just maybe, we’re trying everything we can 

we already have people bitching because we released the arms dealer while at the same bitching we should do more to get Whelan released. 
 

 

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17420

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9 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

If the goal is to bring home Americans safely - perhaps not releasing someone that was actively trying to sell surface to air missiles and airplanes with grenade launchers designed to take down US airmen would be an alternative strategy.

He was returning to Russia in a few years either way. I don't think the extra time makes much difference. We now know about him, his contacts, and presumably a whole lot more that was learned in connection with his arrest. That information is the true prize, not having this one individual in prison for a few more years.  

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