Boo fucking Hoo Brittney Griner

[jimmyjazz 47298]

Bout was arrested in 2008.  He was scheduled for release in August, 2029.  That's roughly 6.5 years from now.  He was always headed back to Russia, assuming he didn't die in prison.

His VALUE as trade bait drops every year in custody.  If we were going to get something for him, we needed to do it soon.  One could argue that Donald Trump should have brokered a deal earlier, say for Reed & Whelan, when we had the leverage.  But hey, that's history.  We're mad now because Biden did it, and we're all-politics-all-the-time asshats like @MNLonghornFUKM.

[royiv 9875]

4 minutes ago, yoladu said:

Who deemed him the most dangerous person in the world? The most dangerous person in the world was set to be released in 2029? hmmm

We gave up the 6 remaining years of his sentence. As some one else stated earlier in this thread - his value to us was depreciating every day. In a couple of years, we wouldn't be able to trade him for more than a couple of bottles of Russian vodka.

It's funny to me that Minny hasn't addressed this topic despite it being pointed out to him multiple times. He has latched on to the world's most dangerous man moniker like a chihuahua humping a leg.

[atomheartbevo 90670]

11 minutes ago, yoladu said:

Who deemed him the most dangerous person in the world? The most dangerous person in the world was set to be released in 2029? hmmm

We gave up the 6 remaining years of his sentence. As some one else stated earlier in this thread - his value to us was depreciating every day. In a couple of years, we wouldn't be able to trade him for more than a couple of bottles of Russian vodka.

He doesn’t exactly have a lot of arms to traffic these days as it is (and people like him are probably the reason the Russian military is so gutted) but the optics are bad.

['stache 22146]

I found this on wikipedia. I'm getting the sense that he was a bad bad dude, but the "Lord of War" persona might be a bit overstated, including for Hollywood purposes.

Bout was convicted by a jury at a federal court in Manhattan on 2 November 2011.^[14] On 5 April 2012, he was sentenced to 25 years in prison, the minimum sentence for conspiring to sell weapons to a U.S.-designated foreign terrorist group.^[79][80] US District Court Judge Shira Scheindlin ruled that the minimum sentence was appropriate because "there was no evidence that Bout would have committed the crimes for which he was convicted had it not been for the sting operation".^[79]

[Gatorubet 30783]

2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

You offered no evidence just an unfounded opinion.

Waitaminute!!……I thought that was Surly’s essence. 

[WhatTheBuck 28940]

51 minutes ago, Ghost of Shag said:

Illiteracy is its own reward.

Are the Ghost of scat porn Shag?

[WhatTheBuck 28940]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

I think there is room for legitimate debate about the terms, but 95% of the critics are just mad about who she is and her public stances on social justice, and 99% of that comes from trump supporters. The critics in this thread are almost universally the latter. 

Like clockwork.

 

[InkaUtexas 26945]

54 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

There’s some real fucking galaxy brain takes in this thread. The swap was as good as we were going to get and needed to be done. 
 

But if you’re comparing a man who literally funneled stolen eastern bloc arms to child soldiers in exchange for blood diamonds (also mined by children) to your local guns and ammo shop log off the internet for a while. 

We have talked. I grew up in Embassies. Mom was a consular officer. How many times do Americans, in shit hole countries, get arrested for stupid minor shit? Countries where we might have two consular officers and the Ambassador cannot be bothered unless the American comes from a powerful family. All the time. Do we cut deals? No, we give them the best representation we can and try and ensure they have a high level of legal council. Usually that has to be paid for by their families, which is why consular officers maintain lists of good lawyers, a lot of times US trained. I have an acquaintance who spent two years in a Honduran jail, and not the nice one reserved for their ministers. Crime? He hit a cow that was sleeping in the middle of a road at night. Cow belonged to a powerful person. How many American's are in jail in the Arab world for the dumbest shit. We leave them in those wonderful jails in the desert of the UAE. We try and get sentences reduced, but we do not trade a Arab prince who broke laws here for them. 

We could have traded Bout before she was arrested. We did not. 

She went there at a time the US Government was saying don't go to Russia. 

What is next? Trading Cartel leaders for an actor who gets honey trapped in Mexico? How do we get the Oil execs out of Venezuela? 

It was a bad deal, not because it was her, but because it was done at all. Putin, internally, was given a prize. He will parade Bout, show how we are scared of him, and then lock his ass up OR let him create a new network. Now coming to the scene, Bout, Wagner groups new head of business development and clandestine logistics. No airplanes in Sharjah, no problem, we will set up in Iran.  

And before anyone says I am a trump kin, the only time I did not vote democrat was when I voted for Nader (and yes, I was a dumb UT student at the time.) My politics and sentiments are well known. 

[GhostOfTomJoad 9522]

5 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Like clockwork.

 

The sixty-something nurse's aide at our office must follow MTG on Twitter because she repeated this damn near verbatim when throwing a hissy fit in the cafe at lunchtime when almost all of the channels (local news, CNN, ESPN) on the TV were covering BG's release. We've got a great 86" monitor w/ DirecTV that employees can enjoy. Miss Bedazzled blue jean Xian who completed some online medical assistant program went out of her way to make an ass of herself in front of the few dozen people trying to enjoy their lunch. "Can't we find someone who isn't talking about this anti-American? Americans are going to DIE because of this prisoner swap!" 

[InkaUtexas 26945]

37 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I found this on wikipedia. I'm getting the sense that he was a bad bad dude, but the "Lord of War" persona might be a bit overstated, including for Hollywood purposes.

Bout was convicted by a jury at a federal court in Manhattan on 2 November 2011.^[14] On 5 April 2012, he was sentenced to 25 years in prison, the minimum sentence for conspiring to sell weapons to a U.S.-designated foreign terrorist group.^[79][80] US District Court Judge Shira Scheindlin ruled that the minimum sentence was appropriate because "there was no evidence that Bout would have committed the crimes for which he was convicted had it not been for the sting operation".^[79]

Rep for doing research. But he was a bad dude. Ask the West African's what they think of him. There are also allegations he had no problem selling to groups in Southwest Asia that did pop rounds at US forces. This dude was not selling 2-3 AK's. He was flying planeloads around of some mean shit. AK's don't go away. They become a permanent problem in parts of the world. 

[Covri 6375]

The United States' Government laughs at Viktor Bout being the world's most dangerous arms dealer. 

 

[jimmyjazz 47298]

4 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Rep for doing research. But he was a bad dude. Ask the West African's what they think of him. There are also allegations he had no problem selling to groups in Southwest Asia that did pop rounds at US forces. This dude was not selling 2-3 AK's. He was flying planeloads around of some mean shit. AK's don't go away. They become a permanent problem in parts of the world. 

Yet he was going to be released in 6+ years, and maybe sooner if "good behavior" kicked in.  I'm not saying there is no risk in an extra 6 years of him on the loose, but you are ignoring the reality of the situation, which is that his value as trade bait was plummeting, and we needed to get an American who was wrongly imprisoned home.

[InkaUtexas 26945]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yet he was going to be released in 6+ years, and maybe sooner if "good behavior" kicked in.  I'm not saying there is no risk in an extra 6 years of him on the loose, but you are ignoring the reality of the situation, which is that his value as trade bait was plummeting, and we needed to get an American who was wrongly imprisoned home.

Then trade any old cartel dude for any American held overseas. Emirati convicted of rape? Trade him for an American in Dubai. 

My point is we do not do that unless they are government assets. We did this time. We could have traded bout years ago. we didn't. 

She has all the rights as every American. And that includes Consular services if in trouble overseas. 

 

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13636]

If Griner refused efforts for her release unless all Americans held by Russia were released, does America First treat her as shitty as they treated McCain or shittier?

[jimmyjazz 47298]

3 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Then trade any old cartel dude for any American held overseas. Emirati convicted of rape? Trade him for an American in Dubai. 

This ignores the fact that Bout had served way over half his sentence.  He was approaching worthlessness.

 

Quote

My point is we do not do that unless they are government assets. We did this time. We could have traded bout years ago. we didn't. 

Why didn't we?  Reed & Whelan were in prison before Biden took office.  If they were/are so valuable, why not make the deal then?

 

Quote

She has all the rights as every American. And that includes Consular services if in trouble overseas. 

Who represented her in Russian court?  Honest question, I don't know.  I would assume American consulate lawyers, but I guess it could have been private?

[royiv 9875]

20 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

We have talked. I grew up in Embassies. Mom was a consular officer. How many times do Americans, in shit hole countries, get arrested for stupid minor shit? Countries where we might have two consular officers and the Ambassador cannot be bothered unless the American comes from a powerful family. All the time. Do we cut deals? No, we give them the best representation we can and try and ensure they have a high level of legal council. Usually that has to be paid for by their families, which is why consular officers maintain lists of good lawyers, a lot of times US trained. I have an acquaintance who spent two years in a Honduran jail, and not the nice one reserved for their ministers. Crime? He hit a cow that was sleeping in the middle of a road at night. Cow belonged to a powerful person. How many American's are in jail in the Arab world for the dumbest shit. We leave them in those wonderful jails in the desert of the UAE. We try and get sentences reduced, but we do not trade a Arab prince who broke laws here for them. 

We could have traded Bout before she was arrested. We did not. 

She went there at a time the US Government was saying don't go to Russia. 

What is next? Trading Cartel leaders for an actor who gets honey trapped in Mexico? How do we get the Oil execs out of Venezuela? 

It was a bad deal, not because it was her, but because it was done at all. Putin, internally, was given a prize. He will parade Bout, show how we are scared of him, and then lock his ass up OR let him create a new network. Now coming to the scene, Bout, Wagner groups new head of business development and clandestine logistics. No airplanes in Sharjah, no problem, we will set up in Iran.  

And before anyone says I am a trump kin, the only time I did not vote democrat was when I voted for Nader (and yes, I was a dumb UT student at the time.) My politics and sentiments are well known. 

Serious question, is your position that we should never negotiate for the release of Americans being held as political prisoners in foreign countries?

[InkaUtexas 26945]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

This ignores the fact that Bout had served way over half his sentence.  He was approaching worthlessness.

 

Why didn't we?  Reed & Whelan were in prison before Biden took office.  If they were/are so valuable, why not make the deal then?

 

Who represented her in Russian court?  Honest question, I don't know.  I would assume American consulate lawyers, but I guess it could have been private?

1- Does not matter. We hold internationals until the finish their sentences. 

2- No idea. Completely fucked up. I would have kept Ms. NRA here as well. 

3- Russian Lawyers. Probably with a nod from the consulate and a Consular officer attending every open hearing. Russians still do closed door hearing for all except legal council. 

[InkaUtexas 26945]

2 minutes ago, royiv said:

Serious question, is your position that we should never negotiate for the release of Americans being held as political prisoners in foreign countries?

Negotiate yes, trade, no. Every tin pot asshole who has someone in a US jail is watching. It has been a long standing part of US policy we do not negotiate with terrorists. Putin and his cronies are terrorists. 

Her charges we BS. Got it. But she has never said, nor have her lawyers or family, that she did not break Russian law before they invaded Ukraine. 

[hobbes2702 13505]

2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Negotiate yes, trade, no. Every tin pot asshole who has someone in a US jail is watching. It has been a long standing part of US policy we do not negotiate with terrorists. Putin and his cronies are terrorists. 

Her charges we BS. Got it. But she has never said, nor have her lawyers or family, that she did not break Russian law before they invaded Ukraine. 

Every tin pot asshole has watched every other time we’ve done prisoner swaps in this country. 
Your stance is we should never do them at all? Your point is well made but I’ll just say I disagree 

[jimmyjazz 47298]

5 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

1- Does not matter. We hold internationals until the finish their sentences. 

Really?  We captured Russian spy William Fisher in 1957 and sentenced him to 30 years in prison.  We exchanged him for Francis Gary Powers just 4 years later.

I'm sure there are plenty of similar examples, but this one I recall, since I wrote a paper about it in college.  (One of the few papers I wrote that wasn't full of math and physics, poor syntax, and randomly misspelled words.)

[royiv 9875]

Just now, InkaUtexas said:

Negotiate yes, trade, no. Every tin pot asshole who has someone in a US jail is watching. It has been a long standing part of US policy we do not negotiate with terrorists. Putin and his cronies are terrorists. 

Her charges we BS. Got it. But she has never said, nor have her lawyers or family, that she did not break Russian law before they invaded Ukraine. 

I think the days of not negotiating with terrorists are over and have been for quite some time. Our most recent past president even flew to Asia to meet with Kim Jong-un. It's a great platitude, but in reality that ship has sailed.

While I get your point overall to some degree, I keep going back to the fact that Bout was a quickly depreciating asset for us. Why not put that depreciating asset to use even if we have to hold our noses while doing it? 

[InkaUtexas 26945]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Every tin pot asshole has watched every other time we’ve done prisoner swaps in this country. 
Your stance is we should never do them at all? Your point is well made but I’ll just say I disagree 

Something quiet? got it.

But what did we do to get people out of North Korea who "stumbled" over one of the most guarded borders in the world? 

I am mid 40's. 20 years overseas. Have seen a lot of American's get in trouble. Either their companies pay bribes and get them the fuck out right away, or they stay and linger. I see why we did it, but lets see what happens next. Hell, the UK got their POW's captured in Ukraine out without trading anything. If Bout is irrelevant , why was he #1 on Putin's list? 

[InkaUtexas 26945]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Really?  We captured Russian spy William Fisher in 1957 and sentenced him to 30 years in prison.  We exchanged him for Francis Gary Powers just 4 years later.

I'm sure there are plenty of similar examples, but this one I recall, since I wrote a paper about it in college.  (One of the few papers I wrote that wasn't full of math and physics, poor syntax, and randomly misspelled words.)

Government to government? Yes, all the time. A Russian was caught by the Peruvians spying on them and us. This is when their ties were melting. We worked the trade for one of ours. Catch a Russian spy? Hold his ass, and get him out. 

She is a celebrity. The other two, as noted, we unknown to most until she was arrested. This is what makes it a win for Putin. See, we got our asset back, they just get a basketball player. We kept the real criminal. 

[hobbes2702 13505]

1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

Something quiet? got it.

But what did we do to get people out of North Korea who "stumbled" over one of the most guarded borders in the world? 

I am mid 40's. 20 years overseas. Have seen a lot of American's get in trouble. Either their companies pay bribes and get them the fuck out right away, or they stay and linger. I see why we did it, but lets see what happens next. Hell, the UK got their POW's captured in Ukraine out without trading anything. If Bout is irrelevant , why was he #1 on Putin's list? 

Why do you see this as so much worse than Skripal, or Reed?

[royiv 9875]

Just now, InkaUtexas said:

Something quiet? got it.

But what did we do to get people out of North Korea who "stumbled" over one of the most guarded borders in the world? 

I am mid 40's. 20 years overseas. Have seen a lot of American's get in trouble. Either their companies pay bribes and get them the fuck out right away, or they stay and linger. I see why we did it, but lets see what happens next. Hell, the UK got their POW's captured in Ukraine out without trading anything. If Bout is irrelevant , why was he #1 on Putin's list? 

PR for him. And no doubt Griner is headed home for positive PR in the US. We've been doing prisoner swaps for decades. It's good PR to bring Americans home.

[WhatTheBuck 28940]

1 hour ago, yoladu said:

Who deemed him the most dangerous person in the world? The most dangerous person in the world was set to be released in 2029? hmmm

We gave up the 6 remaining years of his sentence. As some one else stated earlier in this thread - his value to us was depreciating every day. In a couple of years, we wouldn't be able to trade him for more than a couple of bottles of Russian vodka.

In case anyone missed it, former director of the CIA, former Secretary of State, and likely candidate for the 2024 Republican nomination for president Mike Pompeo said that Randi Weingarten, the head of the teachers union, is the most dangerous person in the world. Not Putin, not Xi, not Kim, not Bout, not Al Qaeda, not IS, not even drag queens.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3745575-pompeo-says-head-of-teachers-union-is-the-most-dangerous-person-in-the-world/

[royiv 9875]

1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

In case anyone missed it, former director of the CIA, former Secretary of State, and likely candidate for the 2024 Republican nomination for president Mike Pompeo said that Randi Weingarten, the head of the teachers union, is the most dangerous person in the world. Not Putin, not Xi, not Kim, not Bout, not Al Qaeda, not IS, not even drag queens.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3745575-pompeo-says-head-of-teachers-union-is-the-most-dangerous-person-in-the-world/

Merchant of Math

[jimmyjazz 47298]

4 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

She is a celebrity. The other two, as noted, we unknown to most until she was arrested. This is what makes it a win for Putin. See, we got our asset back, they just get a basketball player. We kept the real criminal. 

The difference between us and Russians is that we (theoretically) value all American lives, whether they're rank and file, government, or celebrity.  If an American is being held in a foreign prison for something we deem not to be criminal, then yes, we need to get them out.  Personally, I'm not all that concerned with the idea of putting one more arms dealer into the pool of millions.  You differ.  I suspect you'd be singing a different tune had this happened in 2019.

[G650 14450]

19 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Government to government? Yes, all the time. A Russian was caught by the Peruvians spying on them and us. This is when their ties were melting. We worked the trade for one of ours. Catch a Russian spy? Hold his ass, and get him out. 

She is a celebrity. The other two, as noted, we unknown to most until she was arrested. This is what makes it a win for Putin. See, we got our asset back, they just get a basketball player. We kept the real criminal. 

I honestly think you have the value reversed here man.

[WhatTheBuck 28940]

6 minutes ago, royiv said:

Our most recent past president even flew to Asia to meet with Kim Jong-un.

And got pantsed in full view of the rest of the world. He gave a murderous dictator a YUGE propaganda victory and got absolutely nothing in return except a letter that flattered his fragile ego as a means of manipulating him. (Something other dictators like Putin and MBS know how to do just as well.) Kim’s nuclear program rolls on unhindered; he’s more dangerous now than he was before Trump took office; all Trump did was legitimize him as an equal player on the international stage  

And here’s a Democratic president taking shit for, as is so often the case, doing something good but which wasn’t as fantabulously perfect as everyone would like it to be. (And, of course, for some there’s no such thing as even a good thing, let alone a perfect thing, when it comes to the achievements of a Democratic politician.) Biden got something. All Trump ever wanted from Russia was a Trump Tower Moscow and help getting elected. 

[hobbes2702 13505]

20 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Why do you see this as so much worse than Skripal, or Reed?

@InkaUtexas

[Henry Hill 3156]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Bout was arrested in 2008.  He was scheduled for release in August, 2029.  That's roughly 6.5 years from now.  He was always headed back to Russia, assuming he didn't die in prison.

His VALUE as trade bait drops every year in custody.  If we were going to get something for him, we needed to do it soon.  One could argue that Donald Trump should have brokered a deal earlier, say for Reed & Whelan, when we had the leverage.  But hey, that's history.  We're mad now because Biden did it, and we're all-politics-all-the-time asshats like @MNLonghornFUKM.

Should’ve thrown in some Culver’s butter burgers and some unprotected 1st round draft picks according to Jimmy Johnson’s trade value chart. We played ourselves.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Henry Hill

[InkaUtexas 26945]

28 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Why do you see this as so much worse than Skripal, or Reed?

I don't. And Skripal was dumb of going back to "visit" 

[InkaUtexas 26945]

23 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

The difference between us and Russians is that we (theoretically) value all American lives, whether they're rank and file, government, or celebrity.  If an American is being held in a foreign prison for something we deem not to be criminal, then yes, we need to get them out.  Personally, I'm not all that concerned with the idea of putting one more arms dealer into the pool of millions.  You differ.  I suspect you'd be singing a different tune had this happened in 2019.

Nope, grew up in a family is shitty places and all three kids knew either parent could have something happen and not expect a lot of help. And if we as kids did something stupid then call the consulate. 

We disagree, no problem. I am glad she is out and have no issues with her as a human. I have issues with us trading someone responsible for providing illicit toys to some real bad people. I think her and her Agent was stupid for letting her go. 

And about the sting operation that arrested him. He was not just selling weapons, he believed in his ideology. And part of that was further Russia's interest and be anti-US. Fucker should have been in GITMO. Did a lot less than Afghans we kept there without trial for a long time. 

[jimmyjazz 47298]

1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

And about the sting operation that arrested him. He was not just selling weapons, he believed in his ideology. And part of that was further Russia's interest and be anti-US. Fucker should have been in GITMO. Did a lot less than Afghans we kept there without trial for a long time. 

See, you're arguing that his sentence was wrong, and maybe it was.  But that's not on the table.  He was getting out soon.  That's a fact.  Trading him now was a reasonable choice.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8985]

Bout was arrested in 2008.  He was scheduled for release in August, 2029.  That's roughly 6.5 years from now.  He was always headed back to Russia, assuming he didn't die in prison.
His VALUE as trade bait drops every year in custody.  If we were going to get something for him, we needed to do it soon.  One could argue that Donald Trump should have brokered a deal earlier, say for Reed & Whelan, when we had the leverage.  But hey, that's history.  We're mad now because Biden did it, and we're all-politics-all-the-time asshats like [mention=37]MNLonghornFUKM[/mention].

Little Jimmy…. If it was Bout for donald, don Jr, jared, Eric, and ivanka, it’d be a terrible deal.

[InkaUtexas 26945]

Just saying he is not a good dude, and still young enough to bring back his network. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8985]

Why don’t you run this line through your head…”an American is coming home after being held captive in a Russian labor camp”.

Ok I did. She’s still a fucking moron.

[hobbes2702 13505]

5 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Ok I did. She’s still a fucking moron.

You’re still a disgusting moron. Maybe we should have sent you in her place 

[DixonHur 11970]

2 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

The DOJ made the sovereign immunity brief in November.

And… https://www.reuters.com/world/saudi-arabia-did-not-mediate-griner-release-white-house-says-2022-12-08/

So you think the negotiations just started this week?

Call me a skeptic but there are too many coincidences for me to believe the WH story.  I believe SA and UAE because (1) I don't see what they gain from lying...one maybe, but not both, (2) the swap was in the UAE, (3) Putin and bin Salman are pretty chummy, (4) the US has been offering Bout since the get-go, why did Putin only agree now, (5) I have an innate mistrust of the US government no matter who is in the White House.  I think it was a 3-way trade.

That said, welcome home Brittney.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8985]

You’re still a disgusting moron. Maybe we should have sent you in her place 

The only way the trade makes any type of sense is if she was kidnapped.

But she wasn’t. Went there for work because she’s an idiot.

[Js1 87281]

https://apnews.com/article/brittney-griner-prisons-antony-blinken-united-states-government-and-politics-975a9e0cccd5d6a8ee74925f9eb3f352
 

Quote

It came together in the past few days after the administration grudgingly accepted that though the Russians would not budge on Whelan, they were prepared to relent on Griner, creating imperfect but ultimately workable options for a U.S. government under pressure to make a deal.

Quote

But the reality, administration officials now say, is that Russia viewed Whelan’s case differently, with one official saying Moscow “put him through sham proceedings that convicted him of trumped-up espionage charges.” Russia, the official said, had “rejected each and every one of our proposals for his release.”

 

[WhatTheBuck 28940]

1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

Call me a skeptic but there are too many coincidences for me to believe the WH story.  I believe SA and UAE because (1) I don't see what they gain from lying...one maybe, but not both, (2) the swap was in the UAE, (3) Putin and bin Salman are pretty chummy, (4) the US has been offering Bout since the get-go, why did Putin only agree now, (5) I have an innate mistrust of the US government no matter who is in the White House.  I think it was a 3-way trade.

I missed what SA and UAE said. What are they saying their role was in the swap and what did either of them get in return? And from whom?

Afaik, we’ve been offering Bout for Whelan and Griner for quite some time. Blinken would never get into specifics about negotiations but he at least said that much. Maybe it wasn’t Putin who finally relented now. Maybe it was we who finally decided that settling for Griner alone was better than nothing.

One thing I’m sure of is that none of us knows exactly what went on in the negotiations. That’s as it should be. If you’re going to have an innate trust of anything our government says, that’s your prerogative, but apply it equally to everyone, especially to authoritarian regimes like Russia, Saudi Arabia, and UAE. Why would they lie? Why wouldn’t they? Straight answers run counter to their governing ideologies and they’re always trying to play one party against another. 

[NAVY 6971]

So I’m watching Cobra Kai and still irritated that I got negged for celebrating the release of an American stoner from a Russian prison. I like weed. I like basketball. I like America. I even fought for America. Why is this a bad thing that she got sprung? 

Then it occurred to me. Some of y’all just got beat at the All Valley. Didn’t turn out like your Orange Sensei tricked you into believing. 

It’s ok y’all. There is a whole new  thread about fucking yourself in ipihb. So skiddle skaddle on over and suck your own dick.
 

Mother fuckers  throwing fire on joy. Be better. Gott damn. 

 

[Dahobbs 18391]

2 hours ago, DixonHur said:

So you think the negotiations just started this week?

Call me a skeptic but there are too many coincidences for me to believe the WH story.  I believe SA and UAE because (1) I don't see what they gain from lying...one maybe, but not both, (2) the swap was in the UAE, (3) Putin and bin Salman are pretty chummy, (4) the US has been offering Bout since the get-go, why did Putin only agree now, (5) I have an innate mistrust of the US government no matter who is in the White House.  I think it was a 3-way trade.

That said, welcome home Brittney.

Again, the government didn't dismiss anything. The judge in a civil case did. And the very fact the case was dismissed isn't dispositive of anything. The plaintiff can still appeal. So there really isn't much a reason to think this dismissal triggered Griner's release. If there was a quid pro quo, it would have been for the government's brief, which was filed on November 17. Why wait until now to release Griner? I'll also point out, the government's position on sovereign immunity in that case isn't particularly controversial. It is essentially black letter law. Once Bin Salman was made Prime Minister by his father in October, this was a preordained result. There is no particular reason to think these events are connected. And, even if they are, even absent the filing by the government, the judge would have still had to dismiss the lawsuit. 

[GreenspointTexas 9991]

People already saying shes dead, according to her social media

[immamac 44414]

Just now, GreenspointTexas said:

People already saying shes dead, according to her social media

That would be very very bad and stupid for Russia to do. 

[Ted Lange 16438]

24 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

People already saying shes dead, according to her social media

Wut?

[Js1 87281]

1 minute ago, Ted Lange said:

Wut?

Yeah that would be, I don’t know, a huge fucking story 

[TexArcher 39076]

35 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

People already saying shes dead, according to her social media

I mean, CNN showed a tarmac photo of Griner and Bout being exchanged.