Top Law Firms - Dallas

[Tailgate 3,022]

I have a relative who has done really well at SMU law after 1L. They would like to stay in Dallas.

I know there are a couple of attorneys on this board.  Was curious as to your input on this. They would like to be in big law. Looking at trademark law currently but I would assume open to areas of other interest.

Opinions vary I know…but figured some of y’all would have some firms to aim for and others possibly not so much.

Appreciate any input.

[Dahobbs 17,635]

1 hour ago, Tailgate said:

I have a relative who has done really well at SMU law after 1L. They would like to stay in Dallas.

I know there are a couple of attorneys on this board.  Was curious as to your input on this. They would like to be in big law. Looking at trademark law currently but I would assume open to areas of other interest.

Opinions vary I know…but figured some of y’all would have some firms to aim for and others possibly not so much.

Appreciate any input.

If your relative is aiming for big law, then I'm not sure it really matters which big law firm they choose. My experience has been that, especially in Texas, they are all pretty similar. That said, I'm not familiar with all the firms that specialize in intellectual property. I think @TwiceHorn would have some good input for you. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Dahobbs

[South Austin 52,546]

20 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

If your relative is aiming for big law, then I'm not sure it really matters which big law firm they choose. My experience has been that, especially in Texas, they are all pretty similar. 

This was the case when I was a Dallas biglaw associate 20 years ago. They all required a lot of hours on the books, it was hard to get courtroom experience, and it was damn hard to make partner. It’s a tough environment, but can be rewarding in some ways (my four years at Vinson & Elkins were actually some of the best years of my life). My advice is to find a group whom you actually like to be around with, and not a bunch of stiffs in suits.

Edited July 7, 2022 by South Austin

[TwiceHorn 31,519]

The usual biglaw suspects have trademark sections within their IP groups, V/E, BakerBotts, Fulbright, etc.   It's not as exclusive as patent stuff, in terms of potentially needing a technical degree, but probably a decent specialty.  BakerBotts and Fulbright are actually probably a bit more focused in their IP than the rest, in that order.

One of the problems with biglaw TM is that the core of the practices tends to be in Austin, or Houston, not Dallas.  That has pluses and minuses.

For regionals, Haynes & Boone has a pretty dedicated trademark practice and the senior guy (he's 57 I think) of it is a super-good and sharp dude that is also a double-horn.  Others do it, but I'm not sure how strong they are.  ETA:  Haynes & Boone really has a "vibrant" TM practice, that punches far above Haynes & Boone's weight and I think my friend took it there.

Some newcomers to Texas, like St. Louis-based Polsinelli are pretty IP-focused and include soft IP like TM, they're not just patent and seem to have attracted some pretty good people.

Fish & Richardson is always a strong choice in terms of rep for the dedicated IP shop.

One of the best trademark lawyers in Texas is Molly Richard.  She has her own small firm, but might hire a clerk or two.  And, although probably not a long-term job prospect, the experience would look good on a resume.

Edited July 7, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31,519]

Also, the person should be aware that trademark work encompasses three or four areas:

• trademark filing and "prosecution," including outside the US
• trademark enforcement and defense, i.e. litigation
• administrative litigation at the USPTO, which is still litigation, but pretty specialized

The litigation part is pretty much just litigation, and some firms are going to slide that work toward their general litigation section, some aren't.  The other two are a more "office-oriented" practice, which many consider dull, but is perfect for others.  Some firms are going to have their people doing it all, and that would be "exciting," and "interesting," in the Chinese proverb sense.

[Dahobbs 17,635]

24 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The usual biglaw suspects have trademark sections within their IP groups, V/E, BakerBotts, Fulbright, etc.   It's not as exclusive as patent stuff, in terms of potentially needing a technical degree, but probably a decent specialty.  BakerBotts and Fulbright are actually probably a bit more focused in their IP than the rest, in that order.

One of the problems with biglaw TM is that the core of the practices tends to be in Austin, or Houston, not Dallas.  That has pluses and minuses.

For regionals, Haynes & Boone has a pretty dedicated trademark practice and the senior guy (he's 57 I think) of it is a super-good and sharp dude that is also a double-horn.  Others do it, but I'm not sure how strong they are.

Some newcomers to Texas, like St. Louis-based Polsinelli are pretty IP-focused and include soft IP like TM, they're not just patent and seem to have attracted some pretty good people.

Fish & Richardson is always a strong choice in terms of rep for the dedicated IP shop.

One of the best trademark lawyers in Texas is Molly Richard.  She has her own small firm, but might hire a clerk or two.  And, although probably not a long-term job prospect, the experience would look good on a resume.

 Got a friend that does trademark at Pirkey Barber. Not big law, but I figure the new lawyer that has done well in school would be well advised to check out some of the boutiques and midsize firms.

edit: Of course, the title said specifically Dallas and I just ignored that. Ha.  

Edited July 7, 2022 by Dahobbs

[Hank Scorpio 17,729]

Tell them to drop out of law school and go do something productive. 

[TwiceHorn 31,519]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

 Got a friend that does trademark at Pirkey Barber. Not big law, but I figure the new lawyer that has done well in school would be well advised to check out some of the boutiques and midsize firms. 

Yeah, Pirkey Barber is a bit of a unicorn, especially around here.  All-trademark firms are pretty rare.

[Dahobbs 17,635]

Just now, Hank Scorpio said:

Tell them to drop out of law school and go do something productive. 

Like post on Surly? 

[DalTxHornFan 3,114]

Trademark law sounds like a pretty narrow specialty for a baby lawyer just getting started.  Much less a first year law student.

[TwiceHorn 31,519]

2 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Trademark law sounds like a pretty narrow specialty for a baby lawyer just getting started.  Much less a first year law student.

It's weird.  When I first started out, it was relegated to the patent lawyers.  Now it's kind of its own thing.  Sometimes blended with "unfair competition," which sometimes includes covenants not to compete and trade secrets, but employment likes to keep their hooks in that.

Because I was kind of the last of the do-it-all IP lawyer "generation," I do a lot of trademark acquisition and a fair amount of "consulting" on the litigation.

Very amusing tale about Molly Buck Richard.  She's licensed as a patent attorney, chemistry, I think.  She went to work originally for a Dallas law firm that was a split off from Richards, Medlock & Andrews, the Dallas patent/IP OG.

It was a highly male dominated profession then, late 70s or early 80s,  She was their first female hire.  I don't think she was intended to do only trademark work, but gravitated in that direction, as it seemed many women in IP did in those days. 

There was some joking about putting her on the letterhead as M. Buck Richard to disguise her femininity.

[Pato del Muerto 52,553]

Kondos and kondos 

Betty Blackwell 

RA Gabriel

thujone’s place

I'm sure all have prominent trademark divisions. 

[DalTxHornFan 3,114]

40 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Very amusing tale about Molly Buck Richard.  She's licensed as a patent attorney, chemistry, I think.  She went to work originally for a Dallas law firm that was a split off from Richards, Medlock & Andrews, the Dallas patent/IP OG.

It was a highly male dominated profession then, late 70s or early 80s,  She was their first female hire.  I don't think she was intended to do only trademark work, but gravitated in that direction, as it seemed many women in IP did in those days. 

There was some joking about putting her on the letterhead as M. Buck Richard to disguise her femininity.

I've talked with her before.  She is a force of nature.

[TwiceHorn 31,519]

37 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I've talked with her before.  She is a force of nature.

She has a really deep voice that's gotten huskier over the years.  She can be intimidating in some circumstances.  But she's a really nice and fun person and knows her shit.

She was my opposing counsel on a trademark matter when I was a baby lawyer.  She could have been really hard on me, but wasn't.  We've been friends ever since.

[Gil Bang 25,987]

Are those fucks at Akin-Gump still around?  

When our Construction Finance company was being backed by Bear Stearns/EMC, they would charge more to review documents than my San Diego lawyer charged us to write them originally, and then they'd recommend stupid, minor, meaningless changes to justify their fees. 

[troph 24,902]

7 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

 Got a friend that does trademark at Pirkey Barber. Not big law, but I figure the new lawyer that has done well in school would be well advised to check out some of the boutiques and midsize firms.

edit: Of course, the title said specifically Dallas and I just ignored that. Ha.  

 PB isn’t big law but they are big law, Lou Pirkey and Bill Barber are stalwarts (not sure if Lou is still around) and they have top top clients. They broke off from Fulbright after joining in the merger of Arnold White and Durkee with Fulbright which really put Fulbright on the map for IP work 20+ years ago. I’d have no qualms saying PB is a fantastic firm to work at.  The problem with TM work is it’s a commodity on the prosecution side - so litigate or worry about your job security. That practice area will continue to face outsourcing, legal assistant and non legal services (legal zoom) pressure. 

[DalTxHornFan 3,114]

5 minutes ago, troph said:

 The problem with TM work is it’s a commodity on the prosecution side - so litigate or worry about your job security. That practice area will continue to face outsourcing, legal assistant and non legal services (legal zoom) pressure. 

Yep.  That is why I thought it was a very narrow area to focus upon so early in a legal career.

[blacklab 11,942]

Let me know if he needs an introduction at PB, they represented UT when I had to change the name from shaggybevo.

[TwiceHorn 31,519]

29 minutes ago, troph said:

 PB isn’t big law but they are big law, Lou Pirkey and Bill Barber are stalwarts (not sure if Lou is still around) and they have top top clients. They broke off from Fulbright after joining in the merger of Arnold White and Durkee with Fulbright which really put Fulbright on the map for IP work 20+ years ago. I’d have no qualms saying PB is a fantastic firm to work at.  The problem with TM work is it’s a commodity on the prosecution side - so litigate or worry about your job security. That practice area will continue to face outsourcing, legal assistant and non legal services (legal zoom) pressure. 

For big clients, with branding strategies and worldwide reach, it's not really a commodity.  The applications themselves are legal assistant work and can actually be pretty profitable.  But the strategies behind it, particularly when considering foreign applications, and the search and clearance work for non-English analogues takes some skill.   Sometimes, that's in-house, other times not.

And, generally, knowing application practice well is a prerequisite to oppositions and cancellations at the TTAB, the administrative litigation.

When the PTO made trademark applications an online thing 20 years ago, we all thought application work would all but disappear.  But then we found out that pro-se applicants and people that didn't know wtf they were doing found new and unique ways to fuck up trademark applications.  There's a lot of background knowledge required to do even just applications in a trouble-free way, particularly if you don't want to buy trouble in litigation.

You're absolutely right that the dissolution and absorption of AWD by Fulbright and a few others was kind of a bellwether for biglaw IP practice.

A perspective on the explosion of IP as a law practice.  My first boss and mentor graduated law school in 1963, passed the patent bar about the same time, and received registration number 22,xxx.  Twenty-eight year later, I graduated law school and passed the patent bar and received registration number 36,xxx.  They are sequential.

Here it is again, 30 years later, and the registration numbers are 80,xxx plus.

There are more currently registered patent attorneys today, at more than 40,000, than had been registered in the history of registration in 1991, when I was registered.

[Tailgate 3,022]

Appreciate all this input everyone. Will be passing these comments along.

[tx 3 putt 77,275]

8 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Like post on Surly? 

 

pure luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuulz. you think @Hank Scorpio actually posts ???????

he has a low earning associate typing up his posts. he has two, 2nd year associates reading the board and brining posts to his attention 

[Prepuce of Doom 21,099]

11 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

pure luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuulz. you think @Hank Scorpio actually posts ???????

he has a low earning associate typing up his posts. he has two, 2nd year associates reading the board and brining posts to his attention 

No wonder his posts are often so salty. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Prepuce of Doom

[tx 3 putt 77,275]

21 minutes ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

No wonder his posts are often so salty. 

Associate tears are extra salty !!!!

[Skipper 6,188]

12 hours ago, Tailgate said:

Appreciate all this input everyone. Will be passing these comments along.

If they are going do to Biglaw and signing up for the grind that comes with it, might as well go to a firm that is paying the NY salary scale (and look at levels 1-8, not just starting salary, I know some of the Texas shops tried to compress salary bumps years 3-8 so they weren't really competitive).  Not sure if that is still a thing in this crazy market or not.  I don't even know what our associates make these days but I know it's ridiculous.  Pretty sure there has been like 3-4 rounds of raises the past few years to keep up.  If IP is really a strong interest, listen to advice above.   I know zero about that practice but would think there could be a benefit to going to a boutique that pays a little less.  Or maybe such a specialized practice quality of work doesn't differ much.  Literally no idea what those guys do.

[troph 24,902]

21 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

For big clients, with branding strategies and worldwide reach, it's not really a commodity.  The applications themselves are legal assistant work and can actually be pretty profitable.  But the strategies behind it, particularly when considering foreign applications, and the search and clearance work for non-English analogues takes some skill.   Sometimes, that's in-house, other times not.

And, generally, knowing application practice well is a prerequisite to oppositions and cancellations at the TTAB, the administrative litigation.

When the PTO made trademark applications an online thing 20 years ago, we all thought application work would all but disappear.  But then we found out that pro-se applicants and people that didn't know wtf they were doing found new and unique ways to fuck up trademark applications.  There's a lot of background knowledge required to do even just applications in a trouble-free way, particularly if you don't want to buy trouble in litigation.

You're absolutely right that the dissolution and absorption of AWD by Fulbright and a few others was kind of a bellwether for biglaw IP practice.

A perspective on the explosion of IP as a law practice.  My first boss and mentor graduated law school in 1963, passed the patent bar about the same time, and received registration number 22,xxx.  Twenty-eight year later, I graduated law school and passed the patent bar and received registration number 36,xxx.  They are sequential.

Here it is again, 30 years later, and the registration numbers are 80,xxx plus.

There are more currently registered patent attorneys today, at more than 40,000, than had been registered in the history of registration in 1991, when I was registered.

There is always a need for practitioners at the highest levels, no doubt. It’s still true though the prosecution business continues to face significant pressure on costs which makes it an area to consider wisely.  And when I say litigation I actually mean infringement and enforcement. Though I realize many litigators handle all aspects of TM litigation.  Btw, I would have no hesitation about TM litigation as a practice area and prosecution as part of the training, I would think twice about wanting to only manage a prosecution docket. 
 

Edited July 9, 2022 by troph

[Tailgate 3,022]

Any scoop on mcdermott will & emery? 

[TwiceHorn 31,519]

15 minutes ago, Tailgate said:

Any scoop on mcdermott will & emery? 

Not a Texas firm.  But a solid national firm, I suppose, out of Chicago.  A lot of Chicago-based firms have the reputation of being aggro and sweatshops, but can't speak to MWE.  They have IP people, like everyone these days, but I can't think of anyone really prominent.

I don't see a single attorney in the Dallas office listed under Trademark Counseling or Litigation and Enforcement, or anywhere in Texas.

Theoretically, being the only attorney in a specialty in an office could be a great opportunity.  But likely not for a baby lawyer.

Edited July 17, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31,519]

On 7/8/2022 at 9:02 PM, troph said:

There is always a need for practitioners at the highest levels, no doubt. It’s still true though the prosecution business continues to face significant pressure on costs which makes it an area to consider wisely.  And when I say litigation I actually mean infringement and enforcement. Though I realize many litigators handle all aspects of TM litigation.  Btw, I would have no hesitation about TM litigation as a practice area and prosecution as part of the training, I would think twice about wanting to only manage a prosecution docket. 
 

True enough.  I doubt there are very many firms that dedicate a lawyer to a tm prosecution docket.  I think most law firms get high-value and strategic applications, and, once granted, the client takes over the docket.  And those high-value/strategic applications are either likely to draw an opposition or are intended to do so, or are part of an opposition/cancellation strategy.

[TwiceHorn 31,519]

The more I think about it, for Dallas, Haynes & Boone probably has the best trademark practice going.  And, as sorta-biglaw, might be a bit more positively disposed toward SMU grads (Boone is an SMU grad).  

I don't know what the actual reality is, these days, but for a while there, with the lawyer oversupply, a lot of biglaw firms weren't taking a ton of SMU grads.

Edited July 17, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Tailgate 3,022]

27 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The more I think about it, for Dallas, Haynes & Boone probably has the best trademark practice going.  And, as sorta-biglaw, might be a bit more positively disposed toward SMU grads (Boone is an SMU grad).  

I don't know what the actual reality is, these days, but for a while there, with the lawyer oversupply, a lot of biglaw firms weren't taking a ton of SMU grads.

Really appreciate the input you’ve given in this thread. Haynes & Boone presented a summer opportunity that will be taken advantage of.

[TwiceHorn 31,519]

8 minutes ago, Tailgate said:

Really appreciate the input you’ve given in this thread. Haynes & Boone presented a summer opportunity that will be taken advantage of.

Whether s/he ends up taking a job there, it will be a good experience, I'm sure.  Jeff Becker is a great lawyer and human being.

[Tailgate 3,022]

This relative is lucky….and yes because of hard work…but looks like MWE is bringing an opportunity also….so hopefully as a 1L about to start 2L they have a chance to see several firms and find the best fit.

[gyroprotagonist 2,594]

haven't most biglaw firms already landed 1Ls for their summer programs?  wife works for a top 50 amlaw firm in dallas and I think they have been doing stuff with summer associates for a while now this summer.  I think they usually get a mix of 1Ls and 2Ls, but it's mostly 1Ls that they have identified they are going after for recruitment.

does your relative want to litigate or not?  my wife is in corporate law and never goes to court.  She handles [american] murders and executions [/psycho] IPOs/spinoffs, IP acquisition/selling, crypto and stuff like that.  works some with IP lawyers as her specialty is technology/media.  Point is what she does is broad  and not that specific.

- It seems like their summer candidates go into sections like 'corporate' or 'bankruptcy' or 'litigation'.  some firms separate out stuff like funds or combine corporate and bankruptcy, but i have never heard of a group for trademarks.  that would seem to be a better fit for an in-house lawyer for company that gets sued a lot by patent/trademark trolls maybe?

 

edit - just saw that she is getting into a summer program.  That is the way to go for big law opportunities

[South Austin 52,546]

Tailgate, you need to let your relative know that most biglaw jobs have a minimum requirement of 6 hours a day on Surly. 

[Tailgate 3,022]

1 hour ago, gyroprotagonist said:

haven't most biglaw firms already landed 1Ls for their summer programs?  wife works for a top 50 amlaw firm in dallas and I think they have been doing stuff with summer associates for a while now this summer.  I think they usually get a mix of 1Ls and 2Ls, but it's mostly 1Ls that they have identified they are going after for recruitment.

does your relative want to litigate or not?  my wife is in corporate law and never goes to court.  She handles [american] murders and executions [/psycho] IPOs/spinoffs, IP acquisition/selling, crypto and stuff like that.  works some with IP lawyers as her specialty is technology/media.  Point is what she does is broad  and not that specific.

- It seems like their summer candidates go into sections like 'corporate' or 'bankruptcy' or 'litigation'.  some firms separate out stuff like funds or combine corporate and bankruptcy, but i have never heard of a group for trademarks.  that would seem to be a better fit for an in-house lawyer for company that gets sued a lot by patent/trademark trolls maybe?

 

edit - just saw that she is getting into a summer program.  That is the way to go for big law opportunities

Thanks for the reply. They are looking at summer 2L. They have a gig this summer….the goal appears to be checking out as many firms as possible to see what fits best. They don’t want to litigate…they say…but I think they would be a great litigator…so, we shall see. Hopefully they get experience doing and seeing several practice areas.

[Tailgate 3,022]

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

Tailgate, you need to let your relative know that most biglaw jobs have a minimum requirement of 6 hours a day on Surly. 

I’ll be lurking for them.  On the SMU boards too….unfortunately nothing compares to Surly.

[Tailgate 3,022]

Is Kirkland the sweatshop they say it is?

Would it be worth it for a a baby lawyer to put their time in there and the opportunities might be greater in the long run?

[DalTxHornFan 3,114]

26 minutes ago, Tailgate said:

Is Kirkland the sweatshop they say it is?

Would it be worth it for a a baby lawyer to put their time in there and the opportunities might be greater in the long run?

My observation is that it is a boutique of mercenary experienced (and talented) laterals.  Not a a great place for a baby lawyer to develop their skills, IMHO.  That said, they would be working around some very bright people.  Their in-house catering is fabulous - so yes, it is a sweatshop!  YMMV.

Edited July 22, 2022 by DalTxHornFan

[TwiceHorn 31,519]

14 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

My observation is that it is a boutique of mercenary experienced (and talented) laterals.  Not a a great place for a baby lawyer to develop their skills, IMHO.  That said, they would be working around some very bright people.  YMMV.

Kirkland has some "organic" IP people, but it's not really what they're known for.  And, I believe it would be heavily litigation oriented.  Notably, most of the Dallas people fit your description to a T.  And there is one TM partner in Houston.

And yeah, they tend to be something of a sweatshop as far as I can tell.  I worked with a Kirkland Chicago guy on an ITC investigation once, which is a shitload of work compressed into a very tight timeframe.  Guy was an abrasive Yankee, but nice enough.  I did get the impression that his associates were working their balls off.  Everyone associated with it was, that's the nature of the beast, but I sensed it was worse for them.

I'm not sure being in the Dallas office of these big name firms is really worth the candle, much of the time.  It has worked out well for Baker Botts people and Fulbright people, but not so sure about others.  Sidley & Austin invaded Dallas via merging an IP shop.  Most everyone eventually left, including the name partner whose practice they essentially bought, though they still have the office and do IP work with Chicago transplants.

Edited July 22, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[We’reTexas 1,473]

1 hour ago, Tailgate said:

Is Kirkland the sweatshop they say it is?

Would it be worth it for a a baby lawyer to put their time in there and the opportunities might be greater in the long run?

Yes. 

[We’reTexas 1,473]

28 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

 

I'm not sure being in the Dallas office of these big name firms is really worth the candle, much of the time.  It has worked out well for Baker Botts people and Fulbright people, but not so sure about others.  Sidley & Austin invaded Dallas via merging an IP shop.  Most everyone eventually left, including the name partner whose practice they essentially bought, though they still have the office and do IP work with Chicago transplants.

KE Dallas was begun as an extension of Houston to recruit people who wanted to stay in Dallas, not a conventional satellite office. And with the COVID era all the offices are interconnected (there is now literally a SLC office that exists to service other offices). So I wouldn’t worry too much about that aspect. 

Edited July 22, 2022 by We’reTexas

[Prepuce of Doom 21,099]

34 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

 

And yeah, they tend to be something of a sweatshop as far as I can tell.  I worked with a Kirkland Chicago guy on an ITC investigation once, which is a shitload of work compressed into a very tight timeframe.  Guy was an abrasive Yankee, but nice enough.  I did get the impression that his associates were working their balls off.  Everyone associated with it was, that's the nature of the beast, but I sensed it was worse for them.

This is also my general assessment of Chicago Kirkland, though there are more supreme Type-A assholes than average/expected, too. 

Edited July 22, 2022 by Prepuce of Doom

[TwiceHorn 31,519]

3 minutes ago, We’reTexas said:

KE Dallas was begun as an extension of Houston to recruit people who wanted to stay in Dallas, not a conventional satellite office. And with the COVID era all the offices are interconnected (there is now literally a SLC office that exists to service other offices). So I wouldn’t worry too much about that aspect. 

So, you're probably referring to litigation and bigtime corporate work that occurs somewhere other than the home office location, which seems to jibe with what I see on their site.  Those people would seem to rarely actually work in Houston or Dallas.

[We’reTexas 1,473]

21 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, you're probably referring to litigation and bigtime corporate work that occurs somewhere other than the home office location, which seems to jibe with what I see on their site.  Those people would seem to rarely actually work in Houston or Dallas.

What I mean is that the office was begun with the idea that associates would live in Dallas while doing Houston deals, so the idea wasn’t that the office needed to get a foothold in the Dallas legal market to thrive. Obviously that thinking evolved, but if you’re in Dallas or Austin you could get work from Houston, NYC or Chicago. Lots of firms opened up Austin offices during the pandemic for that reason. And yes I’m talking about corporate work. Outside of Chicago litigation doesn’t have much of a presence. 

[DalTxHornFan 3,114]

36 minutes ago, We’reTexas said:

What I mean is that the office was begun with the idea that associates would live in Dallas while doing Houston deals, so the idea wasn’t that the office needed to get a foothold in the Dallas legal market to thrive. Obviously that thinking evolved, but if you’re in Dallas or Austin you could get work from Houston, NYC or Chicago. Lots of firms opened up Austin offices during the pandemic for that reason. And yes I’m talking about corporate work. Outside of Chicago litigation doesn’t have much of a presence. 

That sounds like a prescription for baby lawyers to never become rainmakers, much less even a first chair in a trial, or a lead on a transaction.  Nice work if you don't have much ambition.

[We’reTexas 1,473]

4 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

That sounds like a prescription for baby lawyers to never become rainmakers, much less even a first chair in a trial, or a lead on a transaction.  Nice work if you don't have much ambition.

Ok boomer. 

[DalTxHornFan 3,114]

2 minutes ago, We’reTexas said:

Ok boomer. 

The term is equity holder.

[Skipper 6,188]

On 7/22/2022 at 8:01 PM, DalTxHornFan said:

That sounds like a prescription for baby lawyers to never become rainmakers, much less even a first chair in a trial, or a lead on a transaction.  Nice work if you don't have much ambition.

From what I understand talking to some of our associates they were offering stupid bonuses for laterals the last couple of years (with equally stupid hours expectations).  But they definitely helped forced the hand for associate raises.   I know indirectly of someone that took a big bonus and planned to cash in for a couple of years then go in-house, which, considering he wasn't making top of market base where he was at much less bonus, wasn't a bad strategy.

[Atxracer 797]

Just a thought that’s a bit different from above so take it with a grain of salt.

If I were to do it again and choose to practice law instead of going into business (which, while also a lawyer, I wouldn’t choose law), I would go the route of working for a smaller prestigious plaintiff firm, gain as much experience as I could, save every penny, live well within my means and then go off and start my own firm.  

From all the lawyers I know, those are the ones that seem to do really, really well (meaning multiple homes, maybe PJ type stuff) and have decent control of their work/life balance with maybe a couple high end M&A people mixed in.  But, the M&A guys are Harvard, Stanford type pedigrees.  

No offense meant to half the board here that are lawyers, just an observation from what I have witnessed.  

[TwiceHorn 31,519]

24 minutes ago, Atxracer said:

Just a thought that’s a bit different from above so take it with a grain of salt.

If I were to do it again and choose to practice law instead of going into business (which, while also a lawyer, I wouldn’t choose law), I would go the route of working for a smaller prestigious plaintiff firm, gain as much experience as I could, save every penny, live well within my means and then go off and start my own firm.  

From all the lawyers I know, those are the ones that seem to do really, really well (meaning multiple homes, maybe PJ type stuff) and have decent control of their work/life balance with maybe a couple high end M&A people mixed in.  But, the M&A guys are Harvard, Stanford type pedigrees.  

No offense meant to half the board here that are lawyers, just an observation from what I have witnessed.  

No, you're right.  Because it's entrepreneurial, with risk/reward.  As a business guy, it's no surprise you think that way.

It's like owning any small business and doing the plaintiff's end of it is a higher leverage ratio, than say IP.

Trademark litigation, however, is one of the I guess few areas where being a contingent-fee lawyer just won't work, because the chances of monetary recovery are slim 99.9% of the time.  It's difficult in all of IP litigation, because of the unpredictability and expense of cases. Although it certainly goes on.

And, of course the "transactional" work is almost impossible to leverage other than by bodies, because it generates no recovery.

And the problem with corporate work is that someone needs to provide a bunch of bodies to do the due diligence and "scrivening," but if you're good enough that people want to add you to a team with a firm with the bodies, for a percentage of the deal, that's great work.

A lot of people just aren't wired that way, though.  Like me.

But if you don't make the common mistake of overestimating your ability to attract and keep good clients/contingency cases (i.e. a referral network),  it is the best way to make a reasonable or even pretty insane living with a reasonable work-life balance.

I worked in small firms most of my career, because that's what IP lawyers did.  I managed not to get sucked into a bigger or biglaw firm, although I had several opportunities to do so because I just didn't want to go.

At my last transition, where I was headed to a bigger firm with a group that fell apart for a pretty insane reason and made me want to have nothing to do with that firm or any like it, I went on my own.  One of the best decisions I ever made, although I took a pay cut.  But the pay cut is not in proportion to the reduction in the amount of work I do.  

I also had a decent, loyal client base whose work I could handle by myself, who refer me business, and good relations with a lot of lawyers that send me work or involve me in theirs.  So, I am not going to get ultra rich.  But, I enjoy my work, I work a tiny fraction of the hours I worked even at non-sweatshop firms, and I make a sizable fraction of the compensation I previously received.  And, the admin work I have to do (billing mostly) is tolerable.  I don't want to "grow" because I don't want to fuck with more of that.