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Godfather I or II?

TexArcher

By TexArcher
in Movies and TV

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Which is the better film?  

78 members have voted

  1. 1. Which is the better film?

    • The Godfather
      46
    • The Godfather: Part II
      32

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Augustus

Augustus 3061

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, dcbc said:

The slow dial in zoom on Michael as he ad libs the plan to kill Sollozzo and McCluskey is great.

 

I mentioned precisely that on The Offer thread, I think.

It was maybe the 25th time I'd seen the film, but I noticed that as Michael began his idea, you get a wide shot and can see his family around him, and the slow zoom begins.

By the time he says, "I'll kill 'em both," he's all alone on the screen.  Given that the decision to kill Sollozzo and McCluskey is what ultimately left him all alone in the world, it was powerful.

I don't know if that's exactly what Coppolla was wanting to convey or it was just a nice coincidence, but it's perfect symbolically. 

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Augustus

Augustus 3061

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Posted

Another bit of trivia for you, in case you're unfamiliar with English translation of Che La Luna, the song sung during the wedding celebration by Mama Corleone and others.  It's full of double entendre, thus the laughter from everyone:

Mamma dear come over here
And see who's looking in my window
It's the baker boy and look
He's got a cannoli in his hand
 
If you marry the baker boy
He will come and he will go
He will always mix the flower in the pan
If you marry the baker boy
He'll have a cannoli in his hand
 
Mamma dear come over here
And see who's looking in the window
It's the musician and hes got
The instrument in his hand
 
If you marry the musician
He will come and he will go
He will always be playing in the band
If you marry the musician
He'll have the trumpet in his hand
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Trey3216

Trey3216 15360

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Augustus said:

I've mentioned this before, as well, but if you haven't checked it out it's worth it.

 

It’s a fucking masterpiece.  
 

everything about I & II are absolutely perfect.   It’s absolutely perfect filmmaking, score, screenplay, story, casting.  Its almost impossible to think there’s anything better than what The Godfather brought to the table in every one of the aspects.   They really are perfect films.   Fucking hard to believe the og came out 50 years ago.  

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Augustus

Augustus 3061

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Posted
4 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

It’s a fucking masterpiece.  
 

everything about I & II are absolutely perfect.   It’s absolutely perfect filmmaking, score, screenplay, story, casting.  Its almost impossible to think there’s anything better than what The Godfather brought to the table in every one of the aspects.   They really are perfect films.   Fucking hard to believe the og came out 50 years ago.  

That may be the highest compliment one could pay any work of art.

"What could be done to improve it?"

"Nothing."

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66BUFF

66BUFF 2565

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, Augustus said:

The first one's my favorite.  The second is a masterpiece.  I don't begin to know how to pick one over the other.

One of the things I found amazing is that the movie's impact results from every aspect of its production, and one of the biggest is undoubtedly the score.  I wonder how different the movie would feel if it had a different score.  Those haunting melodies created the atmosphere in which we're perceiving everything happening on the screen and for me it's as much a part of the emotions you move through as the dialogue and the characters.

As others have mentioned, the lighting, the sets, the direction and the acting etc... it's all perfect.  

What's most astonishing to me is they were able to create a second film that not only built upon that world (and told its history) while maintaining that level of perfection, even growing it larger.

It's so amazingly well done, and the characters so real, you feel like you could walk into one of those scenes in the dining room, sit down and start conversing with the characters like you've known them forever.

And talk about audience subversion...  We love Don Vito.  Absolutely love him.  We love his family.  But these are not good people.  

 

Michael Corleone : “Politics and crime – they’re the same thing.”

I don't trust society to protect us, I have no intention of placing my fate in the hands of men whose only qualification is that they managed to con a block of people to vote for them. Read more: https://www.legit.ng/1319533-30-famous-godfather-quotes-people-remember-day.html

 

MICHAEL

I'm working for my father now, Kay. He's been sick -- very sick.
 

KAY

But you're not like him, Michael. I thought you weren't going to become a man like your

father. That's what you told me...
 

MICHAEL

My father's no different than any other powerful man --

(then, after Kay laughs)

-- Any man who's responsible for other people. Like a senator or a president.
 

KAY

You know how naive you sound?
 

MICHAEL

Why?
 

KAY

Senators and presidents don't have men killed...
 

MICHAEL

Oh -- who's being naïve, Kay?

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mchookem

mchookem 16389

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, pokeNbeans said:

I prefer to group them as one long ass movie with an intermission.

 

...that ends with him alone in the world among the fall leaves in Tahoe.

I said that ENDS WITH HIM ALONE IN THE WORLD AMONG THE FALL LEAVES IN TAHOE.

THAT IS THE END. 😐

Edited by mchookem
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Genco

Genco 3041

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

Fucking hard to believe the og came out 50 years ago.

I feel a little differently. I was born a few years after GF1 was released and it was held in such unanimous, all-time great esteem during my 1980s childhood that it felt like it was already decades old.

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DalTxHornFan

DalTxHornFan 3117

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

“My final Offer is this…nothing.   Not even the fee for the gaming license, which I would appreciate if you put up personally.” 

That whole relationship between Michael, the family, and the Senator is perfect.  From the Lake Tahoe meeting, to the brothel scene, and then the Senate hearing -- perfection.

Edited by DalTxHornFan
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dcbc

dcbc 14510

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Woodrow Call said:

I can hardly watch one without the other, but I can't even get through III.

I did it yesterday.  Getting over COVID and had time to kill.  Started in the afternoon, took a break in between, and finished up around midnight.

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Augustus

Augustus 3061

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8 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

What, no love for Godfather III?

I really enjoy it every time I watch it, but I see it the same way Coppolla has described it.  It's not so much a sequel as it is an epilogue to a finished story.

I liked the story of the Vatican bank and some slimy European guys swindling Michael (or attempting to, until they unexpectedly got a new Pope) out of hundreds of millions.  I liked Don Altobello and his sweet-old-guy-Judas character.  I thought Andy Garcia was great, even if his character developed a little too much, too quickly.  He goes from street guy who can't control his emotions, to sitting around a Sicilian villa discussing international conglomerate business as if he graduated form Wharton 30 years ago.

I also found it interesting:  I didn't notice this the first few times I watched it, but when Michael is having his diabetic stroke, one of the things he's yelling is "Altobello!  You fuck!"  He had already discerned that Altobello was in league with Joey Zasa et al.  Michael was older, but he clearly hadn't lost his keen perception, just as he'd rightly suspected Hyman Roth in Part II.

I didn't have near the problem with Sophia Coppolla's acting that so many did.  In fact, I thought that her gentleness/vulnerability seemed very real.

Last thing:  Anytime I've watched Part III, I've never been able to recognize Michael as the same character from the first two films.  It's like he went from being an ice-cold-blooded Machiavelli to some wise old Jewish guy.  But in the most recent commentary of Coppolla's that I listened to, he explained that the stark contrast was deliberate, that Michael had progressed from the man he was in the first two films to a man whose sole occupation, even obsession, is redemption.  Selling off his casino interests, starting foundations,--even the acquisition of Immobiliare--were attempts to cleanse himself, and so maybe that explains a guy who now apparently has a sense of humor and is much more laid back.

I give it 3.75 out of four.

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Augustus

Augustus 3061

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Don't know if there's anybody left who never searched for the English translation of Sollozzo's pitch to Michael, but here it is.  Interesting thing in the novel:  Michael was unsure what Sollozzo really intended, right up until the moment that Sollozzo said, "You think too much of me, kid.  I'm not that clever."  As soon as he said that, Michael realized he'd made the right decision to kill him, because at that moment Michael became convinced that Sollozzo would never stop until he killed Don Vito.

 

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DalTxHornFan

DalTxHornFan 3117

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21 minutes ago, Augustus said:

Don't know if there's anybody left who never searched for the English translation of Sollozzo's pitch to Michael, but here it is.  Interesting thing in the novel:  Michael was unsure what Sollozzo really intended, right up until the moment that Sollozzo said, "You think too much of me, kid.  I'm not that clever."  As soon as he said that, Michael realized he'd made the right decision to kill him, because at that moment Michael became convinced that Sollozzo would never stop until he killed Don Vito.

 

I love this.  Such a great scene>

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Texzilla58

Texzilla58 4744

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It is the pivotal moment of the entire story. Where Michael accepts fate, goes from the hope of his father to be the one who breaks out, to taking the mantle and using that gun. He knows if the Corleone accept the Sollozzo deal that the Don will die, probably his brothers, and the family will be subsumed. Sacrifice, duty, loyalty, love; Michael changes his life and saves his family in that scene.

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Trey3216

Trey3216 15360

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10 hours ago, Augustus said:

Don't know if there's anybody left who never searched for the English translation of Sollozzo's pitch to Michael, but here it is.  Interesting thing in the novel:  Michael was unsure what Sollozzo really intended, right up until the moment that Sollozzo said, "You think too much of me, kid.  I'm not that clever."  As soon as he said that, Michael realized he'd made the right decision to kill him, because at that moment Michael became convinced that Sollozzo would never stop until he killed Don Vito.

 

I've never searched for it, but I used to be a high level non-native Spanish speaker and have been around my extended family enough to hear plenty of Italian over the years so I always understood about 90% of the strict Italian in this scene.  This video just reinforced that I knew what he was saying long ago.  

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mchookem

mchookem 16389

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Posted
4 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

It is the pivotal moment of the entire story. Where Michael accepts fate, goes from the hope of his father to be the one who breaks out, to taking the mantle and using that gun. He knows if the Corleone accept the Sollozzo deal that the Don will die, probably his brothers, and the family will be subsumed. Sacrifice, duty, loyalty, love; Michael changes his life and saves his family in that scene.

ahhh...but does he? 🤔

 

EqualMisguidedIchthyostega-size_restricted.gif

godfather-michael.gif

fredo-death.gif

e20859753e46c4f57f6045846b8a3ec2.jpg

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Texzilla58

Texzilla58 4744

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Posted
I and then II.
Casablanca beats them both.  I’ll never watch III.

I don’t get your hate of 3 when you haven’t watched it. The Coda version is not in the league of 1 & 2, but it’s certainly a fine film and worth watching. 3 has developed a myth is of mediocrity which is simply boneheaded.
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HouTex

HouTex 1894

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:


I don’t get your hate of 3 when you haven’t watched it. The Coda version is not in the league of 1 & 2, but it’s certainly a fine film and worth watching. 3 has developed a myth is of mediocrity which is simply boneheaded.

I could have worded it differently.  Shortly after it appeared on cable I tried to watch it.  I couldn’t get 20 minutes into the film.  Maybe I’ll give it another try.  

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Texzilla58

Texzilla58 4744

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I could have worded it differently.  Shortly after it appeared on cable I tried to watch it.  I couldn’t get 20 minutes into the film.  Maybe I’ll give it another try.  

That’s cool. If you watched and hated it I’ll certainly respect that opinion. I saw it at the theater when it released and hated it. My cousin and I had plowed through 1 & 2 the night or two before on LaserDisc. I later rewatched the Coda some years later and it was better. I believe Coda is still on Hulu or paramount.

Also on Paramount they have a watchlist of all the movies mentioned in The Offer.
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Patricio Swayze

Patricio Swayze 17058

Posted
Posted

I refuse to pick. There is no reason to pick.

My wife is Italian-Brazilian (her mom is 100% italian and first gen Brazilian). I like to put on the movie and wait for her to walk by and then say “hey, check this out, I found this interesting documentary about your family, check it out”. Depending on the point I am at in the movie, it takes her 5-10 seconds to figure out it’s The Godfather. You will never see a more hardcore eye roll.

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Eskimohorn

Eskimohorn 5642

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Posted
I refuse to pick. There is no reason to pick.

My wife is Italian-Brazilian (her mom is 100% italian and first gen Brazilian). I like to put on the movie and wait for her to walk by and then say “hey, check this out, I found this interesting documentary about your family, check it out”. Depending on the point I am at in the movie, it takes her 5-10 seconds to figure out it’s The Godfather. You will never see a more hardcore eye roll.

Pics arent showing up. We really want to see that eye roll.
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  • 1 year later...
Texzilla588

Texzilla588 769

Posted
Posted

I also consider them a single film. I had much that was edited out due to concerns it was going to be a 4 hour film.

2 is a prequel and a sequel. It benefits from having a much bigger budget and much of it was written.

I have watched both numerous times and 3 a few times. I think the first two are perfect films.

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HornOnTheBayou

HornOnTheBayou 8947

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 4/6/2024 at 7:10 PM, mr. sunshine said:

Michael shooting Solotzo and McCluskey in their heads is the greatest moment in cinematic history. I'll suffer your slings and arrows and stand behind that statement 

Time to derail this thread with the Best Godfather Scene Discussion. I'll go ahead and post number one and y'all can debate second place. Pacino's facial expressions in this scene are just ... amazing. Some of the best acting ever.

 

Edited by HornOnTheBayou
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Incredulity

Incredulity 11683

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Posted
On 4/6/2024 at 5:10 PM, mr. sunshine said:

Michael shooting Solotzo and McCluskey in their heads is the greatest moment in cinematic history. I'll suffer your slings and arrows and stand behind that statement 

Michael flipping the gun in the air always bugged the shit out of me.

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