Scotland

[Hagbard Celine 10515]

re: food sucks, we'll get to that later in the thread; booking lodging (b&b) for the autotour last half of dbeasy's journey has to be factored in with where you are going to eat meals

the biggest sink hole for time during auto tours in england is lunch; there are no pretamangers in the highlands and islands

[Chewbacca 7617]

all admiral itineraries assume that whatever luggage  you have is maneuverable at speed through crowds by the personnel (travelers) deployed on your mission (journey) - in other words, once you pull luggage off a carousel - it's mobile and does not require additional humans, carts, or doubling back - you and your party are mobile and capable of schlepping your own shit - no children or elderly complications - those bring travel command and control to it's knees; in addition, this is not a penelope junket, but YOLO, and no cost is spared.
+++
1. fly in to edinburgh: NO
never switch domestic for transoceanic, for a dozen reasons
scotland does not currently and has never had nonstop service from dfw or iah
day 1
you are in austin - don't lengthen your trip by 8 hours minimum and risk a domestic irrop trying to switch in atlanta, newark, jfk or boston - use the best option - nonstop to lhr
day 2
arrive T5 with rooms booked at the attached sofitel hotel with prepaid breakfast included the following morning; take a hot shower, stay awake as long as possible, and reset your circadian; when the bar opens in the hotel, time for pints and early pub dinner.   it's not worth the hour tube in to london and hour back - you are hanging out at heathrow today - we can discuss options offline for killing hours noon-4pm
day 3
get up the next morning early - force yourself to get up at 530am and walk in when the incredible sofitel breakfast opens at 6am
don't fly to scotland - splurge on a car service to kings cross, tip everyone to handle your bags - and book first class on the LNER Azuma train to Edinburgh Waverly departing every 15 minutes it's an intercity train introduced in 2019 that takes 4:25 at 125mph; the first class lounge at kings cross is quiet and not over-run by mid-morning, and then you get free lunch on the train
you booked 2 nights at the balmoral hotel in edinburgh which is connected to and sits literally on top of edinburgh waverly station - let balmoral know you are arriving by train  and they will send a porter down to meet you and collect your bags
book dinner the first night in the hotel at number one: https://www.roccofortehotels.com/hotels-and-resorts/the-balmoral-hotel/dining/number-one/
day 4
because you are relaxed, rested and ready, and you are right in the middle of it all, you can do edinburgh in 1 long day; START EARLY, which in the summer in scotland is easy, because it only gets dark for 3 hours
day 5
because you are staying at the train station, you are pre-positioned to take any of the royal scotsman trains, which all depart from and return to waverly:
https://www.belmond.com/trains/europe/scotland/belmond-royal-scotsman/about
i'll pause here - pick your next train and then we'll pick it up from there
 
 
 

This guy trains

[Hagbard Celine 10515]

i have been to scotland 5 times, and driven it twice

i have the tools and the technology

we will get dbeasy his dry peat distillery action with tons more on the way because he has 2 weeks

but you start with the trains

compared to the tourist trap trains in the US, the UK is nirvana for easy, relaxing VACATION TRAVEL

and besides, car rentals are incredibly expensive because you take all the insurance they will sell you - you just do it - and forget you are paying $3000 to rent the car for a week

[Hagbard Celine 10515]

i have a copy of this that i paid £3 for in 96:

https://www.amazon.com/Castles-Map-Scotland-D-R-MacGregor/dp/070281816X/ref=sr_1_2?crid=YTHSBE0EV2QG&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.gAO75rVSmNWJVNaqk7Ow5p72IQxdgFtA2x6ZH8Uof4PGjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps.FMSQBx-cnNM0gV2Os5U_EAcC7RxH4UDQb1Mry5fMCqY&dib_tag=se&keywords=bartholomew+castle+map+of+scotland&qid=1717950519&sprefix=bartholomew+castle+map+of+scotland%2Caps%2C131&sr=8-2

obviously $50 is too much for a map so i will send it to you for your trip in the event circumstances dictate you freestyle from your preplanned route

now here is an interesting item - scotch scratch 'n sniff map of distilleries:

https://www.amazon.com/Maps-International-Distilleries-Collect-Scratch/dp/B07XFM61VP/ref=asc_df_B07XFM61VP/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693308331010&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1336130560424471263&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9026833&hvtargid=pla-2204853465508&mcid=95722266a8433d9b91c727d72d7cf821&gad_source=1&th=1

for purposes of itinerary, i don't know scotch at all, so over to dbeasy: what are your must have destinations on this map:

[Hagbard Celine 10515]

the map is readable if you open image in new tab and ctrl++++++ to zoom in

or drag to desk and open w/ photo & zoom max

[Hagbard Celine 10515]

@Dbeasy just saw your comment on islay distilleries - it's not out of the way when attacked properly - the question becomes - do you want templar authentica and the corryvreckan whirlpool on the way to/from islay, or if you could teleport straight to islay, would you choose that option?

because it exists..... scotland has an airline:

https://www.loganair.co.uk/our-story/our-heritage/

glasgow/islay roundtrip is probably around £200/per booked in the spring, maybe £150/per if you choose days of the week for better fares

but if you already have a car, that's going to be less expensive and you get the caledonian macbrayne experience, £72 for your car, £7 per pax  https://islay.scot/islay-ferry/

i've taken the car ferry from oban to craignure on mull to drive to fionphort for the incredible hop across to iona, it was a kickass day: https://www.calmac.co.uk/article/2154/Iona

not to mention car hire on islay itself is not something i would count on - but if you want to arrange a private driver on islay and skip argyll, kintyre and corryvreckan - i've heard tell that loganair flights are totally badass in and of themselves - back in the 80s they sold an airpass and you could visit every hebrides airport/town for 7/8 hours and stay at a glasgow airport hotel - but i don't think they sell the airpass any more

2024 route map:

[Dbeasy 14756]

So spent the morning thinking about different ways to get from location to location, and while we aren't a hug fan of a ton of driving, it just seems that for Scotland and what we want to do, driving in spots is important, particularly up in Isle of Skye and Oban areas. So, we are thinking about taking the train from London to Ediborough, stay for a few days (mix in St Andrews, maybe play if I can get on the course), take the train to Glasgow, rent a car down to the ferry to Isle of Islay in Port Ellen, stay there and see my top three scotch brands right next to each other, then drive up to Oban via the ferry again, then from Oban to Portlee, then finally Portlee to Inverness where we will fly out to Heathrow.  Roughly 14-15 days.

[Hagbard Celine 10515]

you will need to get the car before glasgow, and your itinerary as described loses a day, possibly 2, backtracking

edinburgh gateway station has a tram to the airport with a 200-yard covered walk to the car hire station, a far better situation (which saves 3 hours) vs. taking the train to glasgow and then backtrack driving east; you might get a competitive one-way hire from eburgh centre dropping at either airport, but suspect airport hire will have the best options and best prices

i get the sense from your reply that you would prefer to do your own research so that the plan is yours

[Dbeasy 14756]

2 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

you will need to get the car before glasgow, and your itinerary as described loses a day, possibly 2, backtracking

edinburgh gateway station has a tram to the airport with a 200-yard covered walk to the car hire station, a far better situation (which saves 3 hours) vs. taking the train to glasgow and then backtrack driving east; you might get a competitive one-way hire from eburgh centre dropping at either airport, but suspect airport hire will have the best options and best prices

i get the sense from your reply that you would prefer to do your own research so that the plan is yours

love the help. Trying to adjust with your input. Why do I have to get the car before Glasgow? We stay in Edinborough for a few days, take the train to Queens station and pickup a car at a nearby rental place. That way we don't have to drive an extra hour, since we have 5 hours ahead of us from Glasgow to Islay. We looked at other ways to get to Islay, but I didn't want to backtrack to Glasgow.  Would rather just go direct from Port Ellen to Oban, which then requires a car. Really appreciate your thoughts. I have not spent time there before, although interestingly, I was 24 hours away from taking a job in Edinborough, site unseen.

[Hagbard Celine 10515]

you want st. andrews, and british rail stopped serving st. andrews in 1969: http://www.starlink-campaign.org.uk/

the closest station is leuchars 6 miles north; trains take only an hour from waverly, but then there is a bus ride or uber in to the city centre; so let's call that another 30 mins, and up the total waverly->st.andrews time to 90 minutes

in order to get the savings of staying in the same room that night you have to add that 90 minutes going back to edinburgh - you can get a car in downtown edinburgh the next day and drive to islay

but you lose the more efficient routing

drive to st. andrews, then drive to portree on skye - it's only 5 hours across the middle - do your skye time - then once a week macbrayne (this year it's on saturdays) runs oban to port askaig on the northeast side of islay itself - portree to port ellen is 8 hours of very hard driving - no motorways in scotland - 2 lanes the whole way - no passing - and probably 40 miles an hour the whole way - and that's nonstop - no meals - no bio breaks

note that the ferry schedules don't work the other direction - which means a 4 hour (not 2 hour) drive from oban to portree - but that doesn't matter because your going counter-clockwise to make the st. andrews day as efficient as possible

if you pair the frequent armadale-mallaig ferry with the once-a-week oban-port askaig ferry you have cut 8 hours of driving to 3, although the total door to door remains 8, you have turned the day in to part of the event, and  you won't be driving through argyll twice, only once, and you can still get authentic 1000-year-old templar stuff in the middle of nowhere, and if the tides are right, splurge on the zodiac tour of the whirlpool

however, the whirlpool becomes a 2ndary consideration in your itinerary because the st.andrews-skye-islay triangle demotes the whirlpool tidal chart to 'is what it is'

note that you no longer need to drive to inverness to get out of scotland

but the flight situation is now different - glasgow or edinburgh to the US with a domestic switch to austin is a better play than coming home through heathrow - ***IF*** the flights can be figured out - because united and delta will probably have a better schedule/price for scotland->USswitch->austin than oneworld

note that lhr->aus is a noon departure, so either glasgow/edinburgh FLYING to LHR works - if you take a 430am train to kings cross

but more on flights later - still plenty of time to figure that out

[SmokeyTheBear 5554]

On 6/8/2024 at 4:13 PM, Dbeasy said:

So I’ve figured out that to see distilleries on Isle of Islay, we would have to skip Iverness. Is skipping it that big of a deal?

It also creates a scenario where we might be able to take the train from Glasgow to Oban, and then rent a car there and use it on Isle of Skyle

 

 

 

Stayed 2 days there last summer. I would recommend Islay over it.  The drive up to Inverness is pretty,  and you'll get to see a lot of the Highlands and Ness,  but I thought the prettiest part of Scotland was the islands and the drive from the islands to Edinburgh.  There's not a ton in Inverness to see. Cool little town,  I enjoyed our stay,  but nothing particularly special. 

[Dbeasy 14756]

On 6/9/2024 at 6:35 PM, Hagbard Celine said:

you want st. andrews, and british rail stopped serving st. andrews in 1969: http://www.starlink-campaign.org.uk/

the closest station is leuchars 6 miles north; trains take only an hour from waverly, but then there is a bus ride or uber in to the city centre; so let's call that another 30 mins, and up the total waverly->st.andrews time to 90 minutes

in order to get the savings of staying in the same room that night you have to add that 90 minutes going back to edinburgh - you can get a car in downtown edinburgh the next day and drive to islay

but you lose the more efficient routing

drive to st. andrews, then drive to portree on skye - it's only 5 hours across the middle - do your skye time - then once a week macbrayne (this year it's on saturdays) runs oban to port askaig on the northeast side of islay itself - portree to port ellen is 8 hours of very hard driving - no motorways in scotland - 2 lanes the whole way - no passing - and probably 40 miles an hour the whole way - and that's nonstop - no meals - no bio breaks

note that the ferry schedules don't work the other direction - which means a 4 hour (not 2 hour) drive from oban to portree - but that doesn't matter because your going counter-clockwise to make the st. andrews day as efficient as possible

if you pair the frequent armadale-mallaig ferry with the once-a-week oban-port askaig ferry you have cut 8 hours of driving to 3, although the total door to door remains 8, you have turned the day in to part of the event, and  you won't be driving through argyll twice, only once, and you can still get authentic 1000-year-old templar stuff in the middle of nowhere, and if the tides are right, splurge on the zodiac tour of the whirlpool

however, the whirlpool becomes a 2ndary consideration in your itinerary because the st.andrews-skye-islay triangle demotes the whirlpool tidal chart to 'is what it is'

note that you no longer need to drive to inverness to get out of scotland

but the flight situation is now different - glasgow or edinburgh to the US with a domestic switch to austin is a better play than coming home through heathrow - ***IF*** the flights can be figured out - because united and delta will probably have a better schedule/price for scotland->USswitch->austin than oneworld

note that lhr->aus is a noon departure, so either glasgow/edinburgh FLYING to LHR works - if you take a 430am train to kings cross

but more on flights later - still plenty of time to figure that out

holy cow, this information is incredible. I got sidelined for the last several weeks because I was in Colorado and then had a surgery. I'm just now trying to firm up the plan. Let me digest all of this. Thank you so much for the input.

[Dbeasy 14756]

On 6/9/2024 at 6:35 PM, Hagbard Celine said:

you want st. andrews, and british rail stopped serving st. andrews in 1969: http://www.starlink-campaign.org.uk/

the closest station is leuchars 6 miles north; trains take only an hour from waverly, but then there is a bus ride or uber in to the city centre; so let's call that another 30 mins, and up the total waverly->st.andrews time to 90 minutes

in order to get the savings of staying in the same room that night you have to add that 90 minutes going back to edinburgh - you can get a car in downtown edinburgh the next day and drive to islay

but you lose the more efficient routing

drive to st. andrews, then drive to portree on skye - it's only 5 hours across the middle - do your skye time - then once a week macbrayne (this year it's on saturdays) runs oban to port askaig on the northeast side of islay itself - portree to port ellen is 8 hours of very hard driving - no motorways in scotland - 2 lanes the whole way - no passing - and probably 40 miles an hour the whole way - and that's nonstop - no meals - no bio breaks

note that the ferry schedules don't work the other direction - which means a 4 hour (not 2 hour) drive from oban to portree - but that doesn't matter because your going counter-clockwise to make the st. andrews day as efficient as possible

if you pair the frequent armadale-mallaig ferry with the once-a-week oban-port askaig ferry you have cut 8 hours of driving to 3, although the total door to door remains 8, you have turned the day in to part of the event, and  you won't be driving through argyll twice, only once, and you can still get authentic 1000-year-old templar stuff in the middle of nowhere, and if the tides are right, splurge on the zodiac tour of the whirlpool

however, the whirlpool becomes a 2ndary consideration in your itinerary because the st.andrews-skye-islay triangle demotes the whirlpool tidal chart to 'is what it is'

note that you no longer need to drive to inverness to get out of scotland

but the flight situation is now different - glasgow or edinburgh to the US with a domestic switch to austin is a better play than coming home through heathrow - ***IF*** the flights can be figured out - because united and delta will probably have a better schedule/price for scotland->USswitch->austin than oneworld

note that lhr->aus is a noon departure, so either glasgow/edinburgh FLYING to LHR works - if you take a 430am train to kings cross

but more on flights later - still plenty of time to figure that out

So I think I can follow most of what you've described. I understand now the challenge of going out to St. Andrews. Also complicating it is that we might try to sign up to play while there and wait in line. So, I'm leaning toward spending the night in St Andrews, and then doing what you suggested, head straight to Portree.

We would then go to Oban and spend a few days, although I don't know what we will be doing there.  If we do that, then the drive from Portree to Oban is fine. We'd then take the ferry from Oban to Port Ellen. I didn't understand your comment about the ferry schedules not working in the other direction.

We would then drive from Port Ellen to Glasgow and fly out of Glasgow to London or the US. 

[gsoda3 3192]

I don't know how well known this is but St Andrews has a putt putt course called Himalayas you can play on for cheap.  Less than 10 GBP per person.  They start taking reservations 3 days out but even without reservations you won't have a problem walking up.  

[Dbeasy 14756]

Ok, I've finalized an itinerary where we go from Edinburgh to St Andrews to Portlee/Islay to Oban to Islay to Glasgow over a few weeks. I've been able to work around some limited hotel availability, a festival, and a few other items that were making planning difficult. Just a side note, Hagbard had nailed it. His itinerary made more sense for what we were doing. Trying to figure out the best hotel/location to stay in Oban. If anyone has any recommendations, let me know. Or, if you would recommend a place out of town or nearby.

Edited July 15 by Dbeasy

[Hagbard Celine 10515]

i think you may have mistyped the first sentence?

you have islay in there twice with oban in between......

there is almost nothing to do in oban

like inverness it's a service/supply capital for another wider region:

oban is the fortress hub for macbrayne's hebrides services

inverness is the locus of the highlands, shetland & orkney

inverness does have the ichthyosaur economy, but otherwise same bat time bat channel

conversely, one can find reasonable accommodation with pressurized hot water in both towns, and outside of both, that's very hit or miss

i do know of 1 perfectly placed location that has proper plumbing, relevant to templar, columba and whirlpool pilgrims

[Brisketexan 103515]

i think you may have mistyped the first sentence?
you have islay in there twice with oban in between......
there is almost nothing to do in oban
like inverness it's a service/supply capital for another wider region:
oban is the fortress hub for macbrayne's hebrides services
inverness is the locus of the highlands, shetland & orkney
inverness does have the ichthyosaur economy, but otherwise same bat time bat channel
conversely, one can find reasonable accommodation with pressurized hot water in both towns, and outside of both, that's very hit or miss
i do know of 1 perfectly placed location that has proper plumbing, relevant to templar, columba and whirlpool pilgrims

Yeah, we’ll be on Iona in a few weeks. Really looking forward to it.

[Hagbard Celine 10515]

lmk if you want any gaps filled in

i lay scotland pipe

[orange dream 1200]

We will spend a week in Ireland prior to arriving in Scotland, but here are the bones of the Scotland part of our trip in the first week of August.  Thoughts on any "don't miss it" experiences along our route?

There are 5 of us ( me and the wife with our two early 20s kids and our 11-year-old) Renting a car.

Day 1 - Arrive Glasgow by air (walking tour) - spend night in Glasgow

Day 2 - Glasgow to Ft. Augustus (Southern tip of Loch Ness) via Inveraray (Inverary Jail) - spend night in Ft. Augustus

Day 3 - Private tour of Isle of Skye (R/T from hotel in Ft. Augustus) - spend night in Ft. Augustus

Day 4 - Ft. Augustus to Ballater via Inverness  - (Balmoral Castle tour) - spend night in Ballater

Day 5 - Ballater to St. Andrews via Aberfeldy and Perth (Highland Games and Wallace Monument) - spend night in St. Andrews

Day 6 - St. Andrews to Edinburgh (walk Old Course Sunday morning / Edinburgh Castle tour afternoon / Royal mile) - spend night in Edinburgh

Day 7 - Depart for US

 

Edited July 23 by orange dream

[Dbeasy 14756]

Yes I mistyped Islay. I meant to type Skye with Portree. 

on Oban, yes it’s doesn’t seem like there is much there but it is a nice central location to see Iona, and some sites East before we head down to Islay. 
 
If you’ve got a suggestion for a better location to be based between Skye and Islay, that would be great. 

[Hagbard Celine 10515]

@orange dream

it's probably too late to change anything about your trip, but you have way too much time in the car for the number of destinations, and you are staying 6 nights in 5 hotels

have you confirmed pressurized hot water in each of your hotels?  a power shower = an electric water sprayer that might or might not be above room temperature

i need to know your ingress to glasgow (all airlines and filght numbers including connections)

the date and time of your skye tour

why is the tour starting/ending fort augustus?

the day, date and time of your balmoral tour

st. andrews and the royal mile in the same day?  just because it's bright at midnight doesn't mean either of the castles stay open that late

your itinerary is beyond hyperaggressive and you are spending more time driving, checking in, and checking out of hotels, then you are "doing stuff" with the exception of the skye day

also, the number of "fast food" options on your route is measured in negative numbers

i need to know your egress from edinburgh to?  EDI to ?  GLA to ?  airline, flight #, departure time

finally, and most importantly, your 3 kids are likely going to hate you because european cars are VERY SMALL INSIDE and unless you have specifically rented an "SUV" there is no fucking way you are going to be able to get 5 of you and luggage for 5 in to a single vehicle

sorry to be a downer, but all in all, i would grade your fiesta a D-

 

[sidis 9659]

4 hours ago, orange dream said:

We will spend a week in Ireland prior to arriving in Scotland, but here are the bones of the Scotland part of our trip in the first week of August.  Thoughts on any "don't miss it" experiences along our route?

There are 5 of us ( me and the wife with our two early 20s kids and our 11-year-old) Renting a car.

Day 1 - Arrive Glasgow by air (walking tour) - spend night in Glasgow

Day 2 - Glasgow to Ft. Augustus (Southern tip of Loch Ness) via Inveraray (Inverary Jail) - spend night in Ft. Augustus

Day 3 - Private tour of Isle of Skye (R/T from hotel in Ft. Augustus) - spend night in Ft. Augustus

Day 4 - Ft. Augustus to Ballater via Inverness  - (Balmoral Castle tour) - spend night in Ballater

Day 5 - Ballater to St. Andrews via Aberfeldy and Perth (Highland Games and Wallace Monument) - spend night in St. Andrews

Day 6 - St. Andrews to Edinburgh (walk Old Course Sunday morning / Edinburgh Castle tour afternoon / Royal mile) - spend night in Edinburgh

Day 7 - Depart for US

 

while i don't share hagbard's passion for responding to a proposed itinerary by performing due diligence for a merger of multi-national corporations...i would say that i agree that the itinerary is ambitious and that your kids better be the kind that enjoy time in the car. we tend to think of something 90 miles away as an hour and a half drive. that's not quite how it works traversing scotland. feels like maybe one of your spots between ft. augustus and edinburgh should get the kick. if you aren't playing st. andrews, then probably a better time to be had skipping it but you do you. if you are in chill mode in ireland the preceding week, then maybe not too bad. but that is a lot of go-go-go that you better be confident the other four travelers are down for.

[Hagbard Celine 10515]

csb: it takes me seconds not minutes to formulate these responses

military-grade command and control: don't leave home without it

[orange dream 1200]

Aer Lingus from Dublin to Glasgow (EI 3222 depart 10:20A arriving 11:30A)

Yes, it is a lot in a little bit of time.  We have a 9-passenger van (Sprinter or equivalent) which I understand may be a challenge on non-highway roads but the alternative was not having adequate space for long stretches each day.  All insurance has been purchased.

I believe we are in good shape on showers, but time will tell.

Skye tour starts and ends in Ft. Augustus because they are picking us up and dropping us off at our hotel. It will be on Thursday and should start at 9:30 and end around 6:30 I believe.

Balmoral tour is Friday and we have a 1-4 pm arrival window.

St. Andrews plan is to arrive Saturday night, (staying at the Old Course Hotel) and plan to get up on Sunday morning and walk at least a portion of the course as I understand it to be closed on Sundays for golf but open to the public (like a park) for strolling.  Drive to Edinburgh afterwards.  Our Edinburgh Castle tour commences at 3:45.  Royal Mile as we have time.  Our hotel is on the Royal Mile.

Food (grab and go limited to non-existent) en route and drive times (may take longer than I estimate) have been my concerns as well.  Have thought about arranging with our hotel to make box lunches for us as we leave each morning.

Aer Lingus from EDI to DUB (EI 3553 depart 9:15A arriving 10:30A) to catch our flight back to US.

[Hagbard Celine 10515]

sprinter van is an EXCELLENT choice for your situation

google might map you down B-roads for augustus-balmoral shortcuts - i don't know if you "exclude B roads" the same way you can exclude tollroads here - study that route before you leave for ireland - otherwise it looks like everything you are driving on is "major" A-roads - the lane width is narrower than ours and there are no shoulders so concentration is required

read this:

https://www.ricksteves.com/watch-read-listen/read/articles/driving-in-great-britain-and-ireland

renting GLA and returning EDI also well chosen - check google maps for the location of the pick up and drop off locations at each airport for the company you have rented from

before you leave for ireland contact the royal mile hotel re: parking for a sprinter van and can you check in early on a sunday

can you drop off 4 pax and all luggage and then park nearby if they can't help you

if you have to park "not at the hotel" triple-confirm you can retrieve the van at 0600 sharp

best news of the year for you: aer lingus pilots have been threatening to strike and that ended yesterday - you dodged a potential bullet there

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/aer-lingus-pilots-vote-accept-pay-raise-ends-112192277

solve the above and your grade goes up to a B

you have several opportunities to make the drives from glasgow to augustus and augustus to balmoral more interesting - i will work on that for you

[Jatrain 285]

Since your dropping knowledge I’ll jump in with my trip (Golf is #1 priority then Castles and Drinking/eating) and appreciate any recommendations:

1st week in September 

Day 1:  arrive Edinburgh (Castle, Royal Mile, etc)

Day 2:  Pick up rental car, golf at Elie, explore East Neuk, Stay in AirBnB in St. Andrews. 

Day 3-5:  Golf in St. Andrews (18 per Day) plus explore St. Andrews and Fife(Kingsbarns Distillery)

Day 6: Stirling (Castle, William Wallace, Bannockburn) and move to Gullane AirBnB, 

Day 7:  Golf at Gullane and possible soccer match (depending on upcoming draw)

Day 8: Golf at North Berwick and Glenkitchie Distillery 

Day 9: Golf at Old Musselburgh and back to Edinburgh 

Day 10:  Fly out 

I could drop a day of golf IF there was a day trip that was very worthwhile (highlands, Cairngorms) but it feels like I’d need to do a second trip to really do that justice.

Thanks for any tips!

[Hagbard Celine 10515]

@Jatrain you have a lot of blanks to fill in

i need airlines, airports, scheduled arrivals and departures, and the cities/towns for each hotel night

makeup of your party: how many people, approximate ages etc.

rental car pickup and dropoff....

[Chewbacca 7617]

On 7/24/2024 at 8:48 AM, orange dream said:

Aer Lingus from Dublin to Glasgow (EI 3222 depart 10:20A arriving 11:30A)

Yes, it is a lot in a little bit of time.  We have a 9-passenger van (Sprinter or equivalent) which I understand may be a challenge on non-highway roads but the alternative was not having adequate space for long stretches each day.  All insurance has been purchased.

I believe we are in good shape on showers, but time will tell.

Skye tour starts and ends in Ft. Augustus because they are picking us up and dropping us off at our hotel. It will be on Thursday and should start at 9:30 and end around 6:30 I believe.

Balmoral tour is Friday and we have a 1-4 pm arrival window.

St. Andrews plan is to arrive Saturday night, (staying at the Old Course Hotel) and plan to get up on Sunday morning and walk at least a portion of the course as I understand it to be closed on Sundays for golf but open to the public (like a park) for strolling.  Drive to Edinburgh afterwards.  Our Edinburgh Castle tour commences at 3:45.  Royal Mile as we have time.  Our hotel is on the Royal Mile.

Food (grab and go limited to non-existent) en route and drive times (may take longer than I estimate) have been my concerns as well.  Have thought about arranging with our hotel to make box lunches for us as we leave each morning.

Aer Lingus from EDI to DUB (EI 3553 depart 9:15A arriving 10:30A) to catch our flight back to US.

I have a Sprinter and I have driven around Scotland.  There is no way I'd want to navigate a Sprinter around on Scottish roads.  Vaya con Dios, amigo.

[orange dream 1200]

Would you rather drive 5 adults and luggage around in a Fiat? My options are limited. 

[Incredulity 11160]

59 minutes ago, orange dream said:

Would you rather drive 5 adults and luggage around in a Fiat? My options are limited. 

Expect some OMG tight situations between road abutting hedgerows and oncoming traffic.  It’s doable but you will need to be focused.  Also parking a Sprinter will be a significant headache.  

[Hagbard Celine 10515]

@orange dream when do you leave

also why the jail?  it's #874 on the scotland list

[Chewbacca 7617]

Would you rather drive 5 adults and luggage around in a Fiat? My options are limited. 

The driver is not gonna have a good time, but you do you. My asshole is puckering just thinking about it.

[locodos 5230]

9 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

On 8/3/2024 at 7:41 AM, orange dream said:

Would you rather drive 5 adults and luggage around in a Fiat? My options are limited. 

The driver is not gonna have a good time, but you do you. My asshole is puckering just thinking about it.

God speed if you head up into the remote parts of the Highlands.  Also you, or at least I would, want to make sure your Ferry reservations know you'll be in a Sprinter van.

One more tip... on the small roads, radio off.  I got into a groove a few times and relaxed my attention only to be rudely reminded to pay fucking attention!

[52-80 18982]

On 8/3/2024 at 1:41 PM, orange dream said:

Would you rather drive 5 adults and luggage around in a Fiat? My options are limited. 

driving in uk is actually not that tight, certainly not compared to urban and medieval city centers of the continent.

for 5 pax a skoda octavia or superb wagon will be good.  they are the size of bmw 3 series on the outside, with more interior volume than 5 series on the inside.

should be comfortable for short drives unless you're a family of linebackers.

[52-80 18982]

or you might get a vw touran or sharan minivan or something like that.  transit kinda overkill

[Brisketexan 103515]

We're about to embark on our trip to the UK.  Long weekend this weekend in London visiting our daughter.  Mostly going to check out her hood, and some places/areas she's grown to like and wants to share with us.  Highlight event is the Tottenham v. Bayern friendly Saturday night.  Then on Monday morning, we head up to Scotland.

Edinburgh for just a day (we've been before) to do some fringe festival and then the Tattoo that night.  Next day, we head to the airport to rent our little shitbox car.  Drive down to Lanark (where my wife's people are from), just putz around town and that area.  Head up to Glasgow late afternoon/early evening.  Visit the boy there, check out the flat we bought that we haven't actually been in yet.  A couple of days there hanging with him and his friends.  Then we head west - he bolts out of town the same morning we do to go visit his buddy in Italy.  Oban, Mull, Iona, Skye, Lewis & Harris.  Lotta ferry travel (tickets already bought and loaded onto phone).

Oban is the only distillery we'll hit.  I'm sure we'll hit a castle or two, but we really like the out-of-the way neolithic sites along the way, so we'll be doing a bunch of that.  Hiking in Skye, same on Lewis and Harris -- I'll go fly fishing one day there as well.

It'll be in the triple digits here in Texas.  It will...not be that hot in Scotland.

[Hagbard Celine 10515]

chew/loco/52: orangedream's itinerary is A-roads and small towns

his only challenge with the sprinter is the end of his trip when he gets to a royal mile hotel - if that were me i would dump the team and bags at the hotel then take the sprinter to the airport, turn it in, and train/uber/taxi the last 36 hours

[Hagbard Celine 10515]

5 hours ago, 52-80 said:

driving in uk is actually not that tight, certainly not compared to urban and medieval city centers of the continent.

scotland is not like england once you get north of the glasgow/edinburgh

a lot of B-roads are 1-lane tracks with pull outs every so often, sometimes 1km apart

https://www.wandersomewhere.com/travel/guide-to-driving-in-scotland

[squib 1112]

Just now, Hagbard Celine said:

scotland is not like england once you get north of the glasgow/edinburgh

a lot of B-roads are 1-lane tracks with pull outs every so often, sometimes 1km apart

https://www.wandersomewhere.com/travel/guide-to-driving-in-scotland

Yep, parallel goat trails away from the bigger towns. Be prepared to possibly have to reverse it a hundred yards to one of those turnouts if you meet a damn bus or some farmer in a tractor--and you will. 

[GenXer 2479]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Oban is the only distillery we'll hit.  I'm sure we'll hit a castle or two, but we really like the out-of-the way neolithic sites along the way, so we'll be doing a bunch of that.  Hiking in Skye, same on Lewis and Harris -- I'll go fly fishing one day there as well.

It'll be in the triple digits here in Texas.  It will...not be that hot in Scotland.

Pick me up a bottle of the oban 2021 distller’s edition would ya?

[52-80 18982]

46 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

scotland is not like england once you get north of the glasgow/edinburgh

a lot of B-roads are 1-lane tracks with pull outs every so often, sometimes 1km apart

https://www.wandersomewhere.com/travel/guide-to-driving-in-scotland

Lived in UK and we have an office well north of those places. 

Number 1 selling car is a Qashqai SUV/crossover thing and driving there is never as bad as visitors make it out to be. 

[orange dream 1200]

On 8/5/2024 at 3:20 AM, Hagbard Celine said:

@orange dream when do you leave

also why the jail?  it's #874 on the scotland list

Arrived in Glasgow today ( Tuesday).

We ended up with a Mercedes Vito, not a Sprinter. I think it is a good size for us, room for everything and everyone, but not as large as a sprinter. 
Just picked the Inverary Jail as a stopping point on our 3-4 hour drive and something different than another castle. We saw three in Ireland and have two more planned in Scotland. I’m open if someone else has a better suggestion for something on the way between Glasgow and Fort Augustus. 
 

@Brisketexan in what part of town is your flat? Also is your boy at Strathclyde, U of G or elsewhere? 
 

Highs in the low 60s with periodic rain. Loving the break from the Texas heat. 

[Brisketexan 103515]

Just now, orange dream said:

Arrived in Glasgow today ( Tuesday).

We ended up with a Mercedes Vito, not a Sprinter. I think it is a good size for us, room for everything and everyone, but not as large as a sprinter. 
Just picked the Inverary Jail as a stopping point on our 3-4 hour drive and something different than another castle. We saw three in Ireland and have two more planned in Scotland. I’m open if someone else has a better suggestion for something on the way between Glasgow and Fort Augustus. 
 

@Brisketexan in what part of town is your flat? Also is your boy at Strathclyde, U of G or elsewhere? 
 

Highs in the low 60s with periodic rain. Loving the break from the Texas heat. 

He's at U of G.  Flat is on Dumbarton, in Partick.  Window looks out onto Partick Plaza, it's right above (I sweatergawd) the bingo hall.  

Grab a late night chippy from the University Cafe.  It helps if you're hammered off of cheap pints, from what the boy tells me.

[orange dream 1200]

We are pretty close to there, by the botanic gardens. Bingo and cheap pints … your son will be a hit with the ladies. 

[Brisketexan 103515]

23 minutes ago, orange dream said:

We are pretty close to there, by the botanic gardens. Bingo and cheap pints … your son will be a hit with the ladies. 

Yeah, you're just on the other end of Byres road.  Lotta cool shit on Byres, it's kind of like The Drag for U of G.

[Brisketexan 103515]

Sigh. And motherfucking motherfucker. Less than an hour into our car rental…and I managed to smack the fuck out of a curb in Lanark and flatten the two left tires. Waiting on a tow back to EDI, will rent a replacement car. Wife is flipped out, as we’re planning on driving all over for the next 10 days, and she’s a nervous wreck. Obviously, me smacking a curb didn’t help. FML.

[orange dream 1200]

Sorry to hear it.  I'll post a full trip re-cap later (arrived home last night about 10:30) but will say that my wife and I ended up saying things to each other we both regretted during our drive to Fort Augustus during a multi-hour downpour ( a semi, a pothole and her cellphone were involved). 😀

[sidis 9659]

what i imagine hagbard looking like reading the last two posts.

[4th&Five 41111]

[gsoda3 3192]

On 8/3/2024 at 6:41 AM, orange dream said:

Would you rather drive 5 adults and luggage around in a Fiat? My options are limited. 

we just got back from scotland this friday. we've got 4 kids so we rented a 9 person sprinter also.  drove from london down to portsmouth and flew out of edinburgh.  the motorways were easy, but there were some B roads and one-lane village roads with pullouts every 100 yards that were kinda crazy.  it wasn't my first time driving in the UK so i knew what i was in for, i can't imagine how someone does that for the first time.  

we stayed on the royal mile for a week and had to figure out parking for our sprinter during fringe/tattoo.  the best spot is a secret travelodge parking lot that charges 24 pounds per 24 hours on cowgate near st mary's.  anyone can park there, though hotel guests get a slightly discounted rate.  if you're going to try to park on the roads, it's 8 pounds per hour with a 4 hour max. between the hours of 6p and 8:30a it's free with no max hour stay if you're in a marked spot.  you can park on the street on a single yellow line after 6p (i think?) until 7a for free with no max.