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Beau Vine

By Beau Vine
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ocugolf
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Self admitted 

huge
huge

Hornsby in the 20s?

Beau Vine
Beau Vine

Behind errors and pitching wins, the sac fly is the baseball stat I'd most like to get rid of.   First, there's zero evidence that SFs are the result of skill/attempt -- historical fly ball rates

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WBT

WBT 20278

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Yeah Feller was the other one.  Between his junior and senior years of high school.  He also had an 18 strike out game at 19.

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Feller joined the Indians and made his Major League debut on July 19, 1936, in a relief appearance against the Washington Senators. A month later on August 23, Feller made his first career start against the St. Louis Browns. Indians manager Steve O'Neill had Denny Galehouse warmed up in the bullpen in case the 17-year-old Feller had early troubles, but he struck out all three batters he faced in the first inning, and recorded 15 strikeouts in earning his first career win. His strikeout total was the highest for a (starting) pitching debut.[6][8] Three weeks later, he struck out 17 batters,[6][9] tying a single-game strikeout record previously set by Dizzy Dean, in a win over the Philadelphia Athletics. He finished the season with a 5–3 record, having appeared in 14 games; he had 47 walks and 76 strikeouts in 62 innings.[10] Feller's fame reached such a level that when he returned to Van Meter for his senior year of high school, the governor of Iowa greeted him.[11] His record-setting rookie year made him, according to baseball writer Richard Goldstein, "the best-known young person in America, with the possible exception of Shirley Temple."

As the 1937 season began, Feller appeared on the cover of the April 19, 1937 issue of Time magazine.[12] In his first appearance of the season on April 24, Feller suffered an injury to his elbow while throwing a curveball. He spent April and May healing the arm, and in May graduated from high school; the ceremony aired nationally on NBC Radio.

 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 53733

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Let's just say that #12 is not a Hall of Famer or even close.

Also, the guy didn't even get a single MVP vote for 30 HR, .303 BA, and 6.6 WAR as a catcher.  24 guys got MVP votes that season, including two of his teammates.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 53733

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13 hours ago, Scraps said:

Mike Lieberthal did it too. What kind of question is this @Beau Vine ? Lol

This is the tortured sentence I misinterpreted:

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Only 12 catchers have hit .300 with 30 home runs in a season. Mike Piazza did it eight times. Three others -- Roy Campanella, Gabby Hartnett and Ivan Rodriguez -- are Hall of Famers and others had long and distinguished careers, such as Joe Torre and Javy Lopez. 

Fuck it.  I just want someone to explain to me how Rick Wilkins hit 30 HR and batted .303 for the '93 Cubs and didn't get a single MVP vote, even though Mark Grace and Randy Myers both did.

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19445

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I totally forgot about that guy.  He hit one out at the very last Cubs game I attended as a Illinois resident.  I moved to Texas a few weeks later.  /csb

It does bring up an interesting one we may have done a long, long time ago.

 

 

What is the record for the FEWEST RBI by a player in a season who also hit 30+ HR's and hit .300+?  

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32416

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Looked it up but the answer I found was not for a defunct franchise. 

Spoiler

Hanley Ramírez - .301, 33 HR, 67 RBI for the Marlins in 2008

None of the guys with fewer RBI with 30+ HR hit .300 but my source could suck 

 

Edited by Huckleberry
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YGIFS

YGIFS 19445

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Yep, it was Hanley Ramirez.  Saw it in a book awhile back and I guess my brain crossed Marlins with Montreal (hence the defunct comment).  .301, 33hrs, 67rbi.......and almost all of that as a leadoff hitter---batted leadoff in 137 of his 153 games.  Marlins had a very sad 7-8-9 end to the order to setup Ramirez, so understandable.  

He overtook Brook Jacoby who hit .300 on the nose, 32 bombs, and 69rbi.  Brook, unlike Hanley, was shifted all over the batting order...anywhere from #4-#8 and all points in between.  Proving his manager didn't even know what the hell was going on with him that season.  

Y'all around my age will remember Rob Deer from our youth.  I remember him as this strikeout windmill who would also mash the shit outta the ball.  Turns out Rob only topped 30 bombs despite being in the show from 1984-1996.  Rob does have the esteemed asterisk of fewest RBI with 30+ HR's, having not been a leadoff hitter in any game (he batted anywhere from #5-#8 that season.  32HRs, just 64RBI.  Considering he was hitting behind BB machines like Tony Phillips and Mickey Tettleton.  Plus Fryman, Fielder, and Whitaker......pretty hard to smack 32 bombs and have just 64 runs to show for it.  

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 53733

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16 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Rob does have the esteemed asterisk of fewest RBI with 30+ HR's, having not been a leadoff hitter in any game (he batted anywhere from #5-#8 that season.  32HRs, just 64RBI. 

Nope:

image.png.ed2ee90fe51deb72b51522598f93e4e3.png

 

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32416

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6 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Nope:

image.png.ed2ee90fe51deb72b51522598f93e4e3.png

 

This table right here ties in with the other thread where I talk about hating 3TO baseball. Top 8 all time within the last 8 seasons. More irritating is it's by 8 different players. If it were one outlier piling up seasons that would be kind of cool. 

Edited by Huckleberry
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YGIFS

YGIFS 19445

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My book "Astonishing Tales of the Baseball" only goes to 2015 when this bullshit home run/shift/strikeout deal took over the game.  

Mullins has an excuse though, hit leadoff in 149 outta 159 games.  Schwarber hit either #1 or #2 in more games than any other spots.  Same with Granderson.  Gyorko was most often the #7 guy.  Zunino hit exclusively at 7, 8, or 9.  Thames always hit 1 or 2.  Duda hit primarily 2 or 6 that season.

In that Renfroe and Deer stand together.  Typically hitting #4-#6 and just waiting suck.    

 

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19445

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8 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Next trivia question: Every single one of my posts has some kind of factually incorrect information in it, and my username starts with a Y and ends with GIFS. Who am I?

The question was right, I just mixed the team name in my head.  I know the trivia database in your head for baseball is the Yankees 30 times in a row, but some of us don't worship teams in towns we've never visited.  I mixed up Marlins and Montreal for a few minutes, the question about .300/30/fewest RBI was accurate.  

The next remotely non-Yankee trivia question you ask on here will be your first.  I'll hang up and buzz in.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 53733

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11 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

This table right here ties in with the other thread where I talk about hating 3TO baseball. Top 8 all time within the last 8 seasons. More irritating is it's by 8 different players. If it were one outlier piling up seasons that would be kind of cool. 

Felix Mantilla from '64 and Colavito from '66 were the only two of the top 20 that happened before I was born.  

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 53733

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21 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

A sacrifice fly is included in the calculation of OBP, but not a sacrifice bunt.

Why?

Behind errors and pitching wins, the sac fly is the baseball stat I'd most like to get rid of.  

First, there's zero evidence that SFs are the result of skill/attempt -- historical fly ball rates with a runner on 3rd and outs<2 are not statistically different from the historical fly ball rate for all situations.  

Second, it makes no sense that a fly ball that scores a runner is counted as a sac fly, but a fly ball where the runner tags and goes 2nd-->3rd isn't a sac fly.  You get a sac bunt if you move the guy 2nd-->3rd or 3rd-->home.

Third, it makes no sense to treat a fly ball that scores a runner from third differently from a ground out that scores a runner.

 

I could go on, but I'm getting angry just thinking about it.

Edited by Beau Vine
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YGIFS

YGIFS 19445

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That is correct.  The sacrifice, whether intentional or unintentional (long flyout to the warning track for instance), and whether on the ground or in the air, whether there's runners on 2nd, 3rd, or both...the way it can move between statistics for good or bad or indifferent has always been a curious exception to the rules of the game which make abundant sense once you immerse yourselves in them.  

I still remember a Cubs game, versus STL I think.  Third baseman playing just off the first and too close to the line with a Cubs runner on his bag.  Righty hitter launches the shit out of a line drive down the line.  3b Card in perfect position almost, dives up, back, and to his left and sno-cones the ball as he collapses about 10 feet into shallow left.  SS is just a few feet away from him, pitcher never even turned around just took off behind the plate to backup the catcher for a play on the runner on second (he was sure it was a hit).  The Cub on 3b quickly tagged and bolted for home.  Short throw but the Card is slow to get up and there's no cutoff where there should be one as he's throwing from his knees and can't make home plate.  Cub scores, runner on second freezes there as SS covers 3b.  Not really a sac fly, not really an error, he was going for a hit.  I don't remember how it was scored because I found out about beer that summer.  But I remember that play and how to this day of stats and instant replays, there's still much subjectiveness to this game we love.  

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32416

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1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

who holds the record for most sac flys in a strike shortened season when hitting .300,30HR's, with no sac bunts but not batting leadoff and is a Yankee?

Bobby Murcer. Definitely didn't cheat. For sure. 

Oops, still messed up. 

No Yankee has ever hit .300 with 30 HRs in a strike shortened season. Murcer hit .292 in '72.

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19445

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25 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Bobby Murcer. Definitely didn't cheat. For sure. 

Oops, still messed up. 

No Yankee has ever hit .300 with 30 HRs in a strike shortened season. Murcer hit .292 in '72.

This is correct.  I don't think he was asking the question in all seriousness, but you can stop once you realize no Yankee ever hit that many bombs in any of the strike shortened seasons over the decades.  Though there were certainly more than a few on pace to do it had they played the full season.  

 

What slugger is the only MLB player in history to lead his league in Home Runs for 7 straight seasons?  Fun fact-they were also his first seven seasons in the Show.  No peaking.  

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26437

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11 hours ago, dcar00 said:

OK actually serious trivia question.  This position player won the MVP with the fewest amount of AB's ever in a non strike season.  He also did not make the all star team for his league.  who is he?

Verlander won the MVP in 2011 and didn't play in the Allstar game (does that count?). Not sure if he ever batted that season.

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dcar00

dcar00 13957

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6 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Verlander won the MVP in 2011 and didn't play in the Allstar game (does that count?). Not sure if he ever batted that season.

position player/non-pitcher.  and did mean all star game team.

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