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Scraps

Scraps 13490

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20 hours ago, YGIFS said:

What slugger is the only MLB player in history to lead his league in Home Runs for 7 straight seasons?  Fun fact-they were also his first seven seasons in the Show.  No peaking.  

I looked it up, but I am surprised someone hasn't gotten this yet.  

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Self admitted 

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Hornsby in the 20s?

Beau Vine
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Behind errors and pitching wins, the sac fly is the baseball stat I'd most like to get rid of.   First, there's zero evidence that SFs are the result of skill/attempt -- historical fly ball rates

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32416

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That one is Kiner, missed the question. The latest question I have no clue. Logically trying to think of someone who was injured during the first half of the season to hit both requirements but can't come up with anyone. Seems like Kirk Gibson was always gimpy so I'll guess him. 

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dcar00

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3 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

That one is Kiner, missed the question. The latest question I have no clue. Logically trying to think of someone who was injured during the first half of the season to hit both requirements but can't come up with anyone. Seems like Kirk Gibson was always gimpy so I'll guess him. 

Gibson is a good guess but no.

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dcar00

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3 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

That one is Kiner, missed the question. The latest question I have no clue. Logically trying to think of someone who was injured during the first half of the season to hit both requirements but can't come up with anyone. Seems like Kirk Gibson was always gimpy so I'll guess him. 

I had to look up Kiner.  never would have gotten that one.  My first thought was Frank Robinson.  look at Kiner stats the guy is a probable top 5 "what if" player.  missed a good 3 years(maybe more) due to WWII on the front end of his career and maybe 6 or 7 on the back end due to career ending back injury.  10 years and 369 HR's 1015 RBI 1451 hits 48 WAR is strong.

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19445

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This is a fucking tough one.  I wanted to say Kirk Gibson '88 right off the bat, but that was actually his second highest career total for GP and PA, I always pictured him gimpy and injured the whole year because of that famous HR.  Then I thought about somebody who had a lot of PA's, but walked so fucking much, it brought down their AB #'s.  Then I thought it was a trick in that every now and again some pitcher will come in as PH like Zambrano and stick in the OF for an inning so maybe that counts for some badass pitcher who won MVP and played 3 innings in the field with 2 AB's.  

So when I was done failing at that, figured think about the standout "Least Most Valuable" guys over the years.  The ones who won the award who probably should not have because they got hot at the end of the year and recency bias kicks in.  Even still, most of the those guys are pitchers or still made the All-Star team in the field.  Searched Dave Parker, Terry Pendleton, et. al.  But all batted well over 550 times.  

But in the list of "probably shouldn't have been an all-star, let alone an MVP"...one man stands alone in the field.  

1979 Willie Stargell.  No all-star game.  Just 424 AB's, Just 119 hits and 82 RBI.  Didn't finish in the Top 5 in any offensive category except strikeouts.  And played a lackluster 1b after moving in from the OF after he got older.  Stargell stays red hot in October, taking home the NLCS MVP and the Pennant, and then the WS MVP and the Ring.  

Fun fact---though many writers feel his teammate deserved the MVP more than Willie, in Dave Parker.  Stargell actually was technically co-MVP of the NL that season, tying votes precisely with someone you also know as the 1979 NL MVP, Keith Hernandez.  

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YGIFS

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If you watch archival footage of then Commissioner Kuhn handing Stargell and Hernandez each their trophies and shaking their hands for the photographers...you can clearly see Stargell mumble to himself, "Who does this guy think he is?" and you can see, on the other side of Kuhn-the other winner mumbling, "I'm Keith Hernandez."  

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19445

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This one is gonna read a little clunky:

What NL hitter holds the record for most at-bats versus one pitcher without ever having struck out against him?  

Hint: both were amazing HOF'ers but this is just fucking sick.  

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YGIFS

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^

Yep.  39-91 v. Maddux.  With the 0 K's/.982 OPS/6 IBB's in just 91 at-bats for a guy who never hit a home run off of him.  

versus Smoltz: 30-65

versus Glaving: 29-93

absolutely ridiculous.  

Fun fact, Gwynn's worst performance versus any pitcher with over 20 PA's was against Frank DiPino.  23 PA's, 1 walk, 1 sac hit, 1 sac fly.  Otherwise 1-20, .050 BA.  Not great, Bob! 

  

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YGIFS

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Whoever it is has to be like 100 spots below Cabrera.  Miguel's been churning out 30-35 doubles on the reg for almost 20 years straight.  Since MLB over course-corrected for the shift single/homer v. walk/strikeout model nearly a decade ago...the double has become a lost art.  Whoever it is, has to be as old as Cabrera.  Cruz is the only one I can think of without looking.  But he's a little more swing for the upper deck kinda guy last several years.  

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 53733

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1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Tris Speaker is the all time leader in doubles with 792. Miguel Cabrera leads active players with 617 and ranks 14th on the all time list.

Who is second among active players and where does he rank on the all time list +/- 20 spots?

I actually heard this a couple of weeks ago when Paul hit his 400th double.  He was in 5th place active and something like 50 back of 2nd, so Cabrera will retire with something like a 200 double lead.

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Beau Vine

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2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Followup question - who is the active career leader in triples and where does he rank +/- 40 spots? 

About the only place you regularly see triples now is Coors Field, so I'll take the longest-tenured Rockie for the active leader, and that would be Blackmon.  

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dcar00

dcar00 13957

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there is one color picture on the baseball reference all time triples leaders.  Stan Musial, 177.

begs the question on unbreakable records.  Ryan's K's and 309 career triples Sam Crawford are certainly 2 because parks(no crazy deep CF) and game play(starters go 6 or maybe 7 on average) has changed dramatically.

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Scraps

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29 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Cy Young's 511 wins will stand until Robot Pitcher 3.0 comes along. 

20 wins per season is rare. To do it in 25 seasons would be superhuman. 

Na long after we are all dead and gone some dumbass people will change the rule to "all a pitcher has to do is start the game and if their team wins they win!" 

Some dude will pitch like 100 innings in the season and end up with 50 wins 

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YGIFS

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There's a win, that's a win.  

-How is that a win?

Yeah, nobody is touching Cy Young for Games Started, Wins, Innings Pitched, or Complete Games.  

I would posit that if the game keeps dicking around with this HR at all costs mantra, and these insane high strikeout rates persist, it's only a 5% change...but Ryan's K record could fall.  Somebody would have to start 30-35 games starting at 20 years of age.  And go 20-25 seasons at 225 K's/year.  Not unheard of, Randy Johnson did that pace in an era where guys were still trying to hit liners for singles and doubles.  Very improbable but with the changes in the game, not completely impossible like it used to be.  Other issue though would be managers comfortable with letting their guy go 7+-8 as S.O.P. instead of 5+-7 as it is now.  

And yeah, although the average hitter is faster on the bases now than in Crawford's day, the immutable laws of physiology wrt arm strength and physics of the ballpark's dimensions---nobody's gonna get anywhere close to that triples record.  

Unless hitting it out of the ballpark becomes an out like beer league co-ed softball, Henderson's stolen base record is safe for centuries.

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Beau Vine

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46 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

And yeah, although the average hitter is faster on the bases now than in Crawford's day, the immutable laws of physiology wrt arm strength and physics of the ballpark's dimensions---nobody's gonna get anywhere close to that triples record.  

The triples record is almost entirely the result of ballpark construction.  If the Rockies replaced Coors Field with an even bigger park and drafted someone like Elly/Witt/Carroll/Trea and kept him his whole career, the triples record would go down.

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Huckleberry

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Yep, but the infatuation with home runs isn't going anywhere any time soon. Maybe if I luck out into a few huge Powerball jackpots in a three year span. If I ever owned a MLB team I promise you the ballpark would be all about balls in play and gap hits. And if I had that much money the fan and batter complaints wouldn't make a shit to me. 

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Beau Vine

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23 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Yep, but the infatuation with home runs isn't going anywhere any time soon. Maybe if I luck out into a few huge Powerball jackpots in a three year span. If I ever owned a MLB team I promise you the ballpark would be all about balls in play and gap hits. And if I had that much money the fan and batter complaints wouldn't make a shit to me. 

I salute you! 

If they ever put a team in Mexico City, we'd see the triples record challenged.

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Helobious

Helobious 9425

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31 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Yep, but the infatuation with home runs isn't going anywhere any time soon. Maybe if I luck out into a few huge Powerball jackpots in a three year span. If I ever owned a MLB team I promise you the ballpark would be all about balls in play and gap hits. And if I had that much money the fan and batter complaints wouldn't make a shit to me. 

One of my favorite Cheap Seats moments was when they interviewed the Cardinals owner and presented him with their own design for the new Busch stadium which was being built at the time. It was 700 ft to dead center and 400 ft down the lines or something ridiculous like that.

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dcar00

dcar00 13957

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1 hour ago, Helobious said:

Dimgaggios hit streak record is unbreakable as well. 80 years and no one has gotten remotely close. 

the number of AB's per game hasn't really changed.  It is way more possible than the records we have talked about but is extremely unlikely.  shift rules may actually help.

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dcar00

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2 hours ago, YGIFS said:

There's a win, that's a win.  

-How is that a win?

Yeah, nobody is touching Cy Young for Games Started, Wins, Innings Pitched, or Complete Games.  

I would posit that if the game keeps dicking around with this HR at all costs mantra, and these insane high strikeout rates persist, it's only a 5% change...but Ryan's K record could fall.  Somebody would have to start 30-35 games starting at 20 years of age.  And go 20-25 seasons at 225 K's/year.  Not unheard of, Randy Johnson did that pace in an era where guys were still trying to hit liners for singles and doubles.  Very improbable but with the changes in the game, not completely impossible like it used to be.  Other issue though would be managers comfortable with letting their guy go 7+-8 as S.O.P. instead of 5+-7 as it is now.  

And yeah, although the average hitter is faster on the bases now than in Crawford's day, the immutable laws of physiology wrt arm strength and physics of the ballpark's dimensions---nobody's gonna get anywhere close to that triples record.  

Unless hitting it out of the ballpark becomes an out like beer league co-ed softball, Henderson's stolen base record is safe for centuries.

I suppose another Ryan could show up.  RJ was a) LH and b) could throw seeds and still could barely get within 1000 K's of Ryan.  zone is smaller.  you aren't getting Maddux corners anymore.  very rare for a guy to even get to 300 K's these days.  just not enough innings for starters.  RJ didn't even average 7 innings per game and he was a starter his whole career. but yes it is more probable than triples or wins or complete games.

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dcar00

dcar00 13957

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On 7/17/2023 at 11:36 AM, Beau Vine said:

About the only place you regularly see triples now is Coors Field, so I'll take the longest-tenured Rockie for the active leader, and that would be Blackmon.  

It is interesting because a triple is one of the most exciting plays in baseball IMO.  Play at the plate, HR stealing catch being the others.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 53733

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1 hour ago, VirginiaLonghorn said:

Jim Palmer .. first WS W was against Sandy Koufax (I think).

Bingo, and it was a shutout.  Palmer was 20.  And it was Koufax's last game.  I knew you'd get this.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 53733

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29 minutes ago, WBT said:

Just looked that series up.  The Orioles allowed 2 runs all series and used 4 total pitchers.

Orioles beat Drysdale 5-2 in G1 and then threw 3 straight shutouts.  

(I'm reading Kepner's new book now.)

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19445

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The lines on that World Series are fucking insane.  Orioles use 4 pitchers total.  3 CG's and a seriously long relief stint in game #1 (6.33 IP) to sweep.

Orioles hit a whopping .200 for the series, .267 OBP/.  What you'd expect from a Dodger pitching staff that featured 3 future HOF'ers.  Dodger bats had an OPS .260+ points below their season effort.  Also, Baltimore makes no errors to Dodgers 1. Crazy ass series.  Never be another one like it for the rest of our lives.  All the hitting on both teams, only guy overall hit over .286  

An entire World Series took 542 minutes to complete, 9 hours.  That's it, it was all over.  

 

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