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Bottlecap

By Bottlecap
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Pasken

Pasken 1309

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On 8/20/2018 at 10:17 AM, UrbanAchiever said:

Not to mention that the Kramer station is probably moving further north and away from the stadium site to accommodate the new employment center anchored by Schwab. That said, Cap Metro and PSV will find a way to put a new stop directly in front of the stadium. 

The station is going in the South East corner of the IMB (Broadmoor) Complex just north of Top Golf. The agreement is already in place and private developers have already committed to paying for a portion of the station. Cap Metro is trying to get grant money to fund the rest of it. The redevelopment of that complex can't start until the station is paid for.

 

The proposed MLS station itself isn't that expensive. It's all the track improvement Cap Metro needs along with the actual station including double tracking over Braker Ln. They haven't said how far south they want the double tracking to go but it's possible they want it all the way to their maintenance complex. 

 

The Red Line needs upgrades but by the time the MLS stadium opens, trains will run every 15 minutes which is an improvement and they will hopefully get clearance to run freight/passenger trains at the same time so more consistent late night service. 

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GabrielsHorn

GabrielsHorn 2142

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9 hours ago, Zepol87 said:

Not the first time it has happened. Houston is San Jose, but I won't hate this team nearly as much as the dynamo

Crush the Orange!

Also, I like it. Good throwback to the Treaty Oak (also pride rock at Zilker) and a nice color scheme. Will be interesting to see what the final jerseys are and whether they use stripes, hoops, or go with a solid color.

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15494

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9 hours ago, Longhorn Al said:

And Texas Stars, right?  If Austin ever gets a MLB team, I guess they'll be green & black.

Turning into Pittsburgh with the yellow & black (Steelers, Pirates, Penguins).

I kind of like the yellow-black thing Pittsburgh does across all its sports teams.  I wouldn't mind if we adopted the same thing.

In Pittsburgh, though, it derives from their reasonably distinctive city flag:

 

2000px-Flag_of_Pittsburgh,_Pennsylvania.

 

If we're going to adopt a similar aesthetic, we're going to need a new city flag.  We need a new city flag regardless--our current one sucks.

Edited by Ghost of LL
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GabrielsHorn

GabrielsHorn 2142

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city-of-austin.png

http://austinfound.blog.statesman.com/2015/08/27/a-brief-history-of-the-city-of-austins-flag/

Quote

The flag was officially adopted by a 4-0 vote (one councilman was absent) at a City Council meeting on April 12, 1919:

snippet 2

The new municipal flag included the following the major elements: 

Red, white and blue central emblem: A nod to both the nation and state’s colors, naturally.

“Orange” lamp of knowledge: The lamp of knowledge was added to pay homage to the “educational advantages of Austin,” particularly those from the University of Texas.

Outline of the Texas State Capitol Building: An advertisement for the original contest in “Architect and Engineer” read: “Features that may be expressed in the designs are the natural beauty of Austin, the lake and dam, the capital of the State, the dome of the Capitol, the seal of the city, an educational center, its industries…”

Modified Coat-of-Arms of Stephen F. Austin: The wings and cross elements are remnants of Stephen F. Austin’s family crest. The inclusion of the Latin cross was later the subject of a lawsuit, in which an Austin man named Jon Murray unsuccessfully sued on the grounds that the Christian insignia was in violation of the right to freedom of religion.

It's pretty awful

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tokamak

tokamak 6352

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Are these 20-25k MLS stadiums generally built to be expandable? They never really look like it to me, but I'm sure that MLS is holding out hope that one day all its teams will be drawing more like 40k. I guess that's a "we'll deal with that if/when it ever happens" type problem?

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UrbanAchiever

UrbanAchiever 276

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19 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Are these 20-25k MLS stadiums generally built to be expandable? They never really look like it to me, but I'm sure that MLS is holding out hope that one day all its teams will be drawing more like 40k. I guess that's a "we'll deal with that if/when it ever happens" type problem?

I've been wondering that too. 

With the exception of Atlanta, most of the new stadiums are built in that 20-25K range. It seems like franchises would want to plan for future growth especially considering how wildly successful Atlanta's attendance has been.

Audi Field (D.C.), 2018 - 20,000
Banc of California Stadium (LAFC), 2018 - 22,000
Orlando City Stadium, 2017 - 25,500
Mercedes Benz Stadium (Atlanta), 2017 - 42,500 for Atlanta United FC configuration
Avaya Stadium (San Jose), 2015 - 18,000
BBVA Compass Stadium (Houston), 2012 - 22,039
Saputo Stadium (Montreal), 20,801 

I'm also curious to see who steps up for naming rights for Austin. 

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Dirk X West

Dirk X West 772

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47 minutes ago, UrbanAchiever said:

I've been wondering that too. 

With the exception of Atlanta, most of the new stadiums are built in that 20-25K range. It seems like franchises would want to plan for future growth especially considering how wildly successful Atlanta's attendance has been.

Audi Field (D.C.), 2018 - 20,000
Banc of California Stadium (LAFC), 2018 - 22,000
Orlando City Stadium, 2017 - 25,500
Mercedes Benz Stadium (Atlanta), 2017 - 42,500 for Atlanta United FC configuration
Avaya Stadium (San Jose), 2015 - 18,000
BBVA Compass Stadium (Houston), 2012 - 22,039
Saputo Stadium (Montreal), 20,801 

I'm also curious to see who steps up for naming rights for Austin. 

Seattle, like Atlanta, also shares a stadium with an NFL team and also draws Atlanta-like crowds (I understand you're talking about relatively new stadiums).

Anyhow, I've only seen two MLS stadiums in person, in Frisco (FC Dallas) and in Harrison, NJ (Red Bulls).  The Frisco one looks like it was built with expansion in mind.  It's nice enough, but so basic you have to think they had planned to add on to it later.  The Red Bulls' stadium is circular and has an overhang all around, so, while I'm no architect, I have to think it's as big as it'll ever be.

That being said, if MLS could draw at least 20,000 most of the time in most cities with a few outliers like Atlanta and Seattle, I would think they would be quite happy.  Then again, the fact that they even awarded a franchise to Columbus in the first place (and that they allowed FC Dallas to be placed in Frisco, which is more or less a permanent handicap to that franchise) makes me think that, at least as of the mid '90s, they had no idea how big pro soccer could be in the US.   

 

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12850

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12 hours ago, GabrielsHorn said:

Crush the Orange!

Also, I like it. Good throwback to the Treaty Oak (also pride rock at Zilker) and a nice color scheme. Will be interesting to see what the final jerseys are and whether they use stripes, hoops, or go with a solid color.

Super hoops!!! Just steal Celtic’s jersey and be done

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Zepol87

Zepol87 9172

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In the defense of Frisco, it does let FC Dallas be an epicenter of youth development. Acres and acres of practice fields. I hope eventually that FCA works out a way to have lots of youth coaching and stuff. 


We have the best development and youth teams going. Hopefully it stays that way cause our owner is a cheap fucking cocksucker.
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Napoleon

Napoleon 8614

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On 8/22/2018 at 7:01 PM, Bottlecap said:

OH FUCK. That crest is whole hund.

Name is kinda generic, but at least its not fucking Bats FC or Grackle Dispshits. And the colors are awesome. I can dig this.

 

 

The F and the C
Are hugging the tree
It looks pretty Austin to me.

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AUinHsv

AUinHsv 576

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On 8/22/2018 at 11:49 PM, Pasken said:

The station is going in the South East corner of the IMB (Broadmoor) Complex just north of Top Golf. The agreement is already in place and private developers have already committed to paying for a portion of the station. Cap Metro is trying to get grant money to fund the rest of it. The redevelopment of that complex can't start until the station is paid for.

 

The proposed MLS station itself isn't that expensive. It's all the track improvement Cap Metro needs along with the actual station including double tracking over Braker Ln. They haven't said how far south they want the double tracking to go but it's possible they want it all the way to their maintenance complex. 

 

The Red Line needs upgrades but by the time the MLS stadium opens, trains will run every 15 minutes which is an improvement and they will hopefully get clearance to run freight/passenger trains at the same time so more consistent late night service. 

which is where it should have been in first place. Never understood that Kramer location - no parking etc. before retiring from IBM I was really mad about this. I could walk to Lakeline station from my house at Avery bit couldn't take train to IBM because it involved hiking about a mile from Kramer back to IBM. No clue why they didn't negotiate with IBM to have a station close to them or the Domain.

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Pasken

Pasken 1309

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2 hours ago, AUinHsv said:

which is where it should have been in first place. Never understood that Kramer location - no parking etc. before retiring from IBM I was really mad about this. I could walk to Lakeline station from my house at Avery bit couldn't take train to IBM because it involved hiking about a mile from Kramer back to IBM. No clue why they didn't negotiate with IBM to have a station close to them or the Domain.

They tried but could not reach an agreement so the put it on Kramer. 

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Dirk X West

Dirk X West 772

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13 hours ago, CleverNickname said:

In the defense of Frisco, it does let FC Dallas be an epicenter of youth development. Acres and acres of practice fields. I hope eventually that FCA works out a way to have lots of youth coaching and stuff. 

Yeah, FC Dallas is a pretty well run organization and does well with the player development side of things, but that's a different point.  It's just a shame that they're so far out of the city.  If they had a downtown stadium, they'd draw maybe twice as many people.  It unfortunately feeds into the narrative that "Texas doesn't support pro soccer and doesn't deserve three MLS teams."  

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Napoleon

Napoleon 8614

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2 hours ago, Dirk X West said:

Yeah, FC Dallas is a pretty well run organization and does well with the player development side of things, but that's a different point.  It's just a shame that they're so far out of the city.  If they had a downtown stadium, they'd draw maybe twice as many people.  It unfortunately feeds into the narrative that "Texas doesn't support pro soccer and doesn't deserve three MLS teams."  

FC Dallas' move to the 'Burbs was when the MLS thought that they could be the white/suburban/affordable sport that you would bring your kids to and they would love, because all suburban kids play soccer.

Over the years, they've seen that in most of the country, their hardcore fans are Latinos that like to bang drums, and those guys don't tend to live in former ranch land-turned-suburban sprawl littered with McMansions and 3+ bedroom starter houses. People who move into those houses usually watch more golf than soccer.

You look at that LAFC crowd and the place is packed with Raiders fans looking for a football/fùtbol team to support and they've found it.

It would be great if FC Dallas eventually used their Frisco stadium for their USL club (so all of the local kids could play in front of their friends & families) and a 30K+ seat stadium was built in Downtown with plenty of mass transit coming there. A stadium in the former Reunion Arena area next to the main DART station that will take over the space of the Dallas Morning News property would be ideal. It absolutely will never happen, but it would be perfect.

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tokamak

tokamak 6352

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1 hour ago, Napoleon said:

FC Dallas' move to the 'Burbs was when the MLS thought that they could be the white/suburban/affordable sport that you would bring your kids to and they would love, because all suburban kids play soccer.

Over the years, they've seen that in most of the country, their hardcore fans are Latinos that like to bang drums, and those guys don't tend to live in former ranch land-turned-suburban sprawl littered with McMansions and 3+ bedroom starter houses. People who move into those houses usually watch more golf than soccer.

You look at that LAFC crowd and the place is packed with Raiders fans looking for a football/fùtbol team to support and they've found it.

It would be great if FC Dallas eventually used their Frisco stadium for their USL club (so all of the local kids could play in front of their friends & families) and a 30K+ seat stadium was built in Downtown with plenty of mass transit coming there. A stadium in the former Reunion Arena area next to the main DART station that will take over the space of the Dallas Morning News property would be ideal. It absolutely will never happen, but it would be perfect.

I'm only a casual MLS follower, but it seems to me like the league has actually hit it's stride with relatively well-off urban 20- and 30-somethings. The stereotypical (new) MLS fan in my mind is a dude with a beard in Portland. Maybe it varies a lot by market.

Even if I'm right on that, it still supports your point that downtown stadiums would be a better fit than exurban ones. Come to think of it, that's pretty much always true with the exception of the NFL, for which it doesn't matter at all for various reasons.

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10763

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Posted
On 8/22/2018 at 8:01 PM, Bottlecap said:

OH FUCK. That crest is whole hund.

Name is kinda generic, but at least its not fucking Bats FC or Grackle Dispshits. And the colors are awesome. I can dig this.

It's uninspired Generica.  It looks like they lifted the Boy Scout Genealogy Merit Badge.

Worse, is the negative logic of black for kit, and hence for supporters, in Austin.  This is fully aggy.

Third on the List of Fail for Hunt Sports Group in Frisco was their failure to listen when we implored them to build vertically on the west side of the facility until they had 100% of the east side in shade at 730pm on 20 June.

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10763

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On 8/24/2018 at 3:48 PM, Napoleon said:

FC Dallas' move to the 'Burbs was when the MLS thought that they could be the white/suburban/affordable sport that you would bring your kids to and they would love, because all suburban kids play soccer.

Over the years, they've seen that in most of the country, their hardcore fans are Latinos that like to bang drums, and those guys don't tend to live in former ranch land-turned-suburban sprawl littered with McMansions and 3+ bedroom starter houses. People who move into those houses usually watch more golf than soccer.

You look at that LAFC crowd and the place is packed with Raiders fans looking for a football/fùtbol team to support and they've found it.

It would be great if FC Dallas eventually used their Frisco stadium for their USL club (so all of the local kids could play in front of their friends & families) and a 30K+ seat stadium was built in Downtown with plenty of mass transit coming there. A stadium in the former Reunion Arena area next to the main DART station that will take over the space of the Dallas Morning News property would be ideal. It absolutely will never happen, but it would be perfect.

The Dallas MLS Franchise went to Frisco after failing to secure a deal with the City of McKinney and McKinney ISD.  The Collin County Commissioner's Court, specifically Jerry Hoagland, brought in the City of Frisco and Frisco ISD, and together all 3 entities (City, ISD, Collin County) created a TIRZ that paid for "75%" of the facility.  HSG doesn't know target demographics from a hole in the ground.  "Suburban kids playing soccer" as a target market had zero influence on the Frisco decision.  At the time, Lamar had paid for the erector set in Columbus, and the Carson stadium was about to open (2003) paid for by Phil Anschutz.  Frisco was the first Division 1 facility in the United States paid for with public funds.  That's why it's in Frisco.  As we have seen with Chicago, this model does not cultivate the hipster demo, which is where MLS found it's footing.

Also, latin guys banging drums are just a subset of MLS' hardcore fans, and latinos have never been the driving force behind the success of any MLS franchise, until as you cite the possible exception of LAFC, almost 25 years after the league was founded.

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10763

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I want to amend the above by saying that after the first failure in Frisco ('06 & '07 seasons) when the Cotton Bowl crowd failed to return (they had killed it with the move to Southlake in '03) HSG in desperation in '08 turned to the "all about the kids strategy", and they have never recovered.   There was a point in '05 after the Southlake debacle that HSG was down to less than 500 season tickets, because they had burned their bridge with 100% of the hardcore support that was purchasing 8000 season tickets in '99 as a league-owned stepchild.

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skittlebrau

skittlebrau 474

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1 hour ago, Hagbard Celine said:

It's uninspired Generica.  It looks like they lifted the Boy Scout Genealogy Merit Badge.

Worse, is the negative logic of black for kit, and hence for supporters, in Austin.  This is fully aggy.

Third on the List of Fail for Hunt Sports Group in Frisco was their failure to listen when we implored them to build vertically on the west side of the facility until they had 100% of the east side in shade at 730pm on 20 June.

I’m prett sure that the local design firm who did this work is familiar with the fact that Austin is hot.

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Napoleon

Napoleon 8614

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

Also, latin guys banging drums are just a subset of MLS' hardcore fans, and latinos have never been the driving force behind the success of any MLS franchise, until as you cite the possible exception of LAFC, almost 25 years after the league was founded.

NOTE: Response written before your addendum was read.

Perhaps you haven't followed DC United for the last 20 years, are not familiar with why Orlando went from getting Austin's USL team to being in the MLS in just a few years, wander through LA Galaxy's end zone crowds, look around the Houston Dynamo crowd, attended Dallas Burn matches in the Cotton Bowl, LA Galaxy matches in the Rose Bowl BEFORE the move to Carson, and actually look at the Barra Brava of RSL (along with most of their home grown talent).

I am not as familiar with the crowds at NY/NJ Metrostars-turned-NY Red Bulls matches, the crowds in New England, Chicago, nor Columbus, but for most of the league's history, the Latin guys banging drums were what made it seem like the games weren't being played in closed arenas while the TV contracts, shoe companies, Phillip Anschutz, and the Hunt family keep the league from folding.

Only Portland, Seattle, and (probably) now Atlanta have massive crowds that aren't buoyed by a massive drum-beating latin fan base.

Edited by Napoleon
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