So when can I choose to opt out?

[Anastasis 23390]

51 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Medicare is the most popular health care delivery system in the country. 

Would sincerely like to see that data that support this.

[David Dennison 18646]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Would sincerely like to see that data that support this.

My mistake. The VA is slightly more popular.

[Anastasis 23390]

19 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

My mistake. The VA is slightly more popular.

I note that that survey fails to draw distinction between Medicare FFS and Medicare Advantage. Medicare Advantage, a private insurance administered form of Medicare subsidized by the government, is consistently rated higher in satisfaction than government administered Medicare. I've addressed in previous posts that I would prefer a MA type supplemental plan being implemented in an individual market that is removed from the employer sponsorship, with a sliding scale subsidy to help those that need help accessing coverage, and is back stopped by a catastrophic plan.  IMO, this would balance appropriate government involvement with a private market that drives competition for satisfaction cost savings.  Add in a heavy measure of outcomes based incentives for plans and providers.  Medicare FFS for all doesn't do that, but if you want to keep a public option in the mix, OK.  You will see the same trend that we see in the current Medicare market, with people leaving the government provided plan and migrating to the private Medicare offerings.

Here are the numbers when you segment government Medicare vs. MAPD. 

https://morningconsult.com/2015/03/30/seniors-love-their-medicare-advantage/

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Anastasis

[David Dennison 18646]

It doesn't draw a distinction because for all intents and purposes, Medicare Advantage is Medicare with administration outsourced to health insurance companies. You don't opt out of Medicare when you have Medicare Advantage. 

Those are pretty damn good numbers for straight up Medicare.

Edited June 7, 2018 by David Dennison

[Anastasis 23390]

13 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It doesn't draw a distinction because for all intents and purposes, Medicare Advantage is Medicare with administration outsourced to health insurance companies. You don't opt out of Medicare when you have Medicare Advantage. 

[Guest]

Below, Buffett and Gates just hired a CEO to fix healthcare, the point is moot. My $500/month for a family of 4 better not get higher tho

[David Dennison 18646]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

It's Medicare Part C, but you can be right if you really want to be.

Edited June 7, 2018 by David Dennison

[Johnny Sack 8397]

16 hours ago, DanRydell said:

 

Anyone who thinks they’re middle class while earning more than 97% of Americans has zero credibility as an arbiter of bullshit.

 

You sound poor. 

[David Dennison 18646]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

You sound poor. 

Unlike you, he probably had to earn what he has.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

The only health insurance for non disabled people of working age should be for catastrophic coverage. Everything else should be cash for services rendered.  People would shop for the best price and self ration. There would be absolutely massive savings in bureaucracy and administrative costs. 

You break your arm, you pay for it at the time of service or do a payment plan. No 15 different EObs and 20 different bills from your insurance company and 3 different service providers. 

[Anastasis 23390]

7 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It's Medicare Part C, but you can be right if you really want to be.

If what you are advocating is a system where a MA like market and plans are the cornerstone, we are very close.  Layer on a universal government sponsored catastrophic coverage that is intended to backstop the MA market and thus bring premium costs for everyone into check, include a fundamental shift in the incentives related to reimbursement, and a dash of policies that require pricing transparency and bring drug pricing into control, and we are there.   

Edited June 7, 2018 by Anastasis

[David Dennison 18646]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

The only health insurance for non disabled people of working age should be for catastrophic coverage. Everything else should be cash for services rendered.  People would shop for the best price and self ration. There would be absolutely massive savings in bureaucracy and administrative costs. 

You break your arm, you pay for it at the time of service or do a payment plan. No 15 different EObs and 20 different bills from your insurance company and 3 different service providers. 

We tried this and it failed miserably. That's why the health insurance industry exists in the first place.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Unlike you, he probably had to earn what he has.

I’ve earned every thing I own. Sorry that’s a foreign concept to so many of you. Making money isn’t that hard if you have some brains, save capital and have some balls. 

No wonder you types are so jealous and want to hurt people who can make money. Either a jealous loser or misplaced guilt.  Can’t explain being a liberal otherwise. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

We tried this and it failed miserably. That's why the health insurance industry exists in the first place.

When?

Because ACA is he worst of all worlds. And completely fucks the middle class by forcing them to pay massive premiums with huge deductibles where they can’t afford to use it. 

[David Dennison 18646]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

I’ve earned every thing I own. Sorry that’s a foreign concept to so many of you. Making money isn’t that hard if you have some brains, save capital and have some balls. 

No wonder you types are so jealous and want to hurt people who can make money. Either a jealous loser or misplaced guilt.  Can’t explain being a liberal otherwise. 

Says the Horatio Alger story with the millionaire grandfather.

[David Dennison 18646]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

When?

Because ACA is he worst of all worlds. And completely fucks the middle class by forcing them to pay massive premiums with huge deductibles where they can’t afford to use it. 

Before Medicare and widespread employer provided health care.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Before Medicare and widespread employer provided health care.

Reckon what percentage of GDP we spent on healthcare back then?

[Anastasis 23390]

Just now, David Dennison said:

We tried this and it failed miserably. That's why the health insurance industry exists in the first place.

Actually, in terms of controlling price inflation of medical care, things seems to work quite well until the government fully thrust itself into healthcare financing in the form of Medicare and Medicaid and the HMO act.  

 

[David Dennison 18646]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

Reckon what percentage of GDP we spent on healthcare back then?

Most people died before 65 or shortly thereafter, so probably not too much.

So yeah, let's go back to the good ol' days of paying out of pocket. It worked great for most Americans.

[David Dennison 18646]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Actually, in terms of controlling price inflation of medical care, things seems to work quite well until the government fully thrust itself into healthcare financing in the form of Medicare and Medicaid and the HMO act.  

 

It worked well as long as you consider most Americans weren't getting the health care they needed, which is why the government got involved in the first place.

Edited June 7, 2018 by David Dennison

[Anastasis 23390]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

It worked well as long as you consider most Americans weren't getting the health care they needed, which is why the government got involved in the first place.

And as a result, we are now at a point where many American's aren't getting the healthcare they need due to price inflation in healthcare. We need a completely reformed system, government should be a part of that, but single payer is not the "single" solution, imo. It might be part of the solution, but not the foundation, the backstop. Of course, this is all mental masturbation because our politics are broken and most of the deeply entrenched interests will fight real reform tooth and nail. 

[David Dennison 18646]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

And as a result, we are now at a point where many American's aren't getting the healthcare they need due to price inflation in healthcare. We need a completely reformed system, government should be a part of that, but single payer is not the "single" solution, imo. It might be part of the solution, but not the foundation, the backstop. Of course, this is all mental masturbation because our politics are broken and most of the deeply entrenched interests will fight real reform tooth and nail. 

I agree that the system needs to be reformed, but where we differ is that I believe single payer will be the foundation because we already have a single payer system in place for those over 65. I think this country is moving left on health care, not right. That's why the ACA was a historically important piece of legislation. It provided the basis for health care as a right. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by David Dennison

[Nivek 16843]

I thought health care was going to be cheaper and better and more people were going to be covered?  

[David Dennison 18646]

That's a really good question for Donald Trump. I'm sure he has some answers.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

6 hours ago, Nivek said:

I thought health care was going to be cheaper and better and more people were going to be covered?  

You have the right to be forced to buy insurance with massive premiums. And the catch is that if you’re middle class the deductible is so high you can’t use it. 

Obamacare — it works if you don’t. 

[Smax 3800]

On 6/6/2018 at 8:34 AM, David Dennison said:

They myth of America being the greatest country on earth is pernicious. We love to think we're number one in everything when in reality, we are a middling (almost backward) western democracy cruising on nostalgia.

so we do need to MAGA

[David Dennison 18646]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

You have the right to be forced to buy insurance with massive premiums. And the catch is that if you’re middle class the deductible is so high you can’t use it. 

Obamacare — it works if you don’t. 

That's not true at all. It's a talking point and a disingenuous one at that.

[Nivek 16843]

6 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

You have the right to be forced to buy insurance with massive premiums. And the catch is that if you’re middle class the deductible is so high you can’t use it. 

Obamacare — it works if you don’t. 

Your boy said he would fix it.   Obama is not in office.  Why not done?

[Johnny Sack 8397]

4 hours ago, David Dennison said:

That's not true at all. It's a talking point and a disingenuous one at that.

Okay. ACA has absolutely deep dicked the middle class. 

[David Dennison 18646]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

Okay. ACA has absolutely deep dicked the middle class. 

Not true.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Not true.

True.  

[David Dennison 18646]

Nah. But good effort, little buddy. You tried.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

[David Dennison 18646]

How much of that is Obamacare and how much of that is employer provided health insurance?

[GSU&UT 1798]

Holy fuck at anyone going after the ACA after Obama had to basically get rid of any single-payer idea because the COP controlled congress wouldn't buy into it, but did buy into Mitt Romney's version in Mass. Let's look at literally every other industrialized country in the fucking world. It's time for single-payer,

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-spending/u-s-health-spending-twice-other-countries-with-worse-results-idUSKCN1GP2YN

 

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-u-s-health-spending-growth-higher-1980s-similar-since

 

 

Edit: Incoming arguments of "well basically the US has to subsidize all those other countries because we do all the pharmaceutical research"

 

Edited June 10, 2018 by GSU&UT

[David Dennison 18646]

2 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Holy fuck at anyone going after the ACA after Obama had to basically get rid of any single-payer idea because the COP controlled congress wouldn't buy into it, but did buy into Mitt Romney's version in Mass. Let's look at literally every other industrialized country in the fucking world. It's time for single-payer,

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-spending/u-s-health-spending-twice-other-countries-with-worse-results-idUSKCN1GP2YN

 

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-u-s-health-spending-growth-higher-1980s-similar-since

 

 

Edit: Incoming arguments of "well basically the US has to subsidize all those other countries because we do all the pharmaceutical research"

 

The good news is that's where we're headed. We're only going to be moving left on health care, not right. Republicans know this.

[Tennesseehorn 101]

On 6/7/2018 at 4:30 PM, David Dennison said:

It worked well as long as you consider most Americans weren't getting the health care they needed, which is why the government got involved in the first place.

And the government has done such a bang up job with Medicare and Medicaid since the mid 1960s

[Tennesseehorn 101]

5 hours ago, David Dennison said:

That's not true at all. It's a talking point and a disingenuous one at that.

So which part ?  The cheap premiums?  The low deductibles? The mandatory insurance?

[David Dennison 18646]

10 minutes ago, Tennesseehorn said:

And the government has done such a bang up job with Medicare and Medicaid since the mid 1960s

I agree and so do the people who are on both. They are incredibly successful programs.

[Smax 3800]

5 hours ago, David Dennison said:

That's not true at all. It's a talking point and a disingenuous one at that.

 

Very true, you'd know if you ever logged on to their website and played around with the plans

 

 

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

Your boy said he would fix it.   Obama is not in office.  Why not done?

 

We have children on both sides of the aisle running this country

[Tennesseehorn 101]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I agree and so do the people who are on both. They are incredibly successful programs.

You are so full of shit. 

[David Dennison 18646]

2 minutes ago, Tennesseehorn said:

You are so full of shit. 

Really?

 

[Tennesseehorn 101]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Really?

 

Yes Really. 

 

You obviously have never been to a VA hospital.   People on Medicaid don’t even pay for their healthcare or pay next to nothing. Healthcare costs when through the roof when the government got involved in the mid 1960s.  Medicare is going broke.  

 

 

Edited June 10, 2018 by Tennesseehorn

[GSU&UT 1798]

But healthcare costs haven't gone through the roof, only risen steadily in literally every other industrialized nation that has a national healthcare system. Quit being obtuse you dimwit.

Edited June 10, 2018 by GSU&UT

[David Dennison 18646]

8 hours ago, Tennesseehorn said:

Yes Really. 

You obviously have never been to a VA hospital.   People on Medicaid don’t even pay for their healthcare or pay next to nothing. Healthcare costs when through the roof when the government got involved in the mid 1960s.  Medicare is going broke.  

Medicare isn't going to go broke. That notion is absurd. 

Your taxes might go up, though.

[Anastasis 23390]

On 6/9/2018 at 10:30 PM, GSU&UT said:

Holy fuck at anyone going after the ACA after Obama had to basically get rid of any single-payer idea because the COP controlled congress wouldn't buy into it...

 

The guy who killed the public option caucused with the democrats. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by Anastasis

[Jack Burton 35]

On 6/9/2018 at 10:05 PM, Johnny Sack said:

Okay. ACA has absolutely deep dicked the middle class. 

No it hasnt

[Johnny Sack 8397]

48 minutes ago, Jack Burton said:

No it hasnt

Yes, yes it has.  The average family now is paying something like $25k in premiums and deductibles for health insurance before coverage kicks in.  And no subsidies if you make over $90k.  How is that fucking workable.  Here are some articles on it.

 

https://nypost.com/2017/09/06/obamacare-is-making-the-middle-class-the-new-uninsured/

 

Quote

The Affordable Care Act is working fairly well for people who receive subsidies in the form of tax credits, said Doug Gray, the executive director of the Virginia Association of Health Plans, which represents insurers. But for many others, especially many middle-class families, he said, “the premium is outrageous, and it’s unaffordable.”

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2017/08/17/new-research-shows-many-in-middle-aged-middle-class-cant-afford-aca-policies-in-2018/#4fc7a66d461f

[David Dennison 18646]

What you are describing is a small minority of people who purchase ACA policies, which in turn is a small minority of people with health insurance.

The majority of Americans support the ACA. There is no going back from health care as a right. That's done. It's why the GOP was so terrified of the ACA passing in the first place.

Congress needs to act to help those people facing high premiums, no doubt. Instead, your party insists on throwing a temper tantrum for Fox News while it does nothing to actually help the people they claim to care about.

 

[Jack Burton 35]

55 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Yes, yes it has.  The average family now is paying something like $25k in premiums and deductibles for health insurance before coverage kicks in.  And no subsidies if you make over $90k.  How is that fucking workable.  Here are some articles on it.

 

https://nypost.com/2017/09/06/obamacare-is-making-the-middle-class-the-new-uninsured/

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2017/08/17/new-research-shows-many-in-middle-aged-middle-class-cant-afford-aca-policies-in-2018/#4fc7a66d461f

No it hasn't.