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What is an “Elite”?

Fastbreak

By Fastbreak
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Fastbreak

Fastbreak 3959

Posted
Posted

I have a college degree.

 

I believe if your house is burning down there should be a fire department that puts the fire out.

 

I believe if you are in danger, there should be a well trained police department that protects you.

 

I believe if you need to go somewhere there should be safe roads and bridges to drive on.

 

I believe that your child should have access to the very best education in a safe environment at minimal cost to you.

 

I believe that if you are sick, you should not be finically ruined because of it and you should have access to the very best care.

 

I believe if you or your child is raped or has an unwanted pregnancy then you should have options.

 

I believe this is the only world we have and we should do our best to protect it.

 

I believe that everyone within our society should have a chance to succeed, no matter their color, race or gender.

 

I believe that everyone should vote and every vote be counted equally.

 

I believe to support all of this, everyone should be taxed fairly based on their income and situation.

 

I believe corporations are not people.

 

Am I elite?

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freyguy

freyguy 4245

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

 

I have a college degree.

 

I believe if your house is burning down there should be a fire department that puts the fire out.

 

I believe if you are in danger, there should be a well trained police department that protects you.

 

I believe if you need to go somewhere there should be safe roads and bridges to drive on.

 

I believe that your child should have access to the very best education in a safe environment at minimal cost to you.

 

I believe that if you are sick, you should not be finically ruined because of it and you should have access to the very best care.

 

I believe if you or your child is raped or has an unwanted pregnancy then you should have options.

 

I believe this is the only world we have and we should do our best to protect it.

 

I believe that everyone within our society should have a chance to succeed, no matter their color, race or gender.

 

I believe that everyone should vote and every vote be counted equally.

 

I believe to support all of this, everyone should be taxed fairly based on their income and situation.

 

I believe corporations are not people.

 

Am I elite?

 

you're a goddamned Commie bastard.  That's who you are....

dr strangelove smoking GIF

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11555

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

I believe that everyone should vote and every vote be counted equally.

Every citizen or everyone? Any carve out for felons?

 

42 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

I believe corporations are not people.

 

Are Unions people?

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Nivek

Nivek 16861

Posted
Posted

The best of the best. (/Tom Skerritt)

Or a video game I played as a kid where I would crash into a spinning base.  Only to be remade where I can spend 40 human hours to fly to the center of the galaxy.  

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hpslugga

hpslugga 4044

Posted
Posted

I’m gonna demonstrate how stupid we’ve gotten as a society.

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

I have a college degree.

Snob!

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

I believe if your house is burning down there should be a fire department that puts the fire out.

Socialist!

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

I believe if you are in danger, there should be a well trained police department that protects you.

Beta Socialist!

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

I believe if you need to go somewhere there should be safe roads and bridges to drive on.

Oh goddamn there they go with them “roads” again!

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

I believe that your child should have access to the very best education in a safe environment at minimal cost to you.

Commie!

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

I believe that if you are sick, you should not be finically ruined because of it and you should have access to the very best care.

Go move to France, faggot

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

I believe if you or your child is raped or has an unwanted pregnancy then you should have options.

Devil worshipper!

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

I believe this is the only world we have and we should do our best to protect it.

Tree hugger

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

I believe that everyone within our society should have a chance to succeed, no matter their color, race or gender.

We have that already! Theres no racism here. No nepotism. This is a meritocracy!

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

I believe that everyone should vote and every vote be counted equally.

He’s trying to steal elections!

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

I believe to support all of this, everyone should be taxed fairly based on their income and situation.

Tax-and-spend democrats!

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

I believe corporations are not people.

This is the one you’ll get little to no resistance on, yet this is the one Republican political candidates believe most in, and there are so many who both 1) do not agree with the idea of corporate personhood and 2) cannot wait to vote for candidates who do.

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

Am I elite?

Well ya have book learnin’ but no common sense.

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bernorange

bernorange 8348

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

Am I elite?

Maybe.  Law is a funny thing.  The language has to be precise.  Your bullet point beliefs seem reasonable on the surface, but how do you propose to realize them?  That's where the rubber meets the road.  The balancing of competing interests such as statism vs. liberty is in the details.  The founders of our country wanted much for our country too, but they were quite sober about the dangerous nature of governments when trying to mete out a template for our nation.

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Longhornfan1024

Longhornfan1024 1707

Posted
Posted

It's a moronic trope that Republicans use to get their dumbass voters to vote against their own self interest.  Unfortunately, there are a lot of morons in this country who will happily embrace their own idiocy as long as they are given an enemy.  "Me learn stuff! Furk no, that's elitist!"  

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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6668

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1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

Every citizen or everyone? Any carve out for felons?

 

Are Unions people?

Just go ahead and spit out the dumbass assertions you're teeing up for here so we can mock you for it, you can cry about dogpiling, and we can all move on with our lives.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11555

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:


Unions are a collection of people with a common interest. Like corporations, they are not people.

So they should be excluded from political donations?

16 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Just go ahead and spit out the dumbass assertions you're teeing up for here so we can mock you for it, you can cry about dogpiling, and we can all move on with our lives.

exactly the high quality, rational discussion expected from the borg.

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 34444

Posted
Posted

If you work in media and shape public opinion and rub shoulders at Georgetown cocktail parties and shill for Dems you’re an elite. Unless you work for the network with the largest reach and most viewers, favored by the GOP, then you’re fighting the media elite. 

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 34444

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

So they should be excluded from political donations?

exactly the high quality, rational discussion expected from the borg.

I’ll do you one better, we should have publicly funded elections. Natural persona should be able to contribute up to a strict cap. Super PACs should go away.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11555

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I’ll do you one better, we should have publicly funded elections. Natural persona should be able to contribute up to a strict cap. Super PACs should go away.

Makes a whole lot more sense than having one side of the Capital/Labor relationship excluded from lobbying.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29794

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, bernorange said:

Maybe.  Law is a funny thing.  The language has to be precise.  Your bullet point beliefs seem reasonable on the surface, but how do you propose to realize them?  That's where the rubber meets the road.  The balancing of competing interests such as statism vs. liberty is in the details.  The founders of our country wanted much for our country too, but they were quite sober about the dangerous nature of governments when trying to mete out a template for our nation.

I'm not sure that answers the question about is he the "elite" scorned as enemies of the state by the rabid right. 

Written without rancor.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29794

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18 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Makes a whole lot more sense than having one side of the Capital/Labor relationship excluded from lobbying.

If you understood irony, that would be so funny to you and one of the great subtle posts of CR.

Instead, we have someone who believes capitalists are sorely devoid of political influence. The actual definition of capitalist defines elite no matter how many times GOP dupes wrongly claim themselves to be capitalists. 

 

 

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11555

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

If you understood irony, that would be so funny to you and one of the great subtle posts of CR.

Instead, we have someone who believes capitalists are sorely devoid of political influence. The actual definition of capitalist defines elite no matter how many times GOP dupes wrongly claim themselves to be capitalists. 

 

 

I completely understand that in your dream world it's to each according the their need, from each according to their ability..

Edited by Incredulity
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104628

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Elites = people who believe in book larnin'.

It's all about elevating dipshits to make themselves think they are the "master race" or some shit like that, and everyone else is part of an evil cabal frustrating them from reaching their sure-fire destiny of global domination.

It's politics of, by, and for idiots.  Which is winning.  Because idiots are the biggest voting bloc in the US.

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bernorange

bernorange 8348

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22 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I'm not sure that answers the question about is he the "elite" scorned as enemies of the state by the rabid right. 

Written without rancor.

It's quite possible that I read the OP and did not understand the intended implied context (not explicitly stated and I'm not watching much cable news or reading a whole lot of CR these days).

"Elites" to my understanding of the word generally meant people that purported to do unto others moreso than doing unto themselves: the political class, the rich/oligarchs (pupper masters), ivory tower academia, etc.

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Fastbreak

Fastbreak 3959

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exactly the high quality, rational discussion expected from the borg.

“Unions bad” - ummm why? We get it that the Rs have spent decades breaking unions a d speaking about them like they are the devil incarnate. But in those same decades we have seen massive rises in the difference between executive pay and the pay of workers.

0da0d8a0bba8fa8913fc745ea60a4518.jpg

We have also seen the loss of many jobs to other countries. This wasn’t because the unions were greedy and it wasn’t because these corporations weren’t making in many cases record profits. It was because profits could be made at even more extreme levels while foreign workers would more easily accept being exploited.

The Rs have been working at destroying America since the 1968 election and all of their efforts are now fully coming home to roost with the rise of an idiot like Trump and sociopaths like the Cruz gang of assholes.
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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27436

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40 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

I completely understand that in your dream world it's to each according the their need, from each according to their ability..

So our only options are monopolies or pure communism. You really are not bright

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11555

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Posted
21 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:


“Unions bad” - ummm why? We get it that the Rs have spent decades breaking unions a d speaking about them like they are the devil incarnate. But in those same decades we have seen massive rises in the difference between executive pay and the pay of workers.

0da0d8a0bba8fa8913fc745ea60a4518.jpg

We have also seen the loss of many jobs to other countries. This wasn’t because the unions were greedy and it wasn’t because these corporations weren’t making in many cases record profits. It was because profits could be made at even more extreme levels while foreign workers would more easily accept being exploited.

The Rs have been working at destroying America since the 1968 election and all of their efforts are now fully coming home to roost with the rise of an idiot like Trump and sociopaths like the Cruz gang of assholes.

Unions aren't singularly bad.  I have experienced some of the worst in unions, so that certainly impacts my perspective. Collective bargaining in a traditional adversarial process with management is a positive.  Public sector unions are the exact opposite of that.

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TexArcher

TexArcher 37519

Posted
Posted

Smart, educated people are the elites.

Being smart is bad.

Being educated is really bad.

Working a blue collar job, believing in Jesus, and voting Republican no matter what absolute piece of shit we put in front of you is the only way to be a real American.

You want to be a real American, don't you?

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9935

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Posted (edited)

Elites Theory of Democracy (tldr - cannot trust the voting majority to do the right thing)).

Quote

4.2.1 Elite theory of democracy

Some modern theorists of democracy, called elite theorists, have argued against any robustly egalitarian or deliberative forms of democracy in light of the problem of democratic participation. They argue that high levels of citizen participation tend to produce bad legislation designed by demagogues to appeal to poorly informed and overly emotional citizens. They look upon the alleged uninformedness of citizens evidenced in many empirical studies in the 1950s and 1960s as perfectly reasonable and predictable. Indeed they regard the alleged apathy of citizens in modern states as highly desirable social phenomena.

Political leaders are to avoid divisive and emotionally charged issues and make policy and law with little regard for the fickle and diffuse demands made by ordinary citizens. Citizens participate by voting but since they know very little they are not effectively the ruling part of the society. The process of election is usually just a fairly peaceful way of maintaining or changing those who rule (Schumpeter 1942 [1950: 269]).

On Schumpeter’s view, however, citizens do have a role to play in avoiding serious disasters. When politicians act in ways that nearly anyone can see is problematic, the citizens can throw the bums out.

So the elite theory of democracy does seem compatible with some of the instrumentalist arguments given above but it is strongly opposed to the intrinsic arguments from liberty, public justification and equality. To be sure, there can be an elite deliberative democracy wherein elites deliberate, perhaps even out of sight of the population at large, on how to run the society.

A view akin to the elite theory but less pessimistic about citizens’ political agency and competence argues that a well-functioning representative democracy can function as a kind of “defensible epistocracy” (Landa & Pevnick 2020). This view holds that, under the right conditions, elected officials can be expected to exercise political power more responsibly than citizens in a direct democracy because each official is far more likely to cast the deciding vote in legislative assemblies (the “pivotality effect”) and officials have more incentive to exercise power with due regard for the general welfare (the “accountability effect”). Moreover, under the right conditions, representative democracy allows individuals to assess the competence of candidates for office and to select candidates who are best able to help the community pursue its commitments.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/democracy/#ElitTheoDemo
 

Neoliberalism provides another approach to the “problem” of the majority making “bad” voting decisions (tldr: corporations should make decisions traditionally left to government (privatization).

Quote

A third approach inspired by the problem of participation may be called the neo-liberal approach to politics favored by public choice theorists such as James Buchanan & Gordon Tullock (1962). Against elite theories, they contend that elites and their allies will tend to expand the powers of government and bureaucracy for their own interests and that this expansion will occur at the expense of a largely inattentive public. For this reason, they argue for severe restrictions on the powers of elites. They argue against the interest group pluralist theorists that the problem of participation occurs within interest groups more or less as much as among the citizenry at large. Only powerful economic interests are likely to succeed in organizing to influence the government and they will do so largely for their own benefit. Since economic elites will advance their own interests in politics while spreading the costs to others, policies will tend to be more costly (because imposed on everyone in society) than they are beneficial (because they benefit only the elites in the interest group.)

Neo-liberals infer that one ought to transfer many of the current functions of the state to the market and limit the state to the enforcement of basic property rights and liberties. These can be more easily understood and brought under the control of ordinary citizens.

But the neo-liberal account of democracy must answer to two large worries. First, citizens in modern societies have more ambitious conceptions of social justice and the common good than are realizable by the minimal state. The neo-liberal account thus implies a very serious curtailment of democracy of its own. More evidence is needed to support the contention that these aspirations cannot be achieved by the modern state. Second, the neo-liberal approach ignores the problem of large private concentrations of wealth and power that are capable of pushing small states around for their own benefit and imposing their wills on populations without their consent.

Somin (2013) also argues that government be significantly reduced in size so that citizens have a lesser knowledge burden to carry. But he calls for government decentralization so that citizens can vote with their feet in favor of or against competing units of government, in effect creating a kind of market in governments among which citizens can choose.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/democracy/#ElitTheoDemo
 

Edited by washparkhorn
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