Trump’s NFL Flag Bullshit Not Going Away

[TexArcher 37508]

Trump knows exactly what he's doing.

He's got everyone talking about this completely meaningless "issue."

What we ought to be talking about is the fact that our president just started a trade war with our fucking allies.  Or the fact that he honestly believes he has the legal right to pardon himself.  Or the only interesting part of this fiasco: when he tweeted that he "insists" that people respect the flag, as if he has any actual power to insist on patriotism.  That way despotism lies.

This is changing from being an embarrassing sideshow to being truly terrifying, especially in the past week.  It's racheting up.  All the warning signs are there.  Trump is an autocrat, and an isolationist, and he's mentally unwell.  He's Benito Mussolini and he's got every network talking about a side issue that doesn't actually matter.  He's dragging us into an abyss and dangling some shiny bullshit off to the side so we don't even notice it.

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by TexArcher

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

16 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I don't. I just think it would be great to see them act in solidarity to bring the league to its knees, because they could do it if they acted as one.

Maybe.... I have my doubts, but they won't so it's not really worth realistic consideration.  The only way is if the owners back them in a corner by taking away large sums of money for not standing for the anthem in uniformity, something the owners don't want to do because they rightfully fear the fallout.

 

[Mole 4320]

16 minutes ago, Stringer said:

Why do we even do the national anthem before football games?   Why not do it before plays or movies?  Maybe before concerts?

I've been to many orchestra concerts that open with the national anthem.

[JimmyJames 12271]

Cakes, bathrooms, anthems, and kneeling.

Meanwhile the top .1 percent is laughing it’s ass off on their yacht.

[Tennesseehorn 101]

27 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I'm talking about the black players. Just stop working. What are the owners gonna do?

Whose going to feed their posse?

[ckhorn 208]

I think I have found the Millennial thread

[LongestHorn 759]

18 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Cakes, bathrooms, anthems, and kneeling.

Meanwhile the top .1 percent is laughing it’s ass off on their yacht.

what percent do you guess those kneeling are in?   team owners?

[bad_teammate 13132]

"I'm a customer! Please me!"

American conservatives are basically nothing more, morally and intellectually, than pissed off women at Wal-Mart.

[Satchel 6908]

I don't think any fair minded person would accuse all Trump voters of being racist. I do, however,  think too many of them live confortably adjacent to Trump's racism. To be racist adjacent is to willingly position oneself close to practitioners of racism, and whose adjacency is untethered to self critique or to any criticism of the trenchant racism with which they choose to associate themselves. It appears many Trump voters choose to do this without dilemma.
 

[LongestHorn 759]

Do his supporters even acknowledge his racist remarks?  Or was he just joking like the police brutality?

[JohnnyRage 1617]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

What makes you think every black player agrees with this specific political statement?  

What is the political statement, that black lives also matter? I'm sure there are plenty that don't agree.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

6 minutes ago, JohnnyRage said:

What is the political statement, that black lives also matter? I'm sure there are plenty that don't agree.

The kneeling for the anthem....

 

[RPM 26215]

37 minutes ago, Satchel said:

I don't think any fair minded person would accuse all Trump voters of being racist. I do, however,  think too many of them live confortably adjacent to Trump's racism. To be racist adjacent is to willingly position oneself close to practitioners of racism, and whose adjacency is untethered to self critique or to any criticism of the trenchant racism with which they choose to associate themselves. It appears many Trump voters choose to do this without dilemma.
 

This is true. The ones that aren't racist are just incredibly stupid and gullible.

[bad_teammate 13132]

There really is not much practical difference between a racist and someone happy to hold hands with a racist.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 hours ago, TornACL said:

I believe it started during WW1 at baseball games. 

A noble deal at the time, but not unlike God Bless America after 9/11, it became a thing they would never be able to step back from. 

Speaking of which, why do people stand and cross their heart during the 7th inning stretch for an Irving Berlin song written in the 1930s? 

The Astros shelved God Bless America and went back to Deep in the Heart of Texas a few years ago. 

[Mole 4320]

52 minutes ago, LongestHorn said:

Do his supporters even acknowledge his racist remarks?  Or was he just joking like the police brutality?

I think they mostly don't believe them. This is hardly a defense of Trump, but there's a bit of a disconnect between Trump as reported and Trump's actual words. When you actually listen to his entire speeches, he can be strangely charming in a President Camacho kind of way. I think there's a bit of a combination of Trump's anti-media campaign working and the media itself burning its own credibility going on here. And of course we're hit with so much information all day long, it's hard to keep up. I can't check everything and if there's enough doubt about those reporting, I might be inclined to ignore it, especially if I've personally witnessed those reporting not being truthful. We mostly live in echo chambers of unreliable second-hand information. There's also a bit of fatigue over the racism accusations (see every thread here), so people might be more inclined to accept alternate explanations.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Mole

[hayden_horn 11360]

1 hour ago, Tennesseehorn said:

Whose going to feed their posse?

I'm not racist, I promise!

[LongestHorn 759]

11 minutes ago, Mole said:

I think they mostly don't believe them. This is hardly a defense of Trump, but there's a bit of a disconnect between Trump as reported and Trump's actual words. When you actually listen to his entire speeches, he can be strangely charming in a President Camacho kind of way. I think there's a bit of a combination of Trump's anti-media campaign working and the media itself burning its own credibility going on here. And of course we're hit with so much information all day long, it's hard to keep up. I can't check everything and if there's enough doubt about those reporting, I might be inclined to ignore it, especially if I've personally witnessed those reporting not being truthful. We mostly live in echo chambers of unreliable second-hand information. There's also a bit of fatigue over the racism accusations (see every thread here), so people might be more inclined to accept alternate explanations.

I completely agree.  Facts can be distorted.  Especially when Trump calls FBI reports from witnesses "lies" in the two housing discrimination lawsuits against him.

https://vault.fbi.gov/trump-management-company/Trump Management Company Part 01 of 08/view

Edited June 6, 2018 by LongestHorn

[WhatTheBuck 28705]

39 minutes ago, RPM said:

This is true. The ones that aren't racist are just incredibly stupid and gullible.

And maybe a little racist. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 hours ago, TexArcher said:

Trump knows exactly what he's doing.

He's got everyone talking about this completely meaningless "issue."

What we ought to be talking about is the fact that our president just started a trade war with our fucking allies.  Or the fact that he honestly believes he has the legal right to pardon himself.  Or the only interesting part of this fiasco: when he tweeted that he "insists" that people respect the flag, as if he has any actual power to insist on patriotism.  That way despotism lies.

This is changing from being an embarrassing sideshow to being truly terrifying, especially in the past week.  It's racheting up.  All the warning signs are there.  Trump is an autocrat, and an isolationist, and he's mentally unwell.  He's Benito Mussolini and he's got every network talking about a side issue that doesn't actually matter.  He's dragging us into an abyss and dangling some shiny bullshit off to the side so we don't even notice it.

 

I agree that its irrelevant. But you are wrong. Trump isnt Mussolini. What Trump has shown is how little power the President actually has. He's either a decorative supporter of corporate interests or entirely ignored by them. We are going to go where Bezos and our other corporate overlords want us to go no matter who we elect.  WTF is a trade war to companies that can bypass borders and source wherever they want?  It's why the trade war attempt falls apart repeatedly. 

Fascists could socialize most of the means of production in Mussolinis day. They cant now. China capitalizes on this fact while we pretend we could nationalize Volkswagen for the nazi party if we wanted to. 

[WhatTheBuck 28705]

24 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Fascists could socialize most of the means of production in Mussolinis day.

Really? Can you cite some examples of industries nationalized under fascism? Volkswagen isn't one. Fascists aren't socialists even though the Nazis called themselves National Socialists. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, David Dennison said:

I get a kick out of watching the conservatives on this board act put upon and aggrieved.

It's really funny.

Says the people threatened by the fucking national anthem

[LongestHorn 759]

Eagles not wanting to visit the WH has nothing to do with the national anthem.  And when the winner of the Cavs/Warriors don't want to visit the WH, it won't have anything to do with the national anthem.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

[ConferenceRoom 6127]

2 hours ago, slorch said:

Says the people threatened by the fucking national anthem

Dude.

[Stringer 1437]

9 hours ago, TornACL said:

I believe it started during WW1 at baseball games. 

A noble deal at the time, but not unlike God Bless America after 9/11, it became a thing they would never be able to step back from. 

Speaking of which, why do people stand and cross their heart during the 7th inning stretch for an Irving Berlin song written in the 1930s? 

Yeah, I know it started then as a way to get more people in the gates.  More of a rhetorical question.

I am always fascinated with stuff like this and the can't eat meat on Fridays Catholics.  How does something that is based on economics become unassailable dogma?

 

[TahoeHorn 107]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2779699-report-nick-foles-only-confirmed-eagles-player-planning-to-attend-white-house?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

[TornACL 7675]

45 minutes ago, Stringer said:

Yeah, I know it started then as a way to get more people in the gates.  More of a rhetorical question.

I am always fascinated with stuff like this and the can't eat meat on Fridays Catholics.  How does something that is based on economics become unassailable dogma?

 

See : Texas A&M University

[ConferenceRoom 6127]

Negged for bleacher report, dipshit. 

[Fozzz 152]

Quote

Everything, everything, about Donald Trump’s two-year war against the NFL, which took its latest oafish turn when the president disinvited the Super Bowl-winning Philadelphia Eagles from a White House visit that the team seemed less than eager to accept in the first place, has been predictable. The only people who could not have seen it coming are the very people who did not see it coming—the plump defective oligarchs who run the NFL, many of whom gave millions of their own dollars to Trump’s rancid failed prank of a campaign. They believed that Trump was their peer or their friend or anything but what he is and has always so blaringly been, so they tried to make some sort of deal with him on the player protests against police violence and impunity that Trump identified as something that could be weaponized in his favor.

Because NFL owners are quite stupid even by the water-brained standards of the ultra-rich, they devised a strange sort of tiered non-compromise compromise on the protests in the hopes that Trump would stop ranting about their league and the ungrateful, un-American, subhuman thugs who are both its labor and its product. They did this without the consent or even the input of the players, which displeased the players. And Trump, because he is Trump, did not accept the deal. He’s a man who only knows how to do a couple of things, but one of those things is to find a bruise and then push and push on it. He does that very well.

https://deadspin.com/the-nfl-is-too-dumb-to-realize-that-donald-trump-is-nev-1826558748

[VRHorn 718]

I guess it's a good thing the NFL ostracized that asshole Tim Tebow because he knelt during the anthem. Oh wait, they didn't care about that - how odd.

[Smax 3800]

15 hours ago, 'stache said:

The smart thing to do was to say the players can express themselves however they want, because this is fucking America. 

 

 

So you would have no problem with your employees expressing themselves however they want in a room full of all of your customers?

[ScottishHorn 172]

18 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s only an issue because it’s divisive as fuck.  

Mixing race, police brutality, freedom of speech, the flag, patriotism, the military, peaceful protest, AND NFL Football?

It’s a trolls wet dream of a combination to stoke the flames around these issues.

This is Trump’s sacred cow topic now.

This pretty much sums it up.  

[Dahobbs 17437]

6 hours ago, slorch said:

Says the people threatened by the fucking national anthem

I have no idea how you got this idea. This is an incredibly stupid sentence. Congrats. 

[Paul Wesley 3277]

11 hours ago, Tennesseehorn said:

Whose going to feed their posse?

It’s kind of awkward when racists think they’re funny.  

[EMAWesome 101]

There are pretty much only three things you can do in this country during a protest that is going to completely turn off the other side and close their minds to your protest (which is exactly the opposite reaction to what you are trying to achieve).

1. Fuck with the Bible

2.  Fuck with the national anthem

3.  Burn an American flag

 

I'm not saying you can't do any of the above.  What I am saying is that if you are trying to get people to listen to you present the issues you are trying to broaden discussion about those are three of the most ineffective ways of going about it.

[Chuckie Finster 22598]

Just now, EMAWesome said:

There are pretty much only three things you can do in this country during a protest that is going to completely turn off the other side and close their minds to your protest (which is exactly the opposite reaction to what you are trying to achieve).

1. Fuck with the Bible

2.  Fuck with the national anthem

3.  Burn an American flag

 

I'm not saying you can't do any of the above.  What I am saying is that if you are trying to get people to listen to you present the issues you are trying to broaden discussion about those are three of the most ineffective ways of going about it.

4. Be black

[TornACL 7675]

While you're right in theory, I still struggle with the idea that taking a knee is "fucking with the national anthem."

 

[DDD Dad 14251]

 

2 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

4. Be black and sit peacefully at a white-only lunch counter/sit in the front of a bus/try to attend a public school/etc./etc.

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by DDD Dad

[Guest]

I disagree with Kaepernick because he's black.

I dislike Jason Garrett and Bill OBrien as coaches because they are black.

Chris Long is the sorriest black dude ever, because I disagree with a shit-ton of his commentary.

See how easy this is?  Everything boils down to racism, regardless of the merit of one's arguments/ actions in the discussion

Edited June 6, 2018 by slorch

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, TornACL said:

While you're right in theory, I still struggle with the idea that taking a knee is "fucking with the national anthem."

 

Why not do it in the press conference then?

 

If you ignore the value of the anthem, then it just reiterates how convoluted the whole message has been.

 

The very fact that it happens during the anthem proves that it's bigger than just police brutality.  It's about how unfair and imperfect ole America is.

 

Guess what?  It wasn't perfect when the rest of us got here either.  Move forward or deal with the shit that comes with stirring the pot.

 

Wanna talk cops?  then lose the Che Guivera bullshit and anti-flag speech.  Own what the fuck you're doing and stop changing your message if it's so gotdam profound.

 

IMHO, the fact that they demonstrate during the anthem without governmental interference only bolsters the liberty and freedom they allege not to exist.

Edited June 6, 2018 by slorch

[DDD Dad 14251]

8 minutes ago, TornACL said:

While you're right in theory, I still struggle with the idea that taking a knee is "fucking with the national anthem."

 

And while we're at it, how many fat fucks in MAGA hats are taking them off and standing at attention when the anthem is played?  The irony and hypocrisy surrounding this entire issue is off the charts.

I really hate the fact that Trump has turned the anthem into something that now feels like a fascist purity test.  I've always stood, held my hand against my heart and (when wearing a hat) doffing my hat to sing along with the anthem (or stand quietly at attention).  With Trump having appropriated this symbol of pride in my country, I now have mixed emotions every time I hear it.

Edited June 6, 2018 by DDD Dad

[David Dennison 18652]

1 minute ago, slorch said:

Why not do it in the press conference then?

 

If you ignore the value of the anthem, then it just reiterates how convoluted the whole message has been.

Why would you do it where no one sees your message? The national anthem is the perfect time for peaceful protest. It's also very American.

[kevwun 15624]

The man who dodged the Vietnam draft, insulted a Gold Star family and mocked a decorated POW is lecturing us on patriotism. Yeah, I don't give a single solitary fuck about his opinion on the matter.  I can't wait until he starts preaching about the sanctity of marriage.

Edited June 6, 2018 by kevwun

[EMAWesome 101]

13 minutes ago, TornACL said:

While you're right in theory, I still struggle with the idea that taking a knee is "fucking with the national anthem."

 

Considering the only time they take a knee is during the national anthem I struggle with the idea that it isn't.   (Full disclosure, my father volunteered to serve in the Marines in WWII.  He had a get out of the draft free card being the eldest son on a family farm and enlisted anyways.  So I take it kind of personally when anyone reacts to the national anthem in anyway other than how my parents taught me to react to it.)  If it has nothing to do with the national anthem then why don't they do it at the coin toss, or the two minute warning, or any of the 500 commercial breaks in the game?  Saying that an action has nothing to do with the national anthem when the only time that person ever performs that action is during the national anthem doesn't cut it as an explanation to me.

 

By the way I'm in agreement with the comment about the Trump supporters not taking their hats off during the national anthem too.

Edited June 6, 2018 by EMAWesome

[Foosters 17727]

6 hours ago, slorch said:

Says the people threatened by the fucking national anthem

hahaha fucking moron

[TornACL 7675]

2 minutes ago, slorch said:

Why not do it in the press conference then?

 

If you ignore the value of the anthem, then it just reiterates how convoluted the whole message has been.

Why does it matter? Why does a protest have to confirm strictly to what you think is appropriate?

I get the general concept that some people are trying to make here - honestly or dishonestly - that players are hurting their cause by making a protest during the national anthem.

My response to that is. It was inappropriate when CKaep sat down during the anthem. Then it was inappropriate when players took a knee instead. Let's not kid ourselves, it will still be inappropriate when they protest during a press conference. And it will be inappropriate on and on and on until they just be quiet. That will be deemed appropriate. That's ultimately what people want. Be quiet so I don't have to think about the country's problems, because everything is fine in my living room where the beer is cold and I have lots of potato chips and no cop is going to bust down my door and shoot me and then say "whoops I have the wrong address, welp, mistakes happen".

[David Dennison 18652]

Just now, EMAWesome said:

Considering the only time they take a knee is during the national anthem I struggle with the idea that it isn't.   (Full disclosure, my father volunteered to serve in the Marines in WWII.  He had a get out of the draft free card being the eldest son on a family farm and enlisted anyways.  So I take it kind of personally when anyone reacts to the national anthem in anyway other than how my parents taught me to react to it.)  If it has nothing to do with the national anthem then why don't they do it at the coin toss, or the two minute warning, or any of the 500 commercial breaks in the game?  Saying that an action has nothing to do with the national anthem when the only time that person ever performs that action is during the national anthem doesn't cut it as an explanation to me.

You don't get to tell other Americans how they should act during the national anthem. That's about as un-American as it gets.

[EMAWesome 101]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Why would you do it where no one sees your message? The national anthem is the perfect time for peaceful protest. It's also very American.

What do you mean where no one sees it?  It's a press conference there are media holding cameras everywhere in the room.

[TornACL 7675]

1 minute ago, EMAWesome said:

Considering the only time they take a knee is during the national anthem I struggle with the idea that it isn't.   (Full disclosure, my father volunteered to serve in the Marines in WWII.  He had a get out of the draft free card being the eldest son on a family farm and enlisted anyways.  So I take it kind of personally when anyone reacts to the national anthem in anyway other than how my parents taught me to react to it.)  If it has nothing to do with the national anthem then why don't they do it at the coin toss, or the two minute warning, or any of the 500 commercial breaks in the game?  Saying that an action has nothing to do with the national anthem when the only time that person ever performs that action is during the national anthem doesn't cut it as an explanation to me.

I don't believe anyone has said this, but the point they're making is that when we sing proudly about the "land of the free", maybe take one minute to consider if that truly applies to everyone.

I get that everyone is offended when people attack your notions of this country's virtues. What I can't get, however, is that people aren't even more offended when our country's virtues are diminished by bad actors violating our laws.