Lending (Giving) Money to Family

[40acredropout 2902]

Tell me about your experience. 

My older sister (33, single mother, high school dropout, no pics) just texted me requesting a $1,500 loan.  Story is she has fallen behind after having to take a paycut at a new job.  She said she wouldn't have reached out if I wasn't her last resort.  We are not close and haven't spoken in months so no clue on background/validity of her story.

This isn't a surprise.  She's made a lot of bad decisions and has been bailed out financially and otherwise many times (that I know of) by my mom and an aunt (also no pics of either; not that you would want them).  I thought she had finally gotten her shit together (relatively speaking) but now I don't know.

She proposed to pay me back with her tax return in February...so yeah, repayment is very unlikely.  The amount isn't an issue.  And despite our relationship being non-existent for the better part of two decades, I would want to help her if she's truly in a pinch.  I just worry about precedent and if it's really the best thing to do for her.

Thanks for listening and I welcome the Surly wisdom. 

Edited August 5, 2022 by 40acredropout

[immamac 43121]

If you have 1500 you don’t give a shit about then just send it. If you get paid back awesome if not who cares. 
 

if you don’t have 1500 burning a hole in your pocket and have another amount that is. Do the same with that amount. 
 

if you don’t have any spare cash you would be comfortable just donking off just tell her no. 

[After irth 1245]

I have a shitty relationship with my sister, so my view might be skewed. 
 

But…if $1500 doesn’t mean that much to you, just give it to her.  Don’t loan it. 
 

If you think she’s just moving on to you cuz she’s already sucked everyone else dry, then tell her to fuck off. And then brace yourself for the backlash. 
 

I’ve done both, by the way. 

[immamac 43121]

I will say 1500 is quite a bit of “I don’t care about this” 250-500 makes way more sense. 

[Gil Bang 26035]

I started dating (fucking) this woman.  I actually liked her, although she was no Pam Anderson.  Nice lady, etc.  She had been laid off.  After about 3 weekends together, she asked to "borrow" 300 bucks to make her car payment.  Because I liked her, I said no, I won't loan you 300 bucks but I will give you 300 bucks.  I'd rather you suck my cock because you want to, not because you owe me.   She fell for it. 

[Surly Bevo 25166]

15 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

I started dating (fucking) this woman.  I actually liked her, although she was no Pam Anderson.  Nice lady, etc.  She had been laid off.  After about 3 weekends together, she asked to "borrow" 300 bucks to make her car payment.  Because I liked her, I said no, I won't loan you 300 bucks but I will give you 300 bucks.  I'd rather you suck my cock because you want to, not because you owe me.   She fell for it. 

Good tip, be pretty weird in OPs situation though.

[TexasEd 8077]

[deadshank 24653]

Consider it a blessing to help and a miracle to be paid back.

Don't consider it a loan.  Think of it as a contribution and keep your expectations low.

 

[Celery Man 21001]

Is the nature of her shit not being together addiction related, and are there kids involved? But generally what they said. Especially the part about not expecting a blow job.

[CooterBrown 18031]

Good tip, be pretty weird in OPs situation though.

He said they’re not close at all so it’d be more like an old acquaintance sucking his dick.

[Quagmire 2147]

I’m also in a pinch but only need 1k, therefore saving you 500.

Think about it

[Hefeweizen 5333]

There are no loans in a family in my experience.  All that does is cause resentment when it isn’t repaid.  They’re asking for a loan because it doesn’t sound as bad as straight up gimme money.

 

 Your call, for some people it’s pocket change and for others it’s groceries for several months.  The main issue I have with it is if it becomes a recurring gift.  At that point you’ve acquired a new dependent.

[UTGrad98 2282]

Agree with everyone here. Give it, dont lend it. Allow her to make the decision on whether or not she pays you back. If she gets her shit together, she will. If not, well it is what it is. In the end, it's your family. And you always help family. If it were me and my brother asked for $1500 in a situation like this, I would give it but on one condition. That he seriously sit down and talk to me about his life and ways to improve his situation. For me that would be in person, not over the phone. If you have already had these types of conversations with her in the past in trying to help her (and you feel this time is no different) then just meeting her somewhere and talking. With no agenda at all. At least that.

[immamac 43121]

8 minutes ago, UTGrad98 said:

Agree with everyone here. Give it, dont lend it. Allow her to make the decision on whether or not she pays you back. If she gets her shit together, she will. If not, well it is what it is. In the end, it's your family. And you always help family. If it were me and my brother asked for $1500 in a situation like this, I would give it but on one condition. That he seriously sit down and talk to me about his life and ways to improve his situation. For me that would be in person, not over the phone. If you have already had these types of conversations with her in the past in trying to help her (and you feel this time is no different) then just meeting her somewhere and talking. With no agenda at all. At least that.

If you have 1500 laying around that you just don’t care if you get back also giving away a free counseling session with it. Damn bro you must be loaded and have all the time. Hahaha

[Guest]

I only loan money that I can afford to lose..

Have loaned money to very close friend/ coworker who was going through divorce and he paid it all back and took us out to eat when shit got right again.  I know the day he asked, that he felt terribad even to suggest it.  My reply was basically, "STFU dude, you're taking the money.  I know where to find you."

Youngest son had a loan that he could pay back, but the interest was stupid.  We paid it off and he paid us $500/month until closed out.  I was happy to save him the interest and he would have never asked us to do it, as it was our suggestion.  That was a nuanced difference from a lot of familial/ friendly loans.

[66BUFF 2565]

Look at it this way:

It costs you 20 dollars to get rid of him.

He's never going to bother you again.

He's never gonna ask you for money again.

He's out of your life for 20 dollars.

You got off cheap. Forget him.

[deadshank 24653]

1 hour ago, Hefeweizen said:

There are no loans in a family in my experience.  All that does is cause resentment when it isn’t repaid.  They’re asking for a loan because it doesn’t sound as bad as straight up gimme money.

 

 Your call, for some people it’s pocket change and for others it’s groceries for several months.  The main issue I have with it is if it becomes a recurring gift.  At that point you’ve acquired a new dependent.

EOT

[RPM 26356]

I had one of my sisters ask to borrow $40K to buy a piece of property next to theirs. She said they couldn't get a loan at the bank. I told her there was probably a good reason why.

[statsman 5483]

Do you want to have a continuing relationship with her? If you don’t, let it be a loan, not a gift. There is a good chance she will avoid you after. 
Want a relationship but worried that she will hit you up for more? Give her “the talk” about personal finances and responsibilities when she hits you up a Econ’s time. 
Are you married? If you are, discuss with your wife. It’s her money, too, and she also might have some ne’er do we’ll relatives. 
 

Families are funny. A few years ago, my dad told me, “Don’t answer the phone if your cousin Mark calls. He’s hitting people up for money.”😂

[ChickenSandwich 9853]

Give the money with intention to never see it again. Keep up the “loan” ruse so she will not ask for more (when she doesn’t pay back the first one). 

[torre 1286]

18 hours ago, 40acredropout said:

Tell me about your experience. 

My older sister (33, single mother, high school dropout, no pics) just texted me requesting a $1,500 loan.  Story is she has fallen behind after having to take a paycut at a new job.  She said she wouldn't have reached out if I wasn't her last resort.  We are not close and haven't spoken in months so no clue on background/validity of her story.

 

Be best to talk with her about her complete financial situation.    Is $1500 the answer or will it just complicate her financial situation.   It may be for high interest payments which is money wasted and will only grow.

A bill consolidation loan and budget review may be in order.   With children involved,  it is even more important.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13523]

Giving your sister $1500 most likely won’t provide much help. If $1500 for an adult is going to make or break them, the next financial crisis could be within weeks. With the cost of rent, cars, gas, food, etc. $1500 ain’t shit.

If her pay back offer is her tax refund, that tells you that at best she will be paycheck to paycheck for the next 6 months. There’s a decent chance that if you give her money, she will be back asking for more within a month or two. Be prepared for that one.

the one loan/gift exception I would make for a family member or friend is if they just had some bad luck. But in my experience the people asking for a handout usually have made a lifetime of poor financial decisions. They also never ask you for advice on how they can do better with money. They just want your money and for you to stfu about it.

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Nice Guy Eddie

[RPM 26356]

It could be cheap fun. You can always hold it over her head when she's being a bitch. Hey, remember that $1500 you owe me?

[Kennythetiger 9471]

Fucking tax returns. 

[Knoxtnhorn 6066]

I had an on-the-fence answer until I recalled the words "single mom".  If there are kids involved, then I'd bite the bullet regardless of the reasons you might have to not help out.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13523]

22 minutes ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

I had an on-the-fence answer until I recalled the words "single mom".  If there are kids involved, then I'd bite the bullet regardless of the reasons you might have to not help out.  

This isn’t an easy conversation but when you’re giving someone money you have a right to say how it’s spent. An adult doesn’t want to be told how to spend their money but then again  it’s not their money being spent here. If kids are involved, then housing, electricity, internet and food are priorities. You have the top cable package? That’s cancelled today. 

[gmr548 16617]

On 8/4/2022 at 9:25 PM, immamac said:

If you have 1500 you don’t give a shit about then just send it. If you get paid back awesome if not who cares. 
 

if you don’t have 1500 burning a hole in your pocket and have another amount that is. Do the same with that amount. 
 

if you don’t have any spare cash you would be comfortable just donking off just tell her no. 

This. Don't ever "loan" money to family/friends. It's a great way to poison the relationship.

If you've got the cash and want to give it, do so. Don't expect it back. If it comes back, great.

[StassneyHorn 6642]

If you have 1500 to spend, do it. You said you haven’t had a good/close relationship with her, but this could be an opportunity to become closer. Have that discussion over lunch/dinner, ask about the kids and the budget to identify any kind of quick spending to eliminate. Press her on if she has an Indeed account and needs any help looking for a better job option etc..

 

 

[tx 3 putt 77459]

if you can spare it, send her the money and kiss it good bye. then hope she gets back on her feet 

[Bevo&Pevo 5221]

The on the very few times I've loaned a little cash to family or friends IIRC the time I got burned was by family.  From my experience, it seems the family doesn't feel the same obligation that my friends did.  If children are involved I'd have a much better conscience when I put my head on my pillow at night if I gave her some jack.

[dcbc 14511]

This is how you do it. 

 

 

[40acredropout 2902]

Good advice here, thanks everyone.

We spoke and it felt less like I was her last resort in a dire situation, and more like she just didn't want to go back to her usual targets.  She mentioned a few bills and new school clothes for my nephew who is starting middle school.  I didn't really feel like interrogating or pushing beyond that.

I sent her $1k via Cashapp and told her not to worry about paying me back. 

I'm sure this thread will get bumped in future.  I'm in my late 20's and it's already abundantly clear that I will be supporting her and both of my parents.  I'm probably being an asshole but it pisses me off.  I do not have meaningful relationships with any of them and honestly it's not something I really desire at this point. 

I know I wasn't buying my own lunchables as a 2nd grader but I also had to be 100% financially independent before graduating high school and had to pave my own way when a little help (monetarily or more so guidance) would've made a big difference.   Tired of having to be the adult for them.  

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by 40acredropout

[Nice Guy Eddie 13523]

21 minutes ago, 40acredropout said:

Good advice here, thanks everyone.

We spoke and it felt less like I was her last resort in a dire situation, and more like she just didn't want to go back to her usual targets.  She mentioned a few bills and new school clothes for my nephew who is starting middle school.  I didn't really feel like interrogating or pushing beyond that.

I sent her $1k via Cashapp and told her not to worry about paying me back. 

I'm sure this thread will get bumped in future.  I'm in my late 20's and it's already abundantly clear that I will be supporting her and both of my parents.  I'm probably being an asshole but it pisses me off.  I do not have meaningful relationships with any of them and honestly it's not something I really desire at this point. 

I know I wasn't buying my own lunchables as a 2nd grader but I also was 100% financially independent before graduating high school and had to pave my own way when a little help (monetarily or more so guidance) would've made a big difference.   Tired of having to be the adult for them.  

 

I never understand adults who seemingly don't plan for expenses that they know will occur. Hey, my son needs new school clothes. Who could have predicted this? smh. When they ask family for money, they also don't seem to care if it harms the relationship. They just want the money.  (FYI, I'm 100% projecting my own experiences here.)

If your employer offers an employee assistance plan, you most likely can talk to a family therapist for free. The therapist can give you some ideas on how to approach your family and communicate what you want.

Finally, you don't have any moral obligation to financially support your parents and definitely not your sister. Children don't owe parents for buying their lunchables in the 2nd grade. Parents decided to have children so that responsibility was theirs. The child didn't ask to be born so the situation isn't reciprocated. Now if you refuse it may create some consequences but it's your choice. 

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, 40acredropout said:

I'm sure this thread will get bumped in future.  I'm in my late 20's and it's already abundantly clear that I will be supporting her and both of my parents.  I'm probably being an asshole but it pisses me off.  I do not have meaningful relationships with any of them and honestly it's not something I really desire at this point. 

So welcome to the club. I'm about 10 years ahead of you, but been on the same timeline regarding one parent. 

It's taken me a long time to get over it mentally and get past the resentment of it. I figure it took me 5-7 years before I had to help where I could still see what was coming. It stressed me whenever I saw what I considered bad financial decisions. Now I'm about 5-7 years into the actual helping phase. Parent has major health issues, no savings, can't drive, only income is SSI. Goes back and forth between me and my sibling. Can't really live alone due to health, and it would be considerably more expensive anyway.

I'm past the point where I have resentment toward the situation itself -- it just is what it is. But I still get frustrated at having a parent live in the same house; it's essentially having another kid to be honest. She can't really do much, so it's not like she can watch the kid that much, or cook or clean. 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Finally, you don't have any moral obligation to financially support your parents and definitely not your sister. Children don't owe parents for buying their lunchables in the 2nd grade. Parents decided to have children so that responsibility was theirs. The child didn't ask to be born so the situation isn't reciprocated. Now if you refuse it may create some consequences but it's your choice. 

MUCH easier said than done. When you're the backstop between a parent being on the streets or having a roof over their head, there ain't much choice.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13523]

3 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

MUCH easier said than done. When you're the backstop between a parent being on the streets or having a roof over their head, there ain't much choice.

I hear you.

I've spoken to some friends, co-workers, etc. that unexpectedly found themselves caring for elderly parents who did little planning for themselves.

The ideal picture is assisting the little old lady who was the perfect mom growing up. However I've heard a few people who do not have good memories of their childhood but feel an obligation to help, or more likely they feel guilt if they don't. It sucks.

Unfortunately deadbeats are frequently a drain on relatives while they're still younger and then they because a burden for their children as they age. My sister has never been able to fully take care of herself financially and I assume her young adult children understand that my sister's financial condition ain't improving as she nears retirement.

[statsman 5483]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 

The ideal picture is assisting the little old lady who was the perfect mom growing up. 

This is my MIL. 86 years old (no pics) and (along with her deceased husband) was committed to her children her whole life. They saved, but a couple of their children leached on them for years and here we are- we bought a house nearby for her to live in. The mortgage isn’t easy (my wife calls her the most expensive baby sitter ever), but is helped by knowing she would have done anything for us (and still would) had we needed it. 
 

Oh, well. Unless she lives past 100, the house will be good, inflation-proof retirement income some day. 

[Chewbacca 7787]

2 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

MUCH easier said than done. When you're the backstop between a parent being on the streets or having a roof over their head, there ain't much choice.

I feel this.  Gotta love parents who continually make bad financial decisions.

[horn4life 3783]

IF you have the money and she burns you, it will validate a lot of your misgivings and not destroy your finances. But do NOT expect to ever see this money again.  

The fact she is reaching out to you means you probably are truly a last resort.  And to be honest the $1500 probably will not save her, but you would probably give her that money if you knew she were truly going to be out in the streets.

If I had it I would likely do it.  Though I'll be honest, I want to speak to a person, not reply to a text.  I can gauge a lot more from a person's voice and demeanor in decision making.  I would likely ask her to give you a call and "let's see what we can do."  I would be more likely to ask about what are we actually covering here?  And is there any way this amount could actually keep her whole until February.  As $1500 isn't that big a pop for 6 months.  

[cabowabo 4514]

You loan or give it to her and she's gonna come back for more.  Tell her to fuck off.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8822]

I’m also in a pinch but only need 1k, therefore saving you 500.

Think about it

What was his amount request?

Drew Carey: $1,000


I’ll take $999, drew

[conVINCEd 21469]

Having been on the giving end and the receiving end of family generosity, don’t buy them a month.  That does nobody any good.  If they can’t pay the rent because of an unexpected expense, be it a blown transmission or a trip to the ER, help them.  If they’re just lazy and don’t have any plan to be self-sufficient you are better off letting them deal with that reality sooner rather than later.  
 

Kids complicate that, and that’s a tough call.

 

sincerely,

a former lazy, worthless person who figured some shit out when he no longer had any easy outs.

[statsman 5483]

20 hours ago, 40acredropout said:

 

I'm sure this thread will get bumped in future.  I'm in my late 20's and it's already abundantly clear that I will be supporting her and both of my parents.  I'm probably being an asshole but it pisses me off.  I do not have meaningful relationships with any of them and honestly it's not something I really desire at this point. 

It’s ok to be pissed off. This (their willingness to leach off you) is a big part of the reason you probably don’t have a meaningful relationship with them. I have a saying- “The formula for a happy family is for grownups to act like grownups and kids to act like kids. It’s when they get it the other way around that things get screwed up”. Kids need steady financial support and when grownups need it, the whole balance goes askew. How can a father be a mentor and counsel to a young adult when he needs to hit his child up for money to get by?

I wish I could tell you how to fix it. The money thing- no, you’re not obligated, but you already know that. You’re trying to hold out on a possibility of having a real relationship with your family, and assigning financial values to relationships is a very dangerous and cold step to take. On the other hand, they’re telling you, by asking for money, just what they value the relationship at, since they’re willing to jeapordize it to have enough cash this month. It sucks. 
 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13523]

I've never personally asked a family serial borrower explain their rationale but I caught a personal finance make-over show where the host counsels a family for a few months. Called ‘Til debt do us part.

On this one episode the host had the background info that a married couple owed 10s of thousands to family.  She asked the husband to inventory all their debts and the monthly expenses. He didn’t include any of the family debt or the agreed monthly payments.

The host asked why he didn’t include those amounts, and he said that family debt was not real debt. Not to mention that if he adhered to the agreed payback schedule, he couldn’t afford the rest of his lifestyle.

Ultimately it came down to a confession that he had no plan to pay the family members back. 

[Bevo 13601]

On 8/4/2022 at 9:20 PM, 40acredropout said:

Tell me about your experience. 

My older sister (33, single mother, high school dropout, no pics) just texted me requesting a $1,500 loan.  Story is she has fallen behind after having to take a paycut at a new job.  She said she wouldn't have reached out if I wasn't her last resort.  We are not close and haven't spoken in months so no clue on background/validity of her story.

This isn't a surprise.  She's made a lot of bad decisions and has been bailed out financially and otherwise many times (that I know of) by my mom and an aunt (also no pics of either; not that you would want them).  I thought she had finally gotten her shit together (relatively speaking) but now I don't know.

She proposed to pay me back with her tax return in February...so yeah, repayment is very unlikely.  The amount isn't an issue.  And despite our relationship being non-existent for the better part of two decades, I would want to help her if she's truly in a pinch.  I just worry about precedent and if it's really the best thing to do for her.

Thanks for listening and I welcome the Surly wisdom. 

Sounds like she dropped out a little before you. If money isn't an issue then I would consider it. But, do it with the internal expectation that it is a gift. If you expect to get money back, it will only create animosity. As far as precedent, you will have to figure that out on your own. I am not close enough to the situation to know if she will be calling you daily asking for money, etc.

[40acredropout 2902]

3 hours ago, statsman said:

“The formula for a happy family is for grownups to act like grownups and kids to act like kids. It’s when they get it the other way around that things get screwed up”.

I like this.  It seems obvious on surface but roles are often reversed in more subtle ways and it is impactful on an impressionable kid. 

I don't have children but when I do, I suppose the silver lining of my experience is that I know a lot of ways not to parent.

[40acredropout 2902]

13 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Sounds like she dropped out a little before you. 

Ha so much for setting an example right?  I finished... just not where I wanted to.

[RPM 26356]

On 8/5/2022 at 1:41 PM, statsman said:

Families are funny. A few years ago, my dad told me, “Don’t answer the phone if your cousin Mark calls. He’s hitting people up for money.”😂

Life before Caller ID

[Chewbacca 7787]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I've never personally asked a family serial borrower explain their rationale but I caught a personal finance make-over show where the host counsels a family for a few months. Called ‘Til debt do us part.

On this one episode the host had the background info that a married couple owed 10s of thousands to family.  She asked the husband to inventory all their debts and the monthly expenses. He didn’t include any of the family debt or the agreed monthly payments.

The host asked why he didn’t include those amounts, and he said that family debt was not real debt. Not to mention that if he adhered to the agreed payback schedule, he couldn’t afford the rest of his lifestyle.

Ultimately it came down to a confession that he had no plan to pay the family members back. 

Yep.  My dad is the same way.  Back in the early 90s he borrowed $50k from his best friend to start his business (worth roughly $110k today).  He never paid that back and that friend no longer speaks to him.  He's borrowed/leached/conned money from countless others over the years.  None of it ever paid back.  And none will ever be paid back because he's broke as fuck and terrible with money.  Some people just suck.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13523]

2 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Yep.  My dad is the same way.  Back in the early 90s he borrowed $50k from his best friend to start his business (worth roughly $110k today).  He never paid that back and that friend no longer speaks to him.  He's borrowed/leached/conned money from countless others over the years.  None of it ever paid back.  And none will ever be paid back because he's broke as fuck and terrible with money.  Some people just suck.

My mom did this to a relative. Borrowed 10K probably in the same timeframe. The relative is well-off and my mom justified the non-payback because that person didn't really need the money. I also heard an excuse that the relative didn't want it back. No idea if that was true or not. I doubt it.

Even if someone doesn't want you to pay them back, a decent borrower would ask that loaner for their favorite charity and send the amount to the charity. Of course I don't see bad debtors actively giving large charity donations.