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2022 National Rankings (AP, Coaches, CFP) Meta Thread

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Doc Daneeka

Doc Daneeka 6769

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19 minutes ago, mdmost said:

For anyone like me who sat in Texas Stadium in early December 2001, Chris Simms would be the last person I'd want to speak on the difficulty level of winning the Big 12. 

I was there. 
 

I was also in Lincoln when they pulled his dislocated finger back into place, while he was standing on the sideline, so he could stay in the game. A win, despite the D not doing much that was impressive until the interception at the end. 
 

He’s wrong about the Big 12, though. 

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Well, that’s not the AP poll, so …

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For anyone like me who sat in Texas Stadium in early December 2001, Chris Simms would be the last person I'd want to speak on the difficulty level of winning the Big 12. 

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Paul Wesley

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2 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Remember when SEC guys used to brag about how they play real football and the big 12 is all offense and no defense? And then they started using the coaching and offensive schemes that we were using? I remember. Alabama-Tenn was a complete shootout this year lmao. But SEC SEC defense really matters!!!!

In the era that Big 12 quarterbacks were McCoy and Bradford and Graham Harrell, we got so used to seeing passes hit receivers right on the money... it was kind of weird to put the TV on a mid-tier SEC matchup and see those QB's consistently throwing at the running back's ankles on a screen pass, or sailing balls way over the WR's heads... and then seeing their fans beat their chests about DEFENSE when the game ended 13-6.

That region of the country put out tons of NFL-caliber athletes, but those offensive schemes/execution were a decade behind.

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David Dennison

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3 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

I was there. 
 

I was also in Lincoln when they pulled his dislocated finger back into place, while he was standing on the sideline, so he could stay in the game. A win, despite the D not doing much that was impressive until the interception at the end. 
 

He’s wrong about the Big 12, though. 

Maybe, but the Big 12 is the only P5 conference that hasn't had a team make to the CFP final.

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David Dennison

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1 minute ago, Hook1997 said:

Have you not watched bowl games the last 6 years or so?  Big 12 usually wins more then they lose in sec matchups for the mid to lower tier teams. 

Cool. That doesn't change the fact that the Big 12 hasn't produced a national champion in 17 years.

For perspective, the conference we're moving to has produced 12 since then.

 

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Paul Wesley

Paul Wesley 3282

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On 11/30/2022 at 8:41 AM, Pam Cummings said:

It's crazy to me that teams like TCU and USC get no benefit at all from playing in their conference championship game. They risk losing/injury and getting kicked out of the convo while teams like Ohio St and Alabama get to sit at home and do nothing and benefit. 

Agreed.  It's even crazier that the Big 12 champion plays a round-robin regular season and then the second-place finisher gets an automatic do-over.  

Conference championship games are dicey things even in a divisional format.  Tons of great teams get knocked out of BCS games, MNC games, and playoffs (from Nebraska 96 to USC yesterday).  But playing a round-robin and THEN making the winner play another one... it makes no sense.

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Hook1997

Hook1997 5393

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12 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Cool. That doesn't change the fact that the Big 12 hasn't produced a national champion in 17 years.

For perspective, the conference we're moving to has produced 12 since then.

 

His quote was the middle tier sec would win the big 12….  My point being that’s not close to true, sec is very top heavy and has been for a while.  

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Doc Daneeka

Doc Daneeka 6769

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15 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Cool. That doesn't change the fact that the Big 12 hasn't produced a national champion in 17 years.

For perspective, the conference we're moving to has produced 12 since then.

 

Completely different issue from whether mid-tier teams in a top-heavy conference would win the Big 12, right?

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2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

We also don't know that it's not true.

We also don't know that the 3rd place team in the Big 10 and Pac 12 wouldn't win the SEC.

Its also just about as likely to be true as Arkansas, Miss. St., Kentucky and South Carolina winning the Big 12.

20 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

Mack Brown returns to Holiday Bowl vs. Oregon.  

Notre Dame vs. South Carolina in the Lou Holtz Bowl. 

 

 

The Sark-Alamo Bowl with UT and UW.

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3 hours ago, Paul Wesley said:

Feels strange to have to point this out... but the 5th winningest QB in UT history was not a "waste of talent" by any metric.

Relative to what he was coming out of HS, absolutely he is. He had a decent career, and my issues with those teams are directed mainly at Greg Davis. But I have two issues with him. One is the Big 12 CCG in ‘01, which outside of ‘05 and possibly ‘08, was our most talented team under Mack, who had tremendously talented teams that decade as we all know. He was miserable that game and single-handedly cost us big time. OU ‘01 and Roy Williams Superman game was on Mack and GDGD. The BIG 12 game a national title shot was on Simms. Second was this idiotic comment. 

Simms is an astute commentator on pro football and I like him. But he was an underachiever here, inefficient with his talent, and I wish he’d shut the fuck up about playing in the Big 12 and making comments out of his ass. He seems to go great lengths to distance himself from Texas and that irks me, but I kinda get it because he wasn’t treated the best here. 

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Paul Wesley

Paul Wesley 3282

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You’re just wrong.  
 

He was 26-6 as a starter.  One of those losses was at A&M when he was pulled while Texas had the lead. There was 1 - maybe 2 - games in 4 years where you could say Texas lost primarily because Simms played like shit.  The Colorado game was one, I agree.  Every QB has a game or two like that.  Applewhite had a 5- or 6- turnover game vs KSU in a top-10 matchup at home that might have pushed us out of the CCG. 
 

Ewers has had arguably more WTF nightmare-game losses (OSU, TCU) in 9 starts this year than Simms had in a 4-year career, and they both came to UT as the top-ranked QB in their class.  Ewers’ play at OSU this year likely cost us a shot in the championship game (he’s not a “bust” either).
 

You can say that you’ll never forgive Simms for the 2001 CCG, or that you were always a Applewhite guy, and that’s all fine.  But Simms was not “absolutely” a bust by any fucking metric whatsoever.  You’re just wrong.  

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Blotto

Blotto 23560

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Posted
1 hour ago, Porterhouse said:

Simms is an astute commentator on pro football and I like him

Anybody that goes through life buttoning the top button on every shirt (voluntarily) can't be trusted. I appreciate his contributions while on the 40 acres, but he needs to be put down. 

image.png.704eb9269df3c5702e16c23795338284.png

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2 hours ago, Paul Wesley said:

You’re just wrong.  
 

He was 26-6 as a starter.  One of those losses was at A&M when he was pulled while Texas had the lead. There was 1 - maybe 2 - games in 4 years where you could say Texas lost primarily because Simms played like shit.  The Colorado game was one, I agree.  Every QB has a game or two like that.  Applewhite had a 5- or 6- turnover game vs KSU in a top-10 matchup at home that might have pushed us out of the CCG. 
 

Ewers has had arguably more WTF nightmare-game losses (OSU, TCU) in 9 starts this year than Simms had in a 4-year career, and they both came to UT as the top-ranked QB in their class.  Ewers’ play at OSU this year likely cost us a shot in the championship game (he’s not a “bust” either).
 

You can say that you’ll never forgive Simms for the 2001 CCG, or that you were always a Applewhite guy, and that’s all fine.  But Simms was not “absolutely” a bust by any fucking metric whatsoever.  You’re just wrong.  

I’m not wrong. 26-6 is a distant 3rd in winning percentage of the golden era of Mack. Behind a guy who was significantly “lesser” of a player than Chris. To view his tenure here as anything other than a disappointment is forgiving. He wasn’t a bust. That was hyperbole on my part. 

And lol on the Ewers comparison. Ewers had no Applewhite to ensure he wouldn’t be the full time starter until Ewers is 21 like Chris did. Ewers is exactly a true freshman and played like it down the stretch this year. I suspect he will be a far better player in college and pro and higher draft pick than Simms. 

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mdleast

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SIAP but was looking at the final rankings in terms of the top 12 given the coming expanded playoffs. I was somewhat surprised to note that it is more spread out among the confernces that what I would assume (and, without bothering to look it up, what I’m guessing has been the case in years past). Here’s the breakdown:

Big 10 -3
SEC - 3
Pac 12 - 3
Big 12 - 2
ACC - 1

Seems like less SEC and more Pac 12 than I would figure. Makes sense in terms of the thought that the SEC overall is down this year. However also seems to show the Pac 12 is more up than I think most give them credit for. Thinking Big 12 is down slightly from what they might normally have(?) …maybe not. ACC is exactly what I figure they always are (just Clemson).

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7 hours ago, David Dennison said:

I believe his point was the Big 12 sucks.

That's been the feeling on this website for quite some time. 

He literally said a middle tier team could win the Big 12. USC, UK, Fla, MSU, UM, Arky - none are finishing with a better record in the Big 12 than in the SEC. It was a retarded comment. 

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Valmy77

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11 hours ago, Doc Daneeka said:

I was there. 
 

I was also in Lincoln when they pulled his dislocated finger back into place, while he was standing on the sideline, so he could stay in the game. A win, despite the D not doing much that was impressive until the interception at the end. 
 

He’s wrong about the Big 12, though. 

I have never seen a man die on the inside like Frank Solich as he saw that interception. Poor guy.

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3 hours ago, mdleast said:

SIAP but was looking at the final rankings in terms of the top 12 given the coming expanded playoffs. I was somewhat surprised to note that it is more spread out among the confernces that what I would assume (and, without bothering to look it up, what I’m guessing has been the case in years past). Here’s the breakdown:

Big 10 -3
SEC - 3
Pac 12 - 3
Big 12 - 2
ACC - 1

Seems like less SEC and more Pac 12 than I would figure. Makes sense in terms of the thought that the SEC overall is down this year. However also seems to show the Pac 12 is more up than I think most give them credit for. Thinking Big 12 is down slightly from what they might normally have(?) …maybe not. ACC is exactly what I figure they always are (just Clemson).

Pac 12 overrated.  The bottom 5 of the Pac 12 are horrible and the top 6 missed each other on the schedule a lot and so didn't give each other losses.  USC and UCLA both played all the bottom 5.

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mdleast

mdleast 8295

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Pac 12 overrated.  The bottom 5 of the Pac 12 are horrible and the top 6 missed each other on the schedule a lot and so didn't give each other losses.  USC and UCLA both played all the bottom 5.

But couldn’t you say the bottom 5 of every if not most conferences are horrible? We tend to judge the “strength” of each confernce based on how the “top” (12 or whatever the metric is) are doing.
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Paul Wesley

Paul Wesley 3282

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3 hours ago, Porterhouse said:

I’m not wrong. 26-6 is a distant 3rd in winning percentage of the golden era of Mack. Behind a guy who was significantly “lesser” of a player than Chris. To view his tenure here as anything other than a disappointment is forgiving. He wasn’t a bust. That was hyperbole on my part. 

And lol on the Ewers comparison. Ewers had no Applewhite to ensure he wouldn’t be the full time starter until Ewers is 21 like Chris did. Ewers is exactly a true freshman and played like it down the stretch this year. I suspect he will be a far better player in college and pro and higher draft pick than Simms. 

I agree with your earlier post that Greg Davis wasted a shit ton of talent here.  We had NFL-caliber wideouts (Roy, BJ) who collectively had 0 touchdowns in their entire careers vs OU, and an NFL-caliber running back who the Sooners just embarrassed... Benson could hardly get back to the line of scrimmage.  Ditto for our offensive line full of five-star recruits who went years without scoring a meaningful touchdown in Dallas.

It just bothers me that Texas fans continue to shit on Simms --  "disappointment" or a "waste of talent" -- when those labels never seem to get applied to the other 10 guys on offense.

Anyway, if you subtract out the Aggie game where Simms was pulled with the lead (and we lost) and also the Holiday Bowl vs Washington where he was pulled when we were behind (and we won), Simms was 25-5 across 4 seasons.  I mean, we can literally count his career losses on one hand.  Two were to OU (hard to put that shitshow on his shoulders) and one was to Oregon where Simms threw four really nice balls into the end zone as the game ended -- any of which would have tied the game.  Two were flat-out dropped (BJ and Roy).  

And I'm not sure why you "lol at the Ewers comparison."  That comparison was only brought up because you said Simms was a disappointment "based on his ranking."  As the top-rated QB in the nation, we can compare Simms' numbers to Vince Young and to Ewers and that's pretty much it.  

I hope you're right that Ewers will be a far better college QB than Simms, because to do so, he'd have to be one of the best QB in all of college football over the next two seasons. 

Oh, I also agree that Simms is way fucking wrong about the SEC vs Big 12 this year.  

We just have different ideas of whether five career losses = "disappointment."

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Trojan Man

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Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, mdleast said:

SIAP but was looking at the final rankings in terms of the top 12 given the coming expanded playoffs. I was somewhat surprised to note that it is more spread out among the confernces that what I would assume (and, without bothering to look it up, what I’m guessing has been the case in years past). Here’s the breakdown:

Big 10 -3
SEC - 3
Pac 12 - 3
Big 12 - 2
ACC - 1

Seems like less SEC and more Pac 12 than I would figure. Makes sense in terms of the thought that the SEC overall is down this year. However also seems to show the Pac 12 is more up than I think most give them credit for. Thinking Big 12 is down slightly from what they might normally have(?) …maybe not. ACC is exactly what I figure they always are (just Clemson).

The main reason the Pac 12 is having a good year is because the ranked teams mostly took care of business against the unranked teams.  There weren't many big upsets in conference play, a rarity in the Pac 12.  Arizona over UCLA and Arizona State over Washington were the only losses ranked Pac 12 teams suffered against unranked Pac 12 teams.  When your ranked teams are only losing to each other for the most part it results in higher rankings and a better perception of the conference.  But in hindsight that ASU loss was pretty costly, both to Washington and the conference as a whole.  Had Washington beat 3-9 ASU the CCG would have been a CFP play in game between 11-1 USC and 11-1 Washington.  The crabs in the Pac 12 bucket didn't pinch as much this year as they usually do but that's still a pretty big pinch from them.

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NeverMarryAStripper

NeverMarryAStripper 21907

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14 hours ago, Doc Daneeka said:

I was there. 
 

I was also in Lincoln when they pulled his dislocated finger back into place, while he was standing on the sideline, so he could stay in the game. A win, despite the D not doing much that was impressive until the interception at the end. 
 

He’s wrong about the Big 12, though. 

This time they need to pull his dislocated vagina back into place

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RC Horn

RC Horn 138

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Posted (edited)

It seems like some of posters out there want us to stay in the Big XII and not go to the SEC. I am not one of them. The SEC will finally force UT to play mentally tough in all sports and that will be good thing.  Another thing, I agree with Chris Simms, :)

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statsman

statsman 5472

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TCU win the Big XII regular season this year. TCU has a Sagarin “Predictor” of 86. That is good-not-very-good. They had a very serendipitous season- the kind you can have when the schedule timing and game locations are favorable, and nobody good draws a target on your back. 
 
KSU won the CG. It is a three loss team. 
 
There are no great teams in the B12 this year. A decent team from any conference could win it

 

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Doc Daneeka

Doc Daneeka 6769

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7 minutes ago, statsman said:

TCU win the Big XII regular season this year. TCU has a Sagarin “Predictor” of 86. That is good-not-very-good. They had a very serendipitous season- the kind you can have when the schedule timing and game locations are favorable, and nobody good draws a target on your back. 
 
KSU won the CG. It is a three loss team. 
 
There are no great teams in the B12 this year. A decent team from any conference could win it

 

Using the Sagarin predictor, which mid-level SEC team would be most likely win the regular season or title game in the Big 12? What would be the odds, I wonder. 

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12 hours ago, mdleast said:


But couldn’t you say the bottom 5 of every if not most conferences are horrible? We tend to judge the “strength” of each confernce based on how the “top” (12 or whatever the metric is) are doing.

No.  The bottom 5 of the Big 12 and SEC were pretty tough.  In Massey, Vandy is 71, one behind Arizona and ahead of 4 other Pac schools.  Iowa St. is 65, ahead of all the Pac's bottom 5.

But yes, a lot of people judge conferences by the top, not the average.  The Pac has improved.  They were 10-25 out of conference in 20 and 21 vs. FBS.  Last year their ooc win % was worse than the MAC's and ahead only of CUSA.

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43 minutes ago, statsman said:

TCU win the Big XII regular season this year. TCU has a Sagarin “Predictor” of 86. That is good-not-very-good. They had a very serendipitous season- the kind you can have when the schedule timing and game locations are favorable, and nobody good draws a target on your back. 
 
KSU won the CG. It is a three loss team. 
 
There are no great teams in the B12 this year. A decent team from any conference could win it

 

The Massey composite has TCU 4 and KSU 7.  The CFP has them 3 and 9.  So basically, nobody who knows anything agrees with you.  Yes, Chris Simms agrees with you, but....

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