LBGTQ

[Willfully Horn 7910]

13 hours ago, Anastasis said:

LOL.  My quest is for honest people to dig into the data.  I am sorry that you cannot be counted among that measure. That study has numerous limitations. Maybe other posters will be capable of considering them after reading the actual report.

Blue line is F->M, orange line is M->F. But I am not sure that we can actually make any firm conclusions from these data. Regretfully, there is apparently no control for antidepressant or psychotropic use, which seems like a major limitation when examining psychosocial outcomes such as BDI scores. And wrt to controls, no attempt to formulate a control group comparison generally.  Frankly, kinda amazing that this got published in NEJM.  

Why would you be sorry that digging into data on this type of research isn’t among my skill sets? Or, were you projecting about dishonesty?
 
Weren’t your questions mentioned by the Dutch researchers in the link I posted?  Can’t you think of any other reason M->F youths have for not seeing gender conformity in their bodies? And, a control group? Don’t you claim to be a medical ethicist?
 

Let’s be grateful F->M youth are experiencing more positive mental health. That’s a good thing. But you should share your concerns with the NEJM. I’m sure they’d appreciate the feedback.

[lemonlime 5503]

That asshole.  I refuse to listen to his voice, so hopefully this is an accurate summary of the "speech" he posted on his hell site yesterday.

Quote

Trump said he would push Congress to pass a law banning gender-affirming care for minors nationwide, order the Justice Department to investigate the pharmaceutical industry and hospitals to see whether they “deliberately covered up horrific long-term side effects of sex transitions in order to get rich” and cut off doctors from Medicare and Medicaid — a potential career-ender for many doctors — if they treat trans youths with hormones or surgery.

In addition, he said he would make it easier for patients who later regret having received gender-affirming care as minors to sue their doctors, calling the procedures “unforgivable.”

Trump also said his policy changes would extend to education.

He has already vowed to create a “new credentialing body for teachers” regarding the teaching of race history, adding that the panel would “promote positive education about the nuclear family, the roles of mothers and fathers and celebrating, rather than erasing, the things that make men and women different.”

He said his Education Department would impose “severe consequences” on any teachers or school officials who “suggest to a child that they could be trapped in the wrong body,” which could include civil rights penalties for the individuals and a loss of federal funding for schools.

“The left-wing gender insanity being pushed at our children is an act of child abuse. Very simple. Here’s my plan to stop the chemical, physical and emotional mutilation of our youth,” Trump said.

 

[Willfully Horn 7910]

38 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

That asshole.  I refuse to listen to his voice, so hopefully this is an accurate summary of the "speech" he posted on his hell site yesterday.

 

My thoughts on the transgendered community stem from the principle of loving others as I love myself, meaning, to me, that another’s self truth is as valid as my own self truth, as well as knowing these folks are the most at risk demographic in our society. I personally know few folks who are transgendered, so I have to look for information to learn more.

TIL that those who have transitioned surgically regret doing so at a extremely low rate.

”A total of 27 studies, pooling 7928 transgender patients who underwent any type of GAS, were included. The pooled prevalence of regret after GAS was 1% (95% CI <1%–2%). Overall, 33% underwent transmasculine procedures and 67% transfemenine procedures. The prevalence of regret among patients undergoing transmasculine and transfemenine surgeries was <1% (IC <1%–<1%) and 1% (CI <1%–2%), respectively. A total of 77 patients regretted having had GAS. Twenty-eight had minor and 34 had major regret based on Pfäfflin’s regret classification. The majority had clear regretbased on Kuiper and Cohen-Kettenis classification.”

Of those who regret their decision, their reasons given mirror the societal pressures that seem to me to be why these folks are the most at risk among us.

”The most common reasons cited were pressure from a parent (36%), transitioning was too hard (33%), too much harassment or discrimination (31%), and trouble getting a job (29%).”

 

https://journals.lww.com/prsgo/fulltext/2021/03000/regret_after_gender_affirmation_surgery__a.22.aspx

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/107/10/e4261/6604653

 

tl/dr Fuck the haters and the extremists.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Willfully Horn
Claro

[DalTxHornFan 3074]

20 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

My thoughts on the transgendered community stem from the principle of loving others as I love myself, meaning, to me, that another’s self truth is as valid as my own self truth, as well as knowing these folks are the most at risk demographic in our society. I personally know few folks who are transgendered, so I have to look for information to learn more.

TIL that those who have transitioned surgically regret doing so at a extremely low rate.

”A total of 27 studies, pooling 7928 transgender patients who underwent any type of GAS, were included. The pooled prevalence of regret after GAS was 1% (95% CI <1%–2%). Overall, 33% underwent transmasculine procedures and 67% transfemenine procedures. The prevalence of regret among patients undergoing transmasculine and transfemenine surgeries was <1% (IC <1%–<1%) and 1% (CI <1%–2%), respectively. A total of 77 patients regretted having had GAS. Twenty-eight had minor and 34 had major regret based on Pfäfflin’s regret classification. The majority had clear regretbased on Kuiper and Cohen-Kettenis classification.”

Of those who regret their decision, their reasons given mirror the societal pressures that seem to me to be why these folks are the most at risk among us.

”The most common reasons cited were pressure from a parent (36%), transitioning was too hard (33%), too much harassment or discrimination (31%), and trouble getting a job (29%).”

 

https://journals.lww.com/prsgo/fulltext/2021/03000/regret_after_gender_affirmation_surgery__a.22.aspx

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/107/10/e4261/6604653

 

tl/dr Fuck the haters and the extremists.

Very cool.

But I'm also sure that it took a while for the adverse lobotomy claims to show up, too.  But they will. 

This "transgender movement" is all nonsense wrapped up in a social media trend. 

[hookemATL 11558]

18 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

This "transgender movement" is all nonsense wrapped up in a social media trend. 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Very cool.
But I'm also sure that it took a while for the adverse lobotomy claims to show up, too.  But they will. 
This "transgender movement" is all nonsense wrapped up in a social media trend. 

Can you expand on that last sentence? I have had a real short fuse lately and want to make sure I’m not misunderstanding your statement.

[DalTxHornFan 3074]

Weird, huh?

Diagnoses of youths with gender dysphoria surge

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

That’s one way to have a thoughtful discussion and sharing of ideas.

[Willfully Horn 7910]

31 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

But I'm also sure that it took a while for the adverse lobotomy claims to show up, too.

Gender affirming surgery has been taking place for almost two generations (57 years.) 

1 minute ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Weird, huh?

Diagnoses of youths with gender dysphoria surge

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/

Did you miss the part about the trans community being the most at risk demographic in our society?

”Gender-affirming surgeries were associated with a 42% reduction in psychological distress and a 44% reduction in suicidal ideation when compared with transgender and gender-diverse people who had not had gender-affirming surgery but wanted it, according to the findings. The study also found a 35% reduction in tobacco smoking among people who had gender-affirming surgeries.”

Sorry about your lobotomy. It explains a lot.

 

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/

[DalTxHornFan 3074]

2 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

That’s one way to have a thoughtful discussion and sharing of ideas.

Thanks.  I have no brief with adults choosing to live their lives however they want to.  It's the kids getting caught up in "gender affirming care" that bothers me.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Thanks.  I have no brief with adults choosing to live their lives however they want to.  It's the kids getting caught up in "gender affirming care" that bothers me.

What do you suggest they do? Wait until they are 18? I suppose suicide is a decent solution.

[safe sex 11621]

Transitioning saves trans youths' lives. No surgeries are performed prior to being a legal adult. The hoops trans people have to jump through even for access to simple generic hormones are enormous. 

You should be more concerned about the child rape epidemic within the American evangelical movement.

[hornmpa96 2596]

1 minute ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Thanks.  I have no brief with adults choosing to live their lives however they want to.  It's the kids getting caught up in "gender affirming care" that bothers me.

Why do you believe that you and/or politicians should have any say in this matter?

Personally, this should be a discussion between a child, parents and doctors only.

[DalTxHornFan 3074]

Lobotomies were celebrated as a huge medical breakthrough in the 40's and 50's.  Then reality set in.

I predict the same fate for much of "gender affirming care" once these kids grow up.

[hookemATL 11558]

 

gotta hate somebody and trans folks are  tres chic to deride and impugn atm. 

[bolverk 29177]

1 hour ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Lobotomies were celebrated as a huge medical breakthrough in the 40's and 50's.  Then reality set in.

I predict the same fate for much of "gender affirming care" once these kids grow up.

You should educate yourself before spouting off.

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/08/11/texas-dfps-transgender-children-health-care/

Evidence-based standards of care adopted by medical professionals and associations, especially concerning transgender health care, do not include providing genital surgery for minors and specify that it should be a consideration only if someone is of legal age.

*****

“I think that it's important to address that current best practice, health care approach for transgender children is a social transition which requires no medical intervention,” Martinez said. “I think that the letters that have been exchanged between Governor Abbott and the state agency are really not taking that into account. For older adolescents and teens the prevailing standards of care best practices and guidelines, look nothing like the contents of those letters.”

[safe sex 11621]

I think Martinez misspeaks a little bit. A social transition doesn't require medical transition, sure, but it's helped an awful lot by it. For minors, the only care that should be off-limits is gender-affirming surgery. However, blocking the onset of puberty is essential for trans children, especially trans girls, as the effects of testosterone are far more damaging (typically) in terms of gender dysphoria than the pubertal changes caused by estrogen. Puberty blockers give the child time to "figure it out," which conservatives are always accusing children of doing (that is, making it all up). No one is harmed by going through puberty a little bit later than they "should" have. But going through puberty when you know you are trans is torture and major cause of trans children killing themselves.

 

[Anastasis 23274]

8 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

Let’s be grateful F->M youth are experiencing more positive mental health. That’s a good thing.

This begs the question. You don’t necessarily need random assignment and a placebo control. Of course that would be gold standard. But other reference controls could  provide context. That NEJM article that you didn’t read doesn’t really demonstrate anything in terms of rigorous evidence. Open label uncontrolled and unblinded. Numerous points for introduction of research bias. It’s amazing that a journal with fairly high standards as far as clinical data goes would bow to ideology over methodology. But here we are. We’re talking about given meds that in other setting are considered chemical castration, and others that involve exogenous hormone supplementation. Without compelling evidence that meets medical standards. This is crazy stuff. But it gets glossed over because some people love confirmation bias and in this case ideology trumps fundamentals of evidence based medicine. 

[Willfully Horn 7910]

The bedrock threshold for receiving GA medical care is “consistent, persistent, and insistent.” I don’t get how a parent could experience this behavior in their child and not cease worrying their child might be mistaken and start worrying about how to do whatever is possible to affirm their kid’s self identity.

It makes more sense that folks like @DalTxHornFan are “bothered” about other people’s children. 

[DalTxHornFan 3074]

6 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

The bedrock threshold for receiving GA medical care is “consistent, persistent, and insistent.” I don’t get how a parent could experience this behavior in their child and not cease worrying their child might be mistaken and start worrying about how to do whatever is possible to affirm their kid’s self identity.

It makes more sense that folks like @DalTxHornFan are “bothered” about other people’s children. 

Thanks for the mention, but I am both a dad and a grandfather.  My wife's grandmother took my MIL to the doctor when she was around 10-11 and wondered if something was wrong with her.  She told the Doc that MIL didn't want to wear dresses, climbed trees, played baseball, and slugged it out with boys that harassed her younger brother.

Doc told her to give it a couple of years and errything would work out fine.  It did.  She was a sexy mother of four.

I'm thinking that she might have been a candidate for hormones and top surgery if presented to a physician today.

[TwiceHorn 30965]

On 12/14/2022 at 9:56 AM, Captainant said:

Ken Paxton is starting a build a list of trans people based on who changed their driver's license gender

There's more in the article, but suffice to say - it would seem our top cop in the state is working on figuring out a solution to his "trans problem".

 

Really weird how it also coincides with the shift in the far right street fighters to target LGBTQ folks with violence.... 

That Ian guy is highly sus.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Thanks for the mention, but I am both a dad and a grandfather.  My wife's grandmother took my MIL to the doctor when she was around 10-11 and wondered if something was wrong with her.  She told the Doc that MIL didn't want to wear dresses, climbed trees, played baseball, and slugged it out with boys that harassed her younger brother.
Doc told her to give it a couple of years and errything would work out fine.  It did.  She was a sexy mother of four.
I'm thinking that she might have been a candidate for hormones and top surgery if presented to a physician today.

Please tell me you aren’t serious.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 18978]

34 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Please tell me you aren’t serious.

He is.  He's an idiot.

[DalTxHornFan 3074]

35 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

He is.  He's an idiot.

You say it so nicely.  Thank you.

[tchookem 3899]

Thanks for the mention, but I am both a dad and a grandfather.  My wife's grandmother took my MIL to the doctor when she was around 10-11 and wondered if something was wrong with her.  She told the Doc that MIL didn't want to wear dresses, climbed trees, played baseball, and slugged it out with boys that harassed her younger brother.
Doc told her to give it a couple of years and errything would work out fine.  It did.  She was a sexy mother of four.
I'm thinking that she might have been a candidate for hormones and top surgery if presented to a physician today.

Yep, that's the metric... tree climbing. Which journal are you publishing this in?

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Appears the list of posters that can’t have a discussion in good faith continues to grow. I don’t even know how to respond to it. I mean, I could try like I am explaining something g to my 5 year old but it appears to be pointless.

[DalTxHornFan 3074]

1 minute ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Appears the list of posters that can’t have a discussion in good faith continues to grow. I don’t even know how to respond to it. I mean, I could try like I am explaining something g to my 5 year old but it appears to be pointless.

Cool.  Where is this failure to "have a discussion in good faith?"  I responded to a "research study" posted up thread.  Happy to discuss.    

[fattyflattie 4636]

3 hours ago, safe sex said:

No one is harmed by going through puberty a little bit later than they "should" have. But going through puberty when you know you are trans is torture and major cause of trans children killing themselves.

This was my curiosity.  I don’t know shit about shit wrt trans stuff and defer to you, troph, and a few others on it all. But I was always curious what “puberty blockers” actually look like if you pushed them to say, mid-late teens.  If there is no medical issues that comes from it later, seems like a no brainer.  

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Cool.  Where is this failure to "have a discussion in good faith?"  I responded to a "research study" posted up thread.  Happy to discuss.    

I’ll likely regret this.

Do you really think that your wife’s grandmother taking your MIL to the doctor and telling him that she is acting like a tomboy would in today’s world result in giving her hormone treatment? You truly believe that is what is happening now? Parents are taking their kids to their GP and describing their kids climbing trees and getting fist fights and the doctor throws up their hands and prescribing hormones?

So are you trolling or not?

[DalTxHornFan 3074]

Just now, Patricio Swayze said:

I’ll likely regret this.

Do you really think that your wife’s grandmother taking your MIL to the doctor and telling him that she is acting like a tomboy would in today’s world result in giving her hormone treatment? You truly believe that is what is happening now? Parents are taking their kids to their GP and describing their kids climbing trees and getting fist fights and the doctor throws up their hands and prescribing hormones?

So are you trolling or not?

IDK how her particular situation would have been dealt with.  The exponential increase in gender dysphoria diagnoses in the past 20 years or so does give me pause.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

IDK how her particular situation would have been dealt with.  The exponential increase in gender dysphoria diagnoses in the past 20 years or so does give me pause.

And you honestly feel that is because of some malicious reason? Not because more research and acceptance has been done? Do you think awareness = brainwashing?

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2650]

It's much better if trans people stay confused, closeted, and stigmatized until late in life or forever, so they have to try to be people they aren't and screw up marriages, families, etc. just like it's always been (and the gays too), instead of having awareness and being allowed to figure it out when they're much younger and can avoid the devastating outcomes that befall untreated trans folks. 

[Anastasis 23274]

Just now, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

It's much better if trans people stay confused, closeted, and stigmatized until late in life or forever, so they have to try to be people they aren't and screw up marriages, families, etc. just like it's always been (and the gays too), instead of having awareness and being allowed to figure it out when they're much younger and can avoid the devastating outcomes that befall untreated trans folks. 

There is no high grade evidence that pumping children and adolescents with hormonal agents had a positive impact on any of these outcomes. 

[mchookem 15732]

40 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

IDK how her particular situation would have been dealt with.  The exponential increase in gender dysphoria diagnoses in the past 20 years or so does give me pause.

it is possible that increased research, education and acceptance has allowed more trans youth to feel 'safe' in coming out to their families and medical professionals and asking for the life-saving help they need. this alone could certainly account for the increase.

it is also possible that increased societal acceptance, particularly within younger populations, on top of normal teenage sexual curiosity, has allowed young people more freedom to explore the entire LBGTQ spectrum, some of which may reasonably be assumed/observed to be 'cool' right now. some of these individuals revert to norm as they mature - i anecdotally know two young people that would fit this category. i would think these young people are much less likely to receive a formal diagnosis and/or  treatment beyond a 'social' transition, as professionals working in this field are probably 1) pretty good at filtering thru the typical adolescent angst/bullshit, and 2) know well just how much animosity they are subjecting themselves and their patients to in today's political climate. 

in other words...doctors are almost certainly not making these diagnoses nor prescribing treatment frivolously, on a kid's 'whim'. reasonable, critical-thinking people do not assume this to be the case (and yes I realize therein lies the rub 🙄).

both of the above scenarios can be true. in any case... it's nobody's fucking business other than the individual, their family, and their medical professional.

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by mchookem

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

it is possible that increased research, education and acceptance has allowed more trans youth to feel 'safe' in coming out to their families and medical professionals and asking for the life-saving help they need. this alone could certainly account for the increase.
it is also possible that increased societal acceptance, particularly within younger populations, on top of normal teenage sexual curiosity, has allowed young people more freedom to explore the entire LBGTQ spectrum, some of which may reasonably be assumed/observed to be 'cool' right now. some of these individuals revert to norm as they mature - i anecdotally know two young people that would fit this category. i would think these young people are much less likely to receive a formal diagnosis and/or  treatment beyond a 'social' transition, as professionals working in this field are probably 1) pretty good at filtering thru the typical adolescent angst/bullshit, and 2) know well just how much animosity they are subjecting themselves and their patients to in today's political climate. 
in other words...doctors are almost certainly not making these diagnoses nor prescribing treatment frivolously, on a kid's 'whim'. reasonable, critical-thinking people do not assume this to be the case (and yes I realize therein lies the rub ).
both of the above scenarios can be true. in any case... it's nobody's fucking business other than the individual, their family, and their medical professional.
 

That sounds like small government talk.

[safe sex 11621]

15 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

There is no high grade evidence that pumping children and adolescents with hormonal agents had a positive impact on any of these outcomes. 

Go fuck yourself and the way you talk about life-saving care. I see it every fucking day at work. I see the difference between the kids who have supportive parents who allow them to transition and the kids whose parents refuse. 

I see the difference every day as people feel and more like their authentic selves, as they have more and more hormones "pumped" in. The difference in their eyes as they talk to me about their lives and transitions. 

[Willfully Horn 7910]

3 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Thanks for the mention, but I am both a dad and a grandfather.  My wife's grandmother took my MIL to the doctor when she was around 10-11 and wondered if something was wrong with her.  She told the Doc that MIL didn't want to wear dresses, climbed trees, played baseball, and slugged it out with boys that harassed her younger brother.

Doc told her to give it a couple of years and errything would work out fine.  It did.  She was a sexy mother of four.

I'm thinking that she might have been a candidate for hormones and top surgery if presented to a physician today.

It is my sincere hope that you can ask your MIL if she thought of herself as a boy, back in her youth. Persistently, consistently, and insistently. Were that part of your family’s history, it would at least be relevant to this discussion.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Willfully Horn
Spellfucked

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2650]

18 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

There is no high grade evidence that pumping children and adolescents with hormonal agents had a positive impact on any of these outcomes. 

From what aspect of gender-affirming care is the positive impact on this population coming, in your opinion? Genuine question. Or do you think trans kids about to go through the immutable effects of puberty should not be treated until we have certain high-grade evidence that you deem worthy, against the opinion of endocrinologists, psychiatrists, child development experts, etc? When I see people with no personal experience or expertise on this issue take a stance like this, it comes across like 100+ suicides would just be the price to pay so long as 1 minor doesn't end up regretting treatment, or detransitioning. 

[safe sex 11621]

They don't care about kids being massacred in schools, so of course they don't give a shit about some fruity queer kid who commits suicide

[Gil Bang 25822]

On 1/20/2023 at 7:32 PM, Anastasis said:

FWIW, testosterone has anti-depressant effects. Would be interesting to see the breakdown of the effects for M->F transition vs F->M.  I suspect the effect with regard to depression scores differentiates between the two based on the known effects of testosterone supplementation.  Do you have access to the full text, cause they have it behind their paywall. 

I watched that episode of "King of the Hill" last night.

On 1/21/2023 at 11:01 PM, tx 3 putt said:

 

Ken looks like a wide-stance guy.

[Anastasis 23274]

9 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Go fuck yourself and the way you talk about life-saving care. I see it every fucking day at work. I see the difference between the kids who have supportive parents who allow them to transition and the kids whose parents refuse. 

Probably drove some of the results in the previously discussed study.  People invested in certain outcomes will realize them to some extent. Especially when self reported instruments and self selected treatment assignment is involved.  This is why we have control groups, random assignment, and blinding, among others in the methodological toolkit. I am not sure why we are asked to throw clinical research methods, the basis which are well and broadly appreciated, out the window when it comes to this particular topic. 

[safe sex 11621]

It's because you clearly aren't an honest actor when it comes to this. There's no fucking money in trans research, so it's never going to happen. Let's opt for the most positive outcomes possible, and that means allowing children to transition when parents, doctors, and the child have all determined it is what they need.

Edited February 2, 2023 by safe sex

[StassneyHorn 6497]

My research is better than your research, and when I look at Trans Porn they better have some fat asses and big dicks.

 

[Anastasis 23274]

Lol. Check the affiliations and vested interests of the NEJM article authors. If you don’t think they have conflicting financial interests you are deluding yourself. I wouldn’t personally make a big deal out of it, and have not, but the conflict is there same as it is with most clinical research. Fantasy thinking and wish casting can’t supplant rigorous clinical research. Unless I guess NEJM lets it slide and there is a large number of people happy to cling to confirmation bias because it makes them feel good. Never mind the actual data and its context. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Anastasis

[StassneyHorn 6497]

You tried to tell us with a straight face you discussed the abortion ruling with your wife and daughters 

[DalTxHornFan 3074]

7 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Weird, huh?

Diagnoses of youths with gender dysphoria surge

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/

So odd that people show middle fingers to basic data.

[safe sex 11621]

It's because society at-large is much more aware of trans people than in previous decades. There is still enormous stigma involved, but on average more parents provide an environment where their kids feel safe enough to come out to them. And older trans people feel empowered to seek transition later in life.

It's not more complicated than that. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by safe sex

[DalTxHornFan 3074]

Just now, safe sex said:

It's because society at-large is much more aware of trans people than in previous decades. There is still enormous stigma involved, but on average more parents provide an environment where their kids feel safe enough to come out to them. And older trans people feel empowered to seek transition later in life.

It's not complicated than that. 

Cool.  And most prostate glands ovulate every 28 days or so?

[safe sex 11621]

What?

[StassneyHorn 6497]

20 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Cool.  And most prostate glands ovulate every 28 days or so?

Check out this shit. It’s right next to the cat boxes in schools you dumb fuck

Edited February 2, 2023 by StassneyHorn