LBGTQ

[Sawbonz 27,667]

On 2/2/2023 at 11:02 AM, Hank Kingsley said:

I have an Iranian uncle that transitioned sometime back in the early 80's. That side of my family loves him dearly, they don't really talk about it, and it's hard to get much info. He lives in Virginia and I rarely see him but I know he's very happy. 

But the fucking GUTS it took for him to do that back then. Especially as an Iranian. I've always admired him. 

 

Must have spent a fortune on waxing

[DDD Dad 14,364]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

You might as well be triple talking about HCQ. In fact, you may be triple. He didn't seem as generally dimwitted as you. But just putting it out into the universe. 

Why are you this way?  
 

ETA:  WTF is wrong with you?

Edited February 4, 2023 by DDD Dad

[Poe It Up 126]

30 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

One of the first things to understand is that for minors, there's very little pharmaceutical or surgical intervention.

It's mostly social, and carefully monitored.  The people involved in this know better than you that children are whimsical to say the least.

And, as much as you may like to think libruls are destroying the social fabric of America, the fact is that a child that chooses, with guidance, to socially transition will have to balance their internal happiness against a mega shit ton of people who will socially isolate and abuse them, from other kids to adults.  And that's a decision that a child can make, and reverse, validly with proper support.

Puberty blockers are sometimes used to halt development of secondary sex characteristics until the child reaches majority or passes through any possible "phase."  They have relatively few side effects and certainly don't destroy the reproductive system.  They were designed for the cases of 8 year olds growing big tits, hairy chests, and big dicks and have a 40 year track record.

The people involved in this are not letting 13-year olds have sex change operations because they think it's cool this week, despite what your political allies tell you or want you to think.

When I come across stuff like this, I remember and want to remind people that alcoholism was universally considered a moral defect or lack of willpower until the latter 20th century.  For all of modern medicine's flaws, it doesn't really tend to embrace some "flavor of the month" in social or scientific thinking, the relationship between serum cholesterol and eating cholesterol-containing foods notwithstanding.

Yeah sure, this 50 gender identities seems laughable at first, and any notion of letting minors have sex-change operations is problematic to say the least.  But, if you're not willing to dig a little deeper into the facts of it and consider that this can be a huge issue for people, then I don't really know what to tell you, other than you should "check yourself before you wreck yourself."  Analogiing this to kids wanting to eat skittles for breakfast is pretty appalling.

There’s many side affects associated with these hormones, cancer and infertility among them. Trying to say otherwise is just disingenuous. I’ve definitely dug deeper on this subject and could never in good conscience damage their physical health to such a degree.

[Anastasis 23,473]

26 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Why are you this way?  
 

ETA:  WTF is wrong with you?

Come on dad. 

[Sawbonz 27,667]

17 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

There’s many side affects associated with these hormones, cancer and infertility among them. Trying to say otherwise is just disingenuous. I’ve definitely dug deeper on this subject and could never in good conscience damage their physical health to such a degree.

Which hormone blockers cause cancer and infertility?

[Poe It Up 126]

9 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Which hormone blockers cause cancer and infertility?

Hormone blockers can have some effect on fertility, but it’s generally used as a pause button until the hormone treatments. That’s where the more serious damage takes place. 

[tchookem 3,919]

Hormone blockers can have some effect on fertility, but it’s generally used as a pause button until the hormone treatments. That’s where the more serious damage takes place. 

Your lack of an actual answer is noted.

But I'll play along... those sound like possible side effects. The kind of possible side effects that should be discussed by patient, parents, and doctors. For some reason you want Greg Abbott, Briscoe Cain and Ken Paxton involved. Weird.

[Poe It Up 126]

20 minutes ago, tchookem said:

Your lack of an actual answer is noted.

But I'll play along... those sound like possible side effects. The kind of possible side effects that should be discussed by patient, parents, and doctors. For some reason you want Greg Abbott, Briscoe Cain and Ken Paxton involved. Weird.

Google what high levels of estrogen do to a man’s testes. This really isn’t all that complicated. I never mentioned any political leader, my issue is with parents. 

[Sawbonz 27,667]

3 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

Hormone blockers can have some effect on fertility, but it’s generally used as a pause button until the hormone treatments. That’s where the more serious damage takes place. 

This does not answer my question. List what hormone blockers cause cancer and infertility. 

 

Also link evidence of a minor child being given estrogens (or androgens)

 

Why would an adult who doesn’t want their testes give a shit about what estrogens do to them?

Edited February 4, 2023 by Sawbonz

[Willfully Horn 8,065]

4 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

Google what high levels of estrogen do to a man’s testes. This really isn’t all that complicated. I never mentioned any political leader, my issue is with parents. 

Parents who experience “persistent, consistent, and insistent” declarations, you meant to say. And, please note, these same parents likely know that their kids have around a 1% probability of later deciding to detransition. 
 

Why should your issues, invoked from a distance, that conceivably could be valid for one child in a hundred, outweigh the decisions of parents, who are overwhelmingly, statistically, correct that transition is the best possible future for their child, in terms of recorded outcomes judged by decisions of those most affected?

Edited February 4, 2023 by Willfully Horn
Claro

[HenryJames 66,193]

 Nothing but respect for MY president.

[HenryJames 66,193]

 

[safe sex 11,800]

6 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

This does not answer my question. List what hormone blockers cause cancer and infertility. 

 

Also link evidence of a minor child being given estrogens (or androgens)

 

Why would an adult who doesn’t want their testes give a shit about what estrogens do to them?

It's hard to find a clinic that will even take minors younger than fifteen. My clinic's age limit is fifteen, and we will prescribe those patients estradiol and testosterone of various forms (whichever works best for the patient)...after the minor, the parent, and the provider talk things through to make sure everyone is on the same page. And ofc not every parent will sign off on things. Seeing the difference on the faces of those kids...ecstatic walking into the clinic and devastated while walking out...is the worst.

And taking E/T is not guaranteed to "destroy" your biology. Holy fucking shit. We have trans men and women regularly who stop their hormones so they can either get pregnant or get someone pregnant. Most of the time, the only "irreversible" side effects for people are shit like facial/chest/body hair/lowered voice (for trans men) and little hormone titties (trans women). Most of the effects of HRT will slowly revert once you stop taking the hormone. (Obv none of that is directed at you, Sawbonz)

Edited February 4, 2023 by safe sex

[Neonmoon 38,130]

5 hours ago, HenryJames said:

 

The small government argument bit was always a lie. They only want small government in terms of regulation and taxes. They absolutely want to control who votes, who you fuck, what you read, what you know, and what you believe. 

[tchookem 3,919]

Google what high levels of estrogen do to a man’s testes. This really isn’t all that complicated. I never mentioned any political leader, my issue is with parents. 

Oh, in that case, mind your own business, you intrusive, jackbooted prick.

[Poe It Up 126]

8 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

This does not answer my question. List what hormone blockers cause cancer and infertility. 

 

Also link evidence of a minor child being given estrogens (or androgens)

 

Why would an adult who doesn’t want their testes give a shit about what estrogens do to them?

It’s very easy to find this information. One search gives about a thousand links to the danger of the aforementioned hormones. Here’s an article about the damage to heart and risks of strokes. People are free to parent as they wish; however, the risk is far too great for my children. 
 

https://www.everydayhealth.com/heart-health/transgender-women-have-unique-heart-risks-as-they-age/

[Sawbonz 27,667]

18 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

It’s very easy to find this information. One search gives about a thousand links to the danger of the aforementioned hormones. Here’s an article about the damage to heart and risks of strokes. People are free to parent as they wish; however, the risk is far too great for my children. 
 

https://www.everydayhealth.com/heart-health/transgender-women-have-unique-heart-risks-as-they-age/

So when they have long been an adult and able to weigh the risks vs benefits of any medication or procedure they have “unique “ heart risks? 
 

why don’t you link a study that shows cardiovascular risks for phenotypical males vs age matched transgender females? 
 

You must be a troll because of you were as dumb as your posts make you seem I doubt you would be able to log on

[hobbes2702 13,083]

27 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

It’s very easy to find this information. One search gives about a thousand links to the danger of the aforementioned hormones. Here’s an article about the damage to heart and risks of strokes. People are free to parent as they wish; however, the risk is far too great for my children. 
 

https://www.everydayhealth.com/heart-health/transgender-women-have-unique-heart-risks-as-they-age/

So not cancer and infertility? Were you just making something up?

[hobbes2702 13,083]

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

So when they have long been an adult and able to weigh the risks vs benefits of any medication or procedure they have “unique “ heart risks? 
 

why don’t you link a study that shows cardiovascular risks for phenotypical males vs age matched transgender females? 
 

You must be a troll because of you were as dumb as your posts make you seem I doubt you would be able to log on

Why doesn’t he link a study that shows what he claimed originally?

I also love the “people are free to parents as the wish”… no they aren’t that is literally the entire fucking discussion 

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

The small government argument bit was always a lie. They only want small government in terms of regulation and taxes. They absolutely want to control who votes, who you fuck, what you read, what you know, and what you believe. 

This is 100% fact.

[Poe It Up 126]

19 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

So when they have long been an adult and able to weigh the risks vs benefits of any medication or procedure they have “unique “ heart risks? 
 

why don’t you link a study that shows cardiovascular risks for phenotypical males vs age matched transgender females? 
 

You must be a troll because of you were as dumb as your posts make you seem I doubt you would be able to log on

The issue isn’t necessarily the heart risks/infertility/cancer, it’s that they made these decisions at 15 or so that could lead to a lifetime of negative health outcomes. They have no concept of long term at that age. 

[elfenix 34,344]

47 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

It’s very easy to find this information. One search gives about a thousand links to the danger of the aforementioned hormones. Here’s an article about the damage to heart and risks of strokes. People are free to parent as they wish; however, the risk is far too great for my children. 
 

https://www.everydayhealth.com/heart-health/transgender-women-have-unique-heart-risks-as-they-age/

do you understand at all that any idiot can post something on the internet and google is going to index it?

[Poe It Up 126]

17 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

So not cancer and infertility? Were you just making something up?

There’s tons of that to find as well. Here’s some info on infertility on these drugs. Do I need to post the elevated risks of cancer in these hormones as well? You guys seem to have gotten lazy here. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6626312/

Testosterone therapy in transgender men can suppress ovulation and alter ovarian histology, while estrogen therapy in transgender women can lead to impaired spermatogenesis and testicular atrophy

[Poe It Up 126]

Wait a minute, is this Safe Sex poster Trauma Babe? I can’t believe I’m just now noticing the name is different. Why the change? The other one was cooler. 

[elfenix 34,344]

[Queen Bitch 1,692]

Poe: I’m jUst CoNcErnEd AbOuT wHaT tHiS DoEs tO tHe ChIlDrEn

us: What, specifically, does this do to the children that concerns you? 
 

Poe: *sends article about risks to “older” trans women*
 

Stellar debate skills! No notes!

Edited February 4, 2023 by Queen Bitch

[Poe It Up 126]

Just now, Queen Bitch said:

Poe: I’m jUst CoNcErnEd AbOuT wHaT tHiS DoEs tO tHe ChIlDrEn

us: What, specifically, does this to the children? 
 

Poe: *sends article about risk to “older” trans women*
 

Stellar debate skills! No notes!

You poor thing, you’re like a child wandering into the middle of the movie. 

[hobbes2702 13,083]

2 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

The issue isn’t necessarily the heart risks/infertility/cancer, it’s that they made these decisions at 15 or so that could lead to a lifetime of negative health outcomes. They have no concept of long term at that age. 

Still waiting for the cancer studies that you’re claiming.

The only thing I’ve seen is that men transitioning to women have a higher risk of breast cancer than non trans men but still significantly less than women. 

2 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

There’s tons of that to find as well. Here’s some info on infertility on these drugs. Do I need to post the elevated risks of cancer in these hormones as well? You guys seem to have gotten lazy here. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6626312/

Testosterone therapy in transgender men can suppress ovulation and alter ovarian histology, while estrogen therapy in transgender women can lead to impaired spermatogenesis and testicular atrophy

So you posted something else that wasn’t cancer. If it’s so prevalent then show us. 
It’s also interesting that you didn’t post the entire abstract from that study that talks about the possibilities of reversal

Edited February 4, 2023 by hobbes2702

[Sawbonz 27,667]

2 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

There’s tons of that to find as well. Here’s some info on infertility on these drugs. Do I need to post the elevated risks of cancer in these hormones as well? You guys seem to have gotten lazy here. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6626312/

Testosterone therapy in transgender men can suppress ovulation and alter ovarian histology, while estrogen therapy in transgender women can lead to impaired spermatogenesis and testicular atrophy

Lol you think transgender men want to ovulate monthly and transgender women want large sperm filled balls?!

 

 

[Sawbonz 27,667]

2 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

The issue isn’t necessarily the heart risks/infertility/cancer, it’s that they made these decisions at 15 or so that could lead to a lifetime of negative health outcomes. They have no concept of long term at that age. 

Except that nothing you have posted thus far backs this up

[Poe It Up 126]

13 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Still waiting for the cancer studies that you’re claiming.

The only thing I’ve seen is that men transitioning to women have a higher risk of breast cancer than non trans men but still significantly less than women. 

So you posted something else that wasn’t cancer. If it’s so prevalent then show us. 
It’s also interesting that you didn’t post the entire abstract from that study that talks about the possibilities of reversal

Estrogen is a known carcinogen and is linked to a higher than normal breast cancer risk, along with prostate and lactotroph adenoma. I can find more links, although I’m feeling this relationship is a bit one-sided lately with me doing all the work. 
 

Reversal is possible, but certainly not guaranteed. 

[hobbes2702 13,083]

4 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Estrogen is a known carcinogen and is linked to a higher than normal breast cancer risk, along with prostate and lactotroph adenoma. I can find more links, although I’m feeling this relationship is a bit one-sided lately with me doing all the work. 
 

Reversal is possible, but certainly not guaranteed. 

I already addressed the breast cancer risk. Their risk is greater than non trans men slightly and less than women significantly. Is that really all you’re leaning on?

Why would I do the work to support a claim you made? 
 

Also read the shit you post maybe. There’s a lot in the study that you posted about the effectiveness of discontinuing hormones on fertility health.

Three of the patients who had continued hormones were azoospermic while all patients who had discontinued hormones had semen analysis parameters that were within normal limits based on World Health Organization (WHO) reference values (32).

Edited February 4, 2023 by hobbes2702

[Sawbonz 27,667]

4 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Estrogen is a known carcinogen and is linked to a higher than normal breast cancer risk, along with prostate and lactotroph adenoma. I can find more links, although I’m feeling this relationship is a bit one-sided lately with me doing all the work. 
 

Reversal is possible, but certainly not guaranteed. 

So you think cis women should have their ovaries removed?

[Poe It Up 126]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I already addressed the breast cancer risk. Their risk is greater than non trans men slightly and less than women significantly. Is that really all you’re leaning on?

Why would I do the work to support a claim you made? 
 

Also read the shit you post maybe. There’s a lot in the study that you posted about the effectiveness of discontinuing hormones on fertility health.

Yes, I would prefer not to elevate their cancer risk when possible. Combined with the infertility risk, I couldn’t in good conscience put them through that. 

[YGIFS 19,453]

the knowledge some of you non-doctors have of these hormones and physiology and body chemistry, etc. is pretty impressive actually. 

Blows my fucking mind you couldn't apply that same scientific lens to masks or vaccines and instead "doing my own research" led you not to public health but the inner workings of puberty-stage teenage genitalia.  But hey, it's 2023...you do you.  And with a sex change, you might literally be able to  

[hobbes2702 13,083]

Just now, Poe It Up said:

Yes, I would prefer not to elevate their cancer risk when possible. Combined with the infertility risk, I couldn’t in good conscience put them through that. 

So you still haven’t done any reading of the study you posted apparently.

[Poe It Up 126]

2 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

the knowledge some of you non-doctors have of these hormones and physiology and body chemistry, etc. is pretty impressive actually. 

Blows my fucking mind you couldn't apply that same scientific lens to masks or vaccines and instead "doing my own research" led you not to public health but the inner workings of puberty-stage teenage genitalia.  But hey, it's 2023...you do you.  And with a sex change, you might literally be able to  

I’m vaxxed and actually liked the mask. There were no stop and chats and people moved out of your way at the store. I miss the pandemic. 

[Sawbonz 27,667]

9 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Yes, I would prefer not to elevate their cancer risk when possible. Combined with the infertility risk, I couldn’t in good conscience put them through that. 

So you want to ban all prescription medication that can elevate cancer risk, increase infertility, or increase cardiovascular events?

Edited February 4, 2023 by Sawbonz

[Poe It Up 126]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

So you want to bam all prescription medication that can elevate cancer risk. Increase infertility, or increase cardiovascular events?

Nope. 

[hobbes2702 13,083]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

So you want to ban all prescription medication that can elevate cancer risk, increase infertility, or increase cardiovascular events?

No no no, only the queer ones

Just now, Poe It Up said:

Nope. 

Nailed it

[Poe It Up 126]

4 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

No no no, only the queer ones

Nailed it

I don’t want to stop adults from transitioning. They’re old enough to understand the risk. 

[hobbes2702 13,083]

1 minute ago, Poe It Up said:

I don’t want to stop adults from transitioning. They’re old enough to understand the risk. 

Yes we are all aware you want to intervene in other peoples parenting and medical decisions.

[Sawbonz 27,667]

4 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

I don’t want to stop adults from transitioning. They’re old enough to understand the risk. 

 

So you are ok with hormone blockers up to age of consent and then gender affirming hormone therapy?

[tchookem 3,919]

 
So you are ok with hormone blockers up to age of consent and then gender affirming hormone therapy?

Will that cause misery to people he doesn't readily identify with? Well then he isn't for it. If you're a parent consulting with a medical professional, he wants a say in the decision, regardless of the zero impact it has on his life.

He's shown everyone who he is. It's time to believe him.

[Poe It Up 126]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

 

So you are ok with hormone blockers up to age of consent and then gender affirming hormone therapy?

I know they’re meant to be temporary, so I’m not sure about the effects of long-term use. Maybe there’s some wiggle room there though, I’ll chew on it. 

[Poe It Up 126]

11 minutes ago, tchookem said:

Will that cause misery to people he doesn't readily identify with? Well then he isn't for it. If you're a parent consulting with a medical professional, he wants a say in the decision, regardless of the zero impact it has on his life.

He's shown everyone who he is. It's time to believe him.

Where have I said I want to get involved in other’s decisions? I’m just saying that I could never do it. 

[Sawbonz 27,667]

8 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

I know they’re meant to be temporary, so I’m not sure about the effects of long-term use. Maybe there’s some wiggle room there though, I’ll chew on it. 

I’m sure the American Academy of Pediatrics will be waiting with bated breath

[TwiceHorn 31,626]

1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

Yes, I would prefer not to elevate their cancer risk when possible. Combined with the infertility risk, I couldn’t in good conscience put them through that. 

Do you want to ban smoking and smoked meats or nah?  I mean, I know you're for small government and freedom of choice and all.

But all of this is a complete sideshow.  We are talking about right wing efforts to meddle in the lives of children and their families, not adults who are presumably free to make bad health choices.  You haven't identified any real risks from which children need to be protected.  And certainly none from which they aren't protected by a combination of their parents and qualified medical personnel.  Except that they might turn out queer and you want to avoid that at all cost, seemingly.

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

Where have I said I want to get involved in other’s decisions? I’m just saying that I could never do it. 

Oh, I know this game! It’s the single issue right wing game of non compromise!

It’s a fun game, play by yourself or your group of fox watching friends. So far our resident Wannabe Aggy on this site allegedly feel:

The war on drugs should end (at least legalize weed).

People should stay out of medical decisions others are making and leave it up to those people and their doctors.

There should be red flag laws, age restrictions on guns (males up to a certain age) and even don’t care if you take their precious AR-15.

Those are major issues with positive implications beyond just their scope. But nope, absolutely can not vote for politicians that also feel the same way on one or dare I say all those issues because that would mean not voting R.

[Poe It Up 126]

18 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Do you want to ban smoking and smoked meats or nah?  I mean, I know you're for small government and freedom of choice and all.

But all of this is a complete sideshow.  We are talking about right wing efforts to meddle in the lives of children and their families, not adults who are presumably free to make bad health choices.  You haven't identified any real risks from which children need to be protected.  And certainly none from which they aren't protected by a combination of their parents and qualified medical personnel.  Except that they might turn out queer and you want to avoid that at all cost, seemingly.

No, but I’m not going to smoke meat for every meal either. It’s just begging for a negative health outcome.

There’s absolutely risks associated with these drugs, and serious ones. You may think the risk is worth it, but I most certainly do not. Queer, straight, who cares, just leave the kids out of it. 

14 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Oh, I know this game! It’s the single issue right wing game of non compromise!

It’s a fun game, play by yourself or your group of fox watching friends. So far our resident Wannabe Aggy on this site allegedly feel:

The war on drugs should end (at least legalize weed).

People should stay out of medical decisions others are making and leave it up to those people and their doctors.

There should be red flag laws, age restrictions on guns (males up to a certain age) and even don’t care if you take their precious AR-15.

Those are major issues with positive implications beyond just their scope. But nope, absolutely can not vote for politicians that also feel the same way on one or dare I say all those issues because that would mean not voting R.

I have absolutely no idea what you’re babbling about, I’m sorry.