LBGTQ

[Anastasis 23,274]

I see lots of ad hominem. Very little in the way of compelling science regarding hormonal drug therapy applied to young adolescents. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Anastasis

[Mrs Whiggins 13,049]

9 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Correct.  I've been under the influence of Mr. Rogers for many decades.

 

You gluttonous delusional ditchpig. Bringing Mr. Rogers in here like some kind of gotcha. Couple of things about Fred Rogers--he was someone who deeply cared for and most importantly listened to people, especially and always children. His willingness to discuss topics ("anything mentionable is manageable") included learning and growing his own mind. It wasn't always easy, if you read the story about Mr. Rogers and Francois Clemmons, the gay African American actor who portrayed Officer Clemmons, there exist some hard to avoid truths about how their friendship evolved over time, but ultimately Rogers' message to children was that 'you make each day a special day just by being you.' Mr. Rogers was a pastor and an advocate for children in ways that I do not see the loudest screaming voices enacting legislation against families endorsing. These so called focus on the family type activists aren't listening at all, they've put their hands over their ears.

 

Oh, and with respect to the song in the video--were you aware of the discussion (away from the show) that Rogers had in interviews regarding that song? He was very familiar with various fears that children have, ones that parents may have forgotten they themselves may have had (i.e. going down the bathtub drain, etc). As children grow and discover their bodies and the differences between male and female genitalia, some develop the fear that their penis may go away or that they don't have one because something happened to it, or that they should or should not have breasts  etc. All completely normal because children are born with brains and those brains have questions. His song addresses those particular fears and not specifically the dysphoria discussed in this thread.

 

I could go on, but I don't think it very helpful. Fred Rogers was an imperfect human as are we all, but he was foremost a kind and humble servant to humanity.

 

 

 

[troph 24,417]

22 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I see lots of ad hominem. Very little in the way of compelling science regarding hormonal drug therapy applied to young adolescents. 

You ignore, and so will I. Enjoy the company of immortal, beeper, Johnny sack, and the rest of those types. I’ve had enough of your impervious sanctimonious drivel. Trans kids have their issues to deal with and we trans adults have ours. Putting up with your faux intellectualism nonsense would only prove my insanity to your types. You’re one of the last hold outs you aren’t capable here so enjoy your corner of the site, I can’t say I’ll never respond to you again but I can say it will be infrequent at most. c'est la vie.

Edited February 11, 2023 by troph

[Doc Sam Beckett 5,781]

On 2/6/2023 at 4:46 AM, wildcat09 said:

Ana seems to think every other poster on Surly is a triplehorn sock.

"Everyone I don't like is triplehorn" is Ana's new "Russia Russia Russia" .....since he can't use that anymore 

[WhatTheBuck 28,685]

2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Lol, how did “shutting down our society and economy” (a thing that never actually happened) kill old people? The whole purpose of taking measures to prevent the spread of Covid was to save old people. It was your party openly saying they should die, you fucking moron.

That and Trump calling it a hoax, and lying to the public about it, sowing misinformation about it, never wearing a mask (except in occasional coerced circumstances), demonizing Dr. Anthony Fauci because he had the nerve to contradict Trump’s reality tv bullshit approach to his presidency with the best available medical advice, etc. Trump’s mishandling of the response unquestionably led to innumerable preventable deaths, likely in the hundreds of thousands. It’s also why vaccination rates are lower in red states than in blue states and why the virus kills more Republican voters than anyone else. The party of stupid is really living up to their nickname on that one. 

[Poe It Up 126]

3 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

No. She is consistent in stating that a transgender child is at high risk for suicide, and that risk is magnified if the parents aren’t supportive of their identification. They are also at a high risk for sexual and physical abuse, substance dependence, and homelessness, oftentimes because of their parents’ response. 

 

You seem to think parenting has something to do with sexual orientation and gender identity. It doesn’t. 
 

You should read the accounts of parents who have lived the experience. Many started out thinking as you and come to the realization their child is what they say they are. Many were staunchly conservative and active in their churches. This isn’t a child playing dress up and throwing a fit when they don’t get their way

Where did I suggest parents decide their children’s gender or sexuality? My issue is with the treatments at an early age, that’s a hard no for me. I’d rather them hate me than be responsible for any physical deformation or castration. 

3 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Edited February 11, 2023 by Poe It Up
Double quote

[Anastasis 23,274]

12 minutes ago, troph said:

You ignore, and so will I. Enjoy the company of immortal, beeper, Johnny sack, and the rest of those types. I’ve had enough of your impervious sanctimonious drivel. Trans kids have their issues to deal with and we trans adults have ours. Putting up with your faux intellectualism nonsense would only prove my insanity to your types. You’re one of the last hold outs you aren’t capable here so enjoy your corner of the site, I can’t say I’ll never respond to you again but I can say it will be infrequent at most. c'est la vie.

I am truly sorry to hear that. Maybe I’ll catch you out on the patio at hops and thyme and we can make up IRL. I understand that you feel very passionately on this topic. I get it. Your last couple posts are nothing but ad hominem attacks. I have lodged no such against you. But the passion, cest la vie. 
 

 

[hobbes2702 12,719]

1 minute ago, Poe It Up said:

Where did I suggest parents decide their children’s gender or sexuality? My issue is with the treatments at an early age, that’s a hard no for me. I’d rather them hate me than be responsible for any physical deformation or castration. 

Where did I suggest parents decide their children’s gender or sexuality? My issue is with the treatments at an early age, that’s a hard no for me. I’d rather them hate me than be responsible for any physical deformation or castration. 

This is not a serious post in any way. 

[Anastasis 23,274]

31 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

"Everyone I don't like is triplehorn" is Ana's new "Russia Russia Russia" .....since he can't use that anymore 

I can’t help it if there are people on this thread regurgitating, in some cases word for word, the same types of arguments triplehorn was making against me when he was going unhinged with his HCQ promotion. That some posters here don’t pause and recognize the similarities before they hit submit is frankly a bit surprising to me.

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Anastasis

[hayden_horn 11,348]

27 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I am truly sorry to hear that. Maybe I’ll catch you out on the patio at hops and thyme and we can make up IRL. I understand that you feel very passionately on this topic. I get it. Your last couple posts are nothing but ad hominem attacks. I have lodged no such against you. But the passion, cest la vie. 
 

 

actually all this is bullshit and you've been nothing but a colossal asshole on this thread for....reasons i guess. 

what are you even arguing here?

[Anastasis 23,274]

5 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

actually all this is bullshit and you've been nothing but a colossal asshole on this thread for....reasons i guess. 

what are you even arguing here?

Maybe go back to the post where someone linked the NEJM article and start reading. I am sure that you can follow my participation in the discussion Hayden. Jesus. 

[fattyflattie 4,636]

12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Hell, most adolescents don't know up from shootem about anything relating to sexuality, including their own.  So, yeah, some kids that pronounce themselves bi or pan or nonbinary or whatever are going to end up wrong and are just doing it for some sort of attention.  But this is a real and serious problem for some who have suffered in the past because closed-minded people refused to accept it.

I don’t know shit about shit wrt young kids and their sexuality, but I know my oldest (5th grade) has a girl in her class that for last 2 years (4/5) who tells them she is a lesbian.   Seems young to me to of figured that out with any certainty, but I’m certainly not an expert.  I recall 2-3 girls coming out right after high school.  I don’t recall a (out) single gay man thru HS and one guy came out (or I heard of it) like 10+ years later.  I think that’s got a lot more to due with social acceptance than there being more gays due to social media or whatever lol is upthread. 

[safe sex 11,621]

4th and 5th grade are not too early for a child to know they're gay or trans. I "knew" in 1st grade that something was up, but because of where and when I grew up, I ran from those feelings. With a significantly greater degree social acceptance as well as culture visibility, especially in regards to homosexuality, many more children now feel free to explore those feelings and even discuss them with parents.

ETA: Your daughter's friend may end up figuring out that she's bisexual rather than a lesbian and date both men and women. She might, for a while at some point in life, exclusively date men and never again be with a woman. Neither of those things negate that she is a queer woman. Sexuality and gender are spectrums, and why that's so hard for so many otherwise well educated people to wrap their heads around is beyond me.

Edited February 11, 2023 by safe sex

[WhatTheBuck 28,685]

32 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Sexuality and gender are spectrums, and why that's so hard for so many otherwise well educated people to wrap their heads around is beyond me.

Despite the flaws in his study, Dr. Kinsey described a scale from 1-10 between being completely heterosexual and completely homosexual. We’ve known about that for a long time. We’ve seen it demonstrated by people’s behavior. I’ve had gay friends tell me stories about how straight guys, happily married with children, would occasionally cruise the gay bars for a hookup. It didn’t mean they were secretly gay and living a lie. They were just satisfying an urge. Biology is messy, it’s not easily cut and dried. 

[Sawbonz 27,109]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

I can’t help it if there are people on this thread regurgitating, in some cases word for word, the same types of arguments triplehorn was making against me when he was going unhinged with his HCQ promotion. That some posters here don’t pause and recognize the similarities before they hit submit is frankly a bit surprising to me.

 

Again you are wrong

 

”there are well designed, properly powered studies showing that ivermectin is not effective against covid”

 

is not the same argument as

 

“there are no well designed properly powered studies showing puberty blockers and exogenous hormone therapy are effective for gender dysmorphia”

 

 

[Sawbonz 27,109]

Prospective study of gender affirming hormone therapy 12-20 yo cohort

 

From last month’s NEJM 

Quote

RESULTS

A total of 315 transgender and nonbinary participants 12 to 20 years of age (mean [±SD], 16±1.9) were enrolled in the study. A total of 190 participants (60.3%) were transmasculine (i.e., persons designated female at birth who identify along the masculine spectrum), 185 (58.7%) were non-Latinx or non-Latine White, and 25 (7.9%) had received previous pubertal suppression treatment. During the study period, appearance congruence, positive affect, and life satisfaction increased, and depression and anxiety symptoms decreased. Increases in appearance congruence were associated with concurrent increases in positive affect and life satisfaction and decreases in depression and anxiety symptoms. The most common adverse event was suicidal ideation (in 11 participants [3.5%]); death by suicide occurred in 2 participants.

Would be interesting to know suicide rate of these patients compared to untreated cohort. If anyone has link to full article see if it’s in the discussion 

[Anastasis 23,274]

17 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Again you are wrong

You should go back and read some of the exchanges on the topic in the Covid thread. 

[Sawbonz 27,109]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

You should go back and read some of the exchanges on the topic in the Covid thread. 

No need. You should think about the many examples of established medical treatment that don’t have high level evidence backing them 

[Anastasis 23,274]

11 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Prospective study of gender affirming hormone therapy 12-20 yo cohort

 

From last month’s NEJM 

Would be interesting to know suicide rate of these patients compared to untreated cohort. If anyone has link to full article see if it’s in the discussion 

Raw suicide rate among the participants in that study is 635 per 100k. Background suicide rate in 10-24 age cohort is 10.5 per 100k per cdc. No real conclusion can be drawn because it’s a small n issue and the confidence interval would be hopelessly wide. But if you are just comparing the event rate point estimates, that is an extremely high suicide rate among the individuals in that study receiving hormone treatment. 

[Sawbonz 27,109]

6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Background suicide rate in 10-24 age cohort is 10.5 per 100k per cdc

What does that have to do with untreated gender dysmorphia cohort?

[Anastasis 23,274]

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

What does that have to do with untreated gender dysmorphia cohort?

I don’t have that number handy, but you can apply any realistic multiple of the risk you want and it’s not going to get close to 635. 
 

And yes, it would have been nice to have a suitable control group to facilitate such comparisons. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Anastasis

[Sawbonz 27,109]

Data indicate that 82% of transgender individuals have considered killing themselves and 40% have attempted suicide, with suicidality highest among transgender youth.

 

if 40% are attempting you have to figure quite a few are successful 

[atomheartbevo 89,285]

14 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

These. Everything else is bullshit hysteria, used as a flimsy cover to turn one’s feelings of “gays and trannies are icky” into law.

I have high school friends (late 80s/early 90s) who have tried to claim that there "weren't any gays at our school, but now there are gays at all the schools?" even though there were literally gay kids at our school, and they knew they were gay. Most of them did not openly come out as gay until may years later precisely because of the harassment they had received in school, but most of us knew.

14 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I have a deep concern that so many kids are essentially being experimented with these days. 

13 hours ago, Captainant said:

You're like two steps away from qanon conspiracy shit man, keep going! You already live in Dallas so I'm sure your neighbor can fill in the rest of the blanks on how scientists are really just looking to experiment on children. 

I have a qanon sister-in-law who has rambled about kids being trafficked, kids being experimented on, etc., but she can't/won't find actual (relevant) proof to back up anything she says - it's all just stupid unsourced shit on the internet, or things that happen in other countries.  Or she tells us to "do your own research".

She's also the one person in the family that nobody will trust their kids with - she's gotten angry and yelled about her nieces and nephews getting vaccinated.  Her siblings, as well as myself, have told her to her face we would never trust our kids with her when she's offered to babysit, etc.  She is literally the person we believe would kidnap our kids, in the guise of "protecting them" because we get them regular checkups at the doctors, vaccinations, etc. and it makes her angry.

Even though her mom, her dad, and her stepmom were all medical professionals for decades, she doesn't trust anything they say.

Her latest crusade is trying to tell people that the rainbow pride flag is secretly the flag of Satan, amongst other things.

She doesn't come up with this shit on her own - most of what she pushes, a quick internet search reveals it's the latest talking point being pushed by various shady groups.

Edited February 11, 2023 by atomheartbevo

[troph 24,417]

1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

I have high school friends (late 80s/early 90s) who have tried to claim that there "weren't any gays at our school, but now there are gays at all the schools?" even though there were literally gay kids at our school, and they knew they were gay. Most of them did not openly come out as gay until may years later precisely because of the harassment they had received in school, but most of us knew.

I have a qanon sister-in-law who has rambled about kids being trafficked, kids being experimented on, etc., but she can't/won't find actual (relevant) proof to back up anything she says - it's all just stupid unsourced shit on the internet, or things that happen in other countries.  Or she tells us to "do your own research".

She's also the one person in the family that nobody will trust their kids with - she's gotten angry and yelled about her nieces and nephews getting vaccinated.  Her siblings, as well as myself, have told her to her face we would never trust our kids with her when she's offered to babysit, etc.  She is literally the person we believe would kidnap our kids, in the guise of "protecting them" because we get them regular checkups at the doctors, vaccinations, etc. and it makes her angry.

Even though her mom, her dad, and her stepmom were all medical professionals for decades, she doesn't trust anything they say.

Her latest crusade is trying to tell people that the rainbow pride flag is secretly the flag of Satan, amongst other things.

I can unequivocally confirm we are all satanic zombies sent here to take your children and experiment on them. We have to hide it though otherwise we would be killed in the street. So we concocted an elaborate scheme to get away with it. 
 

[atomheartbevo 89,285]

13 minutes ago, troph said:

can unequivocally confirm we are all satanic zombies sent here to take your children and experiment on them. We have to hide it though otherwise we would be killed in the street. So we concocted an elaborate scheme to get away with it. 

[Sawbonz 27,109]

4 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

My issue is with the treatments at an early age, that’s a hard no for me

If you had an eight year old son that came to you and said “daddy I’ve been thinking about this for a long time and I really believe I’m a girl” how would you respond? 
 

now take the same child at 11 after 3 years of counseling and therapy who says “daddy I’m more convinced than ever I’m a girl”. How do you respond?

[WhatTheBuck 28,685]

1 hour ago, troph said:

I can unequivocally confirm we are all satanic zombies sent here to take your children and experiment on them. We have to hide it though otherwise we would be killed in the street. So we concocted an elaborate scheme to get away with it. 

[Post Oak 20,166]

15 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

If you had an eight year old son that came to you and said “daddy I’ve been thinking about this for a long time and I really believe I’m a girl” how would you respond? 
 

now take the same child at 11 after 3 years of counseling and therapy who says “daddy I’m more convinced than ever I’m a girl”. How do you respond?

He throws him down a well. 

[Sawbonz 27,109]

[Sawbonz 27,109]

This whole “grooming” thing is just silly. It presupposes gender and sexual orientation are somehow malleable in adolescents which flies in the face of objective data. 
 

As far as the idea of “sexualizing” this age group:

from 6 yo to 11-12 I was hauling ass home on my bike in time to catch

and

 

 

 

Where was the outcry against sexualizing our youth?

 

 

[hobbes2702 12,719]

Well see those are women. The sexualizing they are fine with, it’s the queerness that they aren’t. 
Far too many smart smart posters in this thread trying to rationalize with bigots and a blowhard.

Edited February 11, 2023 by hobbes2702

[Poe It Up 126]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

If you had an eight year old son that came to you and said “daddy I’ve been thinking about this for a long time and I really believe I’m a girl” how would you respond? 
 

now take the same child at 11 after 3 years of counseling and therapy who says “daddy I’m more convinced than ever I’m a girl”. How do you respond?

I can’t imagine I’d be very surprised at that point. It’s pretty easy to tell early on by the toys they play with and type of activities they enjoy. For example, my sons are all about trucks and action figures, whereas my daughter is all about babies and playing dress up. 
 

I’d say that I love them and I would thank them for gathering up the courage to talk to us. I’d have no issue with sending them to counseling, it’s seems the appropriate thing to do. 

[safe sex 11,621]

4 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

 It’s pretty easy to tell early on by the toys they play with and type of activities they enjoy. For example, my sons are all about trucks and action figures, whereas my daughter is all about babies and playing dress up. 
 

Imagine believing this in tyool 2023.

Edited February 11, 2023 by safe sex

[mchookem 15,729]

2 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Imagine believing this in tyool 2023.

me reading that lol

 

[WhatTheBuck 28,685]

35 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

from 6 yo to 11-12 I was hauling ass home on my bike in time to catch

I just happened to post about this in the Movies and TV forum. Did you know Debra Winger played Wonder Woman’s little sister? It was just the second thing she’d ever been in.

That’s Carolyn Jones playing their mother Queen Hippolyta. I’m sure you remember her.

[Poe It Up 126]

4 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Imagine experiencing this as a parent in 2023.

Fify. Also, have no idea what tyool means.

 

[TwiceHorn 30,956]

12 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

I don’t know shit about shit wrt young kids and their sexuality, but I know my oldest (5th grade) has a girl in her class that for last 2 years (4/5) who tells them she is a lesbian.   Seems young to me to of figured that out with any certainty, but I’m certainly not an expert.  I recall 2-3 girls coming out right after high school.  I don’t recall a (out) single gay man thru HS and one guy came out (or I heard of it) like 10+ years later.  I think that’s got a lot more to due with social acceptance than there being more gays due to social media or whatever lol is upthread. 

I don't doubt it.  That is relatively harmless. It's really not a whole lot different from a 5th grade boy declaring that he wants to pork Salma Hayek, or Zendaya or whoever 5th grade boys think they want to pork and have been saying so for probably a century or more.

But if she were instead saying "i'm really a boy" that might be more cause for concern.  And I don't mean pearl-clutching concern, but more like sincere parental concern.

But whatever they're saying, I find it nigh unto impossible to believe that the professionals, doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, involved in this a) have an interest in providing gender altering treatment to those who are "just going through a phase" or "acting out." and b) are not fairly expert in sussing out whether the child in question really is suffering from gender dysphoria and really will benefit from the treatment.

I similarly find it nigh unto impossible to imagine that even the most "woke" doctor or other medical professional would treat a patient thusly to advance their "agenda." 

I mean, do people really think they're trying to create some kind of queer army to defeat the fundagelicals or something?  I know what the queers are doing to the soil, but gzus h.

Edited February 12, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[WhatTheBuck 28,685]

What are the queers doing to the soil? Composting? Planting gardens? Landscaping?

[mchookem 15,729]

gay worms, duh

[YGIFS 19,445]

It was actually Wonder Woman that made me realize that I liked girls, very early on.  So this hits close to home.  But it really is a spectrum.  I was well-groomed, clean, and cultured so people thought I might be gay.  NTTAWWT.  but it never bothered me either.  Two gay relatives chose me to come out to over the years.  Nobody is 100% anything. 

Admittedly, procreation is 100% binary.  A sperm has to fertilize an egg.  No matter who says what, that's how humans get made.  Procreation is not on a spectrum, it's science bitch.  But Sex?  Sex is a spectrum as long as my schlong.  And I couldn't give fuck one who does what with theirs.  

[elfenix 34,153]

8 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I see lots of ad hominem. Very little in the way of compelling science regarding hormonal drug therapy applied to young adolescents. 

just wait until troph starts calling everyone she disagrees with racist eugenicists. 

[Sawbonz 27,109]

2 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

I’d say that I love them and I would thank them for gathering up the courage to talk to us. I’d have no issue with sending them to counseling,

And when after counseling they are more convinced they are a girl and tell you they are afraid of going through puberty what would you say

[Willfully Horn 7,909]

9 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I see lots of ad hominem

[Poe It Up 126]

32 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

And when after counseling they are more convinced they are a girl and tell you they are afraid of going through puberty what would you say

Change can be scary, so I would be very understanding and stress that treatments are far too risky before adulthood. 

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

And when after counseling they are more convinced they are a girl and tell you they are afraid of going through puberty what would you say

Really? This dude and his homies have zero empathy. He doesn’t give a fuck of other kids kill themselves, just as long as his kids don’t.

[Sawbonz 27,109]

34 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

stress that treatments are far too risky before adulthood. 

In my hypothetical , that would be the exact opposite of understanding. I tried to walk you through an exercise in empathy, and you point out that it is not something you need to worry about because your children are cis. Why is it unsurprising that you would follow that up with your latest response? 

[WhatTheBuck 28,685]

3 hours ago, mchookem said:

gay worms, duh

That would make them simultaneously gay and lesbian. Earthworms are functioning hermaphrodites with both male and female parts. When they mate, both worms join both parts to the corresponding other parts on the other worm. They do this by lining up against each other in opposite directions. Ideally, each worm will impregnate the other. So if you ever see two worms canoodling while “facing” the same direction, you might have found some queer worms.

[Bojack 2,073]

 

5 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

If you had an eight year old son that came to you and said “daddy I’ve been thinking about this for a long time and I really believe I’m a girl” how would you respond? 
 

now take the same child at 11 after 3 years of counseling and therapy who says “daddy I’m more convinced than ever I’m a girl”. How do you respond?

 

5 hours ago, Post Oak said:

He throws him down a well. 

First he calls him or her a terrorist.

[atomheartbevo 89,285]

6 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

If you had an eight year old son that came to you and said “daddy I’ve been thinking about this for a long time and I really believe I’m a girl” how would you respond? 

I have not had that happen with my kids, but I know they have classmates in their elementary who dress/act the opposite of what some people think they should (boys wearing bright nail polish, wearing dresses, bright scarves,  or whatever to school, etc.) and who maybe want to be addressed by another name or gender, and none of the parents seems to give a shit, and none of the kids seem to be harassing them (at least openly).  Of course my neighborhood has plenty of open LBGTQ types (plenty of kids with two moms or two dads, etc.) and is mostly well-educated, etc.

I'd imagine that up in Arkansas, Oklahoma, or NE Texas where I have relatives, particularly the rural areas, that kind of stuff would not be tolerated one bit, by the schools, by the bullies, and by other parents, and hell possibly by their own parents.  Honestly, I could not imagine what a 7 or 8 year-old boy who wanted to wear bright nail polish and a scarf or dress or whatever to school would go through up there, but I'd imagine it would be horrific.  I'd be worried about their safety.

Edited February 12, 2023 by atomheartbevo

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2,650]

A significant amount of evidence supporting positive outcomes of treatment, under the standard of care, of trans adolescents --but not much "high quality clinical evidence" as some would require in this particular arena 

vs. 

no significant or quality evidence that not treating trans adolescents leads to positive outcomes 

Unless you think treatment regret appearing to be 1-10% (and 10% very generously) is a huge thing...

While the culture warriors try to catch up on their very particularized outrage about the audacity of trans people existing and seeking treatment, the evidentiary default of "do no harm" has shifted the burden to the non-treaters.