LBGTQ

[fattyflattie 4636]

6 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't doubt it.  That is relatively harmless. It's really not a whole lot different from a 5th grade boy declaring that he wants to pork Salma Hayek, or Zendaya or whoever 5th grade boys think they want to pork and have been saying so for probably a century or more.

But if she were instead saying "i'm really a boy" that might be more cause for concern.  And I don't mean pearl-clutching concern, but more like sincere parental concern.

But whatever they're saying, I find it nigh unto impossible to believe that the professionals, doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, involved in this a) have no interest in providing gender altering treatment to those who are "just going through a phase" or "acting out." and b) are fairly expert in sussing out whether the child in question really is suffering from gender dysphoria and really will benefit from the treatment.

I similarly find it nigh unto impossible to imagine that even the most "woke" doctor or other medical professional would treat a patient thusly to advance their "agenda." 

I mean, do people really think they're trying to create some kind of queer army to defeat the fundagelicals or something?  I know what the queers are doing to the soil, but gzus h.

Agreed.  Thinking back now, I think it was fifth grade when me and my buddies found a bunch of nude mags in an ice chest on a green belt.    If I recall, we made it less than a week before we were caught with them.  There was no doubt how we felt about what lay in those pages, so stands to reason kids non-cis kids would have it figured out as well.   I’m just having a hard time linking me at that age to my kids now at that age.   

[aggie08 21150]

The thing that frustrates me the most about this debate is the same thing that frustrates me about the gun debate: there is no doubt whatever that most of these people would completely change their town if it happened to their kid. If their daughter was killed in a school shooting, or it was their son struggling with his sexuality or identity, their positions would flip overnight. I know it. You know it. Hell, deep down, they know it.

But, since it's not, they don't care. Just no ability to empathize with any human being outside of their own roof. Kinda sad really.

Edited February 12, 2023 by aggie08

[atomheartbevo 89285]

17 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Thinking back now, I think it was fifth grade when me and my buddies found a bunch of nude mags in an ice chest on a green belt.

Wow, your porn fairy was all high-class and shit.

My porn fairy left them in a paper bag in some bushes in the woods near my house.  Even with a recent rainfall, they were still amazing.

[fattyflattie 4636]

Just now, atomheartbevo said:

Wow, your porn fairy was all high-class and shit.

My porn fairy left them in a paper bag in some bushes in the woods near my house.  Even with a recent rainfall, they were still amazing.

Kitchen trash bag, inside of one of those old orange igloos with the thousand little squares on top.  Cousin got caught over the weekend with one in his room. Mine never even made it out my backpack before the folks got that call.  Oh well, pretty sure I didn’t even know what they were for for at least another year or so.  

[TwiceHorn 30966]

6 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

What are the queers doing to the soil? Composting? Planting gardens? Landscaping?

Building landing strips for gay Martians.

That song, released in 1988, is a pretty perfect encapsulation of Trumpkins.

Edited February 12, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 30966]

41 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Agreed.  Thinking back now, I think it was fifth grade when me and my buddies found a bunch of nude mags in an ice chest on a green belt.    If I recall, we made it less than a week before we were caught with them.  There was no doubt how we felt about what lay in those pages, so stands to reason kids non-cis kids would have it figured out as well.   I’m just having a hard time linking me at that age to my kids now at that age.   

Well, the point wasn't whether you got little stiffies in 5th grade looking at pr0n.  Raises an interesting point, though.  Male children probably get a semi-incomprehensible tip-off of their sexuality at a pretty early age by getting aroused looking at nude women.  I'm not sure female children get that tip off.  And, I think that tip off is more appreciated in retrospect than when it actually happens.  That is, it's easy for us dudes to look back and say, yeah I knew back when I was 11 because I liked looking at spank mags so much. 

But a 5th grader barely knows what's what.  They're just making an absurd declaration of a sexual nature, mostly to fit in with their friends.

Edited February 12, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[fattyflattie 4636]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, the point wasn't whether you got little stiffies in 5th grade looking at pr0n.  But a 5th grader barely knows what's what.  They're just making an absurd declaration of a sexual nature, mostly to fit in with their friends.

First of all, I’ve gotten medium stiffies my entire life.  
 

But that’s what I was getting at. For me, I’d agree.  @safe sex says her feelings were clear back to 1st grade, or she knows of that (last page, can’t recall).  I’m not being argumentative, it just seemed crazy to me that my daughters classmate already knew how to express that (although I’m sure you have to have more of a talk when you’re trending non-cis, ie I never even thought twice when my girls would talk about having a husband or marrying a prince, etc).  When my daughter told me about her friend was when we started to discuss what a lesbian means, etc.  

[Anastasis 23274]

2 hours ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

A significant amount of evidence supporting positive outcomes of treatment, under the standard of care, of trans adolescents --but not much "high quality clinical evidence" as some would require in this particular arena 

This is totally nonsensical. I’m a colossal asshole for pointing these things out apparently.  

Edited February 12, 2023 by Anastasis

[troph 24417]

38 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, the point wasn't whether you got little stiffies in 5th grade looking at pr0n.  Raises an interesting point, though.  Male children probably get a semi-incomprehensible tip-off of their sexuality at a pretty early age by getting aroused looking at nude women.  I'm not sure female children get that tip off.  And, I think that tip off is more appreciated in retrospect than when it actually happens.  That is, it's easy for us dudes to look back and say, yeah I knew back when I was 11 because I liked looking at spank mags so much. 

But a 5th grader barely knows what's what.  They're just making an absurd declaration of a sexual nature, mostly to fit in with their friends.

 

32 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

First of all, I’ve gotten medium stiffies my entire life.  
 

But that’s what I was getting at. For me, I’d agree.  @safe sex says her feelings were clear back to 1st grade, or she knows of that (last page, can’t recall).  I’m not being argumentative, it just seemed crazy to me that my daughters classmate already knew how to express that (although I’m sure you have to have more of a talk when you’re trending non-cis, ie I never even thought twice when my girls would talk about having a husband or marrying a prince, etc).  When my daughter told me about her friend was when we started to discuss what a lesbian means, etc.  

you are both talking about sexuality. In some ways that external - who are you attracted to. Yes it’s who you are but gender is much more in your face. I remember playing I’ll show you mine if you show me yours at a young age and feeling something was wrong with me.  By the time I knew what puberty was I was scared out of my mind to go through it.  As for nude magazines like playboy it was always both and - I want to be her and I want to be with her.  

[fattyflattie 4636]

24 minutes ago, troph said:

 

you are both talking about sexuality. In some ways that external - who are you attracted to. Yes it’s who you are but gender is much more in your face. I remember playing I’ll show you mine if you show me yours at a young age and feeling something was wrong with me.  By the time I knew what puberty was I was scared out of my mind to go through it.  As for nude magazines like playboy it was always both and - I want to be her and I want to be with her.  

We were off on a tangent from an anecdotal story upthread about the sexuality of a student in my daughters class. I suppose it could be tied into gender issues of the same age group, but I don’t even have anything anecdotal on that.   I can’t begin to explain to you how different my experience with our school is than @atomheartbevo experience upthread.  

[fattyflattie 4636]

29 minutes ago, troph said:

As for nude magazines like playboy it was always both and - I want to be her and I want to be with her.  

I could see where that would be confusing for anyone, tbh. Much less a child going thru it all.  Like I’ve maintained thru this entire thread, I don’t know shit about shit in the grand scheme, only here to read and learn. 

[Willfully Horn 7910]

4 hours ago, Anastasis said:

This is totally nonsensical. 

As I have linked a half dozen studies reaching the same conclusion, all of which are from sources that are supposedly trustworthy, (in fact you have only pointed to the NEJM with disappointment,) authored by folks whose credentials you have expressly supported, I wonder why you find this statement nonsensical.

Edited to add that I acknowledge your doubts about the certainty expressed by the authors, though I obviously cannot speak knowledgeably about your doubts. I will point out that you meet posters who rely on others, with the same expertise you have, with invective. And then bitch about ad hominem attacks.

Inability to acknowledge truth? What’s that about?

Edited February 12, 2023 by Willfully Horn

[Sawbonz 27111]

15 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Well see those are women. The sexualizing they are fine with, it’s the queerness that they aren’t. 
Far too many smart smart posters in this thread trying to rationalize with bigots and a blowhard.

Yes but think of all the lesbians that were created 

[troph 24417]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

Yes but think of all the lesbians that were created 

There is a God, thank you Jesus!

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

16 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

I can’t imagine I’d be very surprised at that point. It’s pretty easy to tell early on by the toys they play with and type of activities they enjoy. For example, my sons are all about trucks and action figures, whereas my daughter is all about babies and playing dress up.

Dolls. Your sons play with dolls. NTTAWWT.

When Hasbro debuted GI Joe their marketing team coined the term "action figure' because they figured boys (read: Men) would not purchase dolls.

This is a doll. Note the use of the word 'action' for each figure:

 

Here is a Barbie collection from the same era:

Ken is a lover not a fighter. Love is an action, too and I would argue more important than fighting.

 

Seriously and before someone brings out all the current doll options available, once the 'action figures' became popular, males and especially the males who collected these dolls came up with all sorts of definitions and requirements to distinguish their 'action figures' from 'dolls,' because the male ego is rather fragile apparently.

In one of the stranger cases that seems to augment the extra prices that females pay for existing, there was a case as recently as 2003 where a toy company argued that its 'action figures' were nonhuman and therefore toys and not dolls. Dolls, you see,  have double the tariff rate.

 

@mchookem's gif was appropriate.

I played with Barbie's, G.I. Joes, a baby with a high chair my dad made, Hot Wheels (massive fan of those--the single tracks laid side by side so you could race models ), Tonka trucks, and even had a very old, somewhat fragile DX (maybe it was Texaco?) gas station model that my dad had found that was so cool (working garage doors and little bitty pumps so you could drive your car, gas it up and work on it!) but sadly it went missing at some point (likely a garage sale).

In other words as has been pointed out ad infinitum, your worldview could use a little more empathy. I don't care if your children play with dolls, footballs, or an Easy Bake oven and no matter the gender as long as they are happy and loved for who they are.

Once more, we could have a completely off topic discussion on how societies influence these types of things from birth onwards, but I will stop here as it isn't appropriate for the thread. I'm on an off topic roll this weekend it seems.

[Poe It Up 126]

9 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Dolls. Your sons play with dolls. NTTAWWT.

When Hasbro debuted GI Joe their marketing team coined the term "action figure' because they figured boys (read: Men) would not purchase dolls.

This is a doll. Note the use of the word 'action' for each figure:

 

Here is a Barbie collection from the same era:

Ken is a lover not a fighter. Love is an action, too and I would argue more important than fighting.

 

Seriously and before someone brings out all the current doll options available, once the 'action figures' became popular, males and especially the males who collected these dolls came up with all sorts of definitions and requirements to distinguish their 'action figures' from 'dolls,' because the male ego is rather fragile apparently.

In one of the stranger cases that seems to augment the extra prices that females pay for existing, there was a case as recently as 2003 where a toy company argued that its 'action figures' were nonhuman and therefore toys and not dolls. Dolls, you see,  have double the tariff rate.

 

@mchookem's gif was appropriate.

I played with Barbie's, G.I. Joes, a baby with a high chair my dad made, Hot Wheels (massive fan of those--the single tracks laid side by side so you could race models ), Tonka trucks, and even had a very old, somewhat fragile DX (maybe it was Texaco?) gas station model that my dad had found that was so cool (working garage doors and little bitty pumps so you could drive your car, gas it up and work on it!) but sadly it went missing at some point (likely a garage sale).

In other words as has been pointed out ad infinitum, your worldview could use a little more empathy. I don't care if your children play with dolls, footballs, or an Easy Bake oven and no matter the gender as long as they are happy and loved for who they are.

Once more, we could have a completely off topic discussion on how societies influence these types of things from birth onwards, but I will stop here as it isn't appropriate for the thread. I'm on an off topic roll this weekend it seems.

It’s not just toys. It’s the way they interact with the toys and the activities they enjoy, it’s very, very different. My boys love to fight with them and set up elaborate battles between them, my daughter never did anything resembling that. They want to wrestle and she wants to color instead. Sure, they would occasionally play dress up to appease her and she would do the same, but it wasn’t what they were drawn towards. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Spoiler

 

[tchookem 3899]

Dolls. Your sons play with dolls. NTTAWWT.
When Hasbro debuted GI Joe their marketing team coined the term "action figure' because they figured boys (read: Men) would not purchase dolls.
This is a doll. Note the use of the word 'action' for each figure:

 
Here is a Barbie collection from the same era:

Ken is a lover not a fighter. Love is an action, too and I would argue more important than fighting.
 
Seriously and before someone brings out all the current doll options available, once the 'action figures' became popular, males and especially the males who collected these dolls came up with all sorts of definitions and requirements to distinguish their 'action figures' from 'dolls,' because the male ego is rather fragile apparently.
In one of the stranger cases that seems to augment the extra prices that females pay for existing, there was a case as recently as 2003 where a toy company argued that its 'action figures' were nonhuman and therefore toys and not dolls. Dolls, you see,  have double the tariff rate.
 
[mention=210]mchookem[/mention]'s gif was appropriate.
I played with Barbie's, G.I. Joes, a baby with a high chair my dad made, Hot Wheels (massive fan of those--the single tracks laid side by side so you could race models ), Tonka trucks, and even had a very old, somewhat fragile DX (maybe it was Texaco?) gas station model that my dad had found that was so cool (working garage doors and little bitty pumps so you could drive your car, gas it up and work on it!) but sadly it went missing at some point (likely a garage sale).
In other words as has been pointed out ad infinitum, your worldview could use a little more empathy. I don't care if your children play with dolls, footballs, or an Easy Bake oven and no matter the gender as long as they are happy and loved for who they are.
Once more, we could have a completely off topic discussion on how societies influence these types of things from birth onwards, but I will stop here as it isn't appropriate for the thread. I'm on an off topic roll this weekend it seems.

But what's the tree climbing situation?

[troph 24417]

It’s pretty easy to tell the boys are boys and girls are girls, except when the boys are girls and the girls are boys. Can’t have that, even if they plead for their lives. 
 

can’t have it both ways, well I guess you can parents are in charge, oh wait, unless their boys are girls or their girls are boys, then nope, someone else needs to be in charge.

did I get that right?

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by troph

[troph 24417]

11 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

We were off on a tangent from an anecdotal story upthread about the sexuality of a student in my daughters class. I suppose it could be tied into gender issues of the same age group, but I don’t even have anything anecdotal on that.   I can’t begin to explain to you how different my experience with our school is than @atomheartbevo experience upthread.  

[troph 24417]

14 minutes ago, tchookem said:

2 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Dolls. Your sons play with dolls. NTTAWWT.
When Hasbro debuted GI Joe their marketing team coined the term "action figure' because they figured boys (read: Men) would not purchase dolls.
This is a doll. Note the use of the word 'action' for each figure:

 
Here is a Barbie collection from the same era:

Ken is a lover not a fighter. Love is an action, too and I would argue more important than fighting.
 
Seriously and before someone brings out all the current doll options available, once the 'action figures' became popular, males and especially the males who collected these dolls came up with all sorts of definitions and requirements to distinguish their 'action figures' from 'dolls,' because the male ego is rather fragile apparently.
In one of the stranger cases that seems to augment the extra prices that females pay for existing, there was a case as recently as 2003 where a toy company argued that its 'action figures' were nonhuman and therefore toys and not dolls. Dolls, you see,  have double the tariff rate.
 
[mention=210]mchookem[/mention]'s gif was appropriate.
I played with Barbie's, G.I. Joes, a baby with a high chair my dad made, Hot Wheels (massive fan of those--the single tracks laid side by side so you could race models ), Tonka trucks, and even had a very old, somewhat fragile DX (maybe it was Texaco?) gas station model that my dad had found that was so cool (working garage doors and little bitty pumps so you could drive your car, gas it up and work on it!) but sadly it went missing at some point (likely a garage sale).
In other words as has been pointed out ad infinitum, your worldview could use a little more empathy. I don't care if your children play with dolls, footballs, or an Easy Bake oven and no matter the gender as long as they are happy and loved for who they are.
Once more, we could have a completely off topic discussion on how societies influence these types of things from birth onwards, but I will stop here as it isn't appropriate for the thread. I'm on an off topic roll this weekend it seems.

But what's the tree climbing situation?

On the Tomboy to Butch lesbian spectrum, unless they out grow it by 14 then just they are going to be a cool straight woman later in life who likes beer and football and gives blowjobs at half time or if they move to tool belts and pickup trucks at 16 definitely trans. It’s in the research. 

[Poe It Up 126]

1 hour ago, troph said:

It’s pretty easy to tell the boys are boys and girls are girls, except when the boys are girls and the girls are boys. Can’t have that, even if they plead for their lives. 
 

can’t have it both ways, well I guess you can parents are in charge, oh wait, unless their boys are girls or their girls are boys, then nope, someone else needs to be in charge.

did I get that right?

 

My point wasn’t that boys can’t act like girls and vice versa, it’s that as a parent it can’t be that surprising when a child comes out as gay or trans. If they’re paying attention at least. 

[safe sex 11621]

You're wrong, and you're out of your element and really should just sit in the corner and listen.

[royiv 9112]

27 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

My point wasn’t that boys can’t act like girls and vice versa, it’s that as a parent it can’t be that surprising when a child comes out as gay or trans. If they’re paying attention at least. 

Says the guy who claims that there aren't any gay people in his community. I don't think you're qualified to espouse any wisdom on this thread.

[NAVY 6735]

We’re all just bits of earth in the micro and star dust in the macro. Fuck who you wanna fuck and dress how you wanna dress

I’m down for peeps finding happiness in their own private business 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by NAVY

[fattyflattie 4636]

46 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

My point wasn’t that boys can’t act like girls and vice versa, it’s that as a parent it can’t be that surprising when a child comes out as gay or trans. If they’re paying attention at least. 

Disagree. Our resident trans poster does shitloads of “guy” shit. Check the hobbies board.  Easily more than most of my neighbors’ husbands. 

[WhatTheBuck 28685]

6 minutes ago, NAVY said:

We’re all just bits of earth in the micro and star dust in the macro. Fuck who you wanna fuck and dress how you wanna dress

I’m down for peeps finding happiness in their own private business 

Do what you wanna
Do what you will
Just don't mess up
Your neighbor's thrill
'N when you pay the bill
Kindly leave a little tip
And help the next poor sucker
On his one way trip

 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

You're wrong, and you're out of your element and really should just sit in the corner and listen.

I am shocked…shocked I tell you, that our resident expert in LGBT+ matters thinks that all gays are effeminate.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

2 hours ago, tchookem said:

But what's the tree climbing situation?

Depends. Are you going to hug the tree or cut your initials in it prior to the climb?

[WhatTheBuck 28685]

[mchookem 15732]

1 hour ago, Patricio Swayze said:

I am shocked…shocked I tell you, that our resident expert in LGBT+ matters thinks that all gays are effeminate.

fafo lol

[Poe It Up 126]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Disagree. Our resident trans poster does shitloads of “guy” shit. Check the hobbies board.  Easily more than most of my neighbors’ husbands. 

There’s always exceptions to any rule. 

 

[Poe It Up 126]

2 hours ago, royiv said:

Says the guy who claims that there aren't any gay people in his community. I don't think you're qualified to espouse any wisdom on this thread.

I never said that, so you’re swinging at air. 

[Poe It Up 126]

2 hours ago, safe sex said:

You're wrong, and you're out of your element and really should just sit in the corner and listen.

Not only no, but hell no. 

[Sawbonz 27111]

3 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

My point wasn’t that boys can’t act like girls and vice versa, it’s that as a parent it can’t be that surprising when a child comes out as gay or trans. If they’re paying attention at least. 

If they sense their parents want them to be a certain way, and they have a certain type of parent, a child will hide it

[royiv 9112]

1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

I never said that, so you’re swinging at air. 

Nope. You've literally said there are no gay people in your little corner of Montgomery County. Not going to go find it, but you've absolutely made that claim you bigoted piece of trash. 

[StassneyHorn 6497]

Poe could just download Grindr , screenshot, and find out.

Edited February 12, 2023 by StassneyHorn

[Poe It Up 126]

23 minutes ago, royiv said:

Nope. You've literally said there are no gay people in your little corner of Montgomery County. Not going to go find it, but you've absolutely made that claim you bigoted piece of trash. 

I think you don’t fully grasp what literally means. 

 

18 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Poe could just download Grindr , screenshot, and find out.

Holy shit, now that would be hilarious. 

[TwiceHorn 30966]

All this exemplifies why I have hated the culture war for quite some time and was becoming very uneasy with the Republican Party before Trump absolutely tore it for me.

I do indeed believe that our culture is messed up.  We lack a national sense of community, but it's not because we don't have more cis-hetero traditional couples raising kids according to "family" "Judeo-Christian" values.

It's this kind of fomenting distrust and dislike among segments of the population for purely political purposes that is fucking up our sense of community.  This is a medical and psychological issue that is comparatively rare and intensely personal for the families involved.  It's no one else's fucking business, and certainly not the state's or politicians.

The sense of community was always better when it was just a "white community" and a "black community," but that was wrong, and we should be striving to increase community among all and not further divisions.  That's going to require empathy and this most certainly is not that.

This shouldn't even be political.  But here we are.  God help us.

Edited February 12, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[troph 24417]

He gets us… culture wars over, last one out turn off the lights. 

 

[YChang 3424]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

All this exemplifies why I have hated the culture war for quite some time and was becoming very uneasy with the Republican Party before Trump absolutely tore it for me.

I do indeed believe that our culture is messed up.  We lack a national sense of community, but it's not because we don't have more cis-hetero traditional couples raising kids according to "family" "Judeo-Christian" values.

It’s ok. The Jesus gets us ads will fix all this pronto!

[mchookem 15732]

7 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

All this exemplifies why I have hated the culture war for quite some time and was becoming very uneasy with the Republican Party before Trump absolutely tore it for me.

I do indeed believe that our culture is messed up.  We lack a national sense of community, but it's not because we don't have more cis-hetero traditional couples raising kids according to "family" "Judeo-Christian" values.

It's this kind of fomenting distrust and dislike among segments of the population for purely political purposes that is fucking up our sense of community.  This is a medical and psychological issue that is comparatively rare and intensely personal for the families involved.  It's no one else's fucking business, and certainly not the state's or politicians.

The sense of community was always better when it was just a "white community" and a "black community," but that was wrong, and we should be striving to increase community among all and not further divisions.  That's going to require empathy and this most certainly is not that.

This shouldn't even be political.  But here we are.  God help us.

 

[YGIFS 19445]

21 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

It’s not just toys. It’s the way they interact with the toys and the activities they enjoy, it’s very, very different. My boys love to fight with them and set up elaborate battles between them, my daughter never did anything resembling that. They want to wrestle and she wants to color instead. Sure, they would occasionally play dress up to appease her and she would do the same, but it wasn’t what they were drawn towards. 

My two daughters love playing with my old G.I. Joe guys, matchbox cars, and model trains.  They also love playing princess, playing Barbies, and magna-dolls.  Toys are a spectrum just like everything else.  One day they're playing in the mud with me and wrestling one another, the next day they can't be bothered to pickup anything bigger than a spoon lest their freshly painted nails get messed up.  

kids choose their toys based on three factors:  what is marketed towards them, what their friends play with, and what their parents buy them.  Gender and Sexuality never occur to them.  

[Poe It Up 126]

1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

My two daughters love playing with my old G.I. Joe guys, matchbox cars, and model trains.  They also love playing princess, playing Barbies, and magna-dolls.  Toys are a spectrum just like everything else.  One day they're playing in the mud with me and wrestling one another, the next day they can't be bothered to pickup anything bigger than a spoon lest their freshly painted nails get messed up.  

kids choose their toys based on three factors:  what is marketed towards them, what their friends play with, and what their parents buy them.  Gender and Sexuality never occur to them.  

Sexuality, no. Gender, yes. Having the privilege of raising both, they’re keenly aware they’re different. It’s fascinating to watch.

I also think that people forget at that young age that a rock and a stick are toys to them. When their imaginations get to work, the differences really start to show themselves. I know people want to believe children are this blank slate, it’s just not reality. 

[YGIFS 19445]

3 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Sexuality, no. Gender, yes. Having the privilege of raising both, they’re keenly aware they’re different. It’s fascinating to watch.

I also think that people forget at that young age that a rock and a stick are toys to them. When their imaginations get to work, the differences really start to show themselves. I know people want to believe children are this blank slate, it’s just not reality. 

Sexuality isn't a spectrum?  I don't mean sex of the baby at birth, I mean expressed human sexuality as a young adult.  Like what kind of "partners" they're into, what type of sex, turn-ons, etc.  

You're right though, people do tend to think of kids as blank slates that we write all this shit "on to", when they come off the factory floor with a lot of pre-loaded software to begin with.  my wife's parents are very traditionalist Catholics from the Great Plains.  Boys play with trucks, girls play with dolls with zero crossover.  Whenever they come to visit, grandma tries to play dolls in the kitchen with them.  After the girls are done playing trains and riding scooters, they'll play a few minutes of dolls with her but the dolls don't play "house", they go camping or swimming or exploring nature.  I know there's part of them that worries their two granddaughters are "tomboys" or not "Ladylike" enough. 

To our mutually agreed upon point about children not being blank slates.  Some of that preloaded manufacturer software is sexual preferences and gender identification; although my two won't likely reach those points of inflection for many more years (7 and 4).  Not saying you, but a huge chunk of this country thinks that if one of my daughters turns out to be a lesbian, or bi, or gender fluid...it'll be because we let them do "boyish" stuff as little kids.  And so they/she adapted their behavior and preferences to fit into the more masculine trajectory we foisted upon them.  Hence, the Mr. Potato head gender scandal from a few years back. 

Mother Nature which has seen fit to almost effortlessly keep our egg-bearing female population right at 50% for 100,000 years with no outside manipulation.  Allowing for enough procreation to create 70 billion people.  She's suddenly gonna be thwarted by too many kids going gay or trans because of M&M's commercials?  Somehow I doubt that.  Nature has always accounted for statistical outliers.  2% of the population can be gay, 2% can be trans, or both.  Doesn't effect anybody else.  Except when get depressed and kill themselves, then it ruins entire families for a generation or two.  So maybe we just leave 'em alone?  I personally think different is fun.  The most boring people I know think they're the most interesting.  It's like Dunning-Krueger but for personalities.  

[Poe It Up 126]

15 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Sexuality isn't a spectrum?  I don't mean sex of the baby at birth, I mean expressed human sexuality as a young adult.  Like what kind of "partners" they're into, what type of sex, turn-ons, etc.  

You're right though, people do tend to think of kids as blank slates that we write all this shit "on to", when they come off the factory floor with a lot of pre-loaded software to begin with.  my wife's parents are very traditionalist Catholics from the Great Plains.  Boys play with trucks, girls play with dolls with zero crossover.  Whenever they come to visit, grandma tries to play dolls in the kitchen with them.  After the girls are done playing trains and riding scooters, they'll play a few minutes of dolls with her but the dolls don't play "house", they go camping or swimming or exploring nature.  I know there's part of them that worries their two granddaughters are "tomboys" or not "Ladylike" enough. 

To our mutually agreed upon point about children not being blank slates.  Some of that preloaded manufacturer software is sexual preferences and gender identification; although my two won't likely reach those points of inflection for many more years (7 and 4).  Not saying you, but a huge chunk of this country thinks that if one of my daughters turns out to be a lesbian, or bi, or gender fluid...it'll be because we let them do "boyish" stuff as little kids.  And so they/she adapted their behavior and preferences to fit into the more masculine trajectory we foisted upon them.  Hence, the Mr. Potato head gender scandal from a few years back. 

Mother Nature which has seen fit to almost effortlessly keep our egg-bearing female population right at 50% for 100,000 years with no outside manipulation.  Allowing for enough procreation to create 70 billion people.  She's suddenly gonna be thwarted by too many kids going gay or trans because of M&M's commercials?  Somehow I doubt that.  Nature has always accounted for statistical outliers.  2% of the population can be gay, 2% can be trans, or both.  Doesn't effect anybody else.  Except when get depressed and kill themselves, then it ruins entire families for a generation or two.  So maybe we just leave 'em alone?  I personally think different is fun.  The most boring people I know think they're the most interesting.  It's like Dunning-Krueger but for personalities.  

It definitely is a tiny percentage of the population, which makes the over-saturation of that demographic in children’s shows odd. But I’m sure it will regress to the mean in the near future.
 

I’m all for leaving them alone, the most I’ll ever do is discuss the topic on a political sub forum on a website dedicated to Texas sports.

[YGIFS 19445]

2 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

It definitely is a tiny percentage of the population, which makes the over-saturation of that demographic in children’s shows odd. But I’m sure it will regress to the mean in the near future.
 

I’m all for leaving them alone, the most I’ll ever do is discuss the topic on a political sub forum on a website dedicated to Texas sports.

Hey, we're nothing if not easily sidetracked on here.  I promise you 80% of this website has ADD in real life.  

to your first point, I think it is an over-correction to some extent.  4000 years of written texts, 2000 years of published music, 150 years of photographs, 100 years of movies, 80 years of TV, 40 years of video games, first 20 years of the internet...and like 9 mentions of gay or trans. I'm fine with them over-compensating right now so long as it fits the story/narrative.  I don't give a shit if Disney puts gay characters or trans adults in their movies, it's their story...they own it.  They can do whatever they want.  I mean, when you start doing it with historical figures, I think it's irresponsible.  But it doesn't really happen so I'm not worried.  If they end up making a historical fiction movie about MLK as trans or Harvey Milk as straight or Babe Ruth as gay...we'd have a legit beef.  But i don't see that happening since nobody cares about history anymore anyway.  

The greatest artistic liberty ever taken with a historical figure has to be Jesus Christ.  Who conveniently shows up in every story as an English speaking White guy.  Once we rectify that, I'll be happy to join the battle to combat "wokeness" in children's literature.  

[royiv 9112]

37 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

The most boring people I know think they're the most interesting.

Uh oh, are you becoming self aware?

['stache 21724]

20 hours ago, NAVY said:

We’re all just bits of earth in the micro and star dust in the macro. Fuck who you wanna fuck and dress how you wanna dress

I’m down for peeps finding happiness in their own private business 

 

I'll never understand why this isn't good enough for everyone. It's the primary reasons that I think religion is a scourge on society. Without sky daddy telling them that gays or trans are icky, what other possible reason is there to care about how other people live their lives?

[YGIFS 19445]

Oh, I'm extremely boring and I know it.  Why I don't bother people IRL.  That's where you come in, royiv   

After eating my crazy super bowl meal which was a chicken caesar salad, I fell asleep during the halftime show because I had to get up so early to help make donuts for our church faith formation group.  15 years ago on Super Bowl Sunday, I was doing drugs with Mick Jones of the Clash at a bar on West Sixth.  Boring is better for me.  At least now anyways.