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DalTxHornFan

DalTxHornFan 3097

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19 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Check out this shit. It’s right next to the cat boxes in schools you dumb fuck

IDK.  I've heard recently that we should follow the science on difficult issues.  Where does that come down on this issue?  Thanks!

Edited by DalTxHornFan
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troph
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Colorado making a hard sell for us. Not sure the NIL package they’ll offer but the official visit was off the charts.        

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36 years ago I was 11. One fall afternoon walking home from school, I took a slight detour and found myself standing under a bridge smoking a cigarette I stole from my neighbors parents. It was a Bens

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Welp, if you see a viral video going around of a Black guy in a "Hook 'Em Horns" Nike t-shirt yelling at the radical conservative protestors at the Art Institute of Chicago today who were "protesting"

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Willfully Horn

Willfully Horn 7998

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6 hours ago, Anastasis said:

This begs the question. You don’t necessarily need random assignment and a placebo control. Of course that would be gold standard. But other reference controls could  provide context. That NEJM article that you didn’t read doesn’t really demonstrate anything in terms of rigorous evidence. Open label uncontrolled and unblinded. Numerous points for introduction of research bias. It’s amazing that a journal with fairly high standards as far as clinical data goes would bow to ideology over methodology. But here we are. We’re talking about given meds that in other setting are considered chemical castration, and others that involve exogenous hormone supplementation. Without compelling evidence that meets medical standards. This is crazy stuff. But it gets glossed over because some people love confirmation bias and in this case ideology trumps fundamentals of evidence based medicine. 

First, thanks for expanding on what you meant by control groups; I am always grateful to learn more.

That said, you are tilting at windmills, to put it kindly, and have resorted to hyperbole. Not the castration comparison, though that is a non rigorously studied and nebulous conclusion  depending on the time frame involved, but your “crazy” characterization. Innovation is a species long technique, and individuals, or parents intent on protecting their kids, trying to solve life issues, using what knowledge is available, is exactly what sane humans do. 
 

The study I have posted was, at the time, current news. It is far from the only study concluding that gender affirming care leads to improvement in the lives of the transgendered community. I will link other reports that reach the same conclusion, but at some point you ought admit that you, and other like minded dissenters have no support other than Heritage level publications. IOW, you argue that your doubts are more trustworthy than the conclusions of the institutions found below, and you imply peer review suffers the same failings as the report authors.  Again, to put it gently, hyperbole.

Except you frame these reports in terms of popular bias. The “everyone else is wrong, is lying, and is putting out fake news for a political, or cultural, purpose” narrative is as weak an argument as I have ever heard from you.  Congrats on your NEJM subscription and best of luck on your insecurity issues.


https://www.columbiapsychiatry.org/news/gender-affirming-care-saves-lives

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2674039

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-the-science-on-gender-affirming-care-for-transgender-kids-really-shows/

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789433
 

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/01/mental-health-hormone-treatment-transgender-people.html

 

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troph

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11 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

IDK how her particular situation would have been dealt with.  The exponential increase in gender dysphoria diagnoses in the past 20 years or so does give me pause.

36 years ago I was 11. One fall afternoon walking home from school, I took a slight detour and found myself standing under a bridge smoking a cigarette I stole from my neighbors parents. It was a Benson & Hedges because they were sophisticated like that. Emotionally hollow, I had friends, I played sports and yet no one knew me. I cried as I sank down against the concrete wall until I slid all the way into the ground. Sitting in the dark, my back up against a cold concrete wall, I sank further. There were the faint sounds of cars going by above. Finally my external reality matched my inside, in a dark, cold, lonely place with the world just going by. Then I said it. 11 years old, “I want to be a girl.” Before the Southern Baptists come out and scream, “see, it’s a choice!!” I must say those are the words I muttered at a time when I had no idea what was what. There was no medical protocol, and if I said it to an adult I would either be patted on the head or sent for psych evaluation at the hospital. I finished my cigarette and put it out and walked home. A latch key kid at the time I was able to maintain the silence and solitude for a few more hours. Nothing had changed. Weeks maybe months later, I was in my room thumbing through the pages of my wall to wall set of encyclopedia Britannica volumes and by happenstance I was in the “T” volume. Usually stopping on countries to read and learn about their geography I just kept flipping pages until my eye caught a quarter page entry for “transsexuals”. I read about Christine Jorgensen who was “once a man and underwent sex reassignment surgery to become a woman” and I immediately knew who I was. I found the light! I kept reading and the last paragraph said most “transsexuals” live in big cities like New York or San Fransisco and then the light flickered and disappeared. This unlucky suburban trans kid from Texas had no real way to make it to New York or San Fransisco as an 11 year old. So I closed the book, and cried myself to sleep. I didn’t tell anyone - not a soul - for nearly two more decades. 

that’s your typical gender dysphoria diagnosis more than 20 years ago. 

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10 hours ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

It's much better if trans people stay confused, closeted, and stigmatized until late in life or forever, so they have to try to be people they aren't and screw up marriages, families, etc. just like it's always been (and the gays too), instead of having awareness and being allowed to figure it out when they're much younger and can avoid the devastating outcomes that befall untreated trans folks. 

Diagnosing trans kids saves lives, the lives of others who have their lives upended too when it all comes to a head later in life when the trans person has autonomy and runs out of experiments to try and alleviate the sound of the chain saw in their mind that just never went away. 
 

there’s a lot of attention given to the trans woman some positive and some negative in all of these discussions but the devestation of others is largely forgotten. Diagnosing trans kids will protect more than just those kids.  

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YChang

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Since one anecdotal story is all it seems to form some people's opinion. Well, this is my friend's daughter Alex. I first met her when she was maybe around 10? She was also my first exposure into even learning about transgender kids. To me she always seem to be a happy kid that just knew and felt comfortable as a girl. And lucky for her had really loving supportive parents. 

DalTxHornFan, it's one thing to be concerned about the health and well being of kids going through these procedure. But where's your humanity in all this? There's nothing nefarious about this. You seem to mock instead of trying to empathize what these kids may be going through. And I'm totally judging and maybe it's just be your internet persona, but your world seems really small and limited. 

 

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Hank Kingsley

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I have an Iranian uncle that transitioned sometime back in the early 80's. That side of my family loves him dearly, they don't really talk about it, and it's hard to get much info. He lives in Virginia and I rarely see him but I know he's very happy. 

But the fucking GUTS it took for him to do that back then. Especially as an Iranian. I've always admired him. 

 

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'stache

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Oh shit, my 10 year old daughter also likes climbing trees, playing video games, wearing pants, and had short hair for a little while. I'm glad I know now not to take her to a doctor any time soon or they might try and sew a dick on her.

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DalTxHornFan

DalTxHornFan 3097

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5 hours ago, troph said:

36 years ago I was 11. One fall afternoon walking home from school, I took a slight detour and found myself standing under a bridge smoking a cigarette I stole from my neighbors parents. It was a Benson & Hedges because they were sophisticated like that. Emotionally hollow, I had friends, I played sports and yet no one knew me. I cried as I sank down against the concrete wall until I slid all the way into the ground. Sitting in the dark, my back up against a cold concrete wall, I sank further. There were the faint sounds of cars going by above. Finally my external reality matched my inside, in a dark, cold, lonely place with the world just going by. Then I said it. 11 years old, “I want to be a girl.” Before the Southern Baptists come out and scream, “see, it’s a choice!!” I must say those are the words I muttered at a time when I had no idea what was what. There was no medical protocol, and if I said it to an adult I would either be patted on the head or sent for psych evaluation at the hospital. I finished my cigarette and put it out and walked home. A latch key kid at the time I was able to maintain the silence and solitude for a few more hours. Nothing had changed. Weeks maybe months later, I was in my room thumbing through the pages of my wall to wall set of encyclopedia Britannica volumes and by happenstance I was in the “T” volume. Usually stopping on countries to read and learn about their geography I just kept flipping pages until my eye caught a quarter page entry for “transsexuals”. I read about Christine Jorgensen who was “once a man and underwent sex reassignment surgery to become a woman” and I immediately knew who I was. I found the light! I kept reading and the last paragraph said most “transsexuals” live in big cities like New York or San Fransisco and then the light flickered and disappeared. This unlucky suburban trans kid from Texas had no real way to make it to New York or San Fransisco as an 11 year old. So I closed the book, and cried myself to sleep. I didn’t tell anyone - not a soul - for nearly two more decades. 

that’s your typical gender dysphoria diagnosis more than 20 years ago. 

I have no brief with you, Troph.  Live your best life.

But doesn't the idea of your boys making irreversible lifetime decisions before they are able to legally drink, smoke, drive, vote, or even get a tattoo trouble you a bit?

 

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safe sex

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5 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

This is all so very new and the rules we’re supposed to play by are constantly changing. We’ll get there, but there will always be parents that refuse to let their child make an irreversible decision like this one. I know I’m one. 

No shit. 

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Patricio Swayze

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I have no brief with you, Troph.  Live your best life.
But doesn't the idea of your boys making irreversible lifetime decisions before they are able to drink, smoke, drive, vote, or even get a tattoo trouble you a bit?
 

You keep on implying that these decisions are made on a whim. No discussion between parent, child, doctor. No evaluations. Just show up at the doctor’s office, tell them your daughter is climbing trees, doc says “we can’t have that!” And injects her with hormones.

That’s how you come across.
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troph

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5 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I have no brief with you, Troph.  Live your best life.

But doesn't the idea of your boys making irreversible lifetime decisions before they are able to legally drink, smoke, drive, vote, or even get a tattoo trouble you a bit?

 

I have a problem with you, and that's what this is about.

If I could have come out to my parents at 11, I would have. If I could have started transition at 11, I would have.  I'm lucky I didn't kill myself. I had suicidal thoughts often. But I was mentally tough, probably top 1% of mental toughness. That gauntlet and the destruction heaped on families with midlife transitions aren't mandatory anymore and we can save lives and much heartache by doing the right thing.  a kid wearing a dress and going by a girl's name at 6 harms NO ONE. A 14 year old who has been consistently identifying with the gender opposite of their birth for 6 years knows and should be given blockers. It harms NO ONE. Making you feel good as a gate keeper for other families is not on anyone's priority list here and it shouldn't be on yours. If it doesn't impact your family, just back off.

 

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17 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

This is all so very new and the rules we’re supposed to play by are constantly changing. We’ll get there, but there will always be parents that refuse to let their child make an irreversible decision like this one. I know I’m one. 

dad is that you?

10 minutes ago, safe sex said:

If you have a trans child, they will hate you, despise you, and leave you in the dust once they escape you

see other posts of mine where my father is dead to me.

2 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Parents have to make decisions based on what’s best for their child, not how much their child will like them. 

my father thinks trans people are the spawn of satan. he will die alone and without his kids.

 

you're just dead ass wrong, thankfully (hopefully) your kids aren't trans because I wouldn't wish a trans kid on you (for their sake) for anything.

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DalTxHornFan

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21 minutes ago, troph said:

I have a problem with you, and that's what this is about.

If I could have come out to my parents at 11, I would have. If I could have started transition at 11, I would have.  I'm lucky I didn't kill myself. I had suicidal thoughts often. But I was mentally tough, probably top 1% of mental toughness. That gauntlet and the destruction heaped on families with midlife transitions aren't mandatory anymore and we can save lives and much heartache by doing the right thing.  a kid wearing a dress and going by a girl's name at 6 harms NO ONE. A 14 year old who has been consistently identifying with the gender opposite of their birth for 6 years knows and should be given blockers. It harms NO ONE. Making you feel good as a gate keeper for other families is not on anyone's priority list here and it shouldn't be on yours. If it doesn't impact your family, just back off.

 

Cool.  But as a lawyer, I would expect that you understand why minors lack legal standing (better said, capacity).

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Poe It Up

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1 minute ago, troph said:

dad is that you?

see other posts of mine where my father is dead to me.

my father thinks trans people are the spawn of satan. he will die alone and without his kids.

 

you're just dead ass wrong, thankfully (hopefully) your kids aren't trans because I wouldn't wish a trans kid on you (for their sake) for anything.

I don’t hate anyone, it’s too much energy. But I’m not going to destroy my child’s reproductive health at 10 either. Those hormones have medical risks that can cause serious health issues. It’s far too much risk and I hope they would understand my reasoning. If not, fine. I’ll love them anyway. 

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DalTxHornFan

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1 minute ago, Patricio Swayze said:


So then you agree that parents, along with the child and doctor are the ones that should be making that decision? Not the small republican government. Not other parents.

I generally agree, but there is a legal notion related to the "standard of care" that most licensed professionals are obligated to abide by.

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DalTxHornFan

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1 minute ago, Patricio Swayze said:


Obligated in what way?

Geez, that is a basic legal doctrine. People with professional licenses have a higher duty.

standard of care

n. the watchfulness, attention, caution and prudence that a reasonable person in the circumstances would exercise. If a person's actions do not meet this standard of care, then his/her acts fail to meet the duty of care which all people (supposedly) have toward others. Failure to meet the standard is negligence, and any damages resulting therefrom may be claimed in a lawsuit by the injured party. The problem is that the "standard" is often a subjective issue upon which reasonable people can differ.

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Patricio Swayze

Patricio Swayze 17058

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Geez, that is a basic legal doctrine. People with professional licenses have a higher duty.
standard of care

n. the watchfulness, attention, caution and prudence that a reasonable person in the circumstances would exercise. If a person's actions do not meet this standard of care, then his/her acts fail to meet the duty of care which all people (supposedly) have toward others. Failure to meet the standard is negligence, and any damages resulting therefrom may be claimed in a lawsuit by the injured party. The problem is that the "standard" is often a subjective issue upon which reasonable people can differ.


Do you believe the current Texas law is right? So on the opposite end of that obligation, do you think parents that try to help their kids with GAC should be charged with child abuse?
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Hank Kingsley

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25 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

This is all so very new and the rules we’re supposed to play by are constantly changing. We’ll get there, but there will always be parents that refuse to let their child make an irreversible decision like this one. I know I’m one. 

I have a different way of looking at it. Since the beginnings of our species, there are people that deep down identified as the opposite sex. None of this is new. It's been around forever. What's new is openly discussing it and the rise of people being able to make their transitions successfully. 

A good parent raises their child. They listen to their child. They trust their child. I get that it can be very difficult for a parent to go through a transition process, but how fucking hard do you think it is for the kid??? Its. Not. About. You. 

We all have our secrets. I have incredible respect for people that are brave enough to truly find and be themselves. The freedom and self-empowerment that we all should be striving for. 

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troph

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22 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Cool.  But as a lawyer, I would expect that you understand why minors lack legal standing (better said, capacity).

no shit, that's why parents are there with doctors, therapists, and more. no one is advocating parents be removed from decision making.  we are advocating Dan Patrick, Ken Paxton and Greg Abbott be removed from my family's decision making. this isn't hard. stop being obtuse.

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DalTxHornFan

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2 minutes ago, troph said:

no shit, that's why parents are there with doctors, therapists, and more. no one is advocating parents be removed from decision making.  we are advocating Dan Patrick, Ken Paxton and Greg Abbott be removed from my family's decision making. this isn't hard. stop being obtuse.

With respect, I do think that there have been many examples of schools, courts, and child protective services-type agencies intervening in these decisions.

But I totally agree with you -- they should not. 

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wait so every credible organization defines the standard of care as providing GAC on a continuum - one that starts with little intervention and slowly builds over time.  yet people here want to say that's wrong and then say doctors and professionals who engage in the standard of care are violating their duties with respect to the standard of care.

how fucked up are your minds man?

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DalTxHornFan

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11 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I have a different way of looking at it. Since the beginnings of our species, there are people that deep down identified as the opposite sex. None of this is new. It's been around forever. What's new is openly discussing it and the rise of people being able to make their transitions successfully. 

A good parent raises their child. They listen to their child. They trust their child. I get that it can be very difficult for a parent to go through a transition process, but how fucking hard do you think it is for the kid??? Its. Not. About. You. 

We all have our secrets. I have incredible respect for people that are brave enough to truly find and be themselves. The freedom and self-empowerment that we all should be striving for. 

Agree totally.  I was the first "out" Republican in my family since Reconstruction.  I supported Nixon in 1968.  My Mother went to her grave without forgiving me for that.

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Poe It Up

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Posted
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6 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I have a different way of looking at it. Since the beginnings of our species, there are people that deep down identified as the opposite sex. None of this is new. It's been around forever. What's new is openly discussing it and the rise of people being able to make their transitions successfully. 

A good parent raises their child. They listen to their child. They trust their child. I get that it can be very difficult for a parent to go through a transition process, but how fucking hard do you think it is for the kid??? Its. Not. About. You. 

We all have our secrets. I have incredible respect for people that are brave enough to truly find and be themselves. The freedom and self-empowerment that we all should be striving for. 

It’s important to listen and be empathetic. Trust? Well, let’s just say it depends on the situation. The question is how much physical health is one willing to sacrifice for their mental health? For many, the cost is too great. 

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1 minute ago, DalTxHornFan said:

With respect, I do think that there have been many examples of schools, courts, and child protective services-type agencies intervening in these decisions.

But I totally agree with you -- they should not. 

you realize the onslaught of intervention is actually the opposite of what you think it is.  parents of trans kids are fleeing texas not because agencies are forcing transition and they oppose it, they are fleeing Texas because Texas is actively policing families who support their trans kids.

geez.

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Captainant

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Posted
6 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

With respect, I do think that there have been many examples of schools, courts, and child protective services-type agencies intervening in these decisions.

But I totally agree with you -- they should not. 

If you feel this way, you should validate your feelings with data and facts before you expect other people to take you seriously. You're hiding your hate behind faux intellectualism. 

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DalTxHornFan

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13 minutes ago, Captainant said:

If you feel this way, you should validate your feelings with data and facts before you expect other people to take you seriously. You're hiding your hate behind faux intellectualism. 

Is your Google not working?

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Mar 10, 2022 — Therefore, school personnel should not disclose information that may reveal a student's transgender status or gender-nonconforming presentation ...
Sep 21, 2022 — ... that would withhold federal funding from public elementary and middle schools that hide students' gender transitions from their parents.
 
 
 
 
Sep 15, 2022 — Sweetwater School Board Defends Teachers Hiding Students' Transgender Status From Parents ... A Wyoming school board on Monday defended its ...
Jul 26, 2022 — As MSDE and Montgomery County Public Schools (MCPS) – the largest school district in Maryland – both indicate, it is up to transgender and ...
mqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEFCLIBEGQ&rs=AMz
 
 
 
 
Parents are claiming a Virginia school district is indoctrinating their children into transgender ideology, and they're taking their case to ...
YouTube · CBN News · Jul 29, 2022
Jan 25, 2023 — Parents sued a Wisconsin school district over its “Gender Support Plan” that allegedly hides a student's transgender status from their ...
Aug 5, 2022 — “Indeed, the policy openly encourages children to deceive their parents by hiding the name and pronouns that they are using at school.”.
Aug 3, 2022 — In April, the Linn-Mar Community School District outside Cedar Rapids, ... gender identity without any parental involvement and to then hide ...
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Poe It Up

Poe It Up 126

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Those questions should be discussed between the kid, parents, and their doctors. It's nobody else's business. 

 

 

That’s a question a child lacks the appropriate life experience to answer. They’d eat skittles for every meal if allowed. 

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29338

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

Parents have to make decisions based on what’s best for their child, not how much their child will like them. 

Driving your kid to suicide because they're not exactly how you want them to be isn't what's best for your kid.

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DalTxHornFan

DalTxHornFan 3097

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Driving your kid to suicide because they're not exactly how you want them to be isn't what's best for your kid.

Speaking of "show your work" -- where is all of this data regarding suicides related to kids with trans issues?  Those that didn't transition.  Those that did.  Maybe just those who were troubled kids?

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Poe It Up

Poe It Up 126

Posted
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3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Driving your kid to suicide because they're not exactly how you want them to be isn't what's best for your kid.

One would have to steel themself against that likelihood regardless of parental decisions. The suicide rate in that community is very high. Still, if your decisions are solely based on the probability of suicide, you’re not a parent, you’re a hostage. 

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Patricio Swayze

Patricio Swayze 17058

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Posted
Imagine thinking that you'd rather your child kill themselves than transition. Imagine what a piece of shit you'd have to be

This thread has been eye opening and sad. Truly. I mean, I kind of expected Poe’s stance, he doesn’t hide his disapproval. Hell, he can’t even see men on tv kiss without having to fast forward. As if being gay is contagious.

Just really sad.
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Poe It Up

Poe It Up 126

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2 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Imagine thinking that you'd rather your child kill themselves than transition. Imagine what a piece of shit you'd have to be

Do you have children? Not to be rude, but it sounds like you have zero understanding of how they operate. 

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