We got any Bowlers up in here?

[Pogo 284]

Speaking of balls, where do they factor in to all this?  Performance-level balls are actually pretty porous.  Scuffing with 360-4000 grit pads or polishing can make them more or less so.  The ball wants to dig into the oil and grip the lane in order to hook into the pins.  In doing so, you will notice oil rings on the ball after every shot.  Each shot picks up a tiny amount of oil.  That's why people wipe off their ball before every shot.  If you throw enough shots in the same spot and pick up enough oil, your ball is going to start hooking more.  This is called transition of the oil pattern.  When you see this start to happen, you have to adjust.  There are 39 boards on a lane.  We talk about adjustments in moving your feet or your target in terms of boards, ie. I might move my feet 2 boards left and my target 1 board.  In the last few years, the PBA has been putting dye in the oil on TV shows so you can kind of see what they're bowling on and how it changes.

Every ball has a different surface manufactured at a specific aggressiveness for different lane conditions.  Figuring out which ball to use and where to aim with it is necessary to throw strikes.  In addition, the cores of balls are very different and can be made to help the ball hook sooner, later, more, or less.  Where the holes are drilled can also have an effect.  If you could see the center of gravity (CG) of a ball as it's rolling down the lane, it would be wobbling.  Balls are meant to be drilled off of it's stable axis.  As it's rolling, it's looking for that stable axis.  It's storing the energy you put into it until it hits that stable axis, ideally as it hits the part of the lane with no/less oil. It then hooks hard and hits the pins with more power.  Think of it like hitting a wedge with with a bunch of backspin.  Nothing happens when there's no friction (golf ball in air, bowling ball skidding through oil), but the instant it hits friction, both are going to go the direction of the spin.

These other 2 things (getting lined up with the right ball/target and understanding, managing, and even anticipating transition) are just as important, if not more so, to high scores as being fundamentally sound with your approach.

First image is a shot of the blue oil after a TV show.  You can see the shape it started out as, but also where the traffic was and the oil is worn out.  Next is what a high-end ball looks like after it goes down the lane.  The wobbling CG causes the ball to flare as it's rolling, thus giving a fresh surface on every revolution.  That's all I can think of now.  Happy to entertain any questions or comments.

 

[shadow_operative2.0 15941]

The oil dye for TV has been a great addition. 

[Pogo 284]

4 minutes ago, shadow_operative2.0 said:

The oil dye for TV has been a great addition. 

Totally agree!

[shadow_operative2.0 15941]

^ So what hoops would you have to jump through to join the Senior Tour? 

[Pogo 284]

From a PBA standpoint, just pay my membership dues ($325/yr), pack my jerseys with my name on the back, enter the tournament and show up.  To be eligible for membership, you just have to prove you average over 200 in league.

The bigger hoops are personal.  I have a wife, 2 kids, and a full-time job. Ditching all that for a month next spring in order to bowl the first handful of tournaments will be a tough sell.  And I certainly wouldn't be doing it for the money.  I would consider it a success if I broke even. 

It's just one of those things I dreamed about as a kid watching the tour on Saturday afternoons.  I'm better now than I ever was in my 20s or 30s.  The more I watch the seniors, the more I think I can at least cash at that level.  I don't expect to beat the several hall-of-famers out there, but anything can happen if it comes down to a 1-game match.  Former MLB pitcher John Burkett beat those guys and won his first senior title a few weeks ago.  That's motivation.

Then again, I could be completely wrong, go out there and get my ass kicked.  There are a few PBA Regional Senior tournaments in the next few months.  Think of that like AAA ball compared to the big leagues.  Those will be a good barometer of where I'm at.

[shadow_operative2.0 15941]

Hell yeah, fucking do it. And keep us posted around here. 

[Pogo 284]

46 minutes ago, shadow_operative2.0 said:

Hell yeah, fucking do it. And keep us posted around here. 

Will do.  The first senior regional is 9/24, but I'll be in Houston going against the young guys this weekend.

[Wulaw Horn 19063]

115, 125, 131, 136 in order. Never got the hang of what I was trying to do. 

[Pogo 284]

6 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

115, 125, 131, 136 in order. Never got the hang of what I was trying to do. 

You're trending the right direction.  The more you do it, the more it'll come to you.

[Catpfish 618]

WuLaw, I think it was a couple of years or longer before I ever rolled a 600, but I have already discussed my lack of practice and good habits. You'll stagnate for a while and then something will click. Just keep at it. It looks easy until you start caring about what you are doing.

[Wulaw Horn 19063]

2 hours ago, Catpfish said:

WuLaw, I think it was a couple of years or longer before I ever rolled a 600, but I have already discussed my lack of practice and good habits. You'll stagnate for a while and then something will click. Just keep at it. It looks easy until you start caring about what you are doing.

I had just a baby hook going and couldn’t really get a feel. 
the one positive is a couple spares got picked up that usually I wouldn’t have because the ball stays heavier and caries it’s like deeper through the pins if that makes sense. Picked up a split I never would have before too. But threw a couple in the ditch and just missed the head pin way more than I ever would. My strikes were all Brooklyn hitting the back of the headpin and getting some good explosion. That was when the ball hooked a little more than coming into the front of the pocket. Was probably only 50% hitting my arrows. Usually about 80+ percent on that. 

[Catpfish 618]

I learned starting on the third dot from the right and throwing over the second arrow. Doesn't require a big hook and keeps you away from the gutter

A similar shot to what Norm Duke threw at the end

[Pogo 284]

16 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I had just a baby hook going and couldn’t really get a feel. 
the one positive is a couple spares got picked up that usually I wouldn’t have because the ball stays heavier and caries it’s like deeper through the pins if that makes sense. Picked up a split I never would have before too. But threw a couple in the ditch and just missed the head pin way more than I ever would. My strikes were all Brooklyn hitting the back of the headpin and getting some good explosion. That was when the ball hooked a little more than coming into the front of the pocket. Was probably only 50% hitting my arrows. Usually about 80+ percent on that. 

Baby hook is a good start.  That means your hand was in a strong enough position and your wrist was relatively straight.  What you don't want is your wrist bent back and your hand on top of the ball.  That's how you throw a house ball, and you can chunk one 20+mph doing so.  With a stronger wrist and your hand behind the ball (or even on the side like holding a suitcase), it doesn't take much effort to produce a little side rotation and see that baby hook.  Just expect that you're going to throw it several mph slower.  If you try to throw it hard like that, you're gonna have a bad time.  If you keep doing it, you'll start to get the feel of it.

 

[Wulaw Horn 19063]

12 minutes ago, Pogo said:

Baby hook is a good start.  That means your hand was in a strong enough position and your wrist was relatively straight.  What you don't want is your wrist bent back and your hand on top of the ball.  That's how you throw a house ball, and you can chunk one 20+mph doing so.  With a stronger wrist and your hand behind the ball (or even on the side like holding a suitcase), it doesn't take much effort to produce a little side rotation and see that baby hook.  Just expect that you're going to throw it several mph slower.  If you try to throw it hard like that, you're gonna have a bad time.  If you keep doing it, you'll start to get the feel of it.

 

Sub 12 seemed to be the best results. For reference I typically throw the house ball around 17 mph. 

[Pogo 284]

9 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Sub 12 seemed to be the best results. For reference I typically throw the house ball around 17 mph. 

Sounds about right.  FWIW, the difference isn't actually 5mph.  The gun is at the pins.  The house ball doesn't slow down much, so your release velocity on that is 17-18.  However, a good ball slows down in order to hook about 3mph, so you're probably releasing that closer to 15.  I'm constantly quoting Beastie Boys to myself - Slow & Low, that is the tempo.

[LonghornSean 3989]

@shadow_operative2.0 Derka's mom was my bowling teacher for a PE elective in middle school. Also took it in college at UT-arlington.

I had been in a league pretty consistently from about 2012 until Covid hit and two of our teammates took a break to have kids. Haven't gotten the team back together and have only bowled a handful of times since.

Straight ball thrower, so predictably a bit inconsistent. Usually around a 147 average, high game of 216 a few times. Never got my own ball.

 

Still mourning the loss of Dart Bowl.

[shadow_operative2.0 15941]

We had bowling my senior year of HS, that was the shit. 

[thunderlounge 7812]

Subscribed. 
 

3 leagues, some tourneys (nats, states, greater ozark, etc)

204-211 between the 3.

 

House is a fucking disaster, is what it is. 

[shadow_operative2.0 15941]

Any of you hate the 7-pin worse than the 10? Fuck that stupid mother fucker, I literally have a mental block. 

[thunderlounge 7812]

Being left handed, yes.

 

[shadow_operative2.0 15941]

Shit, you get the good part of the lanes. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by shadow_operative2.0
Hate the 7.

[thunderlounge 7812]

I wish. Centers so cheap they hardly lay anything on that side.

Typically, I’d agree. Just outside of my home house. They got shit all jacked up.

[Pogo 284]

On 8/19/2022 at 4:53 PM, thunderlounge said:

I wish. Centers so cheap they hardly lay anything on that side.

Typically, I’d agree. Just outside of my home house. They got shit all jacked up.

The left can definitely be feast or famine.  Often it seems like you either have the nuts or you're totally shut out.

As for the 7-pin, that's a no from me.  Since I started keeping my stats 8 years ago, I've left 565 7-pins and 2391 10-pins.  Getting the 10 out is what can make or break you.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Pogo

[thunderlounge 7812]

So what’s the word going around y’alls houses about national going through and certifying every member house at least once every 3 years?

Our house is fucked proper. I used to help with annual local inspections, but finally had enough 5 or 6 years ago. 
 

Every year it was the same dog and pony show. 
 

“Here’s how you measure x, y, z. Check a, b, c.” Etc.

And every year, a measurement or two would be far out of spec, so they would figure up how far off and how much to add or subtract so they all passed. 
 

Then they would come back to the rest of us and say something like:

“how we told you to measure x was wrong. We really meant blah blah, so everybody add/subtract [some number] and correct the measurement. 
 

Over a decade helping out and every year it was the same thing. And wasn’t even the same measurements each year. 
 

Fucking ridiculous. 
 

It’s a corporate AMF house, but the closest competition is 30-45 minutes away. Which is the problem. They take all they can locally, and spread it to other houses in the region that have competition. 
 

Of course lineage goes up every year, and nothing to show for it except a fucking migraine by the time the night is over from the got damn orange tubes they put over the fucking fluorescent tubes to “look cool” for the open play. And no way to turn them off as then there wouldn’t be any fucking lights on.

 

[Pogo 284]

My Monday league teammate has been the head mechanic for years.  He said they used to inspect every year.  Now it's every 3 years, but he hasn't heard anything and it's been 3 years.  Now they're going to come out with some kind of tiered certification, but that rollout has already been delayed.  Seems like a giant clusterfuck.  Dues will keep going up.

Bowlero just bought their first center in the Austin area, so we'll see how that changes things.  That was the place that hosted most local tournaments, so I hope they don't shaft the dude than ran them and we lose that action.

BTW, I barely cashed last weekend in Houston.  Made enough to cover my hotel.  It was brutal.  Only 5 of the 81 people averaged over 200 for the tournament, and everyone there was a 200+ league bowler.

[thunderlounge 7812]

If you expect anything over bare minimum from bowlero, good luck with that. 
 

Still AMF at the core, and they suck. If you think they do anything remotely in favor of leagues, yeah no. Unless they have no choice. 
 

They want just enough leagues to pay the bills, and the rest open play. 
 

If the GM at a house isn’t a corporate yes man, they get replaced.

I’ve been in my current home house for 15 years, and they have went through 9 GM’s in that span, and went for #10 this past June. 
 

Makes it difficult to establish a rapport with your GM well enough that they can actually hear an issue vice blowing it off as just another bitchy league bowler.

 

[thunderlounge 7812]

^^ said he who went 706 later that evening. 😂

 

 

stupid. fucking. game. 

[Wulaw Horn 19063]

I had 5 strikes in the first 9 frames and was sitting on 140 working off a strike in the 8th and 9th on Sunday. Then, my dipshit son ran up and threw the ball and hit the gate and fucked up the lane and we didn’t get to finish. What a dick munch. Cost me an outside chance at my first 200 in 25 years. Thanks moron. Nice to finally start throwing some strikes and stacking them up. 

[Deej 76748]

[Pogo 284]

On 9/1/2022 at 4:32 PM, Wulaw Horn said:

I had 5 strikes in the first 9 frames and was sitting on 140 working off a strike in the 8th and 9th on Sunday. Then, my dipshit son ran up and threw the ball and hit the gate and fucked up the lane and we didn’t get to finish. What a dick munch. Cost me an outside chance at my first 200 in 25 years. Thanks moron. Nice to finally start throwing some strikes and stacking them up. 

Awesome dude!  Keep it going.

[shadow_operative2.0 15941]

On 8/17/2022 at 3:58 PM, Pogo said:

The first senior regional is 9/24, but I'll be in Houston going against the young guys this weekend.

How'd this Houston tourney go? 

[Pogo 284]

19 minutes ago, shadow_operative2.0 said:

How'd this Houston tourney go? 

24th out of 81 - just inside the cash, which is good considering I had a couple 160s in there.  Made enough to pay for the hotel, but that's it.  It was tough. Only 5 guys averaged over 200 for the weekend. 

[thunderlounge 7812]

The struggle is real. 

[RPM 26315]

I bowled in a league for a couple of years in Denton back in the 80's. Was decent picking up spares. Had a 240 average. We won 2nd. I'd be afraid to throw a ball now the way my shoulder is fubar.

[shadow_operative2.0 15941]

240 average? 

Ain't buying what you're selling. 

[Pogo 284]

So you either meant 140 or 204.

[shadow_operative2.0 15941]

Or maybe 80 for a 240 series. 

[thunderlounge 7812]

Leave me out of this. 
 

 

wut?

 

Ok. Ok. But 580 felt like 240 last night. 🤬

[Wulaw Horn 19063]

Great start. Great finish. Rough in between. Not bad for time #4 doing it this way. 

[Pogo 284]

Nice work.  Is it starting to feel a little more comfortable?

[Wulaw Horn 19063]

21 minutes ago, Pogo said:

Nice work.  Is it starting to feel a little more comfortable?

Without a doubt. I now have more splits than I ever did before, and my Brooklyn strikes have all but disappeared, but if I hit the pocket on the front side they usually all fall down. Felt like that was pretty good for time #4. Rolled a 463 or something. Getting better. 

[Guest]

Grew up going to bowling alleys.  My family has always enjoyed bowling and the 'friendly' competition, but I am not that great at it.  PR is probably 175-180, and most of the time, score is  more like 130-145.  It is never not fun though.

My mom is 84 and still plays 2 leagues a week, one traditional and one 9-pin no tap.  I love it that she still does them.

[Pogo 284]

After starting league with the worst 2-week span in my adult life (527, 531), my local tour pro buddy told me to stop trying to hook the ball so much and straighten it out a little.  I recovered after the Labor Day break with a 701 and then 748 last night on my birthday.  Time to get ready to bowl against the 50+ crowd in Waxahachie this weekend!

[thunderlounge 7812]

I feel your pain. 
 

The center here can’t keep a stable environment for shit, on top of so many other issues it’s beyond fucking ridiculous at this point. 
 

Night to night, you never know what to throw. I have 3 lockers. 3 fucking lockers! Just to keep enough stuff for whatever it feels like playing today. 
 

Last week I didn’t have shit for it. It was completely spotty, burned out shit. (And they run the lanes before leagues, no open play on them for the 30 minutes or so between finishing and leagues starting.

If they would simply spend what little cash they put in into the right place instead of all the lipstick, they could be a very competitive house that isn’t constantly overlooked for state tournaments. 

[thunderlounge 7812]

Speaking of lockers for too much shit, thanks to last week I loaded up a bag to swap a few out. 🙄

[shadow_operative2.0 15941]

^ Take a pic off all your gear next time you have a minute. 

[thunderlounge 7812]

That’s not in lockers? 🤣

Here’s some of it. 
 

[shadow_operative2.0 15941]

Damn, son! 

[thunderlounge 7812]

That shot is a tick dated. 
 

First 3 sections, all rows, are filled, and a few stragglers in the 4th.

 

[shadow_operative2.0 15941]

Make those racks yourself, I presume?