Why does MIcrosoft Suck So Much?

[TwiceHorn 31517]

My FIL has an HP Spectre laptop.  

All of a sudden, he got a bitlocker recovery BSOD.  I'm sure he fucked something up, but that's beside the point.

He has no recollection of either enabling bitlocker encryption or storing the key.  There are three possible M$ accounts to which he might login to find any such key.  The only problem is, all of them go to some bullshit blank login.live.com  . . . . . screen.  One account, to which another windoze box is logged in, will show, but doesn't list the laptop among the devices.

This is trying to login from microsoft.com, as well as outlook.com, as well as using the bitlocker recovery link, https://account.microsoft.com/devices/recoverykey.

I rather doubt we'd find anything even if we could login.  I am also suspicious that he never encrypted using bitlocker in the first place and this is some kind of fucking glitch.

So, I say fuck it let's just wipe the piece of shit and start over (it's upgraded from W10, which I always give the sideye, I don't trust that shit going back to W7).  It gives you the option of keeping data, or wiping it all, and neither works.  After selecting that, it asks if you want to use local recovery or "cloud" and both fail.  I guess it wouldn't surprise me if a skinny SSD laptop doesn't have a recovery partition, but I think my last one did, don't recall, and a cloud install of windows just makes me giggle, although Apple does it pretty flawlessly, and so does Google.

So, do I need to make recovery media for this or what?

I don't do windows anymore, and haven't since W7, but I can still handle most windows stuff but it now officially bugs the fuck out of me.  I'd rather deal with Linux.

Edited August 20, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[immamac 42890]

This has nothing to do with MSFT and likely has nothing to do with anything other than incompetence on your part(s). It sounds like there is either a hardware failure in the integrated security module or the SSD is failing. There is a way to call Microsoft for the bitlocker key, but it sounds like you are trying to do this over facetime with a barely functional person on the other side. 

Take it to a best buy and just have them fix it since windows is so hard for you. 

 

[TwiceHorn 31517]

9 minutes ago, immamac said:

This has nothing to do with MSFT and likely has nothing to do with anything other than incompetence on your part(s). It sounds like there is either a hardware failure in the integrated security module or the SSD is failing. There is a way to call Microsoft for the bitlocker key, but it sounds like you are trying to do this over facetime with a barely functional person on the other side. 

Take it to a best buy and just have them fix it since windows is so hard for you. 

 

The thing isn't a year old.  But yeah it's possibly some kind of hardware failure.

Microsoft presents no options for calling them to recover a bitlocker key.  They direct you solely to the bitlocker recovery key link, which, as mentioned, is non functional.  And neither are any of their login sites, using edge, on two windows boxes.  Although it seems to act right on my chromebook and mac.

And, none of this explains why the MS recovery functions don't . . .  function.

Also, thanks for the great help.🖕🖕🖕

Edited August 20, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Tailgate 3022]

Why I use Apple exclusively. Microsoft wishes they had their UI capabilities…much less the hardware. 

[TwiceHorn 31517]

1 minute ago, Tailgate said:

Why I use Apple exclusively. Microsoft wishes they had their UI capabilities…much less the hardware. 

TBH, I'm not that wild about Apple's UI.  It's fine if somewhat limiting.  But, 99% of the time, their shit just works.  FIL's problems always seem to follow big updates, but it's hard to tell because windows updates are incessant.  The thing that largely drives me batshit about windows is that after a couple of decades of being not-so-user-friendly, they've candied everything up and you can't find settings where they used to be, or there are now redudant locations with different functionality.  Apple gets big points for consistency.

[ztejas 43526]

11 minutes ago, Tailgate said:

Why I use Apple exclusively. Microsoft wishes they had their UI capabilities…much less the hardware. 

Yeah Microsoft makes the worst hardware. 

@TwiceHorn if the hard drive isn't bad there should be a way to wipe it by just using that machine. Or just throw it into a different machine and wipe it from there. I'm not great with stuff like repartitioning but you can't really lock a hard drive from getting wiped. Can he reinstall windows? Like does he have a product key? If it isn't something you know how to do or can't figure out then just buy a new SSD which should be cheaper than paying someone to figure it out. 

I seriously doubt a 1 year SSD failed on him (I mean, if it did, it wouldn't be functioning the way it is).  Sounds like he fucked up the OS something fierce.

(or buy him a fucking Mac)

Edited August 21, 2022 by ztejas

[TwiceHorn 31517]

25 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Yeah Microsoft makes the worst hardware. 

@TwiceHorn if the hard drive isn't bad there should be a way to wipe it by just using that machine. Or just throw it into a different machine and wipe it from there. I'm not great with stuff like repartitioning but you can't really lock a hard drive from getting wiped. Can he reinstall windows? Like does he have a product key? If it isn't something you know how to do or can't figure out then just buy a new SSD which should be cheaper than paying someone to figure it out. 

I seriously doubt a 1 year SSD failed on him (I mean, if it did, it wouldn't be functioning the way it is).  Sounds like he fucked up the OS something fierce.

It's an "ultrabook," with a 128 or probably 256GB, so, with limited space I can see that they might not put a recovery partition with windows on it.  But they should tell you that in the recovery options, not give you two that fail without any further information.  And shit, if I need to make a recovery/WIndows image to wipe it, fucking tell me to do that.

Because it's a tiny laptop, I'm not inclined to open it up although the drives may be removable these days.  For a long time, they weren't, or not easily.  Plus it would void whatever warranty he has left, I'm sure.

As it stands, I think I can select a recovery option to use a windows stick and it looks like HP has some kind of cloud option, which may be the one that failed.  But that's all guesswork because the recovery functions suck dick.

Also, I believe that it came with W10 but was immediately upgraded to W11, but I can't be positive.  If I wipe it, I'd like to go to W11 directly but I'm not sure that's feasible because I think the inbuilt key will only work with the OEM version.

But what really pisses me off is that I can't use the key recovery site to login and check that possibility.  And I have seen that that is a recurrent problem, well documented on the MS support site.  You put in your UN and get a blank screen, or, it takes your pw, too, and gives a blank screen.  Cant refresh it. Nothing.

Edited August 21, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[ztejas 43526]

9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's an "ultrabook," with a 128 or probably 256GB, so, with limited space I can see that they might not put a recovery partition with windows on it.  But they should tell you that in the recovery options, not give you two that fail without any further information.  And shit, if I need to make a recovery/WIndows image to wipe it, fucking tell me to do that.

Because it's a tiny laptop, I'm not inclined to open it up although the drives may be removable these days.  For a long time, they weren't, or not easily.  Plus it would void whatever warranty he has left, I'm sure.

As it stands, I think I can select a recovery option to use a windows stick and it looks like HP has some kind of cloud option, which may be the one that failed.  But that's all guesswork because the recovery functions suck dick.

Also, I believe that it came with W10 but was immediately upgraded to W11, but I can't be positive.  If I wipe it, I'd like to go to W11 directly but I'm not sure that's feasible because I think the inbuilt key will only work with the OEM version.

But what really pisses me off is that I can't use the key recovery site to login and check that possibility.  And I have seen that that is a recurrent problem, well documented on the MS support site.  You put in your UN and get a blank screen, or, it takes your pw, too, and gives a blank screen.  Cant refresh it. Nothing.

Is this the one he has? Because this looks incredibly easily. 

And why would that void the warranty? Just put the one it came with back in if anyone asks. 

[TwiceHorn 31517]

The point is, I shouldn't have to do that kind of bullshit to wipe the fucking computer.

[ztejas 43526]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The point is, I shouldn't have to do that kind of bullshit to wipe the fucking computer.

I'm not absolving Microsoft because they do shit that irritates me as well - but this is mainly a user and hardware issue. 

I know trying to fix your FIL's laptop isn't what you enjoy doing.

[immamac 42890]

I’m sure I could fix the laptop in less than 10 minutes. It’s impossible to fix a laptop when you are dealing with people with broken brains who think Microsoft did anything to lock you out of your computer or had anything to do with the hardware configuration of the laptop. 

[ztejas 43526]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

I’m sure I could fix the laptop in less than 10 minutes.

This is my guess as well. 

Well maybe not you, but someone that actually knows what they're doing. 

Jk. 

[immamac 42890]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

This is my guess as well. 

Well maybe not you, but someone that actually knows what they're doing. 

Jk. 

Which is why I gave him the correct advice in my first post. 

[TwiceHorn 31517]

7 minutes ago, immamac said:

I’m sure I could fix the laptop in less than 10 minutes. It’s impossible to fix a laptop when you are dealing with people with broken brains who think Microsoft did anything to lock you out of your computer or had anything to do with the hardware configuration of the laptop. 

If you read the post, I'm not complaining about bitlocker or the hardware aspects of it.

I'm complaining about useless recovery options and the inability to even log in to microsoft's own fucking key recovery site.

[immamac 42890]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

If you read the post, I'm not complaining about bitlocker or the hardware aspects of it.

I'm complaining about useless recovery options and the inability to even log in to microsoft's own fucking key recovery site.

I’ve used the site 100+ times it works. You are the issue, not Microsoft. 

[TwiceHorn 31517]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

I’ve used the site 100+ times it works. You are the issue, not Microsoft. 

It doesn't fucking work right now on FILs computers.

It does, however, work right now on my MS account, which has no bitlocker keys, on chrome on a chromebook.

Edited August 21, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Dbeasy 15077]

 

[TwiceHorn 31517]

And, whoops, maybe it is a Microsoft issue.

https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/15/bitlocker_microsoft/

Now, of course, the fundamental problem is not having the bitlocker key.

I'll never know for sure, but if this happened despite FIL never enabling bitlocker, I will be even more pissed.

As I left it, I wanted to wipe it and reinstall windows.  I tried "keep files, use local recovery." "Failed." No further information given.  Same using cloud, no further information given.  Tried the full wipe, same results.

It'd be nice if they said "no recovery partition found, try cloud."  Or "unable to connect to server" try again.  Or, better yet, use recovery media.

But nah, they just tell you it failed.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31517]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

here is a way to call Microsoft for the bitlocker key,

So, o helpful genius, what is this number and what information would I need to recover the bitlocker key?  If such a key exists.

[torre 1286]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

My FIL has an HP Spectre laptop.  

 

So, do I need to make recovery media for this or what?

I don't do windows anymore, and haven't since W7, but I can still handle most windows stuff but it now officially bugs the fuck out of me.  I'd rather deal with Linux.

https://www.tenforums.com/antivirus-firewalls-system-security/

 

You will have to create an acct to post but post your issue in the above forum.    Great people including MSN techs.  Better than calling MSN, trust me.

I think similar issues have been solved without having to wipe the drive.

[TwiceHorn 31517]

I'd be happy to just wipe the drive.

It appears that HP Spectre do have a recovery partition and I may need to access it from the boot screen.

[elfenix 34331]

bitlocker is enabled by default, just with some key that you didn't enter and that you don't have to unlock in usual operation. 

https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c06458046

 

windows 11 is a giant pain in the ass from the little i've fucked with it. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by elfenix

[Upgrayedd 5818]

Have you tried unplugging and plugging back in?

[Kennythetiger 9418]

Take it to Immamac’s house. 

[immamac 42890]

9 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

Take it to Immamac’s house. 

If it's in Austin I'd offer to fix it. 

[TwiceHorn 31517]

Well, thanks. But it's not.

So yeah, I figured out that it's enabled by default if you use an MS account login, so I suppose it is encrypted.  FIL has apparently three MS accounts that potentially could have been used to set up the machine.  The one that's in use on his desktop does not show a laptop as a device.  His wife's account shows a laptop, but when you click it, blank screen.  I think it's likely that that is an old laptop, anyway.

There's a third account, that's old, an msn.com account, that seems to still exist, but I can't log into it, again the blank screen, whether from the recovery key link, or microsoft.com or outlook. com.  Or trying to change accounts from the one he's logged into on his desktop.  All blank screen, either before inputting username or after.

And, apparently, if he was able to bypass using an MS account to set it up, bitlocker may not have been enabled.

Regardless, it appears that the bitlocker key is ghandi.  That's fine, I'm over it.  I just want to wipe it and start over and make sure to save the gotdam bitlocker key.  That's not my issue.

The recovery options from the bitlocker screen are useless.  That and the inability to login to that third account to check for a key are what are pissing me off.

But it appears that if I go to the HP boot recovery screen, I can use the recovery partition to wipe it.  So that's plan C.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10338]

Seems MSFT setup doing what it was designed to do. Not sure their fault if user didn't do their part.

[52-80 19218]

21 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

My FIL has an HP Spectre laptop. 

embrace the borg and buy apple

[TwiceHorn 31517]

11 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

embrace the borg and buy apple

I already have, but it was because their ultrabooks were the best built at the time.  I think PCs have caught up.  I was pretty agnostic on the OS, but when I help FIL with his machines, I always end up irritated.

[TwiceHorn 31517]

8 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Seems MSFT setup doing what it was designed to do. Not sure their fault if user didn't do their part.

Again, my original post must not have been clear.  I'm not particularly annoyed by Bitlocker.

I am annoyed that on two different windows machines, I can't check one account for a key (that device comes up a blank page), can't change users on either machine to check those accounts (again blank page), and cannot just log in to the other MS accounts to check or go direct to the bitlocker key.  All blank pages.

And, after surrendering on the bitlocker issue, the restore/wipe options from that screen no worky.

The first issue is 100% microsoft.  The second issue may be a fundamental incompatibility between HP recovery software/partition and Windows.

Edited August 21, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[MonkeyDoughnut 10338]

28 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Again, my original post must not have been clear.  I'm not particularly annoyed by Bitlocker.

I am annoyed that on two different windows machines, I can't check one account for a key (that device comes up a blank page), can't change users on either machine to check those accounts (again blank page), and cannot just log in to the other MS accounts to check or go direct to the bitlocker key.  All blank pages.

And, after surrendering on the bitlocker issue, the restore/wipe options from that screen no worky.

The first issue is 100% microsoft.  The second issue may be a fundamental incompatibility between HP recovery software/partition and Windows.

so you're saying if you login to: https://account.microsoft.com/devices/recoverykey  from your phone or any other computer there are no keys listed or page itself doesn't come up?

[TwiceHorn 31517]

3 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

so you're saying if you login to: https://account.microsoft.com/devices/recoverykey  from your phone or any other computer there are no keys listed or page itself doesn't come up?

I'm saying that on two windows desktops at FIL's I would put in a username on that link and it would go blank.

I tried all manner of other ways to log in to a ms account and it did the same thing, with minor variations.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10338]

47 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm saying that on two windows desktops at FIL's I would put in a username on that link and it would go blank.

I tried all manner of other ways to log in to a ms account and it did the same thing, with minor variations.

ahh.. gotcha.. yeah that one is MSFT related/caused... usually some browser patch/extension getting out of whack but only seems to affect Microsoft sites - 365, teams, live, etc.  Edge browser usually best, had some luck with the Control panel -> Internet Options -> Advanced -> Reset fixes seem online.... but still run across it on different machines every now and then.  Never had it hit on a recovery issue luckily as would suck as you are well aware.

[TwiceHorn 31517]

22 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

ahh.. gotcha.. yeah that one is MSFT related/caused... usually some browser patch/extension getting out of whack but only seems to affect Microsoft sites - 365, teams, live, etc.  Edge browser usually best, had some luck with the Control panel -> Internet Options -> Advanced -> Reset fixes seem online.... but still run across it on different machines every now and then.  Never had it hit on a recovery issue luckily as would suck as you are well aware.

I did try it with firefox and chrome on one of them.

And most perplexing, on MIL's account, which was the login account on her computer, it showed a second device, laptop, that might have been it, but I'm kind of thinking an older one.  Click on it, nothing.

I initially thought that maybe because it was an msn account that was it, but I also tried to login to wife's account from FIL's computer using "change account" and again, a blank screen.

I'll probably take my chromebook or mac over next time, because I can login to my MS account, and the bitlocker link, just fine.  Just to see if the key was saved in one of the two that wasn't working right.

[TwiceHorn 31517]

So, went back with my shitass chromebook and was able to login to all three potential MS accounts.  No bitlocker keys, as suspected.

I had previously established that the blue screen following the bitlocker login screen presented utterly useless recovery options including wipe.

So, I thought I would F11 my way into HP recovery, which seemed to happen, and presented the same blue screen as above with useless (all failed, no further information) recovery options.

I give up.  I have no patience for this bullshit anymore.

[52-80 19218]

9 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I give up.  I have no patience for this bullshit anymore.

https://www.surlyhorns.com/board/topic/26623-why-does-microsoft-suck-so-much/?do=findComment&comment=4547770

[TwiceHorn 31517]

Well, FIL took it to best buy and let the geek squad reinstall windows and what appears to be the HP driver package.

So, I followed/did the set up for FIL and disabled bitlocker.  Best buy had set it up with "owner" as the admin account without any other accounts and it wouldn't finish encrypting until you added an account, so I disabled it and then added account.  Presumably, if he accidentally enables it, the key will be saved to at least one of those accounts.

At least as best buy set it up, there is no recovery partition, or it's deeply hidden.  I can't find a straight answer at HP whether it's supposed to have one or not.  And, I'm not sure the "bitlocker error" would permit access to it even if there was.