IG Horowitz report on Clinton email due soon

[hobbes2702 13,368]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trolls aren’t good for discussion IN REAL LIFE community but they’re here.  Walking and talking around in society like you and me.  The message board community should reflect that.  

No safe spaces anywhere I say.  

We’ve got to learn how to deal with this shit without suppressing voices. 

We don’t though. We shunned racism for a long time. We made it unacceptable for racists to have a voice in civilized society. We let them have their voice again because the argument became pc vs not pc. Shun these ignorant fucks back to their shitty homes and let them yell at their TVs. They don’t have a seat at the table and they don’t deserve to have their voice heard. Laugh at them or ignore them until they fuck off.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

We don’t though. We shunned racism for a long time. We made it unacceptable for racists to have a voice in civilized society. We let them have their voice again because the argument became pc vs not pc. Shun these ignorant fucks back to their shitty homes and let them yell at their TVs. They don’t have a seat at the table and they don’t deserve to have their voice heard. Laugh at them or ignore them until they fuck off.

Yeah, that’s all cool but we elected one president so... 

We need more dialogue, not less.

Supressing voices is not the answer.

 

[David Dennison 19,444]

3 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

We don’t though. We shunned racism for a long time. We made it unacceptable for racists to have a voice in civilized society. We let them have their voice again because the argument became pc vs not pc. Shun these ignorant fucks back to their shitty homes and let them yell at their TVs. They don’t have a seat at the table and they don’t deserve to have their voice heard. Laugh at them or ignore them until they fuck off.

We also need to shun the college educated suburban racists. We need to stop inviting them over for dinner and drinks. We need to stop tailgating with them. We need to stop associating with them in any way. We need to make their brand of veiled racism socially unacceptable.

[wildcat09 29,570]

Just now, David Dennison said:

We also need to shun the college educated suburban racists. We need to stop inviting them over for dinner and drinks. We need to stop tailgating with them. We need to stop associating with them in any way. We need to make their brand of veiled racism socially unacceptable.

Motherfucking this. These people are the real problem. Stupid methheads in some shitty rural trailer park will go back to not voting pretty quickly if they lose an election. It's the educated suburban racists that will stay politically active and continue their fight to make America a dumber, crueler, shittier place.

[GW Hayduke 1,957]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trolls aren’t good for discussion IN REAL LIFE community but they’re here.  Walking and talking around in society like you and me.  The message board community should reflect that.  

No safe spaces anywhere I say.  

We’ve got to learn how to deal with this shit without suppressing voices. 

It’s not about suppressing voices. Its not about a “safe space.” It’s about methods of discourse. 

It boils down to either having a space of productive dialogue that addresses trolling or a space with trolling and everyone in their extreme positions. If you asked a manager at a Russian troll farm which would be counter to the interests of the US, I know what they would say.

It might be funny sometimes to jointly mock an obvious troll that is saying stupid stuff. But after a while, it isn’t fun to mock the disabled kid in the corner. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Really don’t think the solution to solve our division is more division.  

Who am I kidding, we’re so fucked.

[Bill Clinton 73]

Извините, если уже размещены.

 

[hobbes2702 13,368]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Really don’t think the solution to solve our division is more division.  

Who am I kidding, we’re so fucked.

You can’t have a discussion with someone who ignores all norms of discourse. That’s why they need to be shunned. They don’t want to have a discussion or hear other points of view 

[David Dennison 19,444]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Really don’t think the solution to solve our division is more division.  

Who am I kidding, we’re so fucked.

I get what you are saying, but when it comes to the folks who should know better, how long are we supposed to put up with their bullshit without saying it's not OK? When is the right time to sever social ties with folks who know the history of this country but still choose white supremacy over inclusion?

Edited June 18, 2018 by David Dennison

[wildcat09 29,570]

Just now, hobbes2702 said:

You can’t have a discussion with someone who ignores all norms of discourse. That’s why they need to be shunned. They don’t want to have a discussion or hear other points of view 

Punching the neo-nazis in the face has proven much more effective at blunting their influence than trying to have reasonable discussions with them did.

[Js1 87,039]

Horowitz confirms the leaks to Rudy by the NYC FBI agents are still being investigated.

[jimmyjazz 46,999]

I would love to see a Rudy perp walk.  Almost as much as I'd like to see a Donald perp walk (but not quite).

My internal cinema cannot even comprehend Miller in prison.

[GW Hayduke 1,957]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Punching the neo-nazis in the face has proven much more effective at blunting their influence than trying to have reasonable discussions with them did.

And punching an obvious troll in the face through a ban, suspension, etc. is appropriate.

What happens is that once trolling becomes the norm, everyone does it.

A solution to trolling-type behavior is to have “etiquette” on discourse and consequences for not following. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

 

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Punching the neo-nazis in the face has proven much more effective at blunting their influence than trying to have reasonable discussions with them did.

The neo-nazis want to be punched in the face.  They want to be the victim of your intolerance so they appear sympathetic and not nearly as bad as the violent opposition.

I’m just telling you, going down that road plays into their hands.

Call them out on their hate and denounce their racism. 

[EMAWesome 101]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

You give these idiots far too much credit.  Nobody in their right mind would pay sheeeeeeeit, Onboard, Ragnass, etc.  They're just simple farmers. People of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.

Cool, we have an actual member of the FBI posting in this thread.

[EMAWesome 101]

Oh, and thanks for proving my points about liberals being actual fascists.  Post after post after post basically stating that anyone that disagrees with me must be a troll and therefore banned.

[David Dennison 19,444]

2 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Oh, and thanks for proving my points about liberals being actual fascists.  Post after post after post basically stating that anyone that disagrees with me must be a troll and therefore banned.

Do you need a cry closet, snowflake?

[jimmyjazz 46,999]

6 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Oh, and thanks for proving my points about liberals being actual fascists.  Post after post after post basically stating that anyone that disagrees with me must be a troll and therefore banned.

Says the guy who supports a party which won't even allow hearings on a legitimate SCOTUS nominee.  Blow me, asshole.  You ARE the enemy.

[Pods 7,623]

2 hours ago, Js1 said:

Horowitz confirms the leaks to Rudy by the NYC FBI agents are still being investigated.

^^^Actual news being missed here in the discussion of trolls. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Just now, Pods said:

^^^Actual news being missed here in the discussion of trolls. 

 

Meh, not really a development 

 

WHY NOT DONE!??

[Guest]

i get a kick out of how one side of the argument gets to ( attempts to) determine who gets a voice on racism.

 

"Our solutions for minorities are more sensitive( yet questionably effective, at best,) yet we get to label folks at our choosing.   We are so fucking enlightened.  Nobody else knows what is good for people.  If they do not subscribe to our alleged solutions, they racists."

 

Yeah, keep up the backslapping, people...

Edited June 18, 2018 by slorch

[jimmyjazz 46,999]

It's not at all surprising that you see the issue that way.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's not at all surprising that you see the issue that way.

I've said it in the thread and it bears repeating, just because someone disagrees with PC theories on solutions for racism does not necessarily make them racists.

Some on here and bigtime in society think buying-in on the enabling and crutch-leaning horseshit is required to correct things.  IMHO, it only perpetuates the issues.

[jimmyjazz 46,999]

Of course you do.  Bless your little heart.

[EMAWesome 101]

19 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's not at all surprising that you see the issue that way.

And it's not at all surprising that you don't see the actual issue.

[SubliminalHorn 6,997]

11 minutes ago, slorch said:

I've said it in the thread and it bears repeating, just because someone disagrees with PC theories on solutions for racism does not necessarily make them racists.

Some on here and bigtime in society think buying-in on the enabling and crutch-leaning horseshit is required to correct things.  IMHO, it only perpetuates the issues.

And your honest opinion is stupid. Thanks for sharing it though. 

[David Dennison 19,444]

2 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

And it's not at all surprising that you don't see the actual issue.

It's like you're confused about politics.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, SubliminalHorn said:

And your honest opinion is stupid. Thanks for sharing it though. 

Indeed.

Commitment to family

Gainful employment

Continued education

Commitment to Citizenship/ community

Respect for the law( not necessarily LE, before some of you lose your shit) and staying drug free

 

You live your life this way and good shit will happen.  Yes, it truly is this simple.

[David Dennison 19,444]

2 minutes ago, slorch said:

Indeed.

Commitment to family

Gainful employment

Continued education

Commitment to Citizenship/ community

Respect for the law( not necessarily LE, before some of you lose your shit) and staying drug free

 

You live your life this way and good shit will happen.  Yes, it truly is this simple.

Not always. Many people do all of these things and still fail.

[jimmyjazz 46,999]

Not only that, but what on earth makes you (slorch) believe that any particular individual is NOT committed to family, employment, education, citizenship, or the law?

Must be the skin color.

Edited June 18, 2018 by jimmyjazz

[Brisketexan 106,699]

9 minutes ago, slorch said:

Indeed.

Commitment to family - I haven't always been the best at this.  Indeed, I had a pretty shitty period with respect to my parents.

Gainful employment - I was between jobs at one point in my life.

Continued education - Okay, I've been pretty good at this one.

Commitment to Citizenship/ community - Definitely have been weak on this at times.

Respect for the law( not necessarily LE, before some of you lose your shit) and staying drug free - in my youth, I broke the law NUMEROUS times.  I possessed substances I shouldn't have, I drove recklessly, even intoxicated on occasion.  I even stole stuff.

 

You live your life this way and good shit will happen.  Yes, it truly is this simple.

See my bolded answers.

The difference between me, and folks from the bottom rungs of society, is that even when I fell short in each of those respects, society, family, etc. was there to cut me a break.  The cop let me go home to may parents instead of arresting me, etc.  AND, even if I had run truly afoul of the law or somesuch, I had a family network with the means to help me get out of a jam.

The dude on the bottom rung gets ZERO breaks.  And when one thing goes wrong...there's no one and nothing to keep him from falling.

Adopt my EXACT same behavior and actions, but make me poor and black.  You and I both know that the outcome -- of the exact same actions -- would have been quite different.  It's that difference that still matters.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Not always. Many people do all of these things and still fail.

Failing means to give up.

 

It's called life because we are imperfect.  Life is the challenge of picking yourself up and fighting back.

 

I tend to believe in the individual and in that, believe it is their responsibility to pick themselves up.  I do believe in limited safety nets, but not continual sustenance.  Many folks believe the answer lies in the government and that it is society's job to pick these folks up, especially if they are minorities.  I strongly disagree.

 

[David Dennison 19,444]

1 minute ago, slorch said:

Failing means to give up.

 

It's called life because we are imperfect.  Life is the challenge of picking yourself up and fighting back.

 

I tend to believe in the individual and in that, believe it is their responsibility to pick themselves up.  I do believe in limited safety nets, but not continual sustenance.  Many folks believe the answer lies in the government and that it is society's job to pick these folks up, especially if they are minorities.  I strongly disagree.

 

Well, you belong to a social class (the middle) that has been sustained by the federal government for your entire life. And your parents' lives. And your grandparents' lives. 

 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

It's like you're confused about politics.

well there's politics, in which some of you seem to excel.

 

and there is practical application on the street, which scares the dogshit out of most of you.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Well, you belong to a social class (the middle) that has been sustained by the federal government for your entire life. And your parents' lives. And your grandparents' lives. 

 

 

Of course you see it that way.  we're all a bunch of dependents upon the teat, right?

[David Dennison 19,444]

2 minutes ago, slorch said:

Of course you see it that way.  we're all a bunch of dependents upon the teat, right?

A lot of middle class wealth gets created with assistance from the state, mainly in the form of mortgage support and lately student loan support.

[seven 1,368]

Slorch is very knowledgeable about the streets

[TornACL 7,792]

11 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

No, no, it's quite clear. You are for bringing in the adherents of a religion that discriminates against blacks and hispanics.  Just like you are for bringing in Muslims, regardless of how the religion treats women.   Instead of protesting a world where women have no rights, the left celebrates the boot on their throat, by backing events like World Hijab day, where woman show their solidarity for oppression by wearing the symbol of that oppression. 

I hate to break it to you champ, but what you think is a clever gotcha is a clumsy, flawed and sad approach which is better suited for a sixth grade debate contest than a discussion between two (presumably) adults. 

You didn't even read my post because you were so eager to spring your little trap. 

In case you missed the memo, people in this country are free to believe in any religion they choose. It's a shame that some extreme facets of all religions advocate violence. It's wrong, in my mind. 

You know what else is wrong? Denying someone entry to this country based solely on their religion. That's not my personal belief or opinion. That is a fact that cannot be disputed. 

I don't have to support or endorse the beliefs of every person who visits or emigrates to this country. Likewise, I don't need to support or endorse any of the beliefs of any of my fellow Americans. If you want to be a racist piece of shit and spout bullshit on the internet that makes you look like a moron, I can't stand in your way. 

I will, however, speak up and take action when our government oversteps its boundaries and tries to suppress those beliefs, even if I find them personally detestable. 

That's kind of how this whole deal works. Perhaps you need a civics class. You definitely lack class. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by TornACL

[HOOK'EMHOOAH 1,610]

13 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

The neo-nazis want to be punched in the face.  They want to be the victim of your intolerance so they appear sympathetic and not nearly as bad as the violent opposition.

I’m just telling you, going down that road plays into their hands.

Call them out on their hate and denounce their racism. 

This is the correct answer. The only way to get through this is by sticking together and standing firm by each other's side.

Our diversity as a society is our strength. No matter what any neo-Nazi or white nationalist claims to the contrary, diversity is the only way we will succeed and advance as a species.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, David Dennison said:

A lot of middle class wealth gets created with assistance from the state, mainly in the form of mortgage support and lately student loan support.

Nobody is paying my mirtgage. Nobody else us paying my kid's student loans; and in that, of all the ways we subsidize things in society, those endeavors still require effort by the individual. You misrepresent the investment we make as a society on education and home ownership. You make it sound as if everyone's just on the take.  Again, you are grossly misrepresenting the whole situation. 

 

Truth be told, I'd be just fine with the gov't butting out on these issues. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by slorch

[SmokeyTheBear 5,569]

Yes, but what you fail to realize is that you were able to get to this spot (top 1% wealth in the world) due to systems for the last 100 years that were meant to prop up the middle class and provide avenues for advancement. This mindset is allowed only for those in this minority because those systems that propped us up previously are eroding now. Higher ed is far too expensive for those in the lower rungs to enter unlike previous years. Housing market is harder to enter unless you already have built wealth. These lower wage jobs typically do not have the health benefits that the jobs those in the middle class have so when they get sick it impacts them more than it would you or I. 

 

You have the luxury to view the situation through your lens but not those whose original starting point is lower with a harder path to go through. Can it be done? Sure. Is it as straight forward and easy as you lay it out? Absolutely not. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by SmokeyTheBear

[Bill Clinton 73]

14 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Not only that, but what on earth makes you (slorch) believe that any particular individual is NOT committed to family, employment, education, citizenship, or the law?

Must be the skin color.

Must be.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/77-black-births-to-single-moms-49-for-hispanic-immigrants

http://www.fathers.com/statistics-and-research/the-consequences-of-fatherlessness/

[Bill Clinton 73]

12 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Well, you belong to a social class (the middle) that has been sustained by the federal government for your entire life. And your parents' lives. And your grandparents' lives. 

 

 

Wait, the middle class has been sustained by the federal government?

heh

[SKJ 1,317]

15 hours ago, slorch said:

Indeed.

Commitment to family

Gainful employment

Continued education

Commitment to Citizenship/ community

Respect for the law( not necessarily LE, before some of you lose your shit) and staying drug free

 

You live your life this way and good shit will happen.  Yes, it truly is this simple.

I hope I never meet you. I might just beat you to death.

The worst thing about it is you're probably one of the luckiest fucks out there, but you think you earned it, and with it the right to condescend to everyone else that's actually in the struggle.

[Chrispy 132]

25 minutes ago, Bill Clinton said:

Must be.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/77-black-births-to-single-moms-49-for-hispanic-immigrants

http://www.fathers.com/statistics-and-research/the-consequences-of-fatherlessness/

Now you’ve done it, the virtue signalers will be here shortly to explain why single parent households are your fault.  

[wildcat09 29,570]

14 minutes ago, SKJ said:

I hope I never meet you. I might just beat you to death.

The worst thing about it is you're probably one of the luckiest fucks out there, but you think you earned it, and with it the right to condescend to everyone else that's actually in the struggle.

Slorch grew up on direct government support, and thanks to it was able to make something of himself. Yet, somehow, he doesn’t see the value in providing similar support to other poor people.

[jimmyjazz 46,999]

"Born on first and hit a triple" is probably a bit too much to describe guys like slorch, but "born on second and thinks he walked and stole a base" is fairly apt.

[David Dennison 19,444]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

Nobody is paying my mirtgage. Nobody else us paying my kid's student loans; and in that, of all the ways we subsidize things in society, those endeavors still require effort by the individual. You misrepresent the investment we make as a society on education and home ownership. You make it sound as if everyone's just on the take.  Again, you are grossly misrepresenting the whole situation. 

 

Truth be told, I'd be just fine with the gov't butting out on these issues. 

No one is saying the government pays your mortgage or your kids' student loans. What I am saying is that there's a very good chance you and your parents may never have received a mortgage without the federal government getting involved. The same goes for student loans. Without government support, there probably would not have been such a broad market for these types of financial instruments. Banks simply wouldn't lend to to certain customers without government guarantees. Moreover, mortgages have been further subsidized in the form of the mortgage interest deduction most middle class Americans claim on their federal taxes (or used to, anyway. Thanks Donald!). I'm not even going to get into just how much American farmers and businesses have benefitted from government funding. Let's just say many of our most venerable industries would not exist today without an assist from Uncle Sam.

So before you think you'd be fine with the government butting out, remember that many of the things you have are a direct result of government intervention. Without assistance from the state, the middle class in this country would be nowhere near as large. The American middle class and the economy that sustains it was created by both public and private efforts. It didn't just happen. Your way of life would not exist without the United States government and its support of American businesses and individuals. That's not my opinion. It's history.

Edited June 19, 2018 by David Dennison

[PittsburghTiger 6,326]

 

 

[David Dennison 19,444]

That is surprising. I mean, they're all well-known criminals.

Silly FBI.