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Ragnarok

By Ragnarok
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Ragnarok

Ragnarok 103

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1 minute ago, Captainant said:

You can replace "muslim" or "islam" with christianity and judaism and not really change the message of your statement. Christianity is absolutely a political belief system in the US. Church and state ARE intertwined here - the WH used the bible as justification for their child abuse policy. You're using your perception of one religion while simultaneously ignoring the negatives of other religions to take a bigoted and prejudiced position. 

Really, this is the most tiresome thing I hear. This is like equating a parent spanking their child with a parent raping their child. I guess the countries that legally strip women of their rights, and have the death penalty for blasphemy and homosexuality are just a myth. Somebody should tell Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen about that.

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18860

Posted
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1 minute ago, Ragnarok said:

Really, this is the most tiresome thing I hear. This is like equating a parent spanking their child with a parent raping their child. I guess the countries that legally strip women of their rights, and have the death penalty for blasphemy and homosexuality are just a myth. Somebody should tell Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen about that.

 

Christian nations have a history of doing everything you accuse Muslim nations of doing. 

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TornACL

TornACL 7698

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17 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Well, I thought I was pretty clear.  But this part of what I wrote is a reasonable summary:

The percentage of "good" people who are Muslims is no higher or lower than anywhere else. But their religion is broken. Look at the governments of Muslim majority nations. Look at the problems facing every nation with large Muslim minorities. Why do you think America will be any different?

No laws need to be changed. We just need to be very wary of Muslim immigration until we see change elsewhere.   Islam is not only a religion; it is a political belief system. Church and State are intertwined. 

 

So now we just need to be wary. I got it. So in other words we need to carefully vet people coming into this country before we give them legal status.

What exactly are you proposing that is new or different from what exists today, particularly if you're not suggesting any changes to the law? 

 

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Ragnarok

Ragnarok 103

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Just now, David Dennison said:

Christian nations have a history of doing everything you accuse Muslim nations of doing. 

But we live in the present. And Christian nations no longer live in the dark ages. But that is the present for much of Islam.

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TornACL

TornACL 7698

Posted
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4 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Really, this is the most tiresome thing I hear. This is like equating a parent spanking their child with a parent raping their child. I guess the countries that legally strip women of their rights, and have the death penalty for blasphemy and homosexuality are just a myth. Somebody should tell Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen about that.

 

If people are fleeing those countries, has it ever occurred to you that they are fleeing PRECISELY because they are escaping that barbaric law? Not that they are trying to foster its development throughout the world? 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45960

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6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It seems to me Islam is going through exactly what Christianity went through. History is long.

It seems to me that this "Christian" nation is headed straight back to barbarism, so once again Ragnass is wrong.

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TornACL

TornACL 7698

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7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

The lunacy of mapping what a government might do using a religion as a tool onto the individual boggles the mind, but it's common among right-wing bigots, so I'm used to it.

Every belief system is monolithic, everybody gets labels, there is no gray area, if you are one thing that means you are automatically this other thing. 

It's how mouth breathers deal with a complex world and its many difficult multi - layered issues. 

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Pods

Pods 7552

Posted
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1 hour ago, kevwun said:

You fellows would have more luck arguing with a tree.

Yes, but we are flooded with trolls. Look at the last few pages. All new account Trumpkin supporters trolling the exact same position they always have been. If you respond, they win. If you don't respond, they dominate the messaging and they win.

It's a catch-22 and yet one more reason to say Fuck Trump and Fuck Russia.

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GW Hayduke

GW Hayduke 1953

Posted
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58 minutes ago, Pods said:

Yes, but we are flooded with trolls. Look at the last few pages. All new account Trumpkin supporters trolling the exact same position they always have been. If you respond, they win. If you don't respond, they dominate the messaging and they win.

It's a catch-22 and yet one more reason to say Fuck Trump and Fuck Russia.

Imo there’s another option though I’m not sure it is possible on this site.

Realize both sides troll.

Establish a non-trolling etiquette. 

Enforce that etiquette.

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GW Hayduke

GW Hayduke 1953

Posted
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1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Like democracy in the Middle East, etiquette and Surly don’t mix.

we tried the [serious] thread thing, which I liked but there was little self policing or enforcement.

It must have been a less-absurd idea when you tried it before.

Considering the amount of trolling on this site, the policing and enforcement would have to be intense.

2 minutes ago, TornACL said:

And sometimes it's hard to tell the trolls from the impossibly stupid. 

True. Some folks don’t even know they are trolling and think it is just normal interent etiquette. Soon it becomes a giant snowball with everyone trolling everyone, which seems to be the case here sometimes

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Equinox

Equinox 95

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From Wikipedia-

Quote

Application of the term troll is subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. Like any pejorative term, it can be used as an ad hominem attack, suggesting a negative motivation.

At times, the word can be abused to refer to anyone with controversial opinions they disagree with.[16] Such usage goes against the ordinary meaning of troll in multiple ways. 

 

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Equinox

Equinox 95

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Quote

WASHINGTON — The Obama White House’s chief cyber official testified Wednesday that proposals he was developing to counter Russia’s attack on the U.S. presidential election were put on a “back burner” after he was ordered to “stand down” his efforts in the summer of 2016.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-cyber-chief-confirms-stand-order-russian-cyberattacks-summer-2016-204935758.html?soc_src=hl-viewer&soc_trk=tw

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Guest

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Posted
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5 hours ago, Pods said:

Yes, but we are flooded with trolls. Look at the last few pages. All new account Trumpkin supporters trolling the exact same position they always have been. If you respond, they win. If you don't respond, they dominate the messaging and they win.

It's a catch-22 and yet one more reason to say Fuck Trump and Fuck Russia.

This is not about WWIII, but about talking politics on Surly...

 

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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10 minutes ago, Equinox said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-cyber-chief-confirms-stand-order-russian-cyberattacks-summer-2016-204935758.html?soc_src=hl-viewer&soc_trk=tw

And?  Did you read the whole article? Do you know the nuance and context surrounding that decision?

because it’s been well documented over the last year.

 

ETA:  For the record, I’ve been really hard on Obama for pussyfooting on Russia in 2015/16.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Incredulity

Incredulity 11675

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32 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

ETA:  For the record, I’ve been really hard on Obama for pussyfooting on Russia in 2015/16.

That’s the funniest thing I have read in a good while.  You actually believe that statement, don’t you?

oh my

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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8 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

That’s the funniest thing I have read in a good while.  You actually believe that statement, don’t you?

oh my

I mean, I called him out on it yesterday and railed against him plenty on the old board but facts don’t matter to you and I just realized that this was a troll and I’ve wasted all my time typing this shit out, hopefully you’re still reading so I can in someway hold your attention a little longer as retaliation. okay I’m done.

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yaqdum

yaqdum 182

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28 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

wasted all my time typing this shit out

yeah, i've wondered if these fuckers get paid by the word.  not for the words they key in but for the words written in response to them.

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Equinox

Equinox 95

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23 minutes ago, yaqdum said:

yeah, i've wondered if these fuckers get paid by the word.  not for the words they key in but for the words written in response to them.

I bet you typed that out to Hugo Stickdick with a straight face.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18860

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19 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Jesus fuck, equinox and his merry band of gaslighters are going into overdrive. Brietbart and infowarzzz must be scared of something

They know Robert Mueller has the goods on Donald Trump. The evidence of criminality is going to be overwhelming. They are trying to get ahead of it.

It's not going to work.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105147

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22 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Jesus fuck, equinox and his merry band of gaslighters are going into overdrive. Brietbart and infowarzzz must be scared of something

 

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

They know Robert Mueller has the goods on Donald Trump. The evidence of criminality is going to be overwhelming. They are trying to get ahead of it.

It's not going to work.

These.  Just watch the level of deflection.  That tells you how hot things are.

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Equinox

Equinox 95

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1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Jesus fuck, equinox and his merry band of gaslighters are going into overdrive. Brietbart and infowarzzz must be scared of something

Your boy Meuller will be looking for a new job soon.

 

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