Dallas surgical center stops operations after 'compromised' IV bag found

[Bozo_Casanova 26465]

6 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

No I mean lawsuits by the lawyers for the docs being denied privileges. The same lawyers that make it so difficult to take medical licenses permanently. If you want to start a thread about med mal in Texas please do so. I  have no interest in discussing it

Even so, I don't see how it's possible to talk about the risk management decisions any business makes without talking about their exposure to risk. I know this topic irritates you for some reason, but it's part of the conversation. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Bozo_Casanova

[Dbeasy 15051]

9 hours ago, Bevo said:

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Dbeasy

[Herbie Hancock 7348]

4 hours ago, Bevo said:

Go ahead and list the potential complications to IV access and risk percentages. Start with phlebitis.

If you can tell me what HAI stands for I’ll eat my fucking shoe. Complications for IV access stems from people that have prolonged infusing sites and/or PICC lines. And the majority of those complications are due to people not “scrubbing the hub”. So, once again, fuck right off with your sanctimonious self righteous nonsense. 

[TwiceHorn 31476]

TMB has seemingly been cowed by litigious licensees going back long before med-mal reform.

It has been historically difficult to dismiss bs lawsuits in Texas (no dismissal for failure to state a claim until recently, summary judgment was not taken seriously by Texas trial courts until the late 90s at the earliest).

[Bevo 13577]

4 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

If you can tell me what HAI stands for I’ll eat my fucking shoe. Complications for IV access stems from people that have prolonged infusing sites and/or PICC lines. And the majority of those complications are due to people not “scrubbing the hub”. So, once again, fuck right off with your sanctimonious self righteous nonsense. 

Do you know why I said I wasn't worried about infections? The point was that regardless of risk, giving yourself an IV routinely (ie non-emergency) isn't smart. An acquaintance of sawbonz died. I assume that it was due to a tainted bag. But there are other things that could have happened without it being tainted. I guess some people mow the lawn without shoes or do woodworking without goggles.

I mentioned it because I thought it was odd that she gave herself an IV at work because she felt dehydrated and that perhaps something else was going on with her - electrolyte imbalances, thrombosis, embolisms, kidney disease and heart disease complications could also lead to myocardial infarction from IV hydration.

[Humble Beast 258]

Some more background on the doc in question. Major scumbag, shitty doc it would appear. 
 

https://dallasexpress.com/local-shuttered-clinic-linked-to-troubled-anesthesiologist/

 

An interesting point that I missed before was that the anesthesiologist that died at her home actually had the Iv fluid at the facility before leaving. If you’re going to arrest from local anesthetic toxicity, that is going to happen rapidly, with some preceding symptoms that the anesthesiologist would recognize. So I don’t think a contaminated bag played any part in her death. 

[Bevo 13577]

6 minutes ago, Humble Beast said:

Some more background on the doc in question. Major scumbag, shitty doc it would appear. 
 

https://dallasexpress.com/local-shuttered-clinic-linked-to-troubled-anesthesiologist/

 

An interesting point that I missed before was that the anesthesiologist that died at her home actually had the Iv fluid at the facility before leaving. If you’re going to arrest from local anesthetic toxicity, that is going to happen rapidly, with some preceding symptoms that the anesthesiologist would recognize. So I don’t think a contaminated bag played any part in her death. 

Was she an anesthesiologist, also?

[Humble Beast 258]

3 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Was she an anesthesiologist, also?

Yes

[Guest]

On 9/5/2022 at 12:36 PM, Bevo said:

Never have. Never will. Same goes for the rest of my family. Are you seeing this in the doctor's lounge or up in the nurses station? Cuz' I've got to say that it is dumb as shit.

Pretty common knowledge. Why are you doubting this?

[Bevo 13577]

40 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

Pretty common knowledge. Why are you doubting this?

Oh just because it is dumb and it quite possibly led to her death. Although, I did not know that she was an anesthesiologist. If anyone is going to give themselves an IV, at least it was an anesthesiologist who can do it in her sleep. The half-life of bupivicaine is about 3hrs (it is pretty long-lasting) so it is possible that a tainted bag could have played a role. Although, I don't know how much time lapsed between when she gave herself the IV in the surgery center and when she had the myocardial infarction. 

[Bevo 13577]

1 hour ago, Humble Beast said:

Some more background on the doc in question. Major scumbag, shitty doc it would appear. 
 

https://dallasexpress.com/local-shuttered-clinic-linked-to-troubled-anesthesiologist/

 

An interesting point that I missed before was that the anesthesiologist that died at her home actually had the Iv fluid at the facility before leaving. If you’re going to arrest from local anesthetic toxicity, that is going to happen rapidly, with some preceding symptoms that the anesthesiologist would recognize. So I don’t think a contaminated bag played any part in her death. 

I'm not sure what happened based on the article that you linked. Here is the excerpt.

 

Dr. Kaspar, who had been treated as a patient at the surgery center, died after being discharged to her home, with reports initially presuming her cause of death to be a heart attack. However, her death came after she used an IV to administer fluids to herself because she was feeling dehydrated, according to NBC Dallas.

[SquishMitten 10408]

On 9/5/2022 at 12:36 PM, Bevo said:

Never have. Never will. Same goes for the rest of my family. Are you seeing this in the doctor's lounge or up in the nurses station? Cuz' I've got to say that it is dumb as shit.

Paramedics/firefighters do it all the time too. Or at least they did when I had a few of them as roommates. Those were some great, hangover free years. 

[Humble Beast 258]

So it looks the doctor that died did take the bag home with her, unknowingly hooked herself up to a tainted bag and was killed. 

 

 

[C-Man 27229]

On 9/5/2022 at 5:47 PM, Billy Pilgrim said:

Friend of a friend in his anesthesia group said Ortiz was spiking the bags so his complication rates appeared more in line with everyone else in his group.

That is all kinds of fucked up.

[Updawg 2266]

Friend of a friend in his anesthesia group said Ortiz was spiking the bags so his complication rates appeared more in line with everyone else in his group.

Spiking so his patients felt better after surgery I assume?

But wouldn’t that also lead to deaths like these?

I’m no doctor obviously

[Billy Pilgrim 1963]

11 minutes ago, Updawg said:

Spiking so his patients felt better after surgery I assume?

But wouldn’t that also lead to deaths like these?

I’m no doctor obviously

He had a relatively high complication rate during his surgeries so he spiked bags so his colleagues’ patients would have similar complications so he didn’t look like an outlier.

[MrBig 5398]

7 hours ago, Humble Beast said:

So it looks the doctor that died did take the bag home with her, unknowingly hooked herself up to a tainted bag and was killed. 

 

 

A press release from the U.S. Department of Justice said on or around June 21, a 55-year-old coworker of Ortiz had a medical emergency and died immediately after treating herself for dehydration using an IV bag of saline taken from the surgical center. 

An autopsy report revealed that she died from a lethal dose of bupivacaine, a nerve blocking agent that is often used during the administration of anesthesia.

Two months later, on or around August 24, an 18-year-old had a cardiac emergency during surgery. He was intubated and transferred to a local ICU. Chemical analysis of the fluid from a saline bag used during his surgery revealed the presence of epinephrine (a stimulant that could have caused the patient’s symptoms), bupicavaine, and lidocaine.

According to a complaint, surgical center personnel concluded that the two incidents suggested a pattern of intentional adulteration of IV bags used at the surgical center. 

They also identified around 10 other unexpected cardiac emergencies that happened during surgeries between May and August 2022. The complaint alleges that 10 is an exceptionally high rate of complications over such a short period of time.

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/dallas-anesthesiologist-accused-of-tampering-with-iv-bags/amp/

[Sam Lin 3559]

On 9/7/2022 at 1:11 AM, Porterhouse said:

Pretty common knowledge. Why are you doubting this?

On 9/5/2022 at 8:37 PM, Bevo said:

Given that she was dehydrated, why would the doctor give herself an IV instead of say drink some water?

On 9/5/2022 at 11:50 PM, trauma babe said:

IV works faster, and drinking water is boring

On 9/6/2022 at 12:24 AM, trauma babe said:

You're overthinking it. Nurses and doctors give themselves IVs at home regularly. It's a thing. 

All of this, and it isn't only at home. I have many friends who are or have been ER docs. It is not uncommon for ER staff to give themselves an IV to rehydrate between ops. IV rehydration is direct and takes minutes. Drinking liquid takes up to an hour to actually have effect; not useful when you are running from multiple hours of surgery into the next multiple hours of surgery. And the last thing any ER doc is doing mid-surgery is stopping to drink water.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Sam Lin said:

All of this, and it isn't only at home. I have many friends who are or have been ER docs. It is not uncommon for ER staff to give themselves an IV to rehydrate between ops. IV rehydration is direct and takes minutes. Drinking liquid takes up to an hour to actually have effect; not useful when you are running from multiple hours of surgery into the next multiple hours of surgery. And the last thing any ER doc is doing mid-surgery is stopping to drink water.

Yo tambien. And for them, and me when I’m with them and in need, grabbing an IV is like sticking your favored coffee shot in the Keurig. That simple. Hangover shortened considerably. 

[HeHateMe 885]

1 hour ago, Sam Lin said:

All of this, and it isn't only at home. I have many friends who are or have been ER docs. It is not uncommon for ER staff to give themselves an IV to rehydrate between ops. IV rehydration is direct and takes minutes. Drinking liquid takes up to an hour to actually have effect; not useful when you are running from multiple hours of surgery into the next multiple hours of surgery. And the last thing any ER doc is doing mid-surgery is stopping to drink water.

ER docs don’t perform surgery.  At least not in this country.  I agree with the rest of your IV takes though.

Edited September 16, 2022 by HeHateMe
Drinking

[Sam Lin 3559]

Sorry, any butchery of terminology is my own ignorance of hospital terms.

[Hawndoh 2386]

I have no connections to the medical industry and even I knew self administering IVs was a thing 

It was even in an episode of Scrubs when the characters had hangovers.

[Gene Parmesan 4007]

I've never seen it or heard about it with my wife being a hospital nurse for around 8 years.  I don't doubt it's a thing though.  Maybe it's more just ER docs/nurses which my wife wasn't.  I do think it sounds a little weird still being such a well known thing.  Are ER docs/nurses also more known for partying in their off hours?  I get their job is mentally and can be physically demanding, but it's not difficult to stay hydrated when working in an air conditioned building.

[Humble Beast 258]

2 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

I've never seen it or heard about it with my wife being a hospital nurse for around 8 years.  I don't doubt it's a thing though.  Maybe it's more just ER docs/nurses which my wife wasn't.  I do think it sounds a little weird still being such a well known thing.  Are ER docs/nurses also more known for partying in their off hours?  I get their job is mentally and can be physically demanding, but it's not difficult to stay hydrated when working in an air conditioned building.

I’m sure it’s more common amongst ER/OR personnel because they’re more familiar with starting IVs. And I would say that yes ER docs and nurses party more. ER nurses are typically young and fun. 

[Sam Lin 3559]

Nothing to do with partying in my circle of friends, it's a simple survival move to be able to operate on all the urgent cases and still function. There's been stories of them keeping chicken fingers in a scrub pocket to be able to grab a few bites as they run between cases. They regularly pull 16+ hour days. As mentioned, hydrating in the middle of an emergency surgery is not on anyone's mind. And yes it is in AC, but it is also nonstop full concentration, which is heavy exertion.

[Humble Beast 258]

Creepy videos included. 
 

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Humble Beast