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Posted
18 minutes ago, mwaadeeb said:

This is the problem I have with you and your ilk. You continue to say that we won in spite of Quinn Ewers, which is just objectively dumb and wrong (and considering our shit run of QBs over the years, insulting to fans of Texas football). 

what’s funny is that everything that’s happened since the draft process began has only strengthened the idea that Texas won in spite of quinn ewers. he did not perform particularly well at the combine or  his pro day, the people who’ve watched his film more closely now see/talk about more holes in his game, and he’s fallen down the qb rankings. hell, one of the main reasons that todd mcshay is pounding the “golden is the wr1 for this class” drum so loudly is because, and i’ll try my best to get the quote right here:

”you know he (golden) is a burner, and that he can catch, but when you watch the film, quinn ewers does him no favors. his catch radius, and his ability to consistently haul in balls that were poorly thrown, he made a ton of really impressive catches on bad passes last year and turned them into big plays.” but that’s objective, right? right.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, mwaadeeb said:

What's more objective than passing stats and wins?

first off, you assigning those wins to quinn is the opposite of objective. that’s the whole discussion here- did we win because of quinn or in spite of quinn. secondly:

 

2023 offensive starters:

quinn ewers

jonathan brooks

xavier worthy

jordan whittington

ad mitchell

jt sanders

kelvin banks

hayden connor

jake majors

dj campbell

cam williams

 

rank them for me, please and thank you. we can do 2024 next.

 

 

Edited by Derka
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Derka said:

2023 offensive starters:

quinn ewers

jonathan brooks

xavier worthy

jordan whittington

ad mitchell

jt sanders

kelvin banks

hayden connor

jake majors

dj campbell

cam williams

 

rank them for me, please and thank you.

 

 

Ranked:

Everyone on that list, but one...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hayden Connor whiffing on a trap block, sweep pull, pin and pull, or power

Edited by MuellerHorn
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Fico said:

QE is the 4th or 5th best player on that list, in a vacuum. But QB carries more weight...

i would say that he played his position better than, at most, 3 of those guys played their own position. as you said, qb holds more weight, so that does factor in. was quinn’s performance at qb objectively better than jordan whittington’s performance at slot? maybe. but of course we ask whittington to do so much less than quinn, that you’re going to rank quinn ahead of whittington, rightfully so.

but that’s kind of the point. he’s objectively not on par with teammates like mitchell, banks, worthy, or jonathan brooks, he’s more in the discussion with guys like whittington, or o linemen who now work some regular 9-5 job. throughout his career at Texas there was never a consistent period of time where he performed at the level of his better offensive teammates. he’s objectively never been one of our best offensive players, as he’s been surrounded by nfl talent and all conference/all american production. watch the difference in arch this year vs QE of the past. it won’t take long to see the difference.

Edited by Derka
Posted (edited)

another super mature, progressive contribution to the thread jj. you the man!

also funny that you mention sendlein in a sort of patronizing, punchline type of way, considering he started 124 games over his long and successful nfl career. let me know when quinn does the same.

Edited by Derka
Posted
1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Just for fun, let's dig in on this.

1.  NFL teams need more than a starter at QB.  Most carry 3.

2.  Ewers was far better than a "mediocre" college QB.

3.  Being one of the 2-3 worst players on one of the best offenses in college football, IF TRUE, is not necessarily as damning as you think it is.

Now that much of the gang is back I had to jump into the fray.

1.  You are correct on the first part.  You may be correct on the second.

2. This is a difficult one.  Objectively, based on the PFF grading system, he was at best mediocre in 2 of 3 seasons and one better than mediocre but not likely elite.

3.  OFEI says we were never a top 10 offense.  Yet the past 2 drafts say we had the draftable talent of a top 5 offense both in overall offensive talent but also top end talent.

43 minutes ago, mwaadeeb said:

What's more objective than passing stats and wins?

Oh but wait, that was because of the team, because our other QBs had worse teams, GTFO.

With the advent and availability of advanced stats, passing stats don’t tell anywhere near the story.

As referenced above, we have had/will have had tons of draftees the past two years.  We had the fastest combine 40 WR of all time.  We had the fastest pair of all time.  Then followed that up the next year with the fastest WR 40 time and the fastest WR top-end speed.  Three OTs drafted over the 2 years.  Two TEs drafted - in back to back years.  The highest drafted RB one year.

Objectively, no other QB had access to that level of mature talent.  No other Texas team can match that.

And as for wins, the past two years our backups are undefeated in their starts. One of those QBs reportedly was asked to leave his new program so he’s not the second coming of Patrick Mahomes.  Yet he won.

 

As for Ewers it’s all in front of him.  His experiences here have likely prepared him well for the next level.  He has some uniqueness to his game.  I’d bet he gets drafted higher than many expect - no later than round 2 is my bet.  I’d put his chances of success at pretty solid.  None of that changes his career here.  As for many QBs, he needs that right environment.

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Posted
43 minutes ago, Derka said:

another super mature, progressive contribution to the thread jj. you the man!

also funny that you mention sendlein in a sort of patronizing, punchline type of way, considering he started 124 games over his long and successful nfl career. let me know when quinn does the same.

What the fuck is your problem?  It's a legit question, it's not patronizing or a punchline, and the second half of your answer is exactly my point.  You can't look at a player's ordinal ranking on his own offense and draw sweeping conclusions, despite your insane insistence to the contrary.

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Posted
22 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

3.  OFEI says we were never a top 10 offense.  Yet the past 2 drafts say we had the draftable talent of a top 5 offense both in overall offensive talent but also top end talent.

This just furthers my point.  Claiming Ewers is just a guy because he was surrounded by elite talent is fucking stupid, but here we are.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

The stupidest thing I've read is Shough being the number 1 QB drafted.  Whichever son of a bitch that does that to his NFL team will not be long in the GM position.

Nico would do it.

Also, this thread has the aids.

Edited by Ghost of Shag
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Posted
36 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

This just furthers my point.  Claiming Ewers is just a guy because he was surrounded by elite talent is fucking stupid, but here we are.

I’m not following you.  Are you disputing my comments or just saying I’m a dumbass because I interjected the surrounding talent?

Posted
32 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

I’m not following you.  Are you disputing my comments or just saying I’m a dumbass because I interjected the surrounding talent?

I'm not sure where the struggle is.  Ewers' talent relative to his teammates doesn't necessarily say anything about his talent relative to the entire D1 talent pool.  If he's actually one of the 2-3 "worst" players on the UT offense (which I would probably dispute) then that means nothing if his surrounding talent is elite, which in general it is.

Posted
24 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm not sure where the struggle is.  Ewers' talent relative to his teammates doesn't necessarily say anything about his talent relative to the entire D1 talent pool.  If he's actually one of the 2-3 "worst" players on the UT offense (which I would probably dispute) then that means nothing if his surrounding talent is elite, which in general it is.

I am not sure I’ve ever said much about his talent being limited.  Generally, I’m never going to limit what a player can do.  He’s no different.  When I say he has some uniqueness to him, that is not meant in a negative sense.

But when one discusses actual production, that surrounding talent matters.  My life experiences tell me that slow pass catchers make your margin for error much smaller.  That any QB reads are more difficult because the defense remains condensed longer while at the same time creating less separation.  If you add in a mediocre pass protecting unit, then these timeframes are condensed even more.  And all this before you consider whether these pass catchers have above average to elite abilities to make defenders miss.  That has not been a Texas issue of late.  I’d say less so than any other team.  

Personally, I wouldn’t compare a G to a QB. Overall, in my opinion, our offense has underachieved relative to their talent the past 3 years.  Allocate that however you like.  It’s not one player or one factor.  

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Posted
2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

What the fuck is your problem?  It's a legit question, it's not patronizing or a punchline, and the second half of your answer is exactly my point.  You can't look at a player's ordinal ranking on his own offense and draw sweeping conclusions, despite your insane insistence to the contrary.

a)you’re still the only one of us who is being angry and insulting with every single post you make, but don’t let that stop you from convincing yourself that i’m the one with anger issues who projects them onto others.

b)you act as if your little one-line, inane post about an offensive lineman from 20 years ago was clearly germane to the discussion at hand, and not just you continuing with your general whiny, snarky, upset tone 

and c)if you really think that comparing an offensive guard to a qb in this situation is apples to apples then i just don’t know what to tell you. lyle sendlein was a starter for a national title team and a first team all big xii player. guys like that stick in the nfl all of the time. quarterbacks who can’t throw accurately, are zero run threat, have pocket jitters, terrible footwork, and a mediocre three year of body of work while surrounded by more talent than any other qb in the nation, don’t. so again, even if your supposed point had been clear, it was still a terrible analogy.

as for “what’s my problem”, that would be your generally hostile and shitty attitude.

Posted
2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

This just furthers my point.  Claiming Ewers is just a guy because he was surrounded by elite talent is fucking stupid

giphy.gif?cid=9b38fe91pinvasg2y4ivwnvzkf

quinn proved himself to be a jag by failing to meet the level of the elite guys he was surrounded by for three years. so not only can we look at his teammates like bijan, jonathan brooks, xavier worthy, kelvin banks, jahdae barron, jaylon ford, matthew golden, collin simmons, anthony hill, and on and on and on, and see that QE is nowhere near their level, we also got to witness him failing to carry his load in two consecutive cfb playoffs when we really didn’t need anything special from the qb to win back to back titles. just keep the chains moving, get the ball to your superior talent, and let the best defense in college football do its thing.

that was too much to ask from quinn ewers. instead of winning those titles we never even made either title game, and we nearly lost to arizona state in a round of 8 game where quinn was just plain bad during regulation.

so yeah, being surrounded all league, all american, and nfl talent and failing to meet that level, and failing to win games with said talent advantage does in fact make you a jag. the audacity for you to call other people stupid while making a claim like this is just- wow. 

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Had Enough said:

Now that much of the gang is back I had to jump into the fray.

1.  You are correct on the first part.  You may be correct on the second.

2. This is a difficult one.  Objectively, based on the PFF grading system, he was at best mediocre in 2 of 3 seasons and one better than mediocre but not likely elite.

3.  OFEI says we were never a top 10 offense.  Yet the past 2 drafts say we had the draftable talent of a top 5 offense both in overall offensive talent but also top end talent.

With the advent and availability of advanced stats, passing stats don’t tell anywhere near the story.

As referenced above, we have had/will have had tons of draftees the past two years.  We had the fastest combine 40 WR of all time.  We had the fastest pair of all time.  Then followed that up the next year with the fastest WR 40 time and the fastest WR top-end speed.  Three OTs drafted over the 2 years.  Two TEs drafted - in back to back years.  The highest drafted RB one year.

Objectively, no other QB had access to that level of mature talent.  No other Texas team can match that.

And as for wins, the past two years our backups are undefeated in their starts. One of those QBs reportedly was asked to leave his new program so he’s not the second coming of Patrick Mahomes.  Yet he won.

 

As for Ewers it’s all in front of him.  His experiences here have likely prepared him well for the next level.  He has some uniqueness to his game.  I’d bet he gets drafted higher than many expect - no later than round 2 is my bet.  I’d put his chances of success at pretty solid.  None of that changes his career here.  As for many QBs, he needs that right environment.

The talent is just a fact. Texas set a record for draft picks last year and they may break that this year. These were 2 of the most talented teams Texas has produced as a program. Quinn contributed to the wins and losses the last 2 years. I wouldn’t say he led Texas back. I think the defense is probably the biggest reason Texas for the recent success.  That stats confirm that 

Edited by Codaxx
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Posted
5 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

The talent is just a fact. Texas set a record for draft picks last year and they may break that this year. These were 2 of the most talented teams Texas has produced as a program. 

•look at what colt did behind a terrible o line, with no TE, no running game, essentially no nfl receiving talent, and greg davis calling plays

•look at what quinn did in a college career where he had ungodly riches everywhere around him, and how his performance just pales in comparison to what colt did under much shittier circumstances 

•compare and contrast 

if quinn has a better nfl career than colt did i will be genuinely surprised.

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Posted
35 minutes ago, Derka said:

a)you’re still the only one of us who is being angry and insulting with every single post you make

If you don't think this is insulting, then that explains everything about your broken brain.  Again, seek help.  I'm done with your illogical whiny bitch routine.

Quote

another super mature, progressive contribution to the thread jj. you the man!

 

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Posted

I remember watching him come back from injury during the 49-0 ou game and thought wow he’s gonna be a 1st rounder. Hadn’t seen anyone sling it like that here in forever.

We had worthy, ad, bond, and golden all underused.

Nonetheless, glad he chose to come to UT and end it here. It is what it is at this point.

Posted

This is getting tiresome. Y’all need to leave QE alone and let his future NFL success speak for itself.

I will say that, often injured, he was a huge part of the resurrection of the program that we all love. Came up “short” sometimes, sure, but at least our program was able to come up “just short.” Especially compared to the previous decade. QE helped get the Longhorns within reach of the pinnacle of dreams, but just didn’t do it.

I wish QE nothing but the best in his future career and appreciate his time on The 40.

Hook’em!!!

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Posted
3 hours ago, Derka said:

also it’s “Dixieland Delight”, but close enough lol.

Thanks for clearing up the "Dixieland Delight" song. I looked up "Dixie Wonderland" and was having a hard time trying to figure out why they'd celebrate the win with it...

 

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Posted
23 minutes ago, msucolt45 said:

Y’all need to leave QE alone and let his future NFL success speak for itself.

i can’t speak for everyone, but my thing about quinn is the same as my thing was for tevow back in 07 and 08- he’s not the problem, it’s his inexplicable cult-like following that’s so annoying. i don’t hate or even dislike QE, although i did openly dislike him when he showed up overweight and unkempt his first year here. after he’d trimmed down and had clearly spent the offseason taking himself and his craft more seriously, i don’t think i ever said another judgmental word about him that wasn’t football related. 

still, it’s not his fault that so much of longhorn nation anointed him the savior and then wildly inflated all expectations and actual results from him, which ultimately is why this thread has been so volatile. from people anointing him as a heisman contender and future first round/possible overall no.1 pick every offseason, to as recently as earlier this year when all of longhorns bbs-dom (here, twitter, reddit, the pay sites, etc) all had posts/threads asking, “if Texas wins the national title does quinn move up to second on the UT QB mount rushmore ahead of colt?”, as if that’s not the dumbest fucking question you’ve ever heard in your life. absent all of the fanboying that was 100% based on his HS rankings as a 16 year old and not on anything he’d done as a college qb, i don’t think quinn takes 90% of the heat he’s ended up taking. 

Posted (edited)

which, ftr, means i am absolutely rooting for him to succeed in the nfl. just because i don’t think he will doesn’t mean i don’t want him to. there have been a ton of Longhorns whom i didn’t expect to have good nfl careers who did so anyway, and i’ve been happy for all of them. if i have to eat my words about him i will do so happily. 

Edited by Derka
Posted

Derka - seriously, I’m an older guy and go back to the previous site. I’ve appreciated your insight on many topics over the years, especially basketball, but sometimes you just need to find a finality on a thread and just say I’ve stated my opinion enough.

Sometimes less has more impact than more. Just saying, as this thread is 50% bitching compared to content. Please keep contributing, but you really don’t have to respond to each post, that you think, is negatively directed towards you.

We’re all rooting for the same damn team and results!

Hook’em!!!

Posted

There is no cult-like following for Quinn with Texas fans. This thread was basically dormant for the last couple of months. 

I'd guess most fans think QE ended up an underachiever and a bit of a disappointment, and that's why there's not much of a discussion about his pro prospects.

 

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Posted
3 hours ago, immamac said:

If we got the Quinn that played in Tuscaloosa and Ann Arbor Texas doesn't lose a single game either season and is back to back national champions. 

We didn't get that Quinn, it's why he was so frustrating to watch, you knew he was capable of absolutely incredible things and for some reason that Quinn just didn't show up again. The TE room firmly believes it was injury from the conversations I have had with them. 

I like Quinn and think he will do better than most think in the NFL, but I will point out the painful truth about Alabama and Michigan games. They were both game 2 where Sark had an entire offseason to gameplan for them and Quinn had an entire offseason to study them on film while tuning up on a cupcake beforehand. It was peak Quinn, not every week Quinn. 

Posted

The young Quinn that played vs Bama, at home, was electric as a youngster. Until he got “pile drived” into the turf, in order to not come back. Man, what if that play never happened?

Hook’em!!!

Posted

If an NFL team can’t develop Quinn’s mental game…he’s not going to last. I’d be curious on any techniques they might use for this. He flat out looks like deer in headlights too many times…and his eyes in the huddle would make me nervous as a teammate.

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