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Posted
21 hours ago, mwaadeeb said:

This is the problem I have with you and your ilk. You continue to say that we won in spite of Quinn Ewers, which is just objectively dumb and wrong (and considering our shit run of QBs over the years, insulting to fans of Texas football). 

^^ The last two years' teams would not have been nearly as accomplished with say.... Swoopes, Heard, Buechele, or Card at QB. I'd debate Sam. Quinn was absolutely a high-floor QB that I think I'll look back on fondly, regardless of his shortcomings. He did not carry his team, he did not "will" his team. His teams were MUCH more talented than any teams to have played on the 40 over the past decade before him. He should be judged accordingly. But, he led, and he performed, most times. 

To say Quinn doesn't belong in the NFL is silly and narrow-minded. I've watched Trey Lance and Cooper Rush take snaps for the Dallas Cowboys. I'd take Quinn over either of those guys in a heartbeat. In fact, Sam, Shane and Garrett Gilbert have all been on multiple NFL rosters, to say Quinn isn't even on their level, or the hordes of no-name reserve QBs across the league, is silly. Quinn will be floating around the league 5 years from now and surly posters will still be posting GM-level opinions to the internet. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

I'm opening myself up for the group to throw white board erasers at me but Herman did "some" good things here.  All while banging women, being a drunk asshole and fucking up recruiting.  IMO, missing out on the Brocks and that final recruiting class finally did him in.

I'm of the opinion, perhaps wholly unfounded, that CDC wouldn't have hired Herman in the first place.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

Probably not, though we would've slaughtered him if it wasn't Tom.  Revisionist but I think 80% of us wanted him.  

Oh, I did, but I'm an idiot.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Oh, I did, but I'm an idiot.

We all did.  Looked like the right guy. If you were on o bloods back then. Fat ketch of all people raised flags.  Said he was a known drinker.  

Edited by Im_smarter_then_you
Posted
Just now, Im_smarter_then_you said:

We all did.  Looked like the right guy. If you weee on o bloods back then. Fat ketch of all people raised flags.  Said he was a known drinker.  

I never heard all of the sordid tales.  If there's a summary anywhere, please point me to it.

Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm of the opinion, perhaps wholly unfounded, that CDC wouldn't have hired Herman in the first place.

How often do predetermined hires work out after a firing?

 

Personally I feel like the fan base was enamored with him because of the Oklahoma win

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
22 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Felt like he plateau'd, I felt the same way and thought year 3 would be much stronger and guarantee himself a first round draft slot.

Agreed.  Also felt like the last couple of years he would look really good early against what were good defenses (Bama, Mich).  Then he would get banged up.  And was not the same guy.  Not saying he is a wimp, but he was not the same guy when he was walking wounded.

Posted
2 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

Agreed.  Also felt like the last couple of years he would look really good early against what were good defenses (Bama, Mich).  Then he would get banged up.  And was not the same guy.  Not saying he is a wimp, but he was not the same guy when he was walking wounded.

Whoever said it upthread I think hit the nail on the head. Those two games had all off-season to prepare for. When it came to the week to week games he seemed to struggle. Is it mental along with the injury/physical? 

Posted
2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I never heard all of the sordid tales.  If there's a summary anywhere, please point me to it.

I don't remember whether I posted about it.  But I know a guy who was a GA with Herman at Texas and they are buddies. 

He was pretty adamant that Herman's personal demons would preclude any sort of sustained success.  Tempered my enthusiasm about the hire.  He said Herman might win big early if we were lucky but would burn out.  Compared him to Billy Gillispie.  Also said his wife was a piece of work.  This guy liked Herman a lot but was concerned.

Posted

From a NFL.com article ahead of the draft.

 

 "Real smart, great kid, real self-aware," an NFC quarterbacks coach said. "Just the arm strength and some of the decision-making (are concerns). He's going to have a big jump, too, just as far as what's asked of him at the next level. But he's somebody you can see develop, develop, develop and then -- bang! Because there's a competitor there that's hard to teach and there's an intelligence factor there that's hard to teach." 

"He's a good player. He's got timing and anticipation. He's been coached well. And Steve -- I think they're a little careful," an AFC executive said. "But he's more player than talent. He's just not a big kid (6-2 1/8, 214). He's been hurt every year since high school. The arm's very average. There's not a lot of talent there. He's not a starter. He's a distributor. He's a point guard. He ain't going to push it down the field."

"The Texas kid, I wasn't a fan of," an AFC coordinator said. "He can hit short and intermediate, but he's like an all-arm thrower. He never uses his lower body and he's not accurate down the field."

"There's just no juice in his body," an NFC assistant coach said. "He's little. Arm strength lacks. Athleticism lacks. I don't really know the upside of that kid. When you put their film on and (Arch) Manning comes in the game, the ball is just jumping off his hand in comparison."

"Operation, decision-making, ball placement -- he's just the safest pick, although the ceiling is not high," an NFC coordinator said.

"Kind of just an average traits guy, but the kid's been through a lot," an AFC scouting director said. "You can't discredit his ability to overcome adversity. Arch Manning on his heels. We want to see guys that can handle pressure and fight through tough times, and he did that. S---, he had this guy breathing down his neck for two years. I like that part about him. But the rest is kind of average." 

"He's just good at a lot of things, and he can operate an offense," another NFC assistant coach said. "Is he going to be an elite guy or a Day 1 starter? No. But I think he could develop into a really good 2. I think he's got that type of ability. You first turn on the tape, he's making some really good ball-out throws. The ball comes out of his hand and he's accurate on that stuff. It's just when he's gotta start pushing the ball downfield, that's where some of the question marks come out."

Said an AFC scout: "There's some tools and ability there. He's been a little streaky at times. There's been some flashes of some big-time clutch plays in some moments in games, and there's times he's had some misses, too. Doesn't have a really big arm or dominant traits. Could be a functional starter, continue to grow. He's won some games."

Posted
7 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

From a NFL.com article ahead of the draft.

 

 "Real smart, great kid, real self-aware," an NFC quarterbacks coach said. "Just the arm strength and some of the decision-making (are concerns). He's going to have a big jump, too, just as far as what's asked of him at the next level. But he's somebody you can see develop, develop, develop and then -- bang! Because there's a competitor there that's hard to teach and there's an intelligence factor there that's hard to teach." 

"He's a good player. He's got timing and anticipation. He's been coached well. And Steve -- I think they're a little careful," an AFC executive said. "But he's more player than talent. He's just not a big kid (6-2 1/8, 214). He's been hurt every year since high school. The arm's very average. There's not a lot of talent there. He's not a starter. He's a distributor. He's a point guard. He ain't going to push it down the field."

"The Texas kid, I wasn't a fan of," an AFC coordinator said. "He can hit short and intermediate, but he's like an all-arm thrower. He never uses his lower body and he's not accurate down the field."

"There's just no juice in his body," an NFC assistant coach said. "He's little. Arm strength lacks. Athleticism lacks. I don't really know the upside of that kid. When you put their film on and (Arch) Manning comes in the game, the ball is just jumping off his hand in comparison."

"Operation, decision-making, ball placement -- he's just the safest pick, although the ceiling is not high," an NFC coordinator said.

"Kind of just an average traits guy, but the kid's been through a lot," an AFC scouting director said. "You can't discredit his ability to overcome adversity. Arch Manning on his heels. We want to see guys that can handle pressure and fight through tough times, and he did that. S---, he had this guy breathing down his neck for two years. I like that part about him. But the rest is kind of average." 

"He's just good at a lot of things, and he can operate an offense," another NFC assistant coach said. "Is he going to be an elite guy or a Day 1 starter? No. But I think he could develop into a really good 2. I think he's got that type of ability. You first turn on the tape, he's making some really good ball-out throws. The ball comes out of his hand and he's accurate on that stuff. It's just when he's gotta start pushing the ball downfield, that's where some of the question marks come out."

Said an AFC scout: "There's some tools and ability there. He's been a little streaky at times. There's been some flashes of some big-time clutch plays in some moments in games, and there's times he's had some misses, too. Doesn't have a really big arm or dominant traits. Could be a functional starter, continue to grow. He's won some games."

You know what's crazy, and I'm part of the crowd, but I thought Quinn had a cannon.  Seems like Arch has a stronger arm.  I think it was pretty unanimous that Quinn was a much better prospect than Arch.

Posted
3 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

You know what's crazy, and I'm part of the crowd, but I thought Quinn had a cannon.  Seems like Arch has a stronger arm.  I think it was pretty unanimous that Quinn was a much better prospect than Arch.

It's interesting you say this because @Red Five had a similar comment on the OTF thread this was posted on.

 

I think it's kind of what the scouts mentioned with his feet/lower body not matching his arm. He also doesn't use his arm strength at least consistently to his advantage, whether that is because he can or can't, I don't know which. IMO he's more a finesse thrower in a Drew Brees/Peyton(late years) sense and not really a Brady/Peyton(early years) drive the ball type. I said a while back in this thread when comparing him to QB's that are in the NFL now when they were coming out with elite arm talent he doesn't even compare to them. Look at the throws that Josh Allen, Herbert, etc make in the NFL...no comparison.

 

 

Posted (edited)

Quinn's arm never looked special to me.  He threw a nice, catchable ball.

Same thing with Simms.  Other than throwing short passes as hard as he could, I never was wowed with his arm.  When they put him on the radar gun at the combine, he was in the bottom half of participants.

Edited by Frank Drebin
Posted
4 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

Quinn's arm never looked special to me.  He threw a nice, catchable ball.

Same thing with Simms.  Other than throwing short passes as hard as he could, I never was wowed with his arm.  When they put him on the radar gun at the combine, he was in the bottom half of participants.

Simms was always hyped as a power arm guy.  But I had read that he looked pretty bad vs Carson Palmer at some bowl game.  Different level completely.  

I think Deshaun Watson had a very weak arm when they measured at the combine.  Like the weakest

Posted

In terms of velocity I don't know how anyone with eyes would think Ewers had anything other than average at best ability there.  His rating and him being our QB had everyone thinking something was there when it really wasn't. 

Posted
26 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

You know what's crazy, and I'm part of the crowd, but I thought Quinn had a cannon.  Seems like Arch has a stronger arm.  I think it was pretty unanimous that Quinn was a much better prospect than Arch.

I think Quinn has a pretty good arm. I have seen him unleash a few. The deep out vs Bama as a frosh was NFL level throw. He is more of touch passer though. You dont see him uncork it often. I also think the one scout was on the money. He is arm thrower. He doesnt always get his lower body involved in the thow and that takes away from his arm strength. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Derka said:

you can call it whatever you want, but there has never been a more mediocre, underwhelming, weak-link-in-the-chain player who has been so inexplicably exalted and singled out for praise by his fan base. from the perennial predictions of heisman trophies and being the no.1 overall draft pack despite his lackluster, hold-the-team-back play, to fans on this site (not to mention every other longhorn bbs) comparing him to colt mccoy and vince young as recently as this january, again, despite him being one of the worst players on the team. it’s fanatical behavior at minimum.

you then have the extremely emotional and combative reactions from our fan base any time anyone dares to state the obvious- that QE wasn’t some all-world qb and leader, and that he actually wasn’t performing up to the standard of everyone around him. you can trash any of his clearly-better teammates with impunity, but for three years, to be critical of quinn ewers was to incur the wrath of your longhorn brethren, no matter how obviously fair and accurate the criticism was. QE was off limits.

to this very moment, the majority of our fan base credits quinn, the player who held us back the most, who potentially prevented the rest of his absolutely loaded rosters from winning back to back national titles with his objectively underwhelming, non threatening playoff performances, with “bringing Texas Football back”. not sark, the real hero- not bijan, or banks, or worthy, murphy, sweat, barron, simmons, etc- our fan base credits the guy who actually held us back, with turning this program around essentially single-handedly, like he’s junior year vince young, and not pocket jitters david ash.

the outpouring of overly emotional “thank you quinn; seriously, thank you for everything” type posts ( it just here, but all over twitter, reddit, pay sites, etc) after he announced for the draft was so beyond bizarre and puzzling it was aggy-like. considering how loaded these last two teams were, and considering that QE, more than any other player, held us back from reaching our potential, i cannot imagine there ever being a more inexplicably overrated, exalted, beloved, and protected player in the history of Texas Football. you may not think that that’s a cult-like following- i do. whatever you call it, the guy has an undeniable pied piper dynamic with our fan base, one that will only look even more strange and inexplicable after arch manning reminds everyone here of what dynamic, top flight qb play and leadership actually looks like later this year. 

images(19).jpeg.6069242e7454b9c57322353deb907d69.jpeg

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Posted
1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

From a NFL.com article ahead of the draft.

 

 "Real smart, great kid, real self-aware," an NFC quarterbacks coach said. "Just the arm strength and some of the decision-making (are concerns). He's going to have a big jump, too, just as far as what's asked of him at the next level. But he's somebody you can see develop, develop, develop and then -- bang! Because there's a competitor there that's hard to teach and there's an intelligence factor there that's hard to teach." 

"He's a good player. He's got timing and anticipation. He's been coached well. And Steve -- I think they're a little careful," an AFC executive said. "But he's more player than talent. He's just not a big kid (6-2 1/8, 214). He's been hurt every year since high school. The arm's very average. There's not a lot of talent there. He's not a starter. He's a distributor. He's a point guard. He ain't going to push it down the field."

"The Texas kid, I wasn't a fan of," an AFC coordinator said. "He can hit short and intermediate, but he's like an all-arm thrower. He never uses his lower body and he's not accurate down the field."

"There's just no juice in his body," an NFC assistant coach said. "He's little. Arm strength lacks. Athleticism lacks. I don't really know the upside of that kid. When you put their film on and (Arch) Manning comes in the game, the ball is just jumping off his hand in comparison."

"Operation, decision-making, ball placement -- he's just the safest pick, although the ceiling is not high," an NFC coordinator said.

"Kind of just an average traits guy, but the kid's been through a lot," an AFC scouting director said. "You can't discredit his ability to overcome adversity. Arch Manning on his heels. We want to see guys that can handle pressure and fight through tough times, and he did that. S---, he had this guy breathing down his neck for two years. I like that part about him. But the rest is kind of average." 

"He's just good at a lot of things, and he can operate an offense," another NFC assistant coach said. "Is he going to be an elite guy or a Day 1 starter? No. But I think he could develop into a really good 2. I think he's got that type of ability. You first turn on the tape, he's making some really good ball-out throws. The ball comes out of his hand and he's accurate on that stuff. It's just when he's gotta start pushing the ball downfield, that's where some of the question marks come out."

Said an AFC scout: "There's some tools and ability there. He's been a little streaky at times. There's been some flashes of some big-time clutch plays in some moments in games, and there's times he's had some misses, too. Doesn't have a really big arm or dominant traits. Could be a functional starter, continue to grow. He's won some games."

whoever the first NFC coach is probably coaches for a dogshit team who has a terrible quarterback and is terrible. His entire perspective on quinn is so wrong it's actually hilarious - I thought he was talking about a different player. 

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Posted
35 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't really understand Sark and crew couldn't improve his lower body mechanics during his time in Austin.  Maybe a pro coach will do it.

I'd imagine in practice they probably look much improved just like he looks much different in 7on7 situations. Once the lights come on and shit hits the fan is when it goes haywire.

Posted

He used to have a strong arm. Not Elway, but upper tier in college probably. Then three years later it's "Um, he throws a nice ball to dudes standing next to him at the line of scrimmage." 

 

Posted
51 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't really understand Sark and crew couldn't improve his lower body mechanics during his time in Austin.  Maybe a pro coach will do it.

Quinn had a personal QB trainer….something Christensen. He worked with Mahomes as well. Have no further knowledge, but wouldn’t be surprise if Christensen was part of the problem. 

Posted
1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Quinn had a personal QB trainer….something Christensen. He worked with Mahomes as well. Have no further knowledge, but wouldn’t be surprise if Christensen was part of the problem. 

Quinn has had QB coach since about the time he shed his diapers. I am not sure anyone is going to be able to change his motion at this point. I think it is very ingrained. 

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