QB1 Quinn "La Joya" Ewers - The Man The Myth The Mullet

[Tex Long 4326]

14 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Would a spot-on swing pass caught at the line of scrimmage and run for 15 yards be better, worse, or the same as a crappy out pass for 15 yards that required the receiver to stop and be tackled at the spot rather than complete the YAC that was available?

Is 0/15 better or worse than 15/0? Is a short toss better or worse than a handoff?

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

3 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

Is 0/15 better or worse than 15/0? Is a short toss better or worse than a handoff?

An on-target pass which maximizes the play’s potential is a better pass than an off-target one which limits it. 

Whether a short toss is better or worse than a handoff depends on how the two are executed. The one Ewers threw on the first 4th down was worse. The one he threw on the first TD was better. 

Now, if your view and your preferred stat arrangement: Would a spot-on swing pass caught at the line of scrimmage and run for 15 yards be better, worse, or the same as a crappy out pass for 15 yards that required the receiver to stop and be tackled at the spot rather than complete the YAC that was available?

Edited September 4, 2023 by Doc Daneeka

[Tex Long 4326]

3 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

An on-target pass which maximizes the play’s potential is a better pass than an off-target one which limits it. 

Whether a short toss is better or worse than a handoff depends on how the two are executed. The one Ewers threw on the first 4th down was worse. The one he threw on the first TD was better. 

Now, if your view and your preferred stat arrangement: Would a spot-on swing pass caught at the line of scrimmage and run for 15 yards be better, worse, or the same as a crappy out pass for 15 yards that required the receiver to stop and be tackled at the spot rather than complete the YAC that was available?

You've answered your own question. Now you need a statistic that differentiates between "crappy" and "spot-on". Let's see it.

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, Tex Long said:

You've answered your own question. Now you need a statistic that differentiates between "crappy" and "spot-on". Let's see it.

No, the question was for you. If you want to see passing yardage differentiated between pre- and post-catch yardage, you must think that distinction is somehow valuable when, as you just implied, it really doesn’t speak to the value of the QB’s throw at all.

I happen to believe that a QB whose throws better support YAC — think Montana and Young — are more valuable whether the play was a 15 yard pass and 40 yard run or not. The distinction isn’t an inherently valuable one. 

[Codaxx 5588]

25 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

When he hits guys in open space and they take it for a big game, he doesn't deserve credit? 

This is a tough one. Typical screen is pretty much a team play. Do you give Brooks 40 yards and Quinn 0, despite Brooks going to the end zone untouched? He had the easiest job on the field. Selling it is more on the QB there, but most of the credit should go to the blockers. A quick arrow pass to RB, who breaks a tackle (Colorado game), most credit should go to the OC/RB. If you hit a check down that was your 3rd option under duress, the QB deserves yardage. You run a RPo and make the right read and Sanders goes untouched for 50 yards for a TD, not sure how you split that up. 

[Laga4 1270]

1 minute ago, Tex Long said:

You've answered your own question. Now you need a statistic that differentiates between "crappy" and "spot-on". Let's see it.

Really. Stats are out of control,  do we take away a completion that was off target but bounced off the defenders hands and ends up being complete? I guess adjusted stats are good for something but individual and team stats are good enough for me. 

[Codaxx 5588]

Just now, Laga4 said:

Really. Stats are out of control,  do we take away a completion that was off target but bounced off the defenders hands and ends up being complete? I guess adjusted stats are good for something but individual and team stats are good enough for me. 

I honestly doubt people have the man power to do this in college. One reason why have doubts about PFF. You have like 60 games a week. Just don’t see how they can legitimately watch each player on every play 

[Tex Long 4326]

4 minutes ago, Laga4 said:

Really. Stats are out of control,  do we take away a completion that was off target but bounced off the defenders hands and ends up being complete? I guess adjusted stats are good for something but individual and team stats are good enough for me. 

True, all of it. All I speculated in the first place is it would be helpful to have a stat that tells you at a glance whether your opponents' passing had a major run component or not. 

[gmr548 16463]

Would that have changed the perception that his footwork and decision making haven't improved any?

I think his decision making was good. I don’t recall a single ill advised throw, he tucked and ran on a few good opportunities, and didn’t take any “watch me run around and fumble this bitch” sacks like in the Baylor game last year.

His pocket presence sucks and most of his incompletions were bad misses.

[MrBig 5279]

4 hours ago, ChickenNuggets said:

Edit: Idk what it is with Quinn. He doesn't have the swagger like VY or the steely confidence of a Colt McCoy... I think Sark needs to get him into a rhythm during the game.. deep ball off first down just gets him behind the chains.

I don’t get it either. Quinn shows up with tattoos and a trailer trash mullet like he’s a bad motherfucker ready to play, but his energy on the field is like a scared Herman during the WVU 2-pt conversion. 

[Dbeasy 14953]

The wife has been adamant all last year and in the Rice game this year that since he got injured last year he’s played scared. Sure looks that way. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

5 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

The wife has been adamant all last year and in the Rice game this year that since he got injured last year he’s played scared. Sure looks that way. 

Wasn’t OU after he got hurt?

[jimmyjazz 45512]

3 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Wasn’t OU after he got hurt?

Of course it was.  So was the bowl game.  But, wife.

[derpyhorndog 2554]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

The wife has been adamant all last year and in the Rice game this year that since he got injured last year he’s played scared. Sure looks that way. 

I agree. And to your point, one example of his skittishness was critiqued earlier today by the longtime TXHS coach that Burton had on his show.

The critique was Quinn's hasty decision during the first 3rd down of the game to tuck it and roll/run despite the fact he was under no pressure. He ditched a super clean pocket and, along with it, two good locking reads on the left side of the field (JT and AD) he would have otherwise seen. Here's the timestamped video (1:10 in).

 

 

[LTtxfan 48927]

16 minutes ago, derpyhorndog said:

one example of his skittishness was critiqued earlier today by longtime TXHS coach that Burton had on his show. The critique was Quinn's hasty decision during the first 3rd down of the game to tuck it and roll/run despite the fact he was under no pressure. He ditched a super clean pocket and, along with it, two good locking reads on the left side of the field (JT and AD) he would have otherwise seen. Here's the timestamped video (1:10 in).

 

 

Coach Erwin comments on it...   13:40 mark

 

[6th Street 6340]

Opposing defenses are going to start begging Quinn to throw deep. This is not unlike a pickup game in hoops where everyone steps back and yells, "naw, let him shoot!"

[Codaxx 5588]

44 minutes ago, derpyhorndog said:

I agree. And to your point, one example of his skittishness was critiqued earlier today by the longtime TXHS coach that Burton had on his show.

The critique was Quinn's hasty decision during the first 3rd down of the game to tuck it and roll/run despite the fact he was under no pressure. He ditched a super clean pocket and, along with it, two good locking reads on the left side of the field (JT and AD) he would have otherwise seen. Here's the timestamped video (1:10 in).

 

 

Watched some of the offense again. It is amazing how many times you see OL getting perpendicular to the LOS in pass pro looking for people 

[hookem48 4631]

16 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Opposing defenses are going to start begging Quinn to throw deep. This is not unlike a pickup game in hoops where everyone steps back and yells, "naw, let him shoot!"

so they aren't going to cover guys deep? sweet

[6th Street 6340]

Sideline is all the defense they need against Quinn

[cochamps 1875]

5 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Sark insinuated in the presser it was a bad route. 

Both this pass to Worthy and the later one to Mitchell on the north end of the field were under thrown.  They look like pretty bad passes to me, but I've heard TV color guys say that the underthrow is a good pass because the db rarely makes a play, and you usually get a PI.  

Both of these plays involved really, really egregious PIs that were not called.  And to jimmyjazz question, that's because we were Yormarked.  He has blatantly said what many of us thought last year - he wants us to lose.  And clearly, he wants Rig 12 officials to know that.

 

[Hookem2147 20908]

12 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Sideline is all the defense they need against Quinn

[hobbes2702 12771]

13 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

This is my favorite feud on the site right now 

[DreadHead 110]

17 minutes ago, cochamps said:

Both this pass to Worthy and the later one to Mitchell on the north end of the field were under thrown.  They look like pretty bad passes to me, but I've heard TV color guys say that the underthrow is a good pass because the db rarely makes a play, and you usually get a PI.  

 

Yes, they looked bad and were short. But at least they were a lot closer to the receiver "catchable" compared to many last year. It just doesn't feel like it's enough of an improvement though. I want to see moxy and swag, confidence and leadership. And for Pete's sake, completing a higher percentage of the deep throws. 

[tx 3 putt 76158]

His legacy will be decided on Saturday 

[Codaxx 5588]

1 minute ago, DreadHead said:

Yes, they looked bad and were short. But at least they were a lot closer to the receiver "catchable" compared to many last year. It just doesn't feel like it's enough of an improvement though. I want to see moxy and swag, confidence and leadership. And for Pete's sake, completing a higher percentage of the deep throws. 

The 1st one to Worthy was under-throw, but certainly not terrible. The reason on the Mitchell throw is obvious. He is getting pressure right up the middle. He throws it off his back foot fading away. You can certainly argue that was a business decision, but that is pressure induced. 

[SubliminalHorn 6647]

4 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

His legacy will be decided on Saturday 

His and Sark’s

[Codaxx 5588]

29 minutes ago, cochamps said:

Both this pass to Worthy and the later one to Mitchell on the north end of the field were under thrown.  They look like pretty bad passes to me, but I've heard TV color guys say that the underthrow is a good pass because the db rarely makes a play, and you usually get a PI.  

Both of these plays involved really, really egregious PIs that were not called.  And to jimmyjazz question, that's because we were Yormarked.  He has blatantly said what many of us thought last year - he wants us to lose.  And clearly, he wants Rig 12 officials to know that.

 

If you miss on a deep throw, it is always better to miss short than long. Missing long has 0 chance of a good result. Missing short gives you a chance at PI or a play from your WR, obviously there are limits to how short 

[Dbeasy 14953]

1 hour ago, 6th Street said:

Opposing defenses are going to start begging Quinn to throw deep. This is not unlike a pickup game in hoops where everyone steps back and yells, "naw, let him shoot!"

Were you in Gregory Gym in the fall of 1982, because that sounds really familiar.

[gmr548 16463]

2 hours ago, Codaxx said:

Watched some of the offense again. It is amazing how many times you see OL getting perpendicular to the LOS in pass pro looking for people 

Rewatched today and JFC this. Ewers had 4-5 bad misses, mostly on deep shots, but beyond that was good. It's a flaw but one you can work around.

The pass protection from the guard spots was putrid. Keeping your head up and being aware that your tackle is going to pass a man off inside is foundational stuff and it was fucked up with significant consequences on multiple occasions. You cannot work around that.

[MAUFRAIS 6571]

Quinn had a better day than this westlake mongoloid for Clemson.

[52-80 19066]

10 hours ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Would a spot-on swing pass caught at the line of scrimmage and run for 15 yards be better, worse, or the same as a crappy out pass for 15 yards that required the receiver to stop and be tackled at the spot rather than complete the YAC that was available?

Is a 3pt basketball shot at a lower completion rate better than 2pt basket a higher rate?  (we know, we know, E.V.)

9 hours ago, Doc Daneeka said:

No, the question was for you. If you want to see passing yardage differentiated between pre- and post-catch yardage, you must think that distinction is somehow valuable when, as you just implied, it really doesn’t speak to the value of the QB’s throw at all.

I happen to believe that a QB whose throws better support YAC — think Montana and Young — are more valuable whether the play was a 15 yard pass and 40 yard run or not. The distinction isn’t an inherently valuable one. 

Whether you think such a measure has value is a subject judgement.  The measurement is the measurement, and let the people have it.  By the way, they track WR YAC too. 

[Hard Times 296]

9 hours ago, Codaxx said:

If you miss on a deep throw, it is always better to miss short than long. Missing long has 0 chance of a good result. Missing short gives you a chance at PI or a play from your WR, obviously there are limits to how short 

For any team not named Texas this may be true. But for any team playing Texas the DB can pick up the WR, body slam him into the ground, dive on the WR crown of helmet first and nothing will be called. Sark expecting a PI is laughable. When is he going to realize it's nothing but a wasted down and puts the team in 2nd and long?

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

3 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Is a 3pt basketball shot at a lower completion rate better than 2pt basket a higher rate?  (we know, we know, E.V.)

Whether you think such a measure has value is a subject judgement.  The measurement is the measurement, and let the people have it.  By the way, they track WR YAC too. 

Which is why you’ll see I wrote, “I happen to think…” not “It is a fact that…”

And, yeah, if we’re going to talk about EV, a good short pass that maximizes the play looks a lot better than a poor longer one that minimizes it. 

[LTtxfan 48927]

I'm pulling for the guy, but Quinn is a fuckin' beating in this interview -- just terrible.

Quinn starts around 36:25 mark. 

 

[Hard Times 296]

2 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

I'm pulling for the guy, but Quinn is a fuckin' beating in this interview -- just terrible.

Quinn starts around 36:25 mark. 

 

FCB needs a good punch in the face for his questions clearly asked just to criticize and demean our players.

[52-80 19066]

quinn still has some scalp and facial hair left to shave before we can call the end of the ewers experiment.

[Cajun 11675]

11 hours ago, Hookem2147 said:

We know, the thing?

[Nicole44 22023]

If we do beat Bama I can see a low scoring defensive type struggle. All Quinn needs to do is protect the ball which he did fairly well against Rice. Since we are throwing around stats and QBR and 49-0 (which will always be glorious even if OU was shell shocked and replaced their players with holograms—-a win is a win especially over the land thieves) and how well Quinn played v Bama before he was injured. But the rest of the season was an inconsistent mess for the most part looking at his play. I mean again a win is a win and we thumped Kansas but look at Quinn’s stats below. Maybe he wasn’t ready/healed enough or whatever from his injury. Maybe who cares because Bijan did his thing but…a win is a win and we thumped them running and didn’t really need to throw but when he did throw

 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

14 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

If we do beat Bama I can see a low scoring defensive type struggle. All Quinn needs to do is protect the ball which he did fairly well against Rice. Since we are throwing around stats and QBR and 49-0 (which will always be glorious even if OU was shell shocked and replaced their players with holograms—-a win is a win especially over the land thieves) and how well Quinn played v Bama before he was injured. But the rest of the season was an inconsistent mess for the most part looking at his play. I mean again a win is a win and we thumped Kansas but look at Quinn’s stats below. Maybe he wasn’t ready/healed enough or whatever from his injury. Maybe who cares because Bijan did his thing but…a win is a win and we thumped them running and didn’t really need to throw but when he did throw

 

Yeah. Protect the ball. Don’t give Alabama short fields or defensive scores. Make them earn every yard and point against Texas’ defense. If you can’t hit the long ball — please, hit the damned long ball — at least spot the intermediate throws so your guys can run after the catch. And protect the ball. 

I don’t think the game will be especially close. Guessing 10+ one way or the other. Ideally, Texas controls Milroe on the ground and eats him up in the passing game and comes out ready to get to 3-0 against Tech-killer Wyoming. 

[Hookem2147 20908]

21 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

If we do beat Bama I can see a low scoring defensive type struggle. All Quinn needs to do is protect the ball which he did fairly well against Rice. Since we are throwing around stats and QBR and 49-0 (which will always be glorious even if OU was shell shocked and replaced their players with holograms—-a win is a win especially over the land thieves) and how well Quinn played v Bama before he was injured. But the rest of the season was an inconsistent mess for the most part looking at his play. I mean again a win is a win and we thumped Kansas but look at Quinn’s stats below. Maybe he wasn’t ready/healed enough or whatever from his injury. Maybe who cares because Bijan did his thing but…a win is a win and we thumped them running and didn’t really need to throw but when he did throw

 

It was mid November in Lawrence. If I remember right it was like 30 degrees with gusty winds.

And when you rush for 427 yards it doesn’t matter one iota how the QB plays. We could have ran the ball every play and still won.

[Big_kat 334]

If there is a bit of a silver lining, Worthy seemed to be tracking balls much better in the air and making adjustments.  Quinn just needs to pick better spots and get more air under it.

[Nicole44 22023]

5 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

It was mid November in Lawrence. If I remember right it was like 30 degrees with gusty winds.

And when you rush for 427 yards it doesn’t matter one iota how the QB plays. We could have ran the ball every play and still won.

Agreed. Just pointing out other games in which he was wildly inconsistent as opposed to the notable two that get mentioned when posters are defending Quinn. He did great v Bama and Oklahoma. We dominated Kansas by running as I mentioned. Nothing is set. His future isn’t set. Maybe he is lights out the rest of this season. But two games or really 1 and 1/2 games from last year do not tell the whole story. I want to be wrong and I am not set in either camp when it comes to him but I think we would all agree that the consistency is NOT there and there are other troubling things from the Rice game.
 

 I bring these up bc people can’t just look at Bama and OU and not look at the bulk of his play from last year considering his play Saturday. He protected the ball well against Rice and his short and intermediate passes were what I would expect considering the hype. Another game’s stats from last year (again we should all take into consideration it was his first year playing as the starter and all that.) he protected the ball well against Rice and that’s what we need him to do against Bama. 

 

[Hookem2147 20908]

Yeah, let’s not do the thing where we re-dissect every Ewers game last year for the 50th time.

[Nicole44 22023]

2 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Yeah, let’s not do the thing where we re-dissect every Ewers game last year for the 50th time.

Jesus. Let’s not dissect anything then. 

[Huckleberry 32684]

Man some of this thread during and right after the game was weird. Murphy threw the worst pass of the day for Texas (Johntay Cook had an easy TD with a minimally competent throw). The backup QB infatuation will never die. 

[JesusSweatDuck 17780]

9 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Jesus. Let’s not dissect anything then. 

I dissected a fetal pig as a freshman in highschool, but I don't know why you're calling me out

[Nicole44 22023]

1 minute ago, JesusSweatDuck said:

I dissected a fetal pig as a freshman in highschool, but I don't know why you're calling me out

Why did you not help out Clemson last night? Dabo said it was God’s team. That’s pretty shitty Jesus. 

[UTEX90 584]

31 minutes ago, Big_kat said:

If there is a bit of a silver lining, Worthy seemed to be tracking balls much better in the air and making adjustments.  Quinn just needs to pick better spots and get more air under it.

He is getting too much air under it.  Worthy is tracking better but he is having to adjust by slowing down and/or stopping giving time for the DBs to catch up.  Ewers actually needs to throw it with less arc or get it out quicker and trust that Worthy will get there.  I have rarely seen Ewers overthrow a deep ball.

[CashMcCoy 3199]

Cade Klubnik, 5* Boy Wonder, is ranked 111th in our favorite stat QBR after Week 1. Nine spots below that idiot from Nebraska. He must have skipped his senior year of high school too.

[horn4life 3753]

There is one thing that will help Ewers and the team.  Run the damn Ball!!!!!

Tossing incompletes on first down, whether they are bombs or 5 yard drops, puts the team behind the chains.  Run the damn ball effectively and all of a sudden you get a few looks at 2nd and 2-3.  THIS is when you take shots downfield!

If you take a shot downfield on a short yardage 2nd down, two good upsides can happen with the deep ball.  1st and best is a deep completion that puts the defense on its heels. 2nd is a check off underneath most likely to a back in space. 3rd is the QB stepping up in the pocket and scampering a couple yards forward for a first down.  

While the surprise of a 1st down deep ball can be deadly, the risk vs reward is not there for me.  Moving the chains is the goal.  If you achieve the small goal repeatedly you don't even need the deep ball. You just grind them up methodically.  But zero yards on first down is a recipe for disaster for most teams.  Two downs for 10 yards is a lot different than 3 downs for 10 yards.  And that is never, ever going to change.