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Dallas Cowboys 2022 Regular Season Thread: Fuck Jerry Jones


Vic Mackey

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3 minutes ago, DougO said:

Right. The moves that the Cowboys made or didn't make, that triggered so many fans into convulsion, tended heavily to be the correct moves. Still, the lack of a legit swing tackle was probably the worst one, but that one is sort of working out so far, knock on wood. Could use a receiver, but Gallup is starting to look more like his better version, and hopefully Washington can contribute something, now supposedly TY Hilton is another option until he inevitably gets hurt.

How much of the situation is it that Dak actually made a guy like Cedrick Wilson and so when he's in a system in Miami with Tua, he's fallen off? If we signed Cedrick Wilson would his numbers be comparable to last years versus the horrid ones of this year?

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2 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

How much of the situation is it that Dak actually made a guy like Cedrick Wilson and so when he's in a system in Miami with Tua, he's fallen off? If we signed Cedrick Wilson would his numbers be comparable to last years versus the horrid ones of this year?

You never can tell, a lot of things have to align for player success. It's not always that simple. I don't think many people thought Noah Brown would be as good a receiver as he has been this season when he was fully healthy and had to play a larger role. Same kind of thing. Tua isn't the same type of passer that Dak is, either, not better or worse, but different style.

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I wish Dak would spend the entire offseason working on lofting touch throws over DBs instead of forcing low bullet passes through three defenders on the way to the intended receiver. And Kellen Moore should spend the same on scheming stuff like that better. And it preceded Dak. Too many tight spaces, not enough timing, getting iso one-on-one stuff. 

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3 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Didn't he retire last year? Or more of no one wanted him this year, not sure which. Not sure what to make of this signing. M

Here's an article about it...

Cowboys add veteran T.Y. Hilton to wide receiver corps

Todd Archer   ESPN Staff Writer

Quote

FRISCO, Texas -- The flirting with Odell Beckham Jr. might not be over, but the Dallas Cowboys on Monday added another veteran wide receiver -- T.Y. Hilton.

"The timing is right," coach Mike McCarthy said Monday. "He's ready to go. He's an excellent addition, especially at this time of year."

Hilton has not been with a team all season, but the Cowboys felt the need to add veteran wide receiver help. In 10 seasons with the Indianapolis Colts, Hilton caught 631 passes for 9,691 yards and 53 touchdowns. He was a four-time Pro Bowl pick.

Hilton had just 23 catches for 331 yards and 3 scores last season, playing in only 10 games.

Beckham visited the Cowboys last week as he recovers from a torn ACL in his left knee suffered in Super Bowl LVI. Micah Parsons said Beckham told him he would need five weeks to get ready to play, which would mean he would be ready only for the playoffs and maybe even late in the postseason.

After the victory Sunday against the Houston Texans, owner and general manager Jerry Jones said he would not rule out the possible addition of Beckham.

Hilton joins a receiver crew that includes CeeDee Lamb, Michael Gallup, Noah Brown, James Washington, KaVontae Turpin and Jalen Tolbert.

"I think as you view this thing as this push through December and into January, the availability for guys is obviously going to be smaller and smaller so for us to have a guy like T.Y. available, he can come in here and he's going to be able to deal with the transition it will take this late in the season," offensive coordinator Kellen Moore said Monday. "As a veteran he knows ball. He's really, really smart. To have a guy like that, he'll be able to handle the transition really, really well and provide some depth. We'll see where all the roles transpire."

Hilton missed the first five games of last season because of a disk injury that occurred late in training camp in August, and he missed two other games during the season because of a quadriceps injury and a concussion. After missing a total of just two games in his first six NFL seasons with the Colts, he missed 16 games over four seasons because of an assortment of injuries.

Hilton spent the majority of his 10 seasons as the Colts' No. 1 receiver, including a stretch in which he had at least 1,000 yards receiving in five of six seasons.

 

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15 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Whose roster spot does he take? Tolbert? Washington hasn’t been on the 53 due to IR right?

Washington played this past Sunday

Not sure whose spot on the roster but they probably hope he takes Noah Brown's number 3 spot eventually in a couple of games. 

Edited by Hermanator
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4 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Washington played this past Sunday

Not sure whose spot on the roster but they probably hope he takes Noah Brown's number 3 spot eventually in a couple of games. 

Noah Brown has did pretty well this year relative to what we expected (which was nothing). And that takes into account playing with Rush half the year. I'm not sure a declining who hasn't played in a year is going to be expected to come in here and be the #3 guy. If anything, they see him as replacing Washington, who had a big bag of nothing. 

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2 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Noah Brown has did pretty well this year relative to what we expected (which was nothing). And that takes into account playing with Rush half the year. I'm not sure a declining who hasn't played in a year is going to be expected to come in here and be the #3 guy. If anything, they see him as replacing Washington, who had a big bag of nothing. 

He's done well.

But if they only wanted Hilton to replace the number 4 receiver in a system that operates the best with 2 or 3 TEs and 1 to 2 RBs on the field then why even sign him? 

I think they have to be hoping he shows to be a bit more dynamic than Brown going into the playoffs otherwise it didn't make any sense to sign him. 

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14 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

He's done well.

But if they only wanted Hilton to replace the number 4 receiver in a system that operates the best with 2 or 3 TEs and 1 to 2 RBs on the field then why even sign him? 

I think they have to be hoping he shows to be a bit more dynamic than Brown going into the playoffs otherwise it didn't make any sense to sign him. 

I assume to add depth and just in case there are any injuries going forward. If they want Hilton to step in and be the #3, that is a huge ask. It would be one thing if he played this year but he hasn't. Doesn't mean he doesn't have it in him but he's going to need to show a lot. We'll see if him and Dak can build any rapport this quickly.

I still think it's either the OBJ interest went south as he doesn't seem too serious about this season and they wanted to appease people to sign someone with a name or Washington was so bad that they needed someone to try and replace him for our stretch run.

 

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32 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Noah Brown has did pretty well this year relative to what we expected (which was nothing). And that takes into account playing with Rush half the year. I'm not sure a declining who hasn't played in a year is going to be expected to come in here and be the #3 guy. If anything, they see him as replacing Washington, who had a big bag of nothing. 

Washington was so good at OSU, was hoping he'd find a way to make some plays. Still holding out hope, but it's too late in the season, get healthy and hope he gets another shot next year. Who knows what Hilton has, he's not an attention whore like OBJ who probably wasn't worth the headache. If he still has it, awesome, if not, not much lost. Really wish there were some CB's out there looking for a roster and worth a shot.

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39 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I am 99% sure OBJ isn't healthy and in shape.  There's no reason to refuse running routes if you're ready to go.

This is what surprised me and I'm glad the Cowboys didn't just sign him sight unseen. Who in their right mind in any profession or walk of life thinks they can just waltz into a highly favorable deal without interviewing and/or overcoming some preconceived objections?

OBJ saying "I'm not gonna even run, much less do any WR drills or workouts even though I just had a major knee injury for the 2nd time in a year and you should just trust me that I'm still elite" was really, really weird to me.

In a seeming response to that, the Cowboys signed TY Hilton and the Bills have signed Cole Beasley out of retirement. I guess if the NYG are desperate enough they will reunite with OBJ but they are quickly fading from any postseason dreams so why bother?

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Washington was so good at OSU, was hoping he'd find a way to make some plays. Still holding out hope, but it's too late in the season, get healthy and hope he gets another shot next year. Who knows what Hilton has, he's not an attention whore like OBJ who probably wasn't worth the headache. If he still has it, awesome, if not, not much lost. Really wish there were some CB's out there looking for a roster and worth a shot.
Agreed. The injury did him in for this season. I think Dallas knows that after the Houston game. Which is why they made this signing I think
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Kellen = Garrett. Absolutely zero experience and he gets to learn on the job and us fans and this offense suffer because of it in the end. This is just one small example of how vanilla and simplistic this offense is. All our routes are generic and predictable. Nothing going up the field. So many curls and outs. We don't make the defense adjust to what we are doing and guess. Kellen has zero business being an OC. But he's Jerry pet and he is desperate to groom someone he can point to as he is the one who discovered him

 

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On 12/12/2022 at 12:54 PM, babysdaddy said:

that game yesterday would've been a blowout had Turpin not fumbled.  14-0 after that drive and Houston would've laid down or start trying to throw more which then would get the pass rush going.  If we get out to an early lead we roll.

and props to Jerry/McClay/stephen on signing jason peters.  Going to pay off huge it looks like.

Feel the same way.  AT least 10-0 puts everything in a different light.  Then the Shutlz drop and the failed 4th and 2, and those alone are 10 points that change the look of the enctire game.  34-23 looks VASTLY different than 27-23 and the Cowboys wouldn't have been behind and forcing passes late in the 4th quarter with Ball at RT being a turnstile.

 

It was NOT good by any means and they should be embarrassed.  However just 1 or 2 things go differently and it's a blow out.

15 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

TY is cool and all, but not sure why they guaranteed his money.  seems like a bad decision, but F Jerry ig

They still have like almost 20 mil in cap space this year.  It's a deal for this year only...does it really matter?

3 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Kellen = Garrett. Absolutely zero experience and he gets to learn on the job and us fans and this offense suffer because of it in the end. This is just one small example of how vanilla and simplistic this offense is. All our routes are generic and predictable. Nothing going up the field. So many curls and outs. We don't make the defense adjust to what we are doing and guess. Kellen has zero business being an OC. But he's Jerry pet and he is desperate to groom someone he can point to as he is the one who discovered him

 

I think that's a bad generalization, but he does default back to some of the same plays from time to time that hurts them.

 

I really just don't think they don't design plays to beat the Zone Defenses that seem to give them issues.  The WR's can't run routes against, or not find the spots to sit in, and Dak gets antsy waiting for the pressure since they're not blitzing.  Unlike a lot of QB's, the Blitz does NOT affect Dak at all...he eats it up.  But when they're rushing 3-4 and dropping everyone else, this offense grinds to a halt most of the time.  

That's the OC and play designs more than anything.  Kellen has a bright mind a LOT of what he does is very good...but this like this really hurts him.

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3 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Kellen = Garrett. Absolutely zero experience and he gets to learn on the job and us fans and this offense suffer because of it in the end. This is just one small example of how vanilla and simplistic this offense is. All our routes are generic and predictable. Nothing going up the field. So many curls and outs. We don't make the defense adjust to what we are doing and guess. Kellen has zero business being an OC. But he's Jerry pet and he is desperate to groom someone he can point to as he is the one who discovered him

 

So you want to run gos from the +15?

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I think that's a bad generalization, but he does default back to some of the same plays from time to time that hurts them.
 
I really just don't think they don't design plays to beat the Zone Defenses that seem to give them issues.  The WR's can't run routes against, or not find the spots to sit in, and Dak gets antsy waiting for the pressure since they're not blitzing.  Unlike a lot of QB's, the Blitz does NOT affect Dak at all...he eats it up.  But when they're rushing 3-4 and dropping everyone else, this offense grinds to a halt most of the time.  
That's the OC and play designs more than anything.  Kellen has a bright mind a LOT of what he does is very good...but this like this really hurts him.

What do Garrett and Linehan and Moore all have in common? Career back up QBs. Taught to avoid risk. Run the basics. It shows in their simple offenses. Moore is a terrible play caller.
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I don't get all the Moore hate. There's things I wish he'd do differently but this year he's figured out how to unleash Pollard while still getting the most possible out of Zeke, has a QB who is inconsistent and has been throwing picks, and still has an offense that's near the top of the league. He's not terrible by any means. 

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Moore is the OC. This team hasn’t presented defenses with anything beyond simple routes in years, hence times where all our receivers can’t seem to open a mid to deep route. Pollard is getting his carries because Zeke is nearly used up. Our TEs are a nice group and he often forgets about them. Our play calling can often be predictable and baffling at the same time.

The primary reason for our success has been our huge disparity in sacks. Before Texans getting 41 sacks and giving up only 15. Against the Texans we got no sacks, no pressures and struggl d to win the game against a shitbag team.

Dak starting slow. The lack of development. Not taking advantage of his running. Dak hasn’t progressed since Jon Kitna left the building. That shit is on Moore.

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I don't get all the Moore hate. There's things I wish he'd do differently but this year he's figured out how to unleash Pollard while still getting the most possible out of Zeke, has a QB who is inconsistent and has been throwing picks, and still has an offense that's near the top of the league. He's not terrible by any means. 

Yes, the running game is elite. The passing game? Not so much. Dak has to start better. You won’t go very far throwing first-half picks and falling behind in the postseason.
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My biggest problem with Moore is the trick plays that never work, and usually lose yards. There's a middle ground between being too basic and being too flashy. He hasn't found that balance and he should have by now if this team is ever going to win a Super Bowl. He also seems really bad at adjustments. It seems that for entire halves and sometimes entire games, if the defense has figured it out, we just keep at it and play like shit, instead of adjusting to whatever they're throwing out there. But when it works right off the bat, we are usually pretty good at keeping it up. I do like that Pollard is exploding and we've found multiple ways to utilize Lamb, so maybe he's finding it, I just don't like him. A Super Bowl run would change my mind.

Edited by 'stache
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4 minutes ago, 'stache said:

My biggest problem with Moore is the trick plays that never work, and usually lose yards. There's a middle ground between being too basic and being too flashy. He hasn't found that balance and he should have by now if this team is ever going to win a Super Bowl. He also seems really bad at adjustments. It seems that for entire halves and sometimes entire games, if the defense has figured it out, we just keep at it and play like shit, instead of adjusting to whatever they're throwing out there. But when it works right off the bat, we are usually pretty good at keeping it up. I do like that Pollard is exploding and we've found multiple ways to utilize Lamb, so maybe he's finding it, I just don't like him. A Super Bowl run would change my mind.

The trick plays always come at the worst time, too. Usually when we have a good drive going and it's 1st and 10. It goes nowhere or loses yards and boom, momentum lost. Also, they are so predictable as it unfolds and it's always that lame jet sweep. Just keep going downfield instead of these sideways plays that so much has to go right for it to be successful. 

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4 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

 

 

The pass to Noah Brown was a thing of beauty and really set us up to take the win. Also, the scramble and the pump fake for extra yards was awesome.

But it's Dak so he won't get credit for driving 98 yards to win the game. It was also another game winning drive from him, which he has quite a few in his career. That drive was all him. Should have won it a play before but Gallup dropped the ball at the end. I liked the 3rd down call as well. Houston spread out looking to defend the pass and we ran it right up the middle for an easy score. We also did it all on our own. Baker Mayfield got 3 big penalties to help his drive.

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22 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Kellen = Garrett. Absolutely zero experience and he gets to learn on the job and us fans and this offense suffer because of it in the end. This is just one small example of how vanilla and simplistic this offense is. All our routes are generic and predictable. Nothing going up the field. So many curls and outs. We don't make the defense adjust to what we are doing and guess. Kellen has zero business being an OC. But he's Jerry pet and he is desperate to groom someone he can point to as he is the one who discovered him

 

Moore was the pet of Scott Linehan in Detroit before both were run out of town because the offense was so overly predictable. Dallas got Linehan as OC and brought midget boy wonder with him to run the same boring shit. It worked when they went really run heavy behind a great offensive line, but they got figured out and got away from the run. Then Garrett promoted Moore. Kellen has never studied under an offensive brain, or had multiple gurus to learn from. I don't know where Jerry got the idea he was a lock to be the future of NFL offenses, but that's what we've been stuck with. I'm sure after the season we will be hearing again from the opponent's D how they were calling out our plays before every snap. 

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7 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

That last drive, there were a couple of throws that barely eluded defenders’ hands in transit. Is that skill or luck?  Several did get deflected throughout the course of the game and were a big reason for drives ending and the offensive struggles. 

A little of both, and Dak made a great throw there, and a few other times. But that's the problem with what they do in the passing game. The margin for error is razor thin. It's not going to work consistently enough to succeed at a playoff level against better teams.

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Just now, DougO said:

Moore was the pet of Scott Linehan in Detroit before both were run out of town because the offense was so overly predictable. Dallas got Linehan as OC and brought midget boy wonder with him to run the same boring shit. It worked when they went really run heavy behind a great offensive line, but they got figured out and got away from the run. Then Garrett promoted Moore. Kellen has never studied under an offensive brain, or had multiple gurus to learn from. I don't know where Jerry got the idea he was a lock to be the future of NFL offenses, but that's what we've been stuck with. I'm sure after the season we will be hearing again from the opponent's D how they were calling out our plays before every snap. 

Exactly. The Garrett/Linehan/Moore coaching tree for offense has to be one of the worst ever. Not one single guy is any good at calling an offensive game or gameplanning. Or adjustments. And we have had all 3 in succession for over a decade.

Just like Garrett did, Moore had a little bit of a fast start when he began. He was the boy wonder. Once he was figured out quickly, the season unraveled and he's never adjusted. At all.

Our offense works when individual guys win their assignments. We don't deceive anyone. No complex routes. Everything is just bland and generic. This can work at lower levels when you just out talent the other team. NFL doesn't work like that. Hence why we always come up short in the playoffs against good teams. We never adjust once they figure out our offense (which usually doesn't take long). 

After the Rams playoffs game, they came out and talked about how they knew exactly what we were doing on both sides of the ball. Infuriating. 

People say they don't want Mike to take over playcalling or the offense and focus on the offense. Fuck that. Any thing to get Kellen's hands off the game is the better. But this is Jerry being desperate to have his own version of Landry. A long tenured coach he can take credit for. Hell, he hired Garrett before he hired Wade in 2007. After not one team wanted Garrett. The plan was always to have Garrett take over after a few years. And I fully believe Garrett sabotaged Wade in the final year. He wanted that job. Didn't matter if Garrett lost every game to end 2010. He was always going to be our next coach. Sad because we had talent for Super Bowls in his tenure but he's so terrible, he offset any of that. Great coaches or even good ones, can get the most out of the talent and make it work. Garrett/Kellen are the opposite. They have a lot of talent and get the least out of it.

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54 minutes ago, 'stache said:

My biggest problem with Moore is the trick plays that never work, and usually lose yards. There's a middle ground between being too basic and being too flashy. He hasn't found that balance and he should have by now if this team is ever going to win a Super Bowl. He also seems really bad at adjustments. It seems that for entire halves and sometimes entire games, if the defense has figured it out, we just keep at it and play like shit, instead of adjusting to whatever they're throwing out there. But when it works right off the bat, we are usually pretty good at keeping it up. I do like that Pollard is exploding and we've found multiple ways to utilize Lamb, so maybe he's finding it, I just don't like him. A Super Bowl run would change my mind.

Moore still has that Boise St in him. He has some sort of fealty to calling trick plays that don't even build off of previously called plays. I noticed the same thing with Harsin in his lone year as the Longhorns OC. On your second critique it's similar to some of the issues us Longhorn fans see with Sark, Moore tends to not build counters off of his plays and tightens his grip and starts to become less diverse in his play calling if teams effectively adjust to what he's doing. 

Edited by Catdaddyhorn
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Something I've noticed: Last week, the offense came out early with a heavy play action passing attack. Right out of the chute, we were throwing on first and second down with great success. When you have dangerous runners, PA freezes the pass rushers as well as the D-backs. It simply increases the odds of success on any given passing play, plus the QB gets an extra second or so to pick the right receiver, step into his pass, etc.

What I've noticed several times is that when we hit the 3 or 4 minute mark at the end of the half (or game), we stop using it. That's fine against crappy teams with mediocre pass rushes, and Dak's been a little lucky, but when the big game comes, all kinds of shit is gonna go wrong. And the worst part of that equation is that he's got an RB or two VERY capable of ripping off a quick ten or fifteen yards and Moore has taken that threat out of the game. Not only is there a lot less risk for an error, but when you've got someone like Pollard carrying the ball, he has a far greater chance of breaking a 30 or 40-yarder, or even a 70-yarder than any receiver. They know how to hold onto the ball. They've been doing it their whole careers. I'd take a ten yard pop around end any day over a ten yard quick pass into good coverage.

Just watch, Dak's gonna blow a giant game late with a risky pass, primarily because the offense has stopped using all its tools and put the game squarely on his shoulders.

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3 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Exactly. The Garrett/Linehan/Moore coaching tree for offense has to be one of the worst ever. Not one single guy is any good at calling an offensive game or gameplanning. Or adjustments. And we have had all 3 in succession for over a decade.

Just like Garrett did, Moore had a little bit of a fast start when he began. He was the boy wonder. Once he was figured out quickly, the season unraveled and he's never adjusted. At all.

Our offense works when individual guys win their assignments. We don't deceive anyone. No complex routes. Everything is just bland and generic. This can work at lower levels when you just out talent the other team. NFL doesn't work like that. Hence why we always come up short in the playoffs against good teams. We never adjust once they figure out our offense (which usually doesn't take long). 

After the Rams playoffs game, they came out and talked about how they knew exactly what we were doing on both sides of the ball. Infuriating. 

People say they don't want Mike to take over playcalling or the offense and focus on the offense. Fuck that. Any thing to get Kellen's hands off the game is the better. But this is Jerry being desperate to have his own version of Landry. A long tenured coach he can take credit for. Hell, he hired Garrett before he hired Wade in 2007. After not one team wanted Garrett. The plan was always to have Garrett take over after a few years. And I fully believe Garrett sabotaged Wade in the final year. He wanted that job. Didn't matter if Garrett lost every game to end 2010. He was always going to be our next coach. Sad because we had talent for Super Bowls in his tenure but he's so terrible, he offset any of that. Great coaches or even good ones, can get the most out of the talent and make it work. Garrett/Kellen are the opposite. They have a lot of talent and get the least out of it.

That's a lot of words and I get the bitching but since Dak has been back we are looking pretty good

 

 

 

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That's a lot of words and I get the bitching but since Dak has been back we are looking pretty good
 
 
 
But there's still tons of flaws with Kellen. And how he will fare in the playoffs. Regular season is fine and dandy but unless this team makes a deep playoff run, it will be yet another disappointment.
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The trick plays always come at the worst time, too. Usually when we have a good drive going and it's 1st and 10. It goes nowhere or loses yards and boom, momentum lost. Also, they are so predictable as it unfolds and it's always that lame jet sweep. Just keep going downfield instead of these sideways plays that so much has to go right for it to be successful. 

Jet sweep is an honesty play for the secondary on all levels of football. It’s never meant to be a 30 yard play, even though sometimes it is.

And when the announcers call it a reverse I rage.
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