Job hunting - A different kind of happy ending

[Chicken fried bacon 46]

On 3/18/2023 at 8:14 PM, chikin23 said:

This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but I’m seriously considering a career change. This is my 16th year of being a public school teacher and it has gotten harder and harder to stay in each year. My salary will never be much more than it is now and when we do get a raise it’s generally offset by a rise in our insurance premiums.

Reading through this thread it doesn’t seem like now is a very good time to start looking anyway but, if I were, are people even hiring former educators that may not have experience in that field but bring other useful skills to the table?

I have seen a few sales jobs on Linkdin related to education.  Mainly software. 

[HamsterHookah 112]

Saw this from WSJ and thought of you guys on this thread: https://www.wsj.com/articles/that-plum-job-listing-may-just-be-a-ghost-3aafc794?

Quote

 

A mystery permeates the job market: You apply for a job and hear nothing, but the ad stays online for months. If you inquire, the company tells you it isn’t really hiring.

Not all job ads are attached to actual jobs, it turns out. The labor market remains robust, with 10.8 million job openings in January, according to the Labor Department. At the same time, companies are feeling budgetary strains and some are pulling back on hiring. Though businesses are keeping job postings up, many roles aren’t being filled, recruiters say.

Hiring managers acknowledge as much. In a survey of more than 1,000 hiring managers last summer, 27% reported having job postings up for more than four months. Among those who said they advertised job postings that they weren’t actively trying to fill, close to half said they kept the ads up to give the impression the company was growing, according to Clarify Capital, a small-business-loan provider behind the study. One-third of the managers who said they advertised jobs they weren’t trying to fill said they kept the listings up to placate overworked employees.

Other reasons for keeping jobs up, the hiring managers said: Stocking a pool of ready applicants if an employee quits, or just in case an “irresistible” candidate applied.

Postings for “ghost jobs,” as recruiters and candidates sometimes refer to them, can be frustrating for job seekers.

 

 

[Shaggy3.0 1695]

25 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Other reasons for keeping jobs up, the hiring managers said: Stocking a pool of ready applicants if an employee quits, or just in case an “irresistible” candidate applied.

 

I see this a lot in tech.  Companies want to keep a "candidate bench" ready for productivity gaps.  Problem with this strategy:  you weed out many good candidates because tech interviews have very little structure (other than algos and system design ???s).  Good luck to everyone. 

[Voldemort86 2259]

“Irresistible” candidate theory always pisses people off because those rarely ever exist. If said employee was that good, they would already be employed somewhere.

 

[Macanudo 12975]

On 3/20/2023 at 11:23 AM, Chicken fried bacon said:

I have seen a few sales jobs on Linkdin related to education.  Mainly software. 

Teaching is a good springboard into training as well.  Having an e-learning background with Captivate and a LMS system is a huge plus.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Mac, I wish I could train you how to do my job. Well, actually that’s the east part. You have a functioning brain, so I could teach you the application in two weeks, just not give you the experience that companies look for. For the past year I have gotten on average 2 emails/calls a week about job opportunities. Had one call on Tuesday with a pay range of $75-100/hr. I mean, that’s not what Surly money, but it’s a living.

[Macanudo 12975]

On 3/23/2023 at 7:38 AM, Patricio Swayze said:

Mac, I wish I could train you how to do my job. Well, actually that’s the east part. You have a functioning brain, so I could teach you the application in two weeks, just not give you the experience that companies look for. For the past year I have gotten on average 2 emails/calls a week about job opportunities. Had one call on Tuesday with a pay range of $75-100/hr. I mean, that’s not what Surly money, but it’s a living.

I mean, yeah, I could eke out an existence on that kind of hourly rate.   But barely.   

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

I mean, yeah, I could eke out an existence on that kind of hourly rate.   But barely.   

Hahaha

I highly doubt I will ever take a salaried position again. Unless it’s an obscene amount where I don’t feel like a slave if overtime is needed.

[Mother mopar 3318]

Joining the crowd today. Was laid off along with 22 others via an 8 min blank-screen zoom meeting. Loved this gig, the travel, and the people I worked with. However, all good things must come to an end I suppose.

[Pato del Muerto 52485]

Lay off here as well now. 100 of us, half the company. 
 

but I have a question for those in HR or employment attorneys (Texas):

if the company hand book says they pay out unused PTO but the language is specific to separation started by the employee and has nothing about if the company terminates with or without cause, and also says the company has discretion to change the policy as it wants, does the company have to notify employees in writing of a change, and would they be legally required to pay out PTO otherwise?

I’ve heard rumors that they won’t be paying out, and I have around 100 hours. Nothing in the letter about reduction in workforce addresses a change to the PTO policy. 

@troph I was told downthread you may be able to answer/help?

and I worry that if  I ask them, they might realize they have a gap and shore it up with a letter to cover it. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Pato del Muerto

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

That’s some bullshit if you don’t get paid your PTO.

I sincerely hope all y’all looking find jobs soon. That 14 months for me during COVID really sucked.

[tx 3 putt 76873]

Keep a log of all the jobs job apply too 

I applied to 5 jobs last night, I had four responses before 8am this morning 

🤞🏽🤞🏽🤞🏽

[Macanudo 12975]

11 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

Keep a log of all the jobs job apply too 

I applied to 5 jobs last night, I had four responses before 8am this morning 

🤞🏽🤞🏽🤞🏽

4 positive, "let's set up time to talk" responses?    

Well fuck me.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

4 positive, "let's set up time to talk" responses?    
Well fuck me.

O&G is hot right now. Had interview last week. Same day another email about a job. Just received two more today. Kind of crazy.

[tx 3 putt 76873]

10 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

O&G is hot right now. Had interview last week. Same day another email about a job. Just received two more today. Kind of crazy.

The lng stuff is very interesting 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

The lng stuff is very interesting 

Yeah, two recent inquiries were LNG related.

[Pato del Muerto 52485]

4 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

That’s some bullshit if you don’t get paid your PTO.

I sincerely hope all y’all looking find jobs soon. That 14 months for me during COVID really sucked.

Agree. I earned that pay. I just don’t know where to ask to get clarification- can’t find anything on Texas workforce commission site. And finding and calling an employment lawyer doesn’t feel like it would be cost efficient. 

[Handcruser 2805]

Agree. I earned that pay. I just don’t know where to ask to get clarification- can’t find anything on Texas workforce commission site. And finding and calling an employment lawyer doesn’t feel like it would be cost efficient. 

Ping troph.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

18 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

Ping troph.

GoLL and DDDad do employment law, as well.

[troph 24781]

I’m a corporate lawyer and do a little bit of employment as it relates to that, mostly equity comp and some exec comp so I do touch on the issues but if an employment law guy comes around and disagrees with me go with their take.

My understanding is under Texas law PTO is not a cash benefit unless the contract or handbook says it is. Here the handbook is actually silent on the exact way your employment is terminated which supports a default rule there is no cash benefit. State employers and some larger companies do expressly state it’s a cash benefit, most small to mid sized companies take the exact opposite position.   I’m honestly surprised there’s even one scenario where it says it’s a cash out. You can try and argue but I highly doubt they will flinch.  IF they have counsel they are mostly talking about avoiding discrimination, being consistent with any severance packages and complying with any HR related matters for the layoffs, if this comes up they will likely handle it in stride and say it doesn’t apply to you. That would be my advice if I was their attorney.  They will probably amend that section too. If Fuckers.

Edited April 4, 2023 by troph

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Damn. That’s some bullshit.

When I got let go because COVID mothballed the project I was on, I got my PTO. But I worked for an Australian company. I guess they are more civilized than us.

[Pato del Muerto 52485]

16 hours ago, troph said:

I’m a corporate lawyer and do a little bit of employment as it relates to that, mostly equity comp and some exec comp so I do touch on the issues but if an employment law guy comes around and disagrees with me go with their take.

My understanding is under Texas law PTO is not a cash benefit unless the contract or handbook says it is. Here the handbook is actually silent on the exact way your employment is terminated which supports a default rule there is no cash benefit. State employers and some larger companies do expressly state it’s a cash benefit, most small to mid sized companies take the exact opposite position.   I’m honestly surprised there’s even one scenario where it says it’s a cash out. You can try and argue but I highly doubt they will flinch.  IF they have counsel they are mostly talking about avoiding discrimination, being consistent with any severance packages and complying with any HR related matters for the layoffs, if this comes up they will likely handle it in stride and say it doesn’t apply to you. That would be my advice if I was their attorney.  They will probably amend that section too. If Fuckers.

Can I get them on a technicality that if I put in 2 weeks notice and separate before the day they specified in their WARN notice?  Surely not, but yes?

[troph 24781]

I’d definitely like an employment lawyer to chime in. 
 

[Mother mopar 3318]

Had my first interview yesterday and it went well but the salary and associated travel to/from the site are a deal breaker for me.

Have another one set up for this afternoon as a Business consultant for a European aviation software firm. This one excites me, so we'll see.

[Mother mopar 3318]

Not sure if anyone has used the website jobscan.com but I've used it for about 8 years...back when it was completely free. It helps match your resume up with a job description to help beat an ATS. It's an awesome tool for any job seeker.

Now it charges for the full benefit but does have some free features. You can maximize it with a paid subscription YMMV.

[fattyflattie 4639]

On 4/3/2023 at 4:49 PM, Patricio Swayze said:

O&G is hot right now. Had interview last week. Same day another email about a job. Just received two more today. Kind of crazy.

This was my situation about 9 months ago, but haven’t gotten any calls in a few months now.   I’ve put my name in to fill an executive spot that recently opened, but I’m not sure I want that smoke. It’s been floated out before, but I’m not sure I have the want to that it demands.  

Genuinely feel for those of you still searching.  I hope you are able to keep your psyche strong.   

[Tylerocks 2553]

Furloughed in December, finally received an offer this week.

New industry, so a little scared but excited to learn and think there could be some growth here.

 

Over the last couple months, I grew into the habit of blindly applying via LinkedIn, Indeed, ZipRecruiter etc.  Jobs which I was a "perfect fit" based on what they're looking for and my background in Acct Mgmt only to either get ghosted completely or get that automated rejection email.

My only advice here to those of you still out there is to forget those websites and lean on your network.  I didn't do it enough.  The majority of interviews that progressed past an intro call were from friends/former colleagues. 

 

Best of luck to all of you looking.  Keep the faith (as hard as it is)....It WILL happen!

Hook 'em

[HamsterHookah 112]

8 hours ago, Tylerocks said:

Furloughed in December, finally received an offer this week.

New industry, so a little scared but excited to learn and think there could be some growth here.

 

Over the last couple months, I grew into the habit of blindly applying via LinkedIn, Indeed, ZipRecruiter etc.  Jobs which I was a "perfect fit" based on what they're looking for and my background in Acct Mgmt only to either get ghosted completely or get that automated rejection email.

My only advice here to those of you still out there is to forget those websites and lean on your network.  I didn't do it enough.  The majority of interviews that progressed past an intro call were from friends/former colleagues. 

 

Best of luck to all of you looking.  Keep the faith (as hard as it is)....It WILL happen!

Hook 'em

What are the OTE's like now for your role (sales, I'm guessing)? I ask because I assume they are depressed from what they were a year ago. Lots of talent on the street right now who would take basic offers of an average base + commission comp plan is my guess.

[TKthunder2 4985]

13 hours ago, Tylerocks said:

Furloughed in December, finally received an offer this week.

New industry, so a little scared but excited to learn and think there could be some growth here.

 

Over the last couple months, I grew into the habit of blindly applying via LinkedIn, Indeed, ZipRecruiter etc.  Jobs which I was a "perfect fit" based on what they're looking for and my background in Acct Mgmt only to either get ghosted completely or get that automated rejection email.

My only advice here to those of you still out there is to forget those websites and lean on your network.  I didn't do it enough.  The majority of interviews that progressed past an intro call were from friends/former colleagues. 

 

Best of luck to all of you looking.  Keep the faith (as hard as it is)....It WILL happen!

Hook 'em

Ziprecruiter is only good for two things.

It allows people actually looking to hire to reach out to you with requiring that you apply better than most other sites not named LinkedIn, and you can quickly apply for 5 jobs in less than a minute to satisfy your unemployment requirements, which it also keeps a record of in case they ever audit you and ask for it.

Other than that it’s not very good at actually placing applicants. Agree your network is 100x better than Ziprecruiter.

[Mother mopar 3318]

Had my first interview yesterday and it went well but the salary and associated travel to/from the site are a deal breaker for me.

Have another one set up for this afternoon as a Business consultant for a European aviation software firm. This one excites me, so we'll see.

Things looking up, have my second round of interviews for the Business Consultant role tomorrow.

[Underdog 28581]

Got a rejection email today from a place I interviewed with back...  Wait for it... 

 

March 1st.  LMAO.  

[Macanudo 12975]

13 hours ago, Underdog said:

Got a rejection email today from a place I interviewed with back...  Wait for it... 

 

March 1st.  LMAO.  

Dude.   There are positions that I applied for and didn't get the "thanks but not thanks" email for upwards of 90 days after application.   Of the 10 open apps I have right now, only 2 of them are from March.  I applied for one of them on February 8th and have gotten nothing other than the original confirmation.

I have said this before but the way companies handle applicants and/or interviewees says a lot about how shitty they run their HR and hiring processes.   I understand that they get a shit ton of applications.   Before July, I was regularly hiring people.  And I had to wade through all the applications too.   But I made decisions with 48-72 hours of an application with regards to whether that candiate would continue on.  Our HR partner sent out the reject emails almost immediately after that.   If we interviewed someone but it was a firm no, we let them know quickly as well.   

It's all bullshit.

[statsman 5451]

I got laid off last October (design manager in Aerostructures firm that was dropping engineering) and started new job a couple of weeks later. Saw the layoff coming, networked hard and managed the transition. Severance package was good- six months pay, pro-rated 15% bonus. The employee severance policy states that they can stop it if you hire on with a company they “partner” with, and aerospace is very inbred, so I’ve kind of ghosted most of the people I worked with (not many of them left there). Six months is almost up, so I guess I can update LinkedIn soon. 
 
I went from being a manager to being an individual contributor on new job. That’s harder than I thought- learning a lot of new systems seems to be easier for the younger guys. Did you guys know they don’t really use Fortran anymore? I’ve upped the coffee intake- I don’t get to set the pace now. Also, I’ve usually worked for large aerospace companies that considered mass layoffs to be a failure of management planning. The new place looks at mass layoffs as if they were colonoscopies- generally unpleasant experiences that are periodically necessary for overall general good health. I’m not crazy about that. 
 
I need about nine more years. I’m not sure I’ll get it all here. I’m not sure I want to. Career thinking is over- hey, I managed a design team on a major aerospace program, already. This is just a job now. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by statsman

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Lulz Fortran. Last time I did Fortean was my freshman year at Texas in a class with Ricky Williams.

[Pato del Muerto 52485]

On 4/3/2023 at 8:41 PM, TwiceHorn said:

GoLL and DDDad do employment law, as well.

@troph @DDD Dad @Ghost of LL

hello lady and gentlemen, I have a confusing issue and would like some help if possible. 
 

got my notice of layoff late March, 60 days notice per WARN requirement.  This past Friday, they verbally inquired about whether I would stay.  I don’t really wish to stay at this time after the huge layoff, but I don’t understand my options. 
 

Can they just rescind the termination notice and pretend it never happened?  If I decline to stay on, do I give up my right to unemployment benefits?  who has the burden of proof in that?  
 

Some of my contacts for future employment are under a non-soliticitation agreement. A layoff makes that null and void I think, but if I accept the offer to stay is that a separation and rehire that also (maybe?) voids any solicitation claim?

I don’t know how comfortable those people would be in hiring me now, knowing that I will have turned down the option to stay. 
 

I don’t know my rights and basic googling hasn’t helped. Any direct input or putting me onto the right path would be appreciated.  
 

and actually paying to retain a lawyer seems like it would be more costly than it’s worth even if there is a fight to be had. 

[troph 24781]

I don’t know if a layoff rescinds a non-solicitation that’s contract specific, it’s enforceability too. I am not an employment lawyer so someone with WARN Act experience needs to chime in but I bet it’s a new offer of employment from a state law perspective / unemployment but I would get confirmation. 

[Pato del Muerto 52485]

1 hour ago, troph said:

don’t know if a layoff rescinds a non-solicitation that’s contract specific, it’s enforceability too

Are you saying it might be possible that a company can separate me through no fault, and still restrict where I can seek another job with the people most likely to hire me because they know me from the job I was just separated from?

When you throw something in the trash, don’t you lose claim to it?

[troph 24781]

9 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Are you saying it might be possible that a company can separate me through no fault, and still restrict where I can seek another job with the people most likely to hire me because they know me from the job I was just separated from?

When you throw something in the trash, don’t you lose claim to it?

Depends on the contract language and it’s enforceability and the employer’s desire to enforce it if the language is there.

[Ghost of LL 15531]

I’d really need to read the contract.  An employer can rescind WARN notice. But what the contract allows is a different matter.

[troph 24781]

3 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

I’d really need to read the contract.  An employer can rescind WARN notice. But what the contract allows is a different matter.

I did not know that - also doesn’t look like that’s what they are doing. 

[Mother mopar 3318]

The search is over, I officially signed my contract today with a company that I'm thrilled to help grow. LinkedIn and my network continue to be very powerful resources.

For those still searching, hang in there and continue to network and lean on your contacts. Referrals are by far the easiest way to navigate ATS and the associated circus.

[NAVY 6740]

On 12/7/2022 at 4:28 PM, Macanudo said:

99 Days since I started and submitted my 100th app today.    I started using Jobscan to check my CV and cover letter last week.   I thought I was doing a pretty good job of matching up my resume with the job req but decided to give it a whirl.    More of a difference than I thought there would be and now each resume really looks like the job description so hopefully I can get by the ATS if that was what was messing me up.

The good new is that I had a 1st round interview with a company here in Houston that went well.    I left being told that I'm moving on to round 2 but there is an internal candidate so that shit sandwich might get served again.    I've had that happen twice so far where an internal candidate was the hire.  

So, 100 applications and 4 interviews.    86 closed reqs or declines.   I'm so far below the Mendoza line it's not even remotely funny.

Jobscan is legit. Just started using it and boom. What a difference. I was wasting my time before this shit.  High-Lee recommend

Much love at @Macanudo for the find 

https://www.jobscan.co

Edited May 5, 2023 by NAVY

[Mother mopar 3318]

Jobscan is legit. Just started using it and boom. What a difference. I was wasting my time before this shit.  High-Lee recommend
Much love at [mention=1243]Macanudo[/mention] for the find 

https://www.jobscan.co

I posted earlier in this thread that I've been using it for years and it's a huge asset to use as a job seeker. Glad the secret is starting to get out.

Another tool to use is a word cloud generator to match your resume with a job's KSAs. Tons of free websites that do it but hopefully it helps someone else.

[NAVY 6740]

6 minutes ago, Mother mopar said:

I posted earlier in this thread that I've been using it for years and it's a huge asset to use as a job seeker. Glad the secret is starting to get out.

Another tool to use is a word cloud generator to match your resume with a job's KSAs. Tons of free websites that do it but hopefully it helps someone else.

Much appreciation to you as well sir. I shouldn’t be shocked that an impressive CV isn’t enough when algos abound sorting. 

[HamsterHookah 112]

Every time this thread is bumped I am hoping it’s Macanudo telling us about his dream offer!

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

I’m sorry if this ruffles the feathers of any resident recruiters, but y’all are lazy as fuck. I know it’s a numbers game, but be better. I am tired of recruiters approaching me that have neither read my resume nor understand what my job is.

My latest response to someone contacting me while I am currently employed.



I know y’all let keyword searches do most of y’all’s jobs, but he better. If you can’t, kindly fuck off (despite my typo).

[Voldemort86 2259]

29 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

I’m sorry if this ruffles the feathers of any resident recruiters, but y’all are lazy as fuck. I know it’s a numbers game, but be better. I am tired of recruiters approaching me that have neither read my resume nor understand what my job is.

My latest response to someone contacting me while I am currently employed.



I know y’all let keyword searches do most of y’all’s jobs, but he better. If you can’t, kindly fuck off (despite my typo).

It is fucking  bullshit how recruiters can be lazy, mess something up, or forget about something, but the jobseeker has to be “perfect”.

[Macanudo 12975]

17 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

Every time this thread is bumped I am hoping it’s Macanudo telling us about his dream offer!

Bwahahaha.  

As to the recruiter stuff, spot on.  I've had more than one approach me with an job opportunity that was nothing like I do or have done.  One was for an aviation company that requires a degree in aerospace engineering.   Dumbass recruiter already had my resume from a previous role.   It clearly says my degree (not aerospace engineering.)

[Brisketexan 105074]

Every time this thread is bumped I am hoping it’s Macanudo telling us about his dream offer!

Me too.

But then, there just aren’t that many jobs like this out there:

[Murfdogg21 4412]

On 4/23/2023 at 2:19 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

Are you saying it might be possible that a company can separate me through no fault, and still restrict where I can seek another job with the people most likely to hire me because they know me from the job I was just separated from?

When you throw something in the trash, don’t you lose claim to it?

I am not a lawyer but hired one who does employment when I was “terminated without cause” a few years ago. The spiteful owner of the small company had an overly broad non-compete that he forced all employees to sign (on your first day of work, after having left your previous job and possibly relocated, without having seen or known about it before). It effectively banned any employee from working for another company in the entire spine or biologic device industry (even if a different role) in any state where they had ever made sales for a period of 12 months. It was so broad it shouldn’t be enforceable, yet they threatened lengthy and expensive legal action nonetheless. I negotiated a settlement and stayed out is the industry for a shorter period of time. Complete horseshit.