Maalik Murphy unfucked Duke, who else needs a QB miracle?

[Red Five 41407]

1 minute ago, Horn80 said:

MM appears to be a project that needs more developmental time than Sark should be dedicating to it considering the results thus far and circumstances.

And realistically, we're not going to reap the benefits of his development. That's why this is so frustrating. The guy that we are going to need to develop, for next year, is on the bench.

[Wulaw Horn 19513]

3 minutes ago, Horn80 said:

MM appears to be a project that needs more developmental time than Sark should be dedicating to it considering the results thus far and circumstances.

That was always going to be the case and the take never made sense. 
sark just infatuated with the size and arm strength and figured why not. This is why not. Rather have a bus driver in between Quinn and arch. Looks like he did that this year. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2866]

He's working out the kinks.  This is all fine.

 

[Hookem2147 21650]

4 hours ago, Longboard Horn said:

Maybe he's afraid to get hit?

Considering he would rather throw passes intended for Hayden Conner than take a sack or throw the ball away, there might be some truth to this.

[SarkAfterDark 1714]

Arch has had since Spring to win the QB2 job. He obviously hasn't to this date but some of you think it's a good idea to just throw him out there to see what he has. Reminds me of the bama fanbase clamoring for one of their other QBs earlier this season, Rees making the call and going with Buchner/Simpson only for those guys to put on display why they didn't win the job to begin with. Sometimes the QB on the bench is there for a reason. Obviously Sark thinks MM gives us the best chance to win in the absence of Ewers and so far that has held true. Those of you acting like it's unfathomable that Manning is worse need to pump the brakes. Can't imagine the shit show it would be if Manning came in and stunk up the joint.

[Horn80 6311]

2 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Arch has had since Spring to win the QB2 job. He obviously hasn't to this date but some of you think it's a good idea to just throw him out there to see what he has. Reminds me of the bama fanbase clamoring for one of their other QBs earlier this season, Rees making the call and going with Buchner/Simpson only for those guys to put on display why they didn't win the job to begin with. Sometimes the QB on the bench is there for a reason. Obviously Sark thinks MM gives us the best chance to win in the absence of Ewers and so far that has held true. Those of you acting like it's unfathomable that Manning is worse need to pump the brakes. Can't imagine the shit show it would be if Manning came in and stunk up the joint.

User name checks out.

[Red Five 41407]

3 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Those of you acting like it's unfathomable that Manning is worse need to pump the brakes.

I think that thought absolutely horrifies us. 

[Frank Drebin 5791]

2 hours ago, Atticus said:

That's recruiting more than development. MM is playing 2 years too early, he's had a QB coach for at least 9 years and still has throwing mechanics like he's only been playing backyard 7 on 7 his entire life. He also has injury issues that have slowed his development. Unfortunately, our failure to protect Quinn forced him into action before he was ready.

My biggest issues are with his decision making. I know he's hurt but he's gotta know his limitations, learn from his worst mistakes, and keep things simple until Quinn gets back. 

His improvisation helped us win the game though. That 4th down throw to JT in the 4th quarter was probably not where the pass was supposed to go (look at Whittington), but he directed JT open and made the throw.

This is for another thread, but in this day and age you probably should not be recruiting QBs who need 3-4 years of development to be good.

[kevwun 16091]

I choose to believe Sark and the Arch's family have an agreement that he's not playing this year.  Practice reports from pretty reliable people had him ahead of where they thought he would be by the end of fall camp.

Edited November 6, 2023 by kevwun

[6th Street 6627]

At the very least, Arch needs to come in on every 3rd series as a change of pace. 

I also don't buy the zero playing time thing - you can play 4 games and preserve redshirt. They want him to start day 1 next year without ever stepping foot on a the field? And this is during a once in a decade year where Texas is in a title hunt? That doesn't pass the sniff test.

[Hookem2147 21650]

12 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Arch has had since Spring to win the QB2 job. He obviously hasn't to this date but some of you think it's a good idea to just throw him out there to see what he has. Reminds me of the bama fanbase clamoring for one of their other QBs earlier this season, Rees making the call and going with Buchner/Simpson only for those guys to put on display why they didn't win the job to begin with. Sometimes the QB on the bench is there for a reason. Obviously Sark thinks MM gives us the best chance to win in the absence of Ewers and so far that has held true. Those of you acting like it's unfathomable that Manning is worse need to pump the brakes. Can't imagine the shit show it would be if Manning came in and stunk up the joint.

It goes much deeper than this.

It was in the best interest of the program this year to make sure Murphy stuck around and that Arch could be eased along slowly. There was zero benefit to naming Arch the backup even if the coaches think he is better than Murphy (which I'm gonna guess they do). And I'm sure most of us expected Murphy to at least be competent enough to where if he needed to fill in for a short time we could get by. That floor and safety net we thought Murphy offered while we could keep Arch protected is now nonexistent, and if Ewers misses this week his injury becomes more than just a short term thing. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Hookem2147

[SarkAfterDark 1714]

4 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I think that thought absolutely horrifies us. 

I'd fear for some of you guys safety if that turned out to be the case. It's obvious some here have already attached themselves to the Manning wagon. And this is despite never seeing him take a snap in a college football game. It's absurd really, I believe Sark is making the best decision here and everyone needs to be patient regarding both MM and Arch.

[6th Street 6627]

Not playing Arch reminds me of Mack scared to play Cedric Benson due to blocking. And then he had Brett Robin out there trying to block Roy Williams instead. Murphy is essentially the Brett Robin of 2023.

[LateAughtsHorn 588]

I haven't seen anything from Maalik this year that is that much worse than Quinn's okie state game last year. Difference is, this team is actually playing for shit in November, so everything Maalik does is magnified. Especially since we haven't been in this position for over a decade. 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by LateAughtsHorn

[Hookem2147 21650]

2 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Not playing Arch reminds me of Mack scared to play Cedric Benson due to blocking. And then he had Brett Robin out there trying to block Roy Williams instead. Murphy is essentially the Brett Robin of 2023.

[Red Five 41407]

4 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

It's obvious some here have already attached themselves to the Manning wagon.

Some of us understand the situation. 

[SarkAfterDark 1714]

1 minute ago, Hookem2147 said:

It goes much deeper than this.

It was in the best interest of the program this year to make sure Murphy stuck around and that Arch could be eased along slowly. There was zero benefit to naming Arch the backup even if the coaches think he is better than Murphy. And I'm sure most of us expected Murphy to at least be competent enough to where if he needed to fill in for a short time we could get by. That floor and safety net we thought Murphy offered while we could keep Arch protected is now non-existent, and if Ewers misses this week his injury becomes more than just a short term thing. 

We are 2-0 with MM as our starting QB, so the floor and safety net has been just fine. However some of you placed unreasonable expectations on MM and now are calling for his head that he hasn't lived up to them. There was always going to be growing pains. He is another kid that hasn't really had any live reps because for the last 2 years this team just refuses to blow anyone out. Now a lot of you are doubling down and transferring those unrealistic expectations on Arch and would be crushed if he came in and couldn't live up to them either.

[BurntOrange&White 41343]

3 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Not playing Arch reminds me of Mack scared to play Cedric Benson due to blocking. And then he had Brett Robin out there trying to block Roy Williams instead. Murphy is essentially the Brett Robin of 2023.

[LateAughtsHorn 588]

1 minute ago, SarkAfterDark said:

We are 2-0 with MM as our starting QB, so the floor and safety net has been just fine. However some of you placed unreasonable expectations on MM and now are calling for his head that he hasn't lived up to them. There was always going to be growing pains. He is another kid that hasn't really had any live reps because for the last 2 years this team just refuses to blow anyone out. Now a lot of you are doubling down and transferring those unrealistic expectations on Arch and would be crushed if he came in and couldn't live up to them either.

But he's a Manning! No development needed. 

[Red Five 41407]

It's getting tough to wade through this thread, what with all the straw men littered everywhere. 

[Hookem2147 21650]

1 minute ago, SarkAfterDark said:

We are 2-0 with MM as our starting QB, so the floor and safety net has been just fine. However some of you placed unreasonable expectations on MM and now are calling for his head that he hasn't lived up to them. There was always going to be growing pains. He is another kid that hasn't really had any live reps because for the last 2 years this team just refuses to blow anyone out. Now a lot of you are doubling down and transferring those unrealistic expectations on Arch and would be crushed if he came in and couldn't live up to them either.

There is just so much wrong with this.

Murphy was a project and anyone with half a brain recognized that when he entered the program. He then proceeded to miss his first spring practice while recovering from an ankle injury from HS and then missed important practice time last fall after falling off a scooter that caused us to almost have to start Charles Wright against UTSA. He has now missed practice time this season with another injury. Don't try to use us not "blowing anyone out" as an excuse for his performance. He wasn't even available for a good chunk of last year and him handing the ball off 5 times and throwing a couple of garbage time passes against New Mexico Junior College wouldn't change what we are seeing now.

No one is throwing unrealistic expectations on Arch or Murphy. We expect baseline competence. This is college football. It is not unrealistic to expect a QB to 1) be okay with getting tackled 2) not be backpedaling 80% of the time when attempting a pass 3) not throw it directly to the opposing team 4 times a game. If Arch entered I would hold him to the same low, baseline standard as Murphy. Same with Charles Wright. Same with Cole Lourd. 

We aren't asking for much. Drive the bus with both hands on the steering wheel and don't try to swerve into a ditch repeatedly.

[Stunns38 3751]

We're not asking MM to be VY reincarnate, but he needs to run the damn ball.  This was the play he threw the pick into coverage and Cook slipped.
2nd and 3, he communicates with the right tackle picks up a blocker, could have been something there. Nitpicking here, but he needs to have better situational awareness there and protect the damn ball

I’m surprised Mar didn’t call ineligible player downfield on that one. They probably would have to offset a PI call if we got it.

[formermav43 4606]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

The point with Manning's 'shirt is not maximizing the length of his college career.  Historically, a FR RS was the ideal QB development scenario and that was the at least tacit deal with the Manning family.  Granted, that may be becoming less feasible in that a QB can't afford the RS if he enters the draft as a junior, but the development point still stands.

Not pulling Ewers, or Murphy, for that matter, is not as simple as you make it out to be.  The notion that Card last year would have been an improvement is dubious at best.  The situation with Manning may or may not be dubious, but it is highly speculative and might undermine the confidence of the Manning family and any future recruits relying on Sarkisian as a QB whisperer and man of his word.

The bolded I think emphasizes what I perceive to be Sark's "stubbornness" at forcing players into challenging situations so they can improve from it.  I agree that doing that to the detriment of winning is dubious and probably wrong, but it is at least somewhat debatable.  In hindsight, pulling the floundering QB may look like the right move, but that notion is so hindsight-infected that it's really impossible to evaluate.

Where I think you are off, again, is that pulling the floundering QB, whether Ewers or Murphy, would have resulted in wins, while possibly stunting the development of a longer-term need.

Oh I don’t think that’s dubious at all watching Card last year vs Ewers in those two games. People never got over how Card looked as a freshman at Arkansas (ironically, given the tone of much of this thread) and allowed it to irrevocably color their judgment of him, where last year in relief he completed nearly 70% of his passes with only 1 INT. Ewers was absolute garbage in those games, throwing balls to no one in particular, completing less than half his passes, turning it over. It’s why we essentially abandoned the passing game against KU and Baylor.
 

There’s no doubt in my mind Card would have outplayed him at that time if brought in based on his body of work last season-and I believe that’s precisely why he didn’t play him, because of the potential repercussions. He was willing to sacrifice the wins in the short term for the longterm development of Ewers (and the team). I hated that move last year; this year, you can argue it looks like it paid off.

[BurntOrange&White 41343]

Hudson Card fucking sucks.

[Irish Wrist Watch 1465]

The Mannings: The season is on the line and you've got our kid riding the bench while your second string QB is out there throwing bricks...

Sark: Well, Mr Manning(s), ya see, Arch just hasn't been playing all that well in practice with the third string offense....

I think Sark fully intends to have Manning as his starter once Ewers is gone. It would be a huge boost to the program... and it would be damaging as hell if he were to transfer. If Ewers can't play on Saturday, Sark gives MM one or two series, or maybe even a quarter. If he doesn't cut it, he'll stick Manning in.

[Had Enough 2096]

Oh I don’t think that’s dubious at all watching Card last year vs Ewers in those two games. People never got over how Card looked as a freshman at Arkansas (ironically, given the tone of much of this thread) and allowed it to irrevocably color their judgment of him, where last year in relief he completed nearly 70% of his passes with only 1 INT. Ewers was absolute garbage in those games, throwing balls to no one in particular, completing less than half his passes, turning it over. It’s why we essentially abandoned the passing game against KU and Baylor.
 
There’s no doubt in my mind Card would have outplayed him at that time if brought in based on his body of work last season-and I believe that’s precisely why he didn’t play him, because of the potential repercussions. He was willing to sacrifice the wins in the short term for the longterm development of Ewers (and the team). I hated that move last year; this year, you can argue it looks like it paid off.

Interestingly enough Cards numbers last year are reasonably comparable to Ewers this year.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10687]

1 hour ago, Red Five said:

And realistically, we're not going to reap the benefits of his development. That's why this is so frustrating. The guy that we are going to need to develop, for next year, is on the bench.

It would be different if we weren't in the CFP hunt. Right now Sark is just figuring out wins to keep that alive until Ewers is back. I didn't expect Sark to play Manning against a KSU team, that's a big ask for your first game. Playing on the road against TCU or ISU also a big ask (other than mop up time, but let's face it - MM gets all the snaps he can as he needs them). That leaves Tech at home -- not happening.  Anytime Ewers is ready he's back. Heck he might be dressed ready but not start (as not 100%) in any or all of the last 3 games but come in if needed.

[6th Street 6627]

Card has been sacked 19 times this year

[Hermanator 7512]

33 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

We are 2-0 with MM as our starting QB, so the floor and safety net has been just fine. However some of you placed unreasonable expectations on MM and now are calling for his head that he hasn't lived up to them. There was always going to be growing pains. He is another kid that hasn't really had any live reps because for the last 2 years this team just refuses to blow anyone out. Now a lot of you are doubling down and transferring those unrealistic expectations on Arch and would be crushed if he came in and couldn't live up to them either.

Throwing 5 balls a game into the hands/chest of defenders is the safety net? 

Expectations from backups are to drive the bus and not turn it over. Maalik is having very good starts then turning it over and not driving the bus. 

[South Austin 52925]

10 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Hudson Card fucking sucks.

He's definitely taken a step back at Purdue.  For the season he's 57.8% with 9 TDs and 8 INTs.

[BurntOrange&White 41343]

Just now, South Austin said:

He's definitely taken a step back at Purdue.  For the season he's 57.8% with 9 TDs and 8 INTs.

Taken a step back? He is what he is....

[formermav43 4606]

12 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Hudson Card fucking sucks.

He’s no Maalik Murphy.

[South Austin 52925]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

Taken a step back? He is what he is....

Compared to almost 80%, 6 TDs and 1 INT last year at Texas.  At least statistically, that's a step back, but you can also argue that the different in surrounding talent and coaching between Texas and Purdue has a lot to do with that.

[gmr548 16680]

What is the theory behind why MM could throw on target 1st half and then suddenly couldn’t hit a barn 2nd half?  Fatigue?  In game injury?   Mental breakdown?
I don’t think I have ever seen a QB fade that drastically and then stay down so consistently before.  

Maalik Murphy is not a very good college QB right now. Sark was able to effectively mitigate that in the heavily practiced opening script but he fell apart in live fire.

[Atticus 4160]

28 minutes ago, Stunns38 said:

I’m surprised Mar didn’t call ineligible player downfield on that one. They probably would have to offset a PI call if we got it.

There isn’t even a lineman past the LOS in that still, MM is just really far behind his OL

[Irish Wrist Watch 1465]

1 minute ago, gmr548 said:

Maalik Murphy is not a very good college QB right now. Sark was able to effectively mitigate that in the heavily practiced opening script but he fell apart in live fire.

And perhaps the KSU defense made adjustments - adjustments TCU could put in place from the opening kickoff.

[Frank Drebin 5791]

12 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

Interestingly enough Cards numbers last year are reasonably comparable to Ewers this year.

Yes, he had a good game against WVU and UTSA.

8 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Card has been sacked 19 times this year

He takes a lot of sacks because his biggest problem is he has the pocket presence of Chance Mock.

[Mileslong 4789]

MM not all that bad.  Yes he could have thrown four picks and short hopped a couple others. .  

I now want you to wait 24 hours and reread that sentence.

[The Dog 44628]

5 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Maalik Murphy is not a very good college QB right now. Sark was able to effectively mitigate that in the heavily practiced opening script but he fell apart in live fire.

 

2 minutes ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

And perhaps the KSU defense made adjustments - adjustments TCU could put in place from the opening kickoff.

AND Murphy had a total meltdown once he faced some adversity and completely forgot how to play quarterback. 

[6th Street 6627]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10096078-texas-fans-plead-for-quinn-ewers-or-arch-manning-at-qb-after-win-vs-kansas-state
 

 

[lemonandaturd 4285]

2 hours ago, Hermanator said:

 

Unlike KSU who is built offensively in the worst possible way to attack Texas's best in the country run defense, TCU is built in the best possible way to attack our defense. Their strength is the passing game and their receivers are fast and talented. They will move the ball against us all day long, 

That same loaded TCU offense that scored 3 points against KState and had 187 passing yards?  Or was it the one that had 142 yards passing at home against West Virginia and lost?  

[ousux 5631]

Maalik, you're tall like a giraffe. Use those legs and run every now and then! Seriously don't understand why he won't tuck it and take off every now and then. Maybe he's afraid to get hit?

I think his HS injury either isn't completely healed or reinjured at some point. Look at the near pick 6 he threw against BYU and his lack of effort running down the ball carrier. He was closer than JB but Brooks blew past Maalik and made the shoestring tackle.

[Blotto 23876]

1 hour ago, 6th Street said:

At the very least, Arch needs to come in on every 3rd series as a change of pace. 

I also don't buy the zero playing time thing - you can play 4 games and preserve redshirt. They want him to start day 1 next year without ever stepping foot on a the field? And this is during a once in a decade year where Texas is in a title hunt? That doesn't pass the sniff test.

Few things I hate as much in football as watching alternating QBs in a game. Fucks up the rhythm of the offense too much. Pick a guy and let him play. If he cant get it done, stick the other guy in. Alternating two freshman QB's seems less than ideal. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Blotto

[gmr548 16680]

And perhaps the KSU defense made adjustments - adjustments TCU could put in place from the opening kickoff.

Sure, but KSU didn’t do anything particularly novel that will teach the TCU start something new. They came out in predominantly single high looks essentially daring a backup QB to beat them throwing downfield. Sark anticipated this and included some downfield throws early, and they hit a couple. KSU said “well fuck me we can’t cover these receivers and they will hit enough heaves down the field to beat us” and went back to their 3-high. Texas then proceeded to run for over 200 yards.

TCU plays some 3-high if I recall and could just roll with that and concentrate on making Texas execute down the field consistently. That’s probably how I’d play it, basically mimicking their gameplan from last year. Crash the safeties against the run, take away the explosives by alignment, make Texas’s inconsistent offense march down the field consistently.

TCU’s rush defense is also significantly worse than KSU’s though and Texas’s run game could present a ton of problems for TCU in that scenario, allowing Texas to ball control TCU to death and never build momentum/high snap counts on offense that they will need to win.

[gurt 790]

if scripting the first two series worked so well for Maalik, why didn't Sark just script the whole game?!  Sometimes I don't think he really is a football genius...

[Thatguy 9154]

56 minutes ago, Atticus said:

There isn’t even a lineman past the LOS in that still, MM is just really far behind his OL

and?

[Thatguy 9154]

1 hour ago, formermav43 said:

, where last year in relief he completed nearly 70% of his passes with only 1 INT. Ewers was absolute garbage in those games, throwing balls to no one in particular, completing less than half his passes, turning it over. It’s why we essentially abandoned the passing game against KU and Baylor.
 

There’s no doubt in my mind Card would have outplayed him at that time if brought in based on his body of work last season-and I believe that’s precisely why he didn’t play him, because of the potential repercussions. He was willing to sacrifice the wins in the short term for the longterm development of Ewers (and the team). I hated that move last year; this year, you can argue it looks like it paid off.

 

1 hour ago, Had Enough said:

Interestingly enough Cards numbers last year are reasonably comparable to Ewers this year.

 

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

Compared to almost 80%, 6 TDs and 1 INT last year at Texas.  At least statistically, that's a step back, but you can also argue that the different in surrounding talent and coaching between Texas and Purdue has a lot to do with that.

But against who? My daughter's backup hitter in volleyball has almost as good a hitting percentage as she does. However, she only plays when we play cupcakes, so she gets to pad her stats against them. My daughter earned hers against playoff bound teams.

[South Austin 52925]

*against whom.

[Thatguy 9154]

1 minute ago, South Austin said:

*against whom.

I would lose my black card for typing that

[Had Enough 2096]

He takes a lot of sacks because his biggest problem is he has the pocket presence of Chance Mock.

He played pretty well versus Tech and against Bama.

Ewers is getting sacked at a higher rate this year than Card last year. Ewers is getting sacked at a higher clip per pressure. On average, Card threw it deeper but Ewers doesn’t hold it as long. Few, if any, get rid of it quicker than Ewers though and Card last year did not hold the ball long relative to others.

Card is not having a good year, but he gets sacked less often per drop back and about half the rate of Ewers when pressured.

Ewers is better this year due to being patient and more conservative. At every depth of throw Ewers comp percentage is very close to Cards last year. A big difference is that Ewers throw the intermediate throw far more often.

We’re doing play action way more this year with deep throws down 40% or so.