Nancy Pelosi is a badass MF and I want her to be Speaker

[Fozzz 152]

Worthless fucking party.

 

 

[bad_teammate 13225]

It is absolutely disgusting that Pelosi browbeat this inspirational new Congresswoman into apologizing for something she shouldn't apologize for. I can't stand this sassy-clapping cretin and the reason so many here are in love with her is specifically because she represents basically nothing regarding meaningful or necessary change.

Get her out.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2019 by bad_teammate

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Pelosi should demand apologies from every GOP member of Congress that habitually dog whistles on (((SOROS)))

[bad_teammate 13225]

Just now, Pokemon said:

Omg she's just trying to manage a potential circus fire.

By stomping on a minority woman expressed a worthwhile and fair viewpoint, yes. By being easily manipulated by fainting couch Republicans.

Enough of Pelosi. Absolute garbage. Useless garbage.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Eh, this is a fire the democrats could do without right now.  Just get it out of the news and don’t give the right anymore unnecessary ammunition. 

[bad_teammate 13225]

5 minutes ago, Pokemon said:

Turn on Nancy and you'll get Trump again in 2020.

haha what?

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Eh, this is a fire the democrats could do without right now.

Why?

[bad_teammate 13225]

1 minute ago, Pokemon said:

Because Nancy is the ONLY person so far who has successfully stood up to Trump.

Remember the Oval Office meeting in which Pelosi told Trump that he couldn't get the votes in the House to fund the wall? She was so condescending and EPIC CLAPBACK QUEEN and she put on sunglasses while wearing a coat and this thread and Twitter exploded with joy SLAYYYY QUEEEEEEEEEEEEN?

Remember that?

Well, Trump called in Paul Ryan and got the House votes for the wall.

How did she stand up to him? The State of the Union? That extremely important thing? lol good god

Quote

The Dems absolutely do not need to make stupid unforced errors.

I agree. When one of their Congresswomen says something absolutely true they shouldn't make an unforced error by calling their own people anti-Semitic.

[bad_teammate 13225]

"Oh man, did you see the withering side eye she gave that prison guard as he beat that man to death!?!? I CAN'T EVEN RIGHT NOW!"

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Why?

Because the optics are horrible.  The Muslim woman picking on the Jews for their money influence pushes so many buttons and divisions.  Let’s not do this, there are better hills to die on. 

Yes, she has a legitimate point and she made it so mission accomplished even with the walk back apology. 

[bad_teammate 13225]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Because the optics are horrible.  The Muslim woman picking on the Jews for their money influence pushes so many buttons and divisions.  Let’s not do this, there are better hills to die on.

The Muslim woman didn't do that. The Muslim woman accurately named a foreign interest lobby that spends money to influence domestic policy. That is literally the truth.

Also, the fact that she's Muslim is 100% irrelevant and it's racist to even make that an issue.

Quote

Yes, she has a legitimate point and she made it so mission accomplished even with the walk back apology. 

So she has a legitimate point that she didn't express in any racist way, yet she needs to be thrown under the bus? To what end? Do you sincerely believe the Republicans will now be nice and not say the Democrats hate Israel?

Pelosi not standing up for Omar is like the "centrists" here who fall down every time a Republican concern-trolls about a 2020 Dem candidate.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Not arguing facts with you because they are on your side.  We both agree. 

However, Nancy’s alternative approach to the situation would be more politically polarizing and distracting.   This was a pragmatic calculation which I understand you’re not a huge fan of and that’s okay.  

[bad_teammate 13225]

Fuck Nancy Pelosi

 

[Ghost of LL 15544]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

The Muslim woman didn't do that. The Muslim woman accurately named a foreign interest lobby that spends money to influence domestic policy. That is literally the truth.

Also, the fact that she's Muslim is 100% irrelevant and it's racist to even make that an issue.

So she has a legitimate point that she didn't express in any racist way, yet she needs to be thrown under the bus? To what end? Do you sincerely believe the Republicans will now be nice and not say the Democrats hate Israel?

Pelosi not standing up for Omar is like the "centrists" here who fall down every time a Republican concern-trolls about a 2020 Dem candidate.

So it's racist to call out someone for using an anti-Semitic trope?

Got it.

[bad_teammate 13225]

It's racist to frame something as anti-Semitic when it isn't anti-Semitic because the person saying it is Muslim, yes.

(Hey shitlibs, do you see what is happening?)

[Fozzz 152]

It's not anti-Semitic to criticize Israel and Israel's influence on our politics, just as it's not anti-Arab to criticize the influence of the Gulf states on our politics.  It is bigoted to conflate anti-Zionism with antisemitism as many Jews are not Zionists.  Indeed, some right-wing antisemites are staunch Zionists.

Quote

Not only that, but it is possible to be both a Zionist and an anti-Semite. Evidence of this is supplied by the statements of white supremacists in the US and extreme right-wing politicians across Europe. Richard Spencer, a leading figure in the American alt-right, has no trouble characterising himself as a ‘white Zionist’ (‘As an Israeli citizen,’ he explained to his interviewer on Israel’s Channel 2 News, ‘who has a sense of nationhood and peoplehood, and the history and experience of the Jewish people, you should respect someone like me, who has analogous feelings about whites … I want us to have a secure homeland for us and ourselves. Just like you want a secure homeland in Israel’), while also believing that ‘Jews are vastly over-represented in what you could call “the establishment”.’ Gianfranco Fini of the Italian National Alliance and Geert Wilders, leader of the Dutch Party for Freedom, have also professed their admiration of Zionism and the ‘white’ ethnocracy of the state of Israel, while on other occasions making their anti-Semitic views plain. Three things that draw these anti-Semites towards Israel are, first, the state’s ethnocratic character; second, an Islamophobia they assume Israel shares with them; and, third, Israel’s unapologetically harsh policies towards black migrants from Africa (in the latest of a series of measures designed to coerce Eritrean and Sudanese migrants to leave Israel, rules were introduced earlier this year requiring asylum seekers to deposit 20 per cent of their earnings in a fund, to be repaid to them only if, and when, they leave the country).

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n01/neve-gordon/the-new-anti-semitism

Edited February 11, 2019 by Fozzz

[Biff Tannen 45750]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Not arguing facts with you because they are on your side.  We both agree. 

However, Nancy’s alternative approach to the situation would be more politically polarizing and distracting.   This was a pragmatic calculation which I understand you’re not a huge fan of and that’s okay.  

I'm with Hugo.  It pisses me off to no end how much we back Israel, but this isn't the time to die on that hill.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20510]

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Eh, this is a fire the democrats could do without right now.  Just get it out of the news and don’t give the right anymore unnecessary ammunition. 

 

No shit. Bad teammate's takes are so lacking in strategic thinking. 

[Fozzz 152]

It’s never the right time to criticize Israel. 

[Ghost of LL 15544]

27 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

It's not anti-Semitic to criticize Israel and Israel's influence on our politics, just as it's not anti-Arab to criticize the influence of the Gulf states on our politics.  It is bigoted to conflate anti-Zionism with antisemitism as many Jews are not Zionists.  Indeed, some right-wing antisemites are staunch Zionists.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n01/neve-gordon/the-new-anti-semitism

It's not anti-Semitic to criticize Israel, nor is it anti-Semitic to critique Israel's influence on American policy-making.

It is anti-Semitic, however, to reduce that influence to a mere matter of "Benjamins."

It also happens to be wildly untrue.

[Horn Dog 9946]

On 2/9/2019 at 6:53 PM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

LMAO

Releasing one person’s returns, they argued, is a slippery slope toward eroding all Americans’ right to privacy.“We believe all Americans have a fundamental right to the privacy....”

Ya’ll remember when the pubs were super concerned about Bill Clinton’s right to privacy regarding a blow job?  Slippery slope indeed..

[Fozzz 152]

45 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

It's not anti-Semitic to criticize Israel, nor is it anti-Semitic to critique Israel's influence on American policy-making.

It is anti-Semitic, however, to reduce that influence to a mere matter of "Benjamins."

It also happens to be wildly untrue.

It's not the only reason that the US is so hawkish with respect to Israel, and I don't take Ohmar's comments as excluding all other reasons for influence, but it is a major reason, both due to the pro-Israel lobby and wealthy independent donors with extremely hawkish views towards Israel.  

Quote

AIPAC, on its own website, recruits members to join its “Congressional Club,” and commit to give at least $5,000 per election cycle.

Eric Gallagher, a top official at AIPAC from 2010 to 2015, tells the Al Jazeera reporter that AIPAC gets results. “Getting $38 billion in security aid to Israel matters, which is what AIPAC just did,” he notes at one secretly recorded lunch. “Everything AIPAC does is focused on influencing Congress.”

https://theintercept.com/2019/02/11/ilhan-omar-israel-lobby-documentary/

[Anastasis 23491]

So she said something about the negative influence of money in politics, but because it was aimed at Israel Democrat’s are losing their minds.  What a world. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Anastasis

[bad_teammate 13225]

13 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

It is anti-Semitic, however, to reduce that influence to a mere matter of "Benjamins."

It also happens to be wildly untrue.

Then why is our support for Israel completely unwavering? Why do we shield Israel from UN resolutions concerning basic human rights?

Of course it's money. It's always money.

That has nothing to do with the fact that Israel is a Jewish state. Saudi Arabia is a nation that does not allow Jewish people to live and work inside its borders and we cannot sell them weapons fast enough.

Money.

[Goredho 17423]

What the fuck does any of this have to do with pigeons?

[NBMisha 224]

10 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Then why is our support for Israel completely unwavering? Why do we shield Israel from UN resolutions concerning basic human rights?

Of course it's money. It's always money.

That has nothing to do with the fact that Israel is a Jewish state. Saudi Arabia is a nation that does not allow Jewish people to live and work inside its borders and we cannot sell them weapons fast enough.

Money.

Money.  And votes.  Which leads to money.

And the votes are all about fast thinking bullshit about religion and persecution and Hitler and evil A-rabs and we gotta be on their side, period.  So propping up that meme system is a good payout.

None of which makes Pelosi's action other than simply pragmatic.

 

[Ghost of LL 15544]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Then why is our support for Israel completely unwavering? Why do we shield Israel from UN resolutions concerning basic human rights?

Of course it's money. It's always money.

That has nothing to do with the fact that Israel is a Jewish state. Saudi Arabia is a nation that does not allow Jewish people to live and work inside its borders and we cannot sell them weapons fast enough.

Money.

There are a lot of countries that spend as much or more than Israel does in lobbying American politicians.  Pakistan spends a metric fuckton, but support for Pakistan is fairly wish-washy.  That's because nobody thinks that Jesus Christ is imminently going to return to Lahore.

I appreciate that you're not religious.  That gives you a huge blindspot in seeing the motivations of those that are.  And there is a large percentage of the American population that believes that Israel needs to exist so that Jesus Christ can return and do all that rapture shit.

There are other motivators, too.  The Palestinians have a really bad PR department, what with their half-century long terrorism campaign that has killed Americans.  The Israelis (like the Saudis) were an ally during the Cold War, which earned them some vestigial loyalty.

So yeah--when you reduce it to money, you're wrong.  And it's no accident that you reduce it to money when we're talking about a Jewish state.  And that makes it anti-Semitic.

[David Dennison 18951]

11 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

There are a lot of countries that spend as much or more than Israel does in lobbying American politicians.  Pakistan spends a metric fuckton, but support for Pakistan is fairly wish-washy.  That's because nobody thinks that Jesus Christ is imminently going to return to Lahore.

I appreciate that you're not religious.  That gives you a huge blindspot in seeing the motivations of those that are.  And there is a large percentage of the American population that believes that Israel needs to exist so that Jesus Christ can return and do all that rapture shit.

There are other motivators, too.  The Palestinians have a really bad PR department, what with their half-century long terrorism campaign that has killed Americans.  The Israelis (like the Saudis) were an ally during the Cold War, which earned them some vestigial loyalty.

So yeah--when you reduce it to money, you're wrong.  And it's no accident that you reduce it to money when we're talking about a Jewish state.  And that makes it anti-Semitic.

Supporting Israel because of the second coming is about as misguided as killing Israelis because you think it will get you 77 virgins.

Edited February 12, 2019 by David Dennison

[Ghost of LL 15544]

36 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Supporting Israel because of the second coming is about as misguided as killing Israelis because you think it will get you 77 virgins.

Well, yeah.

But that doesn't mean that it isn't a substantial basis for Israel's support in the United States.

[bad_teammate 13225]

3 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

 And it's no accident that you reduce it to money when we're talking about a Jewish state.

To assume anti-Semitic intention is simply conservatives telling on themselves. The anti-Semitic movement in the West is almost exclusively the realm of right-wing/conservative politics.

Also, those in power don't actually believe the Second Coming is imminent and they don't care about it.

Edited February 12, 2019 by bad_teammate

[bad_teammate 13225]

Fire extinguished! Great job, Nancy!

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Nobody takes him seriously. 

[David Dennison 18951]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Fire extinguished! Great job, Nancy!

 

"President Barack Obama was born in the United States. Period."

 

[bad_teammate 13225]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Nobody takes him seriously. 

If by "nobody" you mean "60+ million Americans and half of Congress" then I guess you're right.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Mexico will pay for the wall.

We take the guns first, then due process.

[David Dennison 18951]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

If by "nobody" you mean "60+ million Americans and half of Congress" then I guess you're right.

They don't take him seriously, either.

[bad_teammate 13225]

15 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

They don't take him seriously, either.

Then why do they humor him and give him what he wants?

[Guest Lobo]

36 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

To assume anti-Semitic intention is simply conservatives telling on themselves. The anti-Semitic movement in the West is almost exclusively the realm of right-wing/conservative politics.

Also, those in power don't actually believe the Second Coming is imminent and they don't care about it.

It’s impossible you believe something this stupid. 

[bad_teammate 13225]

Just now, Lobo said:

It’s impossible you believe something this stupid. 

Which part? How many anti-Semitic hate groups are politically left or even liberal? It's not even arguable.

[bad_teammate 13225]

2 minutes ago, Pokemon said:

Nancy gave him a fuck you. 55 miles of go fuck yourself. 

Dems: "The wall is a racist symbol of hate. It's a human rights violation and a stain on our national values. It's everything we stand against!"

Also Dems: "LOL We have him billions for a wall but not as much as he wanted, GET OWNED ORANGE MAN!"

[Ghost of LL 15544]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Which part? How many anti-Semitic hate groups are politically left or even liberal? It's not even arguable.

Well, apparently at least one member of Congress.

Oh, and the Shadow Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.

[bad_teammate 13225]

10 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Well, apparently at least one member of Congress.

Oh, and the Shadow Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.

Neither Ilhan Omar nor Jeremy Corbyn are anti-Semitic. There is no evidence of it, and it doesn't even make any sense. But on the topic of the actual political allegiances of anti-Semites in the West, you're conceding the point.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Ghost of LL 15544]

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Neither Ilhan Omar nor Jeremy Corbyn are anti-Semitic. There is no evidence of it, and it doesn't even make any sense. But on the topic of the actual political allegiances of anti-Semites in the West, you're conceding the point.

Actually, no.  I think your entire paradigm is out of date.  The Western political spectrum has, over the past five years, shifted away from a purely conservative/liberal split into one in which you have a populist/authoritarian/xenophobic/isolationist side opposite a democratic/cosmopolitan/classically liberal/internationalist side.  The liberals and conservatives of the former political alignment have fallen on both sides of that spectrum.

But the anti-Semites of today fall squarely on the populist/authoritarian side of the new political alignment.

[bad_teammate 13225]

12 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

The Western political spectrum has, over the past five years, shifted away from a purely conservative/liberal split into one in which you have a populist/authoritarian/xenophobic/isolationist side opposite a democratic/cosmopolitan/classically liberal/internationalist side.  The liberals and conservatives of the former political alignment have fallen on both sides of that spectrum.

But the anti-Semites of today fall squarely on the populist/authoritarian side of the new political alignment.

Anti-Semitism in the West has always been populist and nationalistic. I have no idea what shift you think has happened "over the past five years" or why you chose that specific number. I'd be fascinated to hear your rationale.

The reality is that anti-Semitism is primarily about nationalism. There are populist elements, but that's not the important part of the mindset.

Literal "both sides" bullshit, but I'd love for you to give me an example of a liberal/left anti-Semitic hate group.

[Ghost of LL 15544]

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Anti-Semitism in the West has always been populist and nationalistic. I have no idea what shift you think has happened "over the past five years" or why you chose that specific number. I'd be fascinated to hear your rationale.

The reality is that anti-Semitism is primarily about nationalism. There are populist elements, but that's not the important part of the mindset.

Literal "both sides" bullshit, but I'd love for you to give me an example of a liberal/left anti-Semitic hate group.

Fuck your "both sides" nonsense.  We're talking about your side.  A Democratic Congresswoman just said something quite anti-Semitic, and you signed on to it.

Yeah, there are right-wing Nazis out there.  Congratulations.  How does that forgive your anti-Semitic comments?

You're right that almost all organizations that feature anti-Semitism as an organizing principle are on the right wing.  But more than being right-wing, they're in that realm of nationalistic/populistic.  And there are plenty of people like yourself who freely express anti-Semitic sentiments who aren't organized in any way.

Politics, like time, is a flat circle.  What appears to be on the wings is really just the center if you turn the circle 90*.  And the wings come back together 180* from the center.  That's where organized anti-Semitism lives in America--180* from the center, in that place where the left and right come together into something that is not recognizable to either.

That flat circle has shifted.  It hasn't even rotated--it got torn apart and put together again.  Why?  Oh, I cant imagine.  Ten years ago we had an economic meltdown.  We're just now coming to grips with the results of that.  So yeah--shit's gone down over the past five years that has realigned the parties.

[Hank Scorpio 17731]

17 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Fuck your "both sides" nonsense.

both sides both sides both sides both sides both sides both sides both sides both sides both sides both sides both sides both sides both sides both sides both sides both sides both sides both sides 

fify

[Fozzz 152]

My God the anti-Semitism in this article.

Quote

Few lobbies dedicated to international issues are so active and well-fincanced as the Israel lobby. The question of Israel's future has the right mix to attract monied interests -- it's a highly fractious issue with high stakes and it plays a big role in domestic politics.

A powerful pro-Israel force has carved out an influential place in American campaigns in the form of super PAC megadonor Sheldon Adelson. Adelson doled out a whopping $92.8 million to Republican super PACs in 2012, making him the single highest contributor to outside groups that year.

A national network of political action committees supplies much of the pro-Israel money in American politics. Chief among these donors' goals: To support Israeli policy, especially towards its neighbors. That's the Israel lobby's legacy; the movement to institute a Jewish state began with the political influence of Zionists like Louis Brandeis.

The pro-Israel lobby also works to build stronger bilateral relations and to garner American military and economic support for Israel. The financial relationship between the United States and Israel has become increasingly integrated since the 1985 bilateral Free Trade Agreement, the first FTA ever signed by the United States.

AIPAC is the face of pro-Israel political influence, and it supports a two-state solution. Despite its name, it does not make campaign contributions. But pro-Israel entities spent $3.8 million on lobbying in 2013, and AIPAC accounted for roughtly $3 million of that figure.

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/background.php?cycle=2018&ind=Q05

[Anastasis 23491]

#bothsides

 

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/background.php?cycle=2018&ind=Q05

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2019 by Anastasis

[thrillhammer 684]

teammate, I think you need to take a valium and chill out on this issue.  you are not winning over any supporters of your stance so perhaps take it to the unpopular opinions thread?  I believe it was right for Pelosi to ask her to apologize, and it was right for omar to do so.  you may think that her being muslim is irrelevant but it's like the boy that cried wolf.  there may be wisdom in his words, but people put a filter on it and digest it differently because of past history.   a muslim can't call out a jew.  it's too easy. we know already, you don't like each other.  let someone else carry that torch.  as a muslim she should recuse herself, in that sense, from weighing in on Israeli issues. 

[David Dennison 18951]

2 minutes ago, thrillhammer said:

teammate, I think you need to take a valium and chill out on this issue.  you are not winning over any supporters of your stance so perhaps take it to the unpopular opinions thread?  I believe it was right for Pelosi to ask her to apologize, and it was right for omar to do so.  you may think that her being muslim is irrelevant but it's like the boy that cried wolf.  there may be wisdom in his words, but people put a filter on it and digest it differently because of past history.   a muslim can't call out a jew.  it's too easy. we know already, you don't like each other.  let someone else carry that torch.  as a muslim she should recuse herself, in that sense, from weighing in on Israeli issues. 

As soon as Israelis refrain from weighing in on Muslim issues.

Deal?