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Nancy Pelosi is a badass MF and I want her to be Speaker

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

too high a price with potentially no upside.

the 2020 election is going to be close.

not sure what you're not getting.

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THE FUCKING BENGHAZI HEARINGS AND THE REPUBLICANS PATTING THEMSELVES ON THE BACK FOR DESTROYING HILLARY’s POLL NUMBERS BEFORE THE 2016 ELECTION!!?!?

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

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DCA_HORN

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There needs to be hearings if for no other reason than to put the whole congress on the line. If he truly colluded then get him out of there and if they dont vote to remove him then let the voters know who to elect in 2020. Are the dems really scared they cant nominate someone to beat this no talent ass clown in 2020 regardless of hearings?

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Jive Turkey

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5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THE FUCKING BENGHAZI HEARINGS AND THE REPUBLICANS PATTING THEMSELVES ON THE BACK FOR DESTROYING HILLARY’s POLL NUMBERS BEFORE THE 2016 ELECTION!!?!?

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

Comey did way more damage to Hillary than those damn Benghazi hearings.  

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hobbes2702

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15 minutes ago, DCA_HORN said:

There needs to be hearings if for no other reason than to put the whole congress on the line. If he truly colluded then get him out of there and if they dont vote to remove him then let the voters know who to elect in 2020. Are the dems really scared they cant nominate someone to beat this no talent ass clown in 2020 regardless of hearings?

This is where I’m at 

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hobbes2702

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1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Maybe they're scared they don't have enough actual evidence to bring impeachment charges on actual collusion. He's for sure done sleazy stuff, but do they rise to impeachment ?

Then they should have impeachment proceedings and show the evidence they have. They can also show the evidence of emoluments violations, campaign finance violations, money laundering, tax fraud, insurance fraud.

High crimes and misdemeanors has nothing to do with Russia.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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Just now, hobbes2702 said:

I did. And anyone who took away that Hillary was at fault for Benghazi is a fucking moron. Like I said, gop voters.

Ahh so your first post about the news at 6 stuff was you having issues with reading comprehension.  Thanks for clearing that up.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13049

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Maybe I’m misunderstanding what your point was.

I was under the impression you thought she did well in the hearings. As shown in Hugo’s graph, many people quickly viewed her as unfavorable after those hearings. The majority of those are quite likely GOP voters. Hence me calling them stupid for falling for the propaganda being thrown at them.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Maybe I’m misunderstanding what your point was.

I was under the impression you thought she did well in the hearings. As shown in Hugo’s graph, many people quickly viewed her as unfavorable after those hearings. The majority of those are quite likely GOP voters. Hence me calling them stupid for falling for the propaganda being thrown at them.

Maybe I misunderstood who you were addressing.

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Hugo Stiglitz

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6 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Maybe I’m misunderstanding what your point was.

I was under the impression you thought she did well in the hearings. As shown in Hugo’s graph, many people quickly viewed her as unfavorable after those hearings. The majority of those are quite likely GOP voters. Hence me calling them stupid for falling for the propaganda being thrown at them.

 Fox News viewers during the Benghazi hearings were led to believe Hillary was solely responsible for the deaths of four patriots and she tried to cover it up.  She also said “what difference does it make?”  Which meant she didn’t give a shit even though this quote was taken criminally out of context for political purposes.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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It was the hearings coupled with the propaganda arm that did the damage.   Not the hearings themselves.  The hearings were a pretext to paint the narratives.


Unfortunately, Democratic voters don’t tune in en masse to a left wing lie factory like Fox News to get spoon fed their reinforcing propaganda.

MSNBC and CNN will still run stories when Trump does something “good” or when Mueller goes out of his way to refute a damaging BuzzFeed story.

Fox News literally makes shit up and doesn’t even cover stories that are bad for Trump.

And the demographics of Democratic voters - young, minorities, city dwellers, LBTQ - don’t consume media in the monolithic way old, white, straight, rural voters do.

You’re pissed that the rules are different and the game is rigged.

But pushing your stack all in on a pair of twos just to try and beat the house when you can afford to wait for a better hand or better yet, a whole new fucking dealer is counterproductive.

I get the instinct to want someone to swoop in with their cape and save the day but at this point all I care about is defeating Trump in 2020.

The. Senate. Will. Never. Convict. Him.

And if impeachment will energize his base AND turn off the few swing voters left, then don’t do it.

I trust that if we get a Democrat in the WH in 2020, Trump will face the consequences of his actions from the Justice Department and other jurisdictions.

Impeachment would just be theater and I suspect the republicans would relish playing the victim. Don’t give them another weapon.
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Hugo Stiglitz

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17 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Impeachment would just be theater and I suspect the republicans would relish playing the victim. Don’t give them another weapon.

It’s so funny watching the democrats do precisely whatever the Republicans want. 

DONT YOU GET IT?  

Anything against whatever the republicans want is giving them another weapon.  It’s how they maintain literal control.  

The democrats make their calculations based on the Republicans’ response.  That’s why they’re bitches and often lose.  They’re too chickenshit to lead.  If the tables were turned, the Republicans would impeach and make it unbearable for democrats not to go along with it.  They’d never think twice about upsetting the democrat base. 

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hobbes2702

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15 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 


Unfortunately, Democratic voters don’t tune in en masse to a left wing lie factory like Fox News to get spoon fed their reinforcing propaganda.

MSNBC and CNN will still run stories when Trump does something “good” or when Mueller goes out of his way to refute a damaging BuzzFeed story.

Fox News literally makes shit up and doesn’t even cover stories that are bad for Trump.

And the demographics of Democratic voters - young, minorities, city dwellers, LBTQ - don’t consume media in the monolithic way old, white, straight, rural voters do.

You’re pissed that the rules are different and the game is rigged.

But pushing your stack all in on a pair of twos just to try and beat the house when you can afford to wait for a better hand or better yet, a whole new fucking dealer is counterproductive.

I get the instinct to want someone to swoop in with their cape and save the day but at this point all I care about is defeating Trump in 2020.

The. Senate. Will. Never. Convict. Him.

And if impeachment will energize his base AND turn off the few swing voters left, then don’t do it.

I trust that if we get a Democrat in the WH in 2020, Trump will face the consequences of his actions from the Justice Department and other jurisdictions.

Impeachment would just be theater and I suspect the republicans would relish playing the victim. Don’t give them another weapon.

 

That’s fine. Let them play the victim. Point out his clear criminality for the world to see. Put them under pressure to prove they aren’t a corrupt criminal enterprise. Stop letting them dictate the talking points. Make his criminality the issue and put it on display. And then make the GOP protect him. You think watching the GOP let the president get away with obvious crimes will motivate the GOP base more than the Dems? I doubt that.

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atomheartbevo

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2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I understand the political calculation.  I understand why people think this is the wise move.  

However, for all the bitching we do about republicans putting party over country, make no mistake, that’s exactly what Pelosi is doing by casually disregarding impeachment. 

She’s not casually disregarding it at all, and I’m surprised that somebody like you who spends the bulk of their day reading, following, researching, and posting about politics and Trump missed this part of her comments:

unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don’t think we should go down that path, because it divides the country. And he’s just not worth it.

A huge chunk of your 25,000 posts in the CR and here at Surly were about how Mueller has this, and we should be patient and Trust in Mueller, and if/when Schiff got his shot, we would see movement  

Pelosi is doing exactly that.  She’s not needlessly antagonizing Trump or his base.   She’s being patient right now, and waiting on Mueller and the various House investigations.  

The Dems have only controlled the House for 70 or so days, and they are having to course-correct for Republicans who steered things way off course..  Take your own advice and relax, be patient, and Trust in Mueller (and Schiff).  Let him release his report, let the House committees do their thing.  

Pelosi can’t read the tea leaves if they aren’t all there yet.  

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bad_teammate

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These elections are referendums on whether or not a president deserves a second term.

You can motivate non-voters (who are the most important voting bloc up for grabs) by showing them how bad the current president is and offering them something new.

Or you can be a Democrat, be completely awful, and lose to Donald Trump again.

It's astonishing to watch losers like Pelosi at work. Hopefully the House investigations that have nothing to do with her are able to stir up enough negative sentiment against Trump.

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lemonlime

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1 hour ago, DCA_HORN said:

There needs to be hearings if for no other reason than to put the whole congress on the line. If he truly colluded then get him out of there and if they dont vote to remove him then let the voters know who to elect in 2020. Are the dems really scared they cant nominate someone to beat this no talent ass clown in 2020 regardless of hearings?

This.  Except the focus doesn't need to be on collusion.  It should be on emoluments and him using the presidency to enrich himself.  Also ties with other foreign governments, including China and Saudi Arabia.  Illegal campaign contributions, etc.   There's a shit ton of stuff there, without Russia.  Let Mueller focus on that, and investigate all the other corrupt shit Trump's done.

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DCA_HORN

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This.  Except the focus doesn't need to be on collusion.  It should be on emoluments and him using the presidency to enrich himself.  Also ties with other foreign governments, including China and Saudi Arabia.  Illegal campaign contributions, etc.   There's a shit ton of stuff there, without Russia.  Let Mueller focus on that, and investigate all the other corrupt shit Trump's done.
It's been two years and apparently the best hand hes got is a pair of twos?
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Zavala

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1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THE FUCKING BENGHAZI HEARINGS AND THE REPUBLICANS PATTING THEMSELVES ON THE BACK FOR DESTROYING HILLARY’s POLL NUMBERS BEFORE THE 2016 ELECTION!!?!?

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

Darn YouTube video advice was from who? Obama?

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Hugo Stiglitz

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21 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

She’s not casually disregarding it at all, and I’m surprised that somebody like you who spends the bulk of their day reading, following, researching, and posting about politics and Trump missed this part of her comments:

unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don’t think we should go down that path, because it divides the country. And he’s just not worth it.

A huge chunk of your 25,000 posts in the CR and here at Surly were about how Mueller has this, and we should be patient and Trust in Mueller, and if/when Schiff got his shot, we would see movement  

Pelosi is doing exactly that.  She’s not needlessly antagonizing Trump or his base.   She’s being patient right now, and waiting on Mueller and the various House investigations.  

The Dems have only controlled the House for 70 or so days, and they are having to course-correct for Republicans who steered things way off course..  Take your own advice and relax, be patient, and Trust in Mueller (and Schiff).  Let him release his report, let the House committees do their thing.  

Pelosi can’t read the tea leaves if they aren’t all there yet.  

Pelosi isn’t going to impeach Trump unless Republicans are begging for it.  It doesn’t matter what the facts are or what Mueller finds (unless it moves the needle with republicans).  That’s been my position for a while.  I disapprove of her publicly saying that because it unnecessarily gives away some of her leverage over Trump/GOP.

Also, Pelosi knows more than me regarding the investigations so I’ll trust her judgment and hope for the best.  Because I don’t have a choice anyway.

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Chuckie Finster

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That’s fine. Let them play the victim. Point out his clear criminality for the world to see. Put them under pressure to prove they aren’t a corrupt criminal enterprise. Stop letting them dictate the talking points. Make his criminality the issue and put it on display. And then make the GOP protect him. You think watching the GOP let the president get away with obvious crimes will motivate the GOP base more than the Dems? I doubt that.

Have y’all not been paying attention to how things work now? Let’s pretend the hearings are as juicy as we hope. So, Trump is implicated in something nefarious at noon. For a few hours, things look dicey. Then, at 9pm, Hannity distributes the talking points about why the Democrats are actually the criminals. 60 million Americans breathe a sigh of relief and take to Facebook to praise their glorious leader.

 

It’s unfair and it sucks, but trying to compare today to fucking Watergate is ludicrous. The GOP Senators are too scared of Trump to make him veto a random fucking bill, you think there is ANYTHING that will make them remove him from office? 40% of the country STILL stands by him, y’all are crazy if you think some details from a hearing where Lindsay Graham and co. will be interjecting every 5 minutes to blame the Democrats will resonate with the general public AT ALL.

 

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pyrohornIII

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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

She’s not casually disregarding it at all, and I’m surprised that somebody like you who spends the bulk of their day reading, following, researching, and posting about politics and Trump missed this part of her comments:

unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don’t think we should go down that path, because it divides the country. And he’s just not worth it.

A huge chunk of your 25,000 posts in the CR and here at Surly were about how Mueller has this, and we should be patient and Trust in Mueller, and if/when Schiff got his shot, we would see movement  

Pelosi is doing exactly that.  She’s not needlessly antagonizing Trump or his base.   She’s being patient right now, and waiting on Mueller and the various House investigations.  

The Dems have only controlled the House for 70 or so days, and they are having to course-correct for Republicans who steered things way off course..  Take your own advice and relax, be patient, and Trust in Mueller (and Schiff).  Let him release his report, let the House committees do their thing.  

Pelosi can’t read the tea leaves if they aren’t all there yet.  

 

1 hour ago, hobbes2702 said:

That’s fine. Let them play the victim. Point out his clear criminality for the world to see. Put them under pressure to prove they aren’t a corrupt criminal enterprise. Stop letting them dictate the talking points. Make his criminality the issue and put it on display. And then make the GOP protect him. You think watching the GOP let the president get away with obvious crimes will motivate the GOP base more than the Dems? I doubt that.

 

1 hour ago, lemonlime said:

This.  Except the focus doesn't need to be on collusion.  It should be on emoluments and him using the presidency to enrich himself.  Also ties with other foreign governments, including China and Saudi Arabia.  Illegal campaign contributions, etc.   There's a shit ton of stuff there, without Russia.  Let Mueller focus on that, and investigate all the other corrupt shit Trump's done.

A)  hold the hearings to air all the dirty laundry in a way the public knows the GOP knows what a crook they have turned their party over to.

B) Avoid any investigations or testimonies that could endanger the SDNY/DC investigations.   Everything but Russia is going on there, most of  the emoluments, tax fraud, banking fraud, charity fraud, etc.  Stick to the election rigging, the international intrigues and business dealings in the hearings. 

C) Take down his kids and what's left of his cronies through the SDNY and other state courts.  He will have a harder time pardoning there, if he even can.  Concurrently, expose his facade as a billionaire.    Seems I saw somewhere that his net worth is in the negative millions right now.  So all that coming out  and down will crack him even more. 

D) Indict him as soon as he leaves office, or even before if he has cracked enough his base dismisses him.

 

Seems to me impeachment proceeding might conflict with investigations ongoing.  I have a feeling they know that those cases will bring him down in a less bloody way than impeachment would. 

The important thing is to expose his GOP protectors and enablers in a way they get run out of office, recalled, or impeached themselves.  They and their puppet master contributors (Big Pharma, NRA, ALEC, etc) are the festering wound.  Trump and his band are simply the scab. 

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Macanudo

Macanudo 12995

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4 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s called being browbeaten into letting yourself get walked all over by Trump and the Kremlin despite the American people overwhelmingly voting you into office to CHECK precisely that.

You're an idiot.   You prove once again that you don't understand human nature and "Gotcha".   The Ds and Rs aren't in this for us.   They are in it for them.

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Brisketexan

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Have y’all not been paying attention to how things work now? Let’s pretend the hearings are as juicy as we hope. So, Trump is implicated in something nefarious at noon. For a few hours, things look dicey. Then, at 9pm, Hannity distributes the talking points about why the Democrats are actually the criminals. 60 million Americans breathe a sigh of relief and take to Facebook to praise their glorious leader. 
It’s unfair and it sucks, but trying to compare today to fucking Watergate is ludicrous. The GOP Senators are too scared of Trump to make him veto a random fucking bill, you think there is ANYTHING that will make them remove him from office? 40% of the country STILL stands by him, y’all are crazy if you think some details from a hearing where Lindsay Graham and co. will be interjecting every 5 minutes to blame the Democrats will resonate with the general public AT ALL.
 

Chuckie gets it.
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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48 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

You're an idiot.   You prove once again that you don't understand human nature and "Gotcha".   The Ds and Rs aren't in this for us.   They are in it for them.

Riveting analysis.  No shit they’re in it for them but part of the “in it for them” comes with a price of doing whatever is necessary to retain office. Sometimes that involves responding to the voters. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Thetexashammer

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I just want to give props to Hugo. The dude mostly posts facts. With links to sources. Just the facts. 

He doesn't resort to ad hominem. He provides facts and reasoning in support of an argument. In other words, he disagrees without being disagreeable. He is a fine poster and a role model for many of you who fail to live up to that standard.

Looking at you Brisket.

Edited by Thetexashammer
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Gengs1

Gengs1 2583

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Democrats are just giant pussies and news at 7.

they need to be hammering trump and his associates and get them to hearings in front of the USA. Go after his family who ran his business and get his taxes.

impeachment should on the table and they just need to keep on hammering their points. 

Right when they get some power they are ready to give it away and if they can’t defeat trump, pack the party up. Besides aoc, who is calling out the the Rs by the democrats?

they are just pussies 

Edited by Gengs1
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gmr548

gmr548 16584

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Unless it's so overwhelming that his protectors in the Senate vote to convict, impeachment is a pointless exercise anyway. I've seen nothing that indicates the Senate GOP will break from their thorough capitulation to Trump. In that sense, I agree that impeachment isn't worth the trouble. On the other hand, Trump will probably tell his base Ds tried to impeach anyway, and they will take it as gospel. As the world turns.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23479

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Impeachment is only a pointless exercise if the charges that are made are marginal, trivial, or not directly related to the conduct of the President while in office.  I would say that Clinton's impeachment was probably pointless for example. If however the charges are meaningful and substantive, impeachment is not a pointless process, without regard to the ultimate outcome in terms of removal imo.    

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Pig Bellmont

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Nancy is showing weakness. Sunlight can sway everything. We know he committed crimes before and during his presidency, AND shamelessly profited from the office- even potentially shaping foreign policy because of it. Dems shouldn’t be afraid of impeachment. If Trump can’t be impeached, then no president ever will be capable of being impeached 

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