Nancy Pelosi is a badass MF and I want her to be Speaker

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

You guys call me a troll. lol this is professional level shit right here

I'm in awe.

Dennison is my kind of troll.  Doesn't put much effort in but keeps getting bites. 

[David Dennison 18925]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Dennison is my kind of troll.  Doesn't put much effort in but keeps getting bites. 

It's easy when people think emotionally about an issue.

[DixonHur 11342]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It was that or not pass anything. It passed 84-9 in the Senate. It's politically untenable to not do anything.

 

 

This is the problem with Dems in a nutshell.  They way over think things.  By and large the electorate is stupid...sorry, but it's true...GOP is great at marketing while the Dems fumble away every great opportunity to win.

See Trump's election as Exhibit A.  How the fuck do you lose to Trump?  You letting DWS rig the primary to get the most stale, unliked politician possible.  Hillary didn't win the primary...she was handed the victory by the "super delegates".  

Edited July 11, 2019 by DixonHur

[retread 2951]

House Ds had just visited the concentration camps. You have the momentum. You force the Rs to come to the table. You go get lots of images and videos from the camps. You blast them on social media. You go on offense. Instead?

Holiday weekend coming up. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

4 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

See Trump's election as Exhibit A.  How the fuck do you lose to Trump?  You letting DWS rig the primary to get the most stale, unliked politician possible.  Hillary didn't win the primary...she was handed the victory by the "super delegates".  

I love how 2016 is white washed to blame Hillary and the Dems.  As if Obama didn't lose 1000 state house seats, left the party in ruins, and got turbofucked by Putin and McConnell on his way out.  As if Trump didn't criminally cheat to win either.  Nope, none of that happened.  All on Hillary and little Debbie!

[David Dennison 18925]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I love how 2016 is white washed to blame Hillary and the Dems.  As if Obama didn't lose 1000 state house seats, left the party in ruins, and got turbofucked by Putin and McConnell on his way out.  As if Trump didn't criminally cheat to win either.  Nope, none of that happened.  All on Hillary and little Debbie!

Hillary Clinton ran a terrible campaign. Was it all her fault? No. But she didn't do herself any favors by taking the Blue Wall for granted.

[David Dennison 18925]

5 minutes ago, retread said:

House Ds had just visited the concentration camps. You have the momentum. You force the Rs to come to the table. You go get lots of images and videos from the camps. You blast them on social media. You go on offense. Instead?

Holiday weekend coming up. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It was Democrats who forced her hand. 

Democrats.

That's why this sucks.

[DixonHur 11342]

 

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

All on Hillary and little Debbie!

Yes, that about sums it up.

Go back and look at my posts during the primary.  I'm not "white washing" shit...I was calling it suicide before she was even nominated.  Hillary was the worst possible candidate.  

You talk about Russian interference.  What exactly was basis of that interference?  Oh, that's right...Hillary fucking Clinton. 

Did Hillary inspire the nation? No.  Did Hillary have any big new ideas? No.  Did Hillary campaign strategically? No.  Did Hillary have years and years of bad will built up with the American people (deserved or not)?  Yes.  

Hillary would have lost to any of the GOP candidates.  She's lucky she was going against Trump and still managed to lose.  So yeah.  It was her and little Debbie's doing.  Not that they didn't get some big assists from Obama and other Dems along the way, but it was a doomed campaign from the get go.  

[David Dennison 18925]

Not that it matters because at this point we're just yelling past each other, but here are all of the bills passed by the House in this Congress:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse?status=4,5,11,10,30,31,9&sort=-current_status_date#current_status[]=4

[DixonHur 11342]

9 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Not that it matters because at this point we're just yelling past each other, but here are all of the bills passed by the House in this Congress:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse?status=4,5,11,10,30,31,9&sort=-current_status_date#current_status[]=4

Wow, I skimmed through the top 15 to 20.  A whole bunch of nothing.

Not saying that toward you DD, but I didn't see anything that moves the needle for America.  Many were just updates to existing laws.  Hell, the second one on the list just change the word "wife" to "spouse".

[hayden_horn 11362]

28 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It was Democrats who forced her hand. 

Democrats.

That's why this sucks.

well, schumer sucks too.

lack. of. spine.

you play to win the game.

you don't play not to lose the game.

democratic leadership is failing by not leading. 

period.

[triplehorn 2664]

Same issue I have with Bernie.  He's an activist, which has its merits, but he does not strike me as one who can govern.

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by triplehorn

[hayden_horn 11362]

47 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It was that or not pass anything. It passed 84-9 in the Senate. It's politically untenable to not do anything.

 

 

whose fault is that?

the democrats' fault.

holiday weekend coming up? don't pass a bullshit bill. scrap your plans, go to the border and MAKE A FUCKING FUSS.

or, i guess, "reluctantly" surrender and go on holiday.

[Asithappens 974]

56 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

And you are refusing to see why this is a terrible argument and surrendering the country to the tyranny of morons.    

Way overstated, imo.

Vote him out of office. Vote. Vote. Vote.

[David Dennison 18925]

Just now, hayden_horn said:

whose fault is that?

the democrats' fault.

holiday weekend coming up? don't pass a bullshit bill. scrap your plans, go to the border and MAKE A FUCKING FUSS.

or, i guess, "reluctantly" surrender and go on holiday.

A large majority of the caucus supported that bullshit bill. 

[hayden_horn 11362]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

A large majority of the caucus supported that bullshit bill. 

thanks for making my point.

[retread 2951]

2 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

holiday weekend coming up? don't pass a bullshit bill. scrap your plans, go to the border and MAKE A FUCKING FUSS.

They don't have the will, stomach, or desire (or all of the above) to fight.

[David Dennison 18925]

Just now, hayden_horn said:

thanks for making my point.

It's my point, too.

[Asithappens 974]

43 minutes ago, retread said:

You force the Rs to come to the table.

I'll bite.

How do you force the Rs to come to the table?

Shame them? Good luck with that.

[David Dennison 18925]

Just now, retread said:

They don't have the will, stomach, or desire (or all of the above) to fight.

The legislation you wanted them to fight for was DOA. It wasn't going to pass. Democrats killed it.

Then what?

[retread 2951]

^ Re: Rs having no shame and bill DOA, you fight. Your points are undeniable, and it's a good argument for our country being fucked beyond retrieval.

This is war. You travel en masse down to the border. You visit a lot of facilities that week and over the holiday weekend. You work 16 hours a day. You go on every network that will have you and you show the pictures and video. You hold press conference after press conference exposing the humanitarian atrocities occurring at the border. You explain the shortcomings of the Senate bill, and point out how your bill will ameliorate some of the disgusting things happening in the concentration camps.

Or. You give up, and you go have a few beers on July 4th.

Edited July 11, 2019 by retread

[hayden_horn 11362]

by the way, how fucked is it that me, of all posters, is making the argument that the democrats need to move away from the chickenshit center?

i used to make the opposite argument. 

[David Dennison 18925]

Just now, retread said:

^ Re: Rs having no shame and bill DOA, you fight.

For what? The fight was over. Democrats bolted. The only other option was no funding for suffering children. 

 

[David Dennison 18925]

Just now, hayden_horn said:

by the way, how fucked is it that me, of all posters, is making the argument that the democrats need to move away from the chickenshit center?

i used to make the opposite argument. 

I agree 100% that they need to move away from the center.

The political reality is, they do not have a majority in the House without members who won by being in the center.

It fucking sucks.

[hayden_horn 11362]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

For what? The fight was over. Democrats bolted. The only other option was no funding for suffering children. 

 

well, we also got funding for more concentration camps and ICE raids. 

WHAT A WIN FOR THE CHILDREN

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

For the record, Trump is a full blown dictator until the impeachment process begins.  

The law is not going to indict him and the courts can not remove him.  

He can do whatever the fuck he wants. 

Welcome to Authoritarianism. 

Edited July 11, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Asithappens 974]

20 minutes ago, retread said:

This is war.

No, it's politics, not war.

Play the political game. Play it smart. Something the Dems have not been able to do for a while.

[David Dennison 18925]

14 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

For the record, Trump is a full blown dictator until the impeachment process begins.  

The law is not going to indict him and the courts can not remove him.  

He can do whatever the fuck he wants. 

Welcome to Authoritarianism. 

What will impeachment proceedings do to stop any of that?

[wildcat09 29355]

21 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I agree 100% that they need to move away from the center.

The political reality is, they do not have a majority in the House without members who won by being in the center.

It fucking sucks.

"The center" they need to stay in to win is on guns and abortion, not on whether detained children should have access to soap and toothbrushes.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

5 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

No, it's politics, not war.

Play the political game. Play it smart. Something the Dems have not been able to do for a while.

Politics is warfare by non-violent means.  

Warfare is politics by non-diplomatic means. 

[David Dennison 18925]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

"The center" they need to stay in to win is on guns and abortion, not on whether detained children should have access to soap and toothbrushes.  

But they lost to the center on that particular issue. It sucks, but the game was over. Leadership made the political calculus that passing a bill with funding was better than passing no bill. People are free do disagree with that decision. But more people agreed with it. That's reflected in the vote. That's politics.

[DixonHur 11342]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Politics is warfare by non-violent means.  

Warfare is politics by non-diplomatic means. 

[ChickenSandwich 9843]

4 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

This is from a relevant twitter discussion yesterday and I think #2 is on point:

It is absolutely fucking insane that the Democratic leadership and Democratic consulting class thinks that "moderating" on "hey these kids we're detaining should be able to shower and brush their teeth" will help them win votes. The "fuck those kids I hope they get sick and die" crowd isn't voting Dem under any circumstances, nor are their votes needed. Further, magnifying their opposition to "hey these kids we're detaining should be able to shower and brush their teeth" makes Republicans look really bad to moderate voters, you know, the ones they're supposedly trying to target by telling AOC to shut the fuck up about toothbrushes.

Same can be said for those followers believing her lies about drinking form toilets and no tooth paste.  

Multiple sources have called her a liar. 

And still completely ignores the actual problem. 80,000 false asylum claims each month. She has no plan for how to stop this or a limit to how many should come. 

We should spend that wasted asylum claim money on reparations for the African American community instead. 

Edited July 11, 2019 by ChickenSandwich

[hayden_horn 11362]

20 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Same can be said for those followers believing her lies about drinking form toilets and no tooth paste.  

Multiple sources have called her a liar. 

And still completely ignores the actual problem. 80,000 false asylum claims each month. She has no plan for how to stop this or a limit to how many should come. 

We should spend that wasted asylum claim money on reparations for the African American community instead. 

the government actually argued in court about not giving these prisoners toothpaste. 

that actually happened. 

that is not fake news.

watch it here: 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2019/jun/23/us-government-lawyer-detained-children-do-not-need-soap-blankets-video

 

 

[retread 2951]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Politics is warfare by non-violent means.  

Warfare is politics by non-diplomatic means. 

I mean, very few of the normal rules apply today. Like Asit said earlier, you can't shame the Rs (at least not easily). It's true that it will be difficult. Like DD said, several Ds in the House derailed everything by insisting on the milquetoast bill that funded concentration camps.

You can either give up or fight. In 2019, fighting means 16 hour days, hiring more staffers if necessary, flooding social media/talk shows/latenight shows/etc with information, traveling to the border and documenting the atrocities, etc. It also means jumping feet first into impeachment and getting every bit of info out there.

If you're not willing to do all that and more, then the Rs have probably won, and America has lost.

[David Dennison 18925]

2 hours ago, retread said:

I mean, very few of the normal rules apply today. Like Asit said earlier, you can't shame the Rs (at least not easily). It's true that it will be difficult. Like DD said, several Ds in the House derailed everything by insisting on the milquetoast bill that funded concentration camps.

You can either give up or fight. In 2019, fighting means 16 hour days, hiring more staffers if necessary, flooding social media/talk shows/latenight shows/etc with information, traveling to the border and documenting the atrocities, etc. It also means jumping feet first into impeachment and getting every bit of info out there.

If you're not willing to do all that and more, then the Rs have probably won, and America has lost.

As it stands right now, Nancy Pelosi has more to fear from the middle of her caucus than the left. They control more votes.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

They should fear her, not the other way around. 

[David Dennison 18925]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

They should fear her, not the other way around. 

They do. But when they have a voting bloc, they have power. It's larger than the left's.

[DixonHur 11342]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

They do. But when they have a voting bloc, they have power. It's larger than the left's.

Exactly why not bringing it to the floor for a vote would have been the right move.

Not sure why you have such a hard-on for her.  Your mental gymnastics are up there with the Trumpkins.

[HtownHorn 14727]

6 hours ago, retread said:

Meanwhile 80 immigrants are still standing in a room designed for 40 people. MAGA.

They are free to leave at any time.

This thread is a joy to read.

[David Dennison 18925]

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

Exactly why not bringing it to the floor for a vote would have been the right move.

Not sure why you have such a hard-on for her.  Your mental gymnastics are up there with the Trumpkins.

I don't have a hard on for her. I supported the bill that would have failed. 

Having said that, Nancy Pelosi knows exactly what she's doing. She was handed a bill that passed with overwhelming Democratic support in the Senate. She had 18 moderates tell her that they would kill the bill if they made changes. Knowing that, not passing a bill would have been much worse politically than passing what they did. You know that by counting the number of Democratic "yeas." She had no choice but to bring that bill to the floor and get it passed. Sending her members home having done nothing was not an option.

[swraith 347]

It appears Pelosi has 2 tests coming up.

Defense Authorization Bill. House version has language preventing Presidential unilateral war with Iran. Senate lacks that language. Will Pelosi prioritize that? Can she force the issue ?

US Debt ceiling. Everyone knows it’s going to get raised. Some members of GOP allegedly do not want to vote on it as a stand alone item. In that case, Pelosi would be expected for Dems to extract concessions from GOP. Will that happen? Or will cocaine Mitch dictate the terms ?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

25 minutes ago, swraith said:

It appears Pelosi has 2 tests coming up.

Defense Authorization Bill. House version has language preventing Presidential unilateral war with Iran. Senate lacks that language. Will Pelosi prioritize that? Can she force the issue ?

US Debt ceiling. Everyone knows it’s going to get raised. Some members of GOP allegedly do not want to vote on it as a stand alone item. In that case, Pelosi would be expected for Dems to extract concessions from GOP. Will that happen? Or will cocaine Mitch dictate the terms ?

Can Donald Trump exploit these events for political or distraction purposes?   If so, he will.

[Captainant 27680]

30 minutes ago, swraith said:

It appears Pelosi has 2 tests coming up.

Defense Authorization Bill. House version has language preventing Presidential unilateral war with Iran. Senate lacks that language. Will Pelosi prioritize that? Can she force the issue ?

US Debt ceiling. Everyone knows it’s going to get raised. Some members of GOP allegedly do not want to vote on it as a stand alone item. In that case, Pelosi would be expected for Dems to extract concessions from GOP. Will that happen? Or will cocaine Mitch dictate the terms ?

She's going to capitulate. Centrist/establishment dems and their fluffers like dennison will say it's good politics despite it being the exact opposite of what people voted for in the blue wave. And the dems will continue to pass all sorts of meaningless, do-nothing legislation in the house while abdicating their responsibilities of checks and balances.

[David Dennison 18925]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

She's going to capitulate. Centrist/establishment dems and their fluffers like dennison will say it's good politics despite it being the exact opposite of what people voted for in the blue wave. And the dems will continue to pass all sorts of meaningless, do-nothing legislation in the house while abdicating their responsibilities of checks and balances.

You just hate politics. 

And that's OK.

[Captainant 27680]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You just hate politics. 

And that's OK.

I hate your definition of politics that is "to be as self-serving and self-interested as possible, completely disregarding the will of the people in the pursuit of more money". I hate that when the dems get into power, all they can do is put the same fucking leadership in place that led the party into historically poor electoral outcomes in 2012-2016.

I'm starting to be convinced that you're just trolling all of us, because you offer zero explanation to the strategy or reasoning for the seemingly insane decisions being made by party leadership except for "wElL tHaTs JuSt PoLiTiCs huuuuu drrrrrrrr".

[David Dennison 18925]

16 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I hate your definition of politics that is "to be as self-serving and self-interested as possible, completely disregarding the will of the people in the pursuit of more money". I hate that when the dems get into power, all they can do is put the same fucking leadership in place that led the party into historically poor electoral outcomes in 2012-2016.

I'm starting to be convinced that you're just trolling all of us, because you offer zero explanation to the strategy or reasoning for the seemingly insane decisions being made by party leadership except for "wElL tHaTs JuSt PoLiTiCs huuuuu drrrrrrrr".

It's not my definition. It's the way it is.

I've given you numerous reasons why Nancy Pelosi does what she does. It's all geared toward keeping the Democratic majority in the House and beating Donald Trump in 2020. She believes she is doing what's best for her caucus and the country in that regard. You disagree. That's all. 

Edited July 12, 2019 by David Dennison

[DixonHur 11342]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It's not my definition. It's the way it is.

That's a very defeatist attitude, IMO.

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

She believes she is doing what's best for her caucus.

Hey, I've got a novel idea.  How about doing what's best for the country instead of her clique?  That's 100% the definition of party over country.

Good thing the founding fathers had more of a spine than Aunt Nancy or we'd still be saluting the Union Jack. 

[David Dennison 18925]

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

That's a very defeatist attitude, IMO.

Hey, I've got a novel idea.  How about doing what's best for the country instead of her clique?  That's 100% the definition of party over country.

Good thing the founding fathers had more of a spine than Aunt Nancy or we'd still be saluting the Union Jack. 

That would be great. But the person who does that will never be elected Speaker of the House.

[DixonHur 11342]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

That would be great. But the person who does that will never be elected Speaker of the House.

She doesn't need to get elected...she IS the Speaker of the House.