Nancy Pelosi is a badass MF and I want her to be Speaker

[immamac 42850]

2 hours ago, crash_davis said:

China is well ahead of us in chip manufacturing. They are a only few years behind Taiwan in capability. We are at least a decade. They can live through the chip issue much better than we can. 

So we start shit now. We'll be a severe disadvantage re chip manufacturing. We'll need continued chip production for a long protracted war, especially since we'll be supporting two wars, Ukraine and Taiwan.

It's not our fucks that matter. It's China's.

This is just false. We own all the IP and understand the processes to fab chips. The only thing holding the US back from building fabs quickly and catching up is that it isn't profitable and the stock market is rewarding race to the bottom foundry (which Taiwan obviously was the windfall recipient of).

We can have fabs online a lot faster than "a decade" if privately held companies weren't the only ones footing the bill for the fabs and the companies flooding TSMC with the IP to do the fab stopped doing anything for future nodes. This isn't a technology or capability problem this is a resource and capital allocation problem. 

[Horn Dog 9856]

16 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

She couldn’t back out of the trip after China threatened. The US has a credibility issue as an ally and I actually like flipping the bird to the second largest super power in the world with a move that signals our commitment to an ally. People can worry about escalating tensions all they want, but the reality is that China is not, had not, will not ever be a friend to the United States. They will continue to trade with us because it makes them rich and provides a plethora of strategic inroads into our critical infrastructure. Food, materials, electronics with built in hardware backdoors, apps with malicious code, you name it. 
 

To sum it up, we can’t hurt our relationship with China because China doesn’t conduct diplomacy in good faith. We’ll never have a mutually beneficial relationship with China under Xi. 

Exactly.  If we are actually dealing with a Chinese leadership that is willing to go to war over something this stupid then we need to know that while they are the 2nd largest super power and not the 1st.   If this is going down, lets go now while the world is shitty on so many fronts.  No point in rebuilding everything back up and then tearing it all back down in a few years.  

[Bateshorn 9927]

5 minutes ago, immamac said:

This is just false. We own all the IP and understand the processes to fab chips. The only thing holding the US back from building fabs quickly and catching up is that it isn't profitable and the stock market is rewarding race to the bottom foundry (which Taiwan obviously was the windfall recipient of).

We can have fabs online a lot faster than "a decade" if privately held companies weren't the only ones footing the bill for the fabs and the companies flooding TSMC with the IP to do the fab stopped doing anything for future nodes. This isn't a technology or capability problem this is a resource and capital allocation problem. 

This.  Just like with Rare Earth mining, China's advantage isn't tech or savvy or less regs or whatever, it's that they do it much much much cheaper than we can, so PE isn't going to invest in it. Why would I build a factory here when I can get it for a fraction of the price from Asia, including shipping? That mindset is what got us in this problem.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

2 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

Remember when Trump took a congratulations call from the leader of Taiwan in 2016, and a bunch of people got upset because he wasn't following the "One China" policy? 

Man, I actually don't remember that.  Maybe that admission should go in the 'growing old sucks' thread.  Oops.  

I do remember the heat from him seemingly desiring a trade war with China.  I mean, I think I do.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

China ain't going to do anything militarily with Pelosi there. China isn't prepared to takeover Taiwan and why would they start an attack that doesn't include taking over Taiwan.

 

[crash_davis 23113]

16 minutes ago, immamac said:

This is just false. We own all the IP and understand the processes to fab chips. The only thing holding the US back from building fabs quickly and catching up is that it isn't profitable and the stock market is rewarding race to the bottom foundry (which Taiwan obviously was the windfall recipient of).

We can have fabs online a lot faster than "a decade" if privately held companies weren't the only ones footing the bill for the fabs and the companies flooding TSMC with the IP to do the fab stopped doing anything for future nodes. This isn't a technology or capability problem this is a resource and capital allocation problem. 

This is the most recent article stating that we are behind. A year ago I read an article which stated that we are at least a decade behind in infrastructure to compete with Taiwan. I could not find that article. You seem to know differently.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/computer-chip-shortage-taiwan.html

“Today we barely produce 10 percent of the computer chips, despite being the leader in chip design and research,” Mr. Biden said. “And we don’t have the ability to make the most advanced chips now — right now. But today, 75 percent of production takes place in East Asia. Ninety percent of the most advanced chips are made in Taiwan. China is doing everything it can to take over the global market so they can try to outcompete the rest of us and have a lot of applications — including military applications.”

Even if Congress approves new government investments in America’s microchip production capacities, matching Taiwanese expertise is years away, if it is even possible, the report’s authors say. The United States is already more dependent on Taiwan’s high-end microchips than it was on Middle Eastern oil in decades past, the report said.

 

“It’s almost impossible to duplicate Taiwan’s manufacturing capability of high-end chips, of low-end chips,” said Dan Blumenthal, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. “It’s just the manufacturing hub of the world.”

Although the United States and Europe are trying to boost their own domestic design and production of semiconductors, they do not have the abilities to mass produce the most advanced designs that the Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, or TSMC, can make.

[elfenix 34242]

15 minutes ago, immamac said:

This is just false. We own all the IP and understand the processes to fab chips. The only thing holding the US back from building fabs quickly and catching up is that it isn't profitable and the stock market is rewarding race to the bottom foundry (which Taiwan obviously was the windfall recipient of).

We can have fabs online a lot faster than "a decade" if privately held companies weren't the only ones footing the bill for the fabs and the companies flooding TSMC with the IP to do the fab stopped doing anything for future nodes. This isn't a technology or capability problem this is a resource and capital allocation problem. 

intel's manufacturing is, at worst, less than a year behind TSMC's.  and that's after being stuck at 14 nm for six+ years, which allowed TSMC to finally catch up (TSMC never could get ~21 nm working and was stuck forever at 32/28 nm). 

[Bama Chick 28596]

China is well ahead of us in chip manufacturing. They are a only few years behind Taiwan in capability. We are at least a decade. They can live through the chip issue much better than we can. 
So we start shit now. We'll be a severe disadvantage re chip manufacturing. We'll need continued chip production for a long protracted war, especially since we'll be supporting two wars, Ukraine and Taiwan.
It's not our fucks that matter. It's China's.

So China didn’t give a fuck when Senators Mike Lee, Mike Crapo, John Cornyn, and Tuberville visited Taiwan?

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

1 minute ago, Bama Chick said:

So China didn’t give a fuck when Senators Mike Lee, Mike Crapo, John Cornyn, and Tuberville visited Taiwan?

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/02/politics/gallery/pelosi-china-history/index.html

Pelosi likes to poke China in the eye when possible. I'm all for it. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10236]

8 minutes ago, elfenix said:

intel's manufacturing is, at worst, less than a year behind TSMC's.  and that's after being stuck at 14 nm for six+ years, which allowed TSMC to finally catch up (TSMC never could get ~21 nm working and was stuck forever at 32/28 nm). 

I'm not sure about that since Apple specifically switched off Intel because of their manufacuring issues and problems in recent years. Intel's had a string of issues from design to manufacturing in recent years.

[Armybrat 40847]

24 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

China ain't going to do anything militarily with Pelosi there. China isn't prepared to takeover Taiwan and why would they start an attack that doesn't include taking over Taiwan.

 

Maybe China will cut off supplying the US with Fentanyl.

[crash_davis 23113]

Just now, Armybrat said:

Maybe China will cut off supplying the US with Fentanyl.

Technically, aren't they supplying the Cartels who are supplying the US?

[crash_davis 23113]

Pissing off China and Russia. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/wee692/taiwan_residents_meet_nancy_pelosi_at_the_airport/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

 

[Armybrat 40847]

1 minute ago, crash_davis said:

Technically, aren't they supplying the Cartels who are supplying the US?

You are right. China is probably afraid to piss off the cartels.

[fattyflattie 4639]

35 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Man, I actually don't remember that.  Maybe that admission should go in the 'growing old sucks' thread.  Oops.  

I do remember the heat from him seemingly desiring a trade war with China.  I mean, I think I do.

Chapelle had a bit about it. 

['stache 21815]

8 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Pissing off China and Russia. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/wee692/taiwan_residents_meet_nancy_pelosi_at_the_airport/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

 

Good, fuck 'em.

[immamac 42850]

16 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

I'm not sure about that since Apple specifically switched off Intel because of their manufacuring issues and problems in recent years. Intel's had a string of issues from design to manufacturing in recent years.

Also false. They switched because they wanted to have a lower cost, completely SoC architecture with integrated CPU and GPU with a reduced cost licensing model and a bit more control over the chip design (owning the IP). ARM and MALI are used for apple and they use TSMC for foundry only. 

People keep mistaking foundry for IP/design, foundry is simply the fab manufacturing facilities and output. Think of it as a really fancy 3D printer, but not all 3D printers can do the same things, but if you give it the schematics/blueprint/inputs the printer prints. 

We have a shortage of printers, not a shortage of ink, or blueprints, which are the things that "take the longest" to develop. 

[crash_davis 23113]

10 minutes ago, immamac said:

Also false. They switched because they wanted to have a lower cost, completely SoC architecture with integrated CPU and GPU with a reduced cost licensing model and a bit more control over the chip design (owning the IP). ARM and MALI are used for apple and they use TSMC for foundry only. 

People keep mistaking foundry for IP/design, foundry is simply the fab manufacturing facilities and output. Think of it as a really fancy 3D printer, but not all 3D printers can do the same things, but if you give it the schematics/blueprint/inputs the printer prints. 

We have a shortage of printers, not a shortage of ink, or blueprints, which are the things that "take the longest" to develop. 

I think we are saying the same thing. The chip designs are ours. It's the best in class manufacturing facilities that we are lacking. My understanding is that those facilities have IP and processes which we cannot match. And that it would take years for us to have facilities which could match what Taiwan facilities are capable of producing.

Is this what you are saying above?

[immamac 42850]

I suspect a lot of you also don't know that GlobalFoundries is the husk of fab that AMD sloughed off itself to become the behemoth that they are. As in, it used to be US owned and operated.

Intel is a self foundry only. 

AMD was self foundry only and couldn't keep pace, then split into 2 companies - AMD and GlobalFoundries

AMD then went off and started doing crazy design work and got to keep their valuation on what was deemed valuable IP (chip design) and they caught up to intel just very recently on performance even though they had technically superior nodal capabilities.

TSMC has always been foundry for hire and AMD among others has always had "first in line, help you ramp new node" fab time, but everyone can use TSMC for fab it's a foundry for hire. TSMC never really blew up until NVIDIA and Apple threw tons of money and orders at it because of a new, much cheaper, much more open RISC architecture CPU originally designed by ARM. ARM is basically as close to an open source RISC design as exists and it's licensing is dirt cheap compared to CISC X86_64 (AMD/Intel weirdness IP). Know who else uses ARM? That's right - Samsung (fab in Taylor texas anyone?), Qualcomm, MediaTek, etc. 

TSMC got sued by GlobalFoundries for basically stealing fab capability IP, and now they are joint licensed for the next 10 or so years to just be able to do what each other do because they likely had too much contamination from cross pollinating employees.

Intel's new fabs are intended to also be foundry for hire, prioritizing Intel's product first, but allowing for additional capacity to be leveraged by other chip designers and especially low power, low barrier to entry ARM (closed source RISC) based cores and RISC-V (open source) based cores. 

 

4 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

I think we are saying the same thing. The chip designs are ours. It's the best in class manufacturing facilities that we are lacking. My understanding is that those facilities have IP and processes which we cannot match. And that it would take years for us to have facilities which could match what Taiwan facilities are capable of producing.

Is this what you are saying above?

see my post

[RomaVicta 29908]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The US and the rest of the world screwed up by ever allowing China to get their panties in a wad about the mention of Taiwan. Now is anyone says country and Taiwan in the same sentence, China wants to go to war.

When are we going to rip off this bandaid and recognize Taiwan? It wasn't like we weren't recognizing HK or Macau in the past.

and our Speaker can go to any place in the world where we're invited. 

They see Taiwan as part of China. It was for more than 200 years until it went to Imperial Japan then it went to the great Chiang Kai-shek who turned it into a paradise as part of his desire to rule China.

Quote

Martial law, declared on Taiwan in May 1949,[147] continued to be in effect after the central government relocated to Taiwan. It was also used as a way to suppress the political opposition and was not repealed until 38 years later in 1987.[147][148] 

During the White Terror, as the period is known, 140,000 people were imprisoned or executed for being perceived as anti-KMT or pro-Communist.[149] Many citizens were arrested, tortured, imprisoned and executed for their real or perceived link to the Chinese Communist Party. Since these people were mainly from the intellectual and social elite, an entire generation of political and social leaders was decimated.

In 1998, a law was passed to create the "Compensation Foundation for Improper Verdicts" which oversaw compensation to White Terror victims and families. President Ma Ying-jeou made an official apology in 2008, expressing hope that there would never be a tragedy similar to White Terror.[150]

I remember my parents speaking fondly of Chiang. Great American ally. Sort of typical of our post-war promotion of freedom and liberty throughout the world.

Hilariously, the US did not recognize mainland China and Mao as representative of China until Nixon. A pundit of the time stated that recognizing China was about as impressive as recognizing the Pacific Ocean. It just undid a particularly loony American policy because of the fear about communism. 

But Roma, communism was bad! Of course it was. It provided an excellent opportunity for the US to promote Western ideals instead of being thugs for American corporations particularly in Latin America. As usual, the most powerful country in the world was driven by fear. Were we better than the Soviets and Mao? Is that really the bar we want to set for ourselves?

It's still the same old story.

[RomaVicta 29908]

52 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

So China didn’t give a fuck when Senators Mike Lee, Mike Crapo, John Cornyn, and Tuberville visited Taiwan?

A friend of Russia's is a friend of theirs.

[washparkhorn 9939]

NYT Thomas Friedman oped on why the Pelosi trip was not a good idea:

Quote

I have a lot of respect for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. But if she does go ahead with a visit to Taiwan this week, against President Biden’s wishes, she will be doing something that is utterly reckless, dangerous and irresponsible.

Nothing good will come of it. Taiwan will not be more secure or more prosperous as a result of this purely symbolic visit, and a lot of bad things could happen. These include a Chinese military response that could result in the U.S. being plunged into indirect conflicts with a nuclear-armed Russia and a nuclear-armed China at the same time.

And if you think our European allies — who are facing an existential war with Russia over Ukraine — will join us if there is U.S. conflict with China over Taiwan, triggered by this unnecessary visit, you are badly misreading the world.

Let’s start with the indirect conflict with Russia, and how Pelosi’s visit to Taiwan now looms over it.

ADVERTISEMENT

There are moments in international relations when you need to keep your eyes on the prize. Today that prize is crystal clear: We must ensure that Ukraine is able, at a minimum, to blunt — and, at a maximum, reverse — Vladimir Putin’s unprovoked invasion, which if it succeeds will pose a direct threat to the stability of the whole European Union.

To help create the greatest possibility of Ukraine reversing Putin’s invasion, Biden and his national security adviser Jake Sullivan held a series of very tough meetings with China’s leadership, imploring Beijing not to enter the Ukraine conflict by providing military assistance to Russia — and particularly now, when Putin’s arsenal has been diminished by five months of grinding war.

Biden, according to a senior U.S. official, personally told President Xi Jinping that if China entered the war in Ukraine on Russia’s side, Beijing would be risking access to its two most important export markets — the United States and the European Union. (China is one of the best countries in the world at manufacturing drones, which are precisely what Putin’s troops need most right now.)

By all indications, U.S. officials tell me, China has responded by not providing military aid to Putin — at a time when the U.S. and NATO have been giving Ukraine intelligence support and a significant number of advanced weapons that have done serious damage to the military of Russia, China’s ostensible ally.

Given all of that, why in the world would the speaker of the House choose to visit Taiwan and deliberately provoke China now, becoming the most senior U.S. official to visit Taiwan since Newt Gingrich in 1997, when China was far weaker economically and militarily?

The timing could not be worse. Dear reader: The Ukraine war is not over. And privately, U.S. officials are a lot more concerned about Ukraine’s leadership than they are letting on. There is deep mistrust between the White House and President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine — considerably more than has been reported.

And there is funny business going on in Kyiv. On July 17, Zelensky fired his country’s prosecutor general and the leader of its domestic intelligence agency — the most significant shake-up in his government since the Russian invasion in February. It would be the equivalent of Biden firing Merrick Garland and Bill Burns on the same day. But I have still not seen any reporting that convincingly explains what that was all about. It is as if we don’t want to look too closely under the hood in Kyiv for fear of what corruption or antics we might see, when we have invested so much there. (More on the dangers of that another day.)

Meanwhile, senior U.S. officials still believe that Putin is quite prepared to consider using a small nuclear weapon against Ukraine if he sees his army facing certain defeat.

In short, this Ukraine war is SO not over, SO not stable, SO not without dangerous surprises that can pop out on any given day. Yet in the middle of all of this we are going to risk a conflict with China over Taiwan, provoked by an arbitrary and frivolous visit by the speaker of the House?

It is Geopolitics 101 that you don’t court a two-front war with the other two superpowers at the same time.

Now, let’s turn to the potential for an indirect conflict with China, and how Pelosi’s visit could trigger it.

According to Chinese news reports, Xi told Biden on their phone call last week, alluding to U.S. involvement in Taiwan’s affairs, such as a possible Pelosi visit, “whoever plays with fire will get burnt.”

Biden’s national security team made clear to Pelosi, a longtime advocate for human rights in China, why she should not go to Taiwan now. But the president did not call her directly and ask her not to go, apparently worried he would look soft on China, leaving an opening for Republicans to attack him before the midterms.

It is a measure of our political dysfunction that a Democratic president cannot deter a Democratic House speaker from engaging in a diplomatic maneuver that his entire national security team — from the C.I.A. director to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs — deemed unwise.

To be sure, there is an argument that Biden should just call Xi’s bluff, back Pelosi to the hilt and tell Xi that if he threatens Taiwan in any way, it’s China that “will get burnt.”

That might work. It might even feel good for a day. It also might start World War III.

In my view, Taiwan should have just asked Pelosi not to come at this time. I so admire Taiwan and the economy and democracy that it has built since the end of World War II. I have visited Taiwan numerous times over the last 30 years and have personally witnessed how much has changed in Taiwan in that time — so much.

But there is one thing that has not changed for Taiwan: Its geography!

Taiwan is still a tiny island, now with 23 million people, roughly 100 miles off the coast of a giant mainland China, with 1.4 billion people, who claim Taiwan as part of the Chinese motherland. Places that forget their geography get in trouble.

Do not mistake this for pacifism on my part. I believe it is a vital U.S. national interest to defend Taiwan’s democracy, in the event of an unprovoked Chinese invasion.

But if we are going to get into a conflict with Beijing, at least let it be on our timing and our issues. Our issues are China’s increasingly aggressive behavior on a wide range of fronts — from cyberintrusions to intellectual property theft to military maneuvers in the South China Sea.

That said, this is not the time for poking at China, especially considering what a sensitive time it is in Chinese politics. Xi is on the eve of locking in an indefinite extension of his role as China’s leader at the 20th Communist Party Congress, expected to be this fall. The Chinese Communist Party has always made clear that reunification of Taiwan and mainland China is its “historical task,” and, since coming to power in 2012, Xi has steadily and recklessly underscored his commitment to that task with aggressive military maneuvers around Taiwan.

By visiting, Pelosi will actually give Xi an opportunity to divert attention from his own failures — a whack-a-mole strategy of trying to shut down the spread of Covid-19 by using lockdowns of China’s major cities, a huge real estate bubble that is now deflating and threatening a banking crisis and an immense mountain of government debt resulting from Xi’s unrestrained support for state-owned industries.

I seriously doubt that Taiwan’s current leadership, in its heart of hearts, wants this Pelosi visit now. Anyone who has followed the cautious behavior of President Tsai Ing-wen, of Taiwan’s pro-independence-leaning Democratic Progressive Party, since her election in 2016 has to be impressed by her consistent efforts to defend Taiwan’s independence while not givingChina an easy excuse for military action against Taiwan.

Alas, I fear that the growing consensus in Xi’s China is that the Taiwan question can only be resolved militarily, but China wants to do it on its own schedule. Our goal should be to deter China from such a military endeavor on OUR schedule — which is forever.

But the best way to do that is to arm Taiwan into what military analysts call a porcupine — bristling with so many missiles that China would never want to lay hands on it — while saying and doing as little as possible to provoke China into thinking that it MUST lay hands on it now. Pursuing anything else than that balanced approach would be an awful mistake, with vast and unpredictable consequences.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/01/opinion/nancy-pelosi-taiwan-china.html
 

[elfenix 34242]

1 hour ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

I'm not sure about that since Apple specifically switched off Intel because of their manufacuring issues and problems in recent years. Intel's had a string of issues from design to manufacturing in recent years.

intel's design issues mainly have stemmed from being stuck at 14 nm for 7 years.  they had to back port several designs because of that.  they were stuck on skylake and derivatives for 5 years and had 4 different performance cores on the market at once. 

apple is apple and always wanted to do its own thing.  it has benefits to doing so - they can model their operating system and applications really well and gear their processors to those workloads and vice versa.  it's expensive to do that but when you only sell premium products, are the most valuable company in the world and you're sitting on a mountain of cash that makes most nation-states jealous you can do it. 

also keep in mind that the firestorm core (M1/A14) isn't particularly small at 9 mm2.  that compares to an intel golden cove (alder lake - 12th gen) at 7 mm2 and amd zen3 (ryzen 5k parts, but not all of them) at 4.3 mm2.   apple has put a ton of work into designing those cores and making them as fast as they are. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by elfenix

[elfenix 34242]

4 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

NYT Thomas Friedman oped on why the Pelosi trip was not a good idea:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/01/opinion/nancy-pelosi-taiwan-china.html
 

Quote

“Your toilet’s backed up,” Friedman announced as he came out, visibly relieved and almost giddy, still wiping his hands on his Dockers. “But you know, I just flew back from Shanghai, and let me tell you, the lavatories in the airport there are world-class. You don’t see anything, you don’t touch anything, and away it goes, right down the modern, rust-free pipes.”
“So you clogged my toilet?” I asked. I was, I confess, a bit annoyed, but also fascinated by the way Friedman's trip to the restroom had brought back what I imagined to be his usual élan.

https://3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2009/06/thomas-friedman-clogged-my-toilet-1.html

[MonkeyDoughnut 10236]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

Also false. They switched because they wanted to have a lower cost, completely SoC architecture with integrated CPU and GPU with a reduced cost licensing model and a bit more control over the chip design (owning the IP). ARM and MALI are used for apple and they use TSMC for foundry only. 

People keep mistaking foundry for IP/design, foundry is simply the fab manufacturing facilities and output. Think of it as a really fancy 3D printer, but not all 3D printers can do the same things, but if you give it the schematics/blueprint/inputs the printer prints. 

We have a shortage of printers, not a shortage of ink, or blueprints, which are the things that "take the longest" to develop. 

On a related note though Intel outsourced some of it's own new chip production to TSMC because of it's inability to overcome manufacturing issues at scale on the chips.  That would indicate they are behind in foundry IP.

[Biff Tannen 45687]

5 hours ago, The Ace of Aces said:

I was told Biden gave China Hunter as a quid pro pro. That’s some contorting. 

Honestly, everything they say now is a conspiracy.  They are completely detached from reality.  And I don't just mean the magats.  Everyone that votes R in the next two elections.  Full on batshit.

[RDCanecutter 26443]

5 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Fucking Senator Football Coach went last year and nobody gave one solitary fuck.

That was like telling the dog to go fetch a frisbee.

[Dbeasy 15051]

I have to comment in this thread. Many of you know me as the raving alarmist on the topic of China.  

As I’ve said previously many times, I spent 20 years in China banging my head against the wall unsuccessfully. The place is pure evil. They lack morals, integrity, and honesty. They don’t care about human life or liberty. They are our mortal enemies.

Yet we are tied to the hip to them because we sold our soul to save a few manufacturing dollars and now we find ourselves stuck. 

We MUST stand up to them, including having Pelosi visit despite their threats. The worst thing you can do when facing the Chinese is to back down. That is a cultural failure when dealing with China.

To back down invites further encroachment on our freedoms. And if you don’t understand that the literal freedom of Americans is at risk, I suggest you get educated quickly so that you realize China is a serious threat to our democracy.

Anyone talking out their ass about not upsetting China or listening to some dumb OpEd piece doesn’t know shit about dealing with China. I do. I’ve dealt with them forever. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Dbeasy

[immamac 42850]

17 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

On a related note though Intel outsourced some of it's own new chip production to TSMC because of it's inability to overcome manufacturing issues at scale on the chips.  That would indicate they are behind in foundry IP.

Not x86 IIRC. Intel is getting into the ARM low power game and the GPU game. I believe that is what went to TSMC. 

[RDCanecutter 26443]

4 hours ago, freyguy said:

wake me when China does something beyond bloviated rhetoric....

They are driving lots of tanks back and forth. Because they are angry at an island.

[Biff Tannen 45687]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

Anyone talking out their ass about not upsetting China or listening to some dumb OpEd piece doesn’t know shit about dealing with China.

Who here has been doing that?

[washparkhorn 9939]

8 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I have to comment in this thread. Many of you know me as the raving alarmist on the topic of China.  

As I’ve said previously many times, I spent 20 years in China banging my head against the wall unsuccessfully. The place is pure evil. They lack morals, integrity, and honesty. They don’t care about human life or liberty. They are our mortal enemies.

Yet we are tied to the hip to them because we sold our soul to save a few manufacturing dollars and now we find ourselves stuck. 

We MUST stand up to them, including having Pelosi visit despite their threats. The worst thing you can do when facing the Chinese is to back down. That is a cultural failure when dealing with China.

To back down invites further encroachment on our freedoms. And if you don’t understand that the literal freedom of Americans is at risk, I suggest you get educated quickly so that you realize China is a serious threat to our democracy.

Anyone talking out their ass about not upsetting China or listening to some dumb OpEd piece doesn’t know shit about dealing with China. I do. I’ve dealt with them forever. 

Lighten up, Francis. 

[Dbeasy 15051]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Who here has been doing that?

Jeez dude scroll up a few posts and you’ll see it. 

[Biff Tannen 45687]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

Jeez dude scroll up a few posts and you’ll see it. 

Oh yeah well...

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

12 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I have to comment in this thread. Many of you know me as the raving alarmist on the topic of China.  

As I’ve said previously many times, I spent 20 years in China banging my head against the wall unsuccessfully. The place is pure evil. They lack morals, integrity, and honesty. They don’t care about human life or liberty. They are our mortal enemies.

Yet we are tied to the hip to them because we sold our soul to save a few manufacturing dollars and now we find ourselves stuck. 

We MUST stand up to them, including having Pelosi visit despite their threats. The worst thing you can do when facing the Chinese is to back down. That is a cultural failure when dealing with China.

To back down invites further encroachment on our freedoms. And if you don’t understand that the literal freedom of Americans is at risk, I suggest you get educated quickly so that you realize China is a serious threat to our democracy.

Anyone talking out their ass about not upsetting China or listening to some dumb OpEd piece doesn’t know shit about dealing with China. I do. I’ve dealt with them forever. 

Agreed. I ordered the lunch special at the China Buffet and it comes with unlimited egg rolls but some Chinaman tells me I can’t have more than 10. How is that fucking unlimited? Those people are pure evil and only want to destroy the American Way of Life. 

[Biff Tannen 45687]

1 hour ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Agreed. I ordered the lunch special at the China Buffet and it comes with unlimited egg rolls but some Chinaman tells me I can’t have more than 10. How is that fucking unlimited? Those people are pure evil and only want to destroy the American Way of Life. 

Not the preferred nomenclature.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

50 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I have to comment in this thread. Many of you know me as the raving alarmist on the topic of China.  

As I’ve said previously many times, I spent 20 years in China banging my head against the wall unsuccessfully. The place is pure evil. They lack morals, integrity, and honesty. They don’t care about human life or liberty. They are our mortal enemies.

Yet we are tied to the hip to them because we sold our soul to save a few manufacturing dollars and now we find ourselves stuck. 

We MUST stand up to them, including having Pelosi visit despite their threats. The worst thing you can do when facing the Chinese is to back down. That is a cultural failure when dealing with China.

To back down invites further encroachment on our freedoms. And if you don’t understand that the literal freedom of Americans is at risk, I suggest you get educated quickly so that you realize China is a serious threat to our democracy.

Anyone talking out their ass about not upsetting China or listening to some dumb OpEd piece doesn’t know shit about dealing with China. I do. I’ve dealt with them forever. 

I know, bro.  I know.

Edited August 2, 2022 by MC Fresh Breath

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

3 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Agreed. I ordered the lunch special at the China Buffet and it comes with unlimited egg rolls but some Chinaman tells me I can’t have more than 10. How is that fucking unlimited? Those people are pure evil and only want to destroy the American Way of Life. 

 

damn it, beat to the punch

Edited August 2, 2022 by SmokeyTheBear

[shakahorn 1645]

2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

They see Taiwan as part of China. It was for more than 200 years until it went to Imperial Japan then it went to the great Chiang Kai-shek who turned it into a paradise as part of his desire to rule China.

...

Not to nitpick, but you are missing a short, but imo, important period.  After WWII, Taiwan went back to the Republic of China.  Only after civil war, which ended in the victory of the People's Republic of China, did Chiang Kai-Shek move in and take over.

I primarily point this out because I just read a CNN op-ed that stated that Taiwan has never been part of the PRC, so the PRC has no rationale in taking them back.  Which is disingenuous at best, gaslighting at worst.  Taiwan was part of China, which was taken over during a civil war by a new government.  It wasn't like it was some free-standing, independent territory.

[Horn Dog 9856]

[Underdog 28645]

36 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Agreed. I ordered the lunch special at the China Buffet and it comes with unlimited egg rolls but some Chinaman tells me I can’t have more than 10. How is that fucking unlimited? Those people are pure evil and only want to destroy the American Way of Life. 

Obligatory/ YOU GO NOW!!!  YOU HERE 4 HOUR!!! /obligatory

RIP, John

 

[David Dennison 18860]

Where we at?

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4614648

China announced that it will hold military exercises that include live-fire drills in six zones surrounding Taiwan following House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's arrival in Taiwan.

[RomaVicta 29908]

42 minutes ago, shakahorn said:

Not to nitpick, but you are missing a short, but imo, important period.  After WWII, Taiwan went back to the Republic of China.  Only after civil war, which ended in the victory of the People's Republic of China, did Chiang Kai-Shek move in and take over.

I primarily point this out because I just read a CNN op-ed that stated that Taiwan has never been part of the PRC, so the PRC has no rationale in taking them back.  Which is disingenuous at best, gaslighting at worst.  Taiwan was part of China, which was taken over during a civil war by a new government.  It wasn't like it was some free-standing, independent territory.

Agree completely.

[RDCanecutter 26443]

11 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4614648

China announced that it will hold military exercises that include live-fire drills in six zones surrounding Taiwan following House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's arrival in Taiwan.

So now the birds and fish and chipmunks gonna PAY.

[Chad Fuck 17682]

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4614648
China announced that it will hold military exercises that include live-fire drills in six zones surrounding Taiwan following House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's arrival in Taiwan.

Fire and fury signifying nothing.

[TwiceHorn 31475]

4 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

NYT Thomas Friedman oped on why the Pelosi trip was not a good idea:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/01/opinion/nancy-pelosi-taiwan-china.html
 

That seems like an eminently rational article by Friedman.  Not sure I trust him anymore, though.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Yeah, I’m willing to hear arguments that this trip wasn’t a good idea but not from Friedman.

[TwiceHorn 31475]

2 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

I have to comment in this thread. Many of you know me as the raving alarmist on the topic of China.  

As I’ve said previously many times, I spent 20 years in China banging my head against the wall unsuccessfully. The place is pure evil. They lack morals, integrity, and honesty. They don’t care about human life or liberty. They are our mortal enemies.

Yet we are tied to the hip to them because we sold our soul to save a few manufacturing dollars and now we find ourselves stuck. 

We MUST stand up to them, including having Pelosi visit despite their threats. The worst thing you can do when facing the Chinese is to back down. That is a cultural failure when dealing with China.

To back down invites further encroachment on our freedoms. And if you don’t understand that the literal freedom of Americans is at risk, I suggest you get educated quickly so that you realize China is a serious threat to our democracy.

Anyone talking out their ass about not upsetting China or listening to some dumb OpEd piece doesn’t know shit about dealing with China. I do. I’ve dealt with them forever. 

I think you are basically right, and once tits mcgee made it public she was going, then it turns into an undesirable "back down" situation.

But tits mcgee should never have put us in this situation at all.  It was needlessly provocative.

[chainsaw 9869]