Nancy Pelosi is a badass MF and I want her to be Speaker

[DixonHur 11,295]

DD exemplifies Pelosi and the Dem establishment.

"Why bother trying to do the right thing if we'll probably fail because the mean ole GOP in the Senate and WH?"

I'm of the belief that the only failure is failure to try. 

In the late 18th century the Brits had the best military in the world, and the colonies were a rag tag bunch of farmers and traders.  They could have easily said, "fuck it, no way we can win, so why bother?"

The decision to fight was literally life and death. All the Dems have to do is stand up to the bullies to show they are willing to make life hard on Trump, while rubbing the GOP's nose in their own shit instead of continuing to roll over time and time again. 

They're pathetic.

[Bateshorn 9,927]

On 7/23/2019 at 4:19 PM, swraith said:

The Democrats got their domestic spending...at least I am assuming they did...not having seen any actual legislation yet. What else specifically did you want the Democrats to accomplish?

They got parity between defense and nondefense spending levels.  The approps bills still need to be negotiated.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Bateshorn

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

4 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

All the Dems have to do is stand up to the bullies to show they are willing to make life hard on Trump, while rubbing the GOP's nose in their own shit instead of continuing to roll over time and time again. 

They're pathetic.

I happen to think there are bigger forces at play than just cowardice or political strategy.  

What we are witnessing from Pelosi is corruption, plain and simple. 

Why the fuck did they force Mueller to testify if they weren't going to use his testimony as a springboard for impeachment?  They will never get better political cover to open an impeachment inquiry than yesterday.  No amount of financial crimes uncovered, explosive witness testimony, or unhinged Trump racism will be able to credibly compete with Mueller and his report. 

I almost feel bad for Mueller, almost. 

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I refuse to change the title of this thread.  Let it serve as a reminder that I make mistakes.  

Isn't the title based on a previous similar thread about Paul Ryan, who was also a major disappointment?  Seems fitting. 

[DixonHur 11,295]

23 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Why the fuck did they force Mueller to testify if they weren't going to use his testimony as a springboard for impeachment?

Why did they delay it for a week?  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

24 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Why did they delay it for a week?  

The cover story was to get more time to question Mueller.  However, if they didn’t delay it, we would be talking about the “Send her back!” chants from Trump’s rally instead of Mueller’s testimony the morning after. 

Trump had the “go back to your country” narrative well setup to coincide with Mueller week.  The delay dodged the competition for cable news coverage between Trump’s racism and Mueller.   

I’m not saying that’s why it was delayed, just making the observation. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[David Dennison 18,851]

1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

DD exemplifies Pelosi and the Dem establishment.

"Why bother trying to do the right thing if we'll probably fail because the mean ole GOP in the Senate and WH?"

I'm of the belief that the only failure is failure to try. 

In the late 18th century the Brits had the best military in the world, and the colonies were a rag tag bunch of farmers and traders.  They could have easily said, "fuck it, no way we can win, so why bother?"

The decision to fight was literally life and death. All the Dems have to do is stand up to the bullies to show they are willing to make life hard on Trump, while rubbing the GOP's nose in their own shit instead of continuing to roll over time and time again. 

They're pathetic.

You and I have the exact same position on impeachment.

[DixonHur 11,295]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

You and I have the exact same position on impeachment.

Then why do you defend Nancy at every turn?  

[Biff Tannen 45,665]

So let's say that Nancy does have some master plan.  It would be nice if she would let us all know about it instead of looking like an ineffectual fucktard up there.  This is how people lose the will to fight.

[retread 2,951]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I happen to think there are bigger forces at play than just cowardice or political strategy.  

What we are witnessing from Pelosi is corruption, plain and simple. 

Why the fuck did they force Mueller to testify if they weren't going to use his testimony as a springboard for impeachment?  They will never get better political cover to open an impeachment inquiry than yesterday.  No amount of financial crimes uncovered, explosive witness testimony, or unhinged Trump racism will be able to credibly compete with Mueller and his report. 

I almost feel bad for Mueller, almost. 

Yep. At best, she's playing prevent defense and abrogating the House's constitutional duty to hold the President accountable.

[F250 28,764]

1 hour ago, Mojo Hand said:

Isn't the title based on a previous similar thread about Paul Ryan, who was also a major disappointment?  Seems fitting. 

Yes it was. I am not sure why people put any hope into a Speaker of the House, the nature of their job is to cater to special interests and the welfare of the Party. An ideologue will never become Speaker, it takes a soulless pragmatist to get the job done.

 

[wildcat09 29,347]

This is a great piece.  The whole thing should be required reading but the TLDR is:

Quote

The long-run cost here is that leadership that does nothing turns us all into nihilists, whether we like it or not. It says that values don’t matter as long as decorum is observed, and that elites are in charge, preferably behind closed doors, where the public can’t second-guess what they’re doing or demand that they do more. In this scheme of things, norms and laws are perfunctory theater, at best. Anyone who’s savvy enough and has enough resources can do exactly what Trump has done, and do it with impunity, and in a more damaging way, because there’s now a roadmap for doing it. And under such conditions, the only way to survive in a system governed entirely by nihilism is to become a nihilist yourself—even for self-styled members of a resistance.  

If that happens, no one will be patting Nancy Pelosi on the back for short-term risk avoidance, and it will be, by far, the most damaging thing to tarnish her long history of accomplishments. We’ll only remember that she could have done something, and she didn’t. 

 

[Biff Tannen 45,665]

31 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

So let's say that Nancy does have some master plan.  It would be nice if she would let us all know about it instead of looking like an ineffectual fucktard up there.  This is how people lose the will to fight.

 

9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

This is a great piece.  The whole thing should be required reading but the TLDR is:

 

Pretty much exactly what I said.

[Longhornfan1024 1,707]

Nancy is the general in The Last Jedi who "has a plan" but doesn't actually tell anyone and ultimately ends up getting almost everyone killed because her plan and leadership suck.  

[Biff Tannen 45,665]

21 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

Nancy is the general in The Last Jedi who "has a plan" but doesn't actually tell anyone and ultimately ends up getting almost everyone killed because her plan and leadership suck.  

So she's going to run away from the problem just fast enough to stay out of reach and then double back and obliterate the dotard by cutting through him at light speed?

[ChickenSandwich 9,829]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

So let's say that Nancy does have some master plan.  It would be nice if she would let us all know about it instead of looking like an ineffectual fucktard up there.  This is how people lose the will to fight.

As soon as the remaining ships in the rebel fleet are evacuated she will accelerate to “ramming speed” and destroy the empire’s command ships crippling the command and control center of the empire. 

*missed Biff reply. Well played 

Edited July 25, 2019 by ChickenSandwich

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,867]

 

[David Dennison 18,851]

8 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

This is a great piece.  The whole thing should be required reading but the TLDR is:

 

Someone should challenge her leadership.

[retread 2,951]

Even Schiff and Lieu were sounding tepid in sound bites I heard this afternoon. Feels like every last one of them is complicit.

[David Dennison 18,851]

4 minutes ago, retread said:

Even Schiff and Lieu were sounding tepid in sound bites I heard this afternoon. Feels like every last one of them is complicit.

Today is a there isn't going to be an impeachment kind of day.

Yesterday moved one Democrat. Well over half of the caucus doesn't want to start proceedings. The public couldn't care less.

Maybe something will change over the break.

[David Dennison 18,851]

Also in the news today, Nancy Pelosi didn't need a single Republican vote on the budget bill.

[triplehorn 2,664]

wsj today : “House Judiciary Panel Prepares Lawsuit to Enforce Subpoena of Don McGahn”

If Nadler can break the logjam on subpoenaed fact witnesses not showing up, it will be fresh grease for an impeachment process.  

McGahn is the focus to begin to break the logjam, and he’s a key witness for prosecution of Trump obstruction of justice as detailed in the Mueller report.

[Brandywine 1,316]

I’m tired and worn down from all this. Maybe Nancy will get something started after the long break when everyone has forgotten about Mueller and all of Trumps tirades. But who cares anymore. I didn’t even watch TV today. I need a break. 

[suddenly shaggy 929]

8 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

wsj today : “House Judiciary Panel Prepares Lawsuit to Enforce Subpoena of Don McGahn”

If Nadler can break the logjam on subpoenaed fact witnesses not showing up, it will be fresh grease for an impeachment process.  

McGahn is the focus to begin to break the logjam, and he’s a key witness for prosecution of Trump obstruction of justice as detailed in the Mueller report.

If Nadler really thinks that, he's a fool. Trump is going to fight every subpoenaed witness as if it is the first time the issue has been litigated. They will continue bullshit blanket claims of executive privilege for every witness.The media is going to cover it in total isolation, devoid of any context, like they do for every thing else. 

If they want to put pressure on the witnesses that are refusing to testify, launch an impeachment inquiry. Suddenly, blanket claims of executive privilege look like the blatant obstruction of justice that they are. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by suddenly shaggy

[David Dennison 18,851]

Just now, Brandywine said:

I’m tired and worn down from all this. Maybe Nancy will get something started after the long break when everyone has forgotten about Mueller and all of Trumps tirades. But who cares anymore. I didn’t even watch TV today. I need a break. 

After listening to everything today, I'm convinced Nancy isn't going to do it unless more Democrats get on board (at least half of her caucus) or unless there is a swell of public outcry on the left. Think the women's march level of protest.

I am not optimistic.

[triplehorn 2,664]

Just now, suddenly shaggy said:

If Nadler really thinks that, he's a fool. Trump is going to fight every subpoenaed witness as if it is the first time the issue has been litigated. They will continue bullshit blanket claims of executive privilege for every witness.The media is going to cover it in total isolation, devoid of any context, like they do for every thing else. 

If they want to put pressure on the witnesses that are refusing to testify, launch an impeachment inquiry. Suddenly, blanket claims of executive privilege look like the blatant obstruction of justice that they are. 

That’s why you start w McGahn.  Once he’a cleared, the rest of Trump’s claims fall away very quickly.

Also nothing’s changed my impression from yesterday that the Mueller report could end up being less than half of the content of what an eventual impeachment would bring.  They’re holding out for the financials.

 If there’s a Deutsche Bank starboard blow to Trump, and House can enforce subpoenas in proximate time, that’s when you go hard.  

 

[Captainant 27,638]

Man, if only the dems had a strong, vital leader that could drive accountability and public interest in a vitally important issue. Saying you aren't gonna do it because there's no public interest is idiotic. A politicians job is to convince others that their position is the right one. Not to be a fucking weather vane for an overwhelmed constituency. 

Fuck you for justifying and backing her feckless lack of leadership, Dennison. 

[LongestHorn 759]

6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Man, if only the dems had a strong, vital leader that could drive accountability and public interest in a vitally important issue. Saying you aren't gonna do it because there's no public interest is idiotic. A politicians job is to convince others that their position is the right one. Not to be a fucking weather vane for an overwhelmed constituency. 

Fuck you for justifying and backing her feckless lack of leadership, Dennison. 

WASHINGTON—Admitting she had worries about the rise of left-leaning activist groups within her party, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi expressed concerns Thursday that outspoken progressives could do permanent damage to Democrats’ reputation as ineffectual cowards. “They mean well, but if they continue to aggressively push their agenda like this, they run the risk of fundamentally altering the public’s perception of Democrats as bumbling, feckless chumps,” said Pelosi, adding that this brash brand of politics could be easily manipulated by Republicans to paint the party as something other than a bunch of sniveling wimps who are too weak-willed and complacent to stand up for anything with even remote political risk. “I understand where these groups are coming from, but while it might feel good to vent their frustrations about the state of the country, they could undermine what I believe should be our core 2020 argument: We are dithering, incompetent doormats who are infinitesimally less objectionable than our opposition.” Pelosi also noted that her concerns shouldn’t be overstated, as she knew it would take more than a few activists for voters to associate the Democratic party with the vaguest inkling of courage.

https://politics.theonion.com/pelosi-concerned-outspoken-progressive-flank-of-party-c-1836707083

Edited July 26, 2019 by LongestHorn

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

43 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Also in the news today, Nancy Pelosi didn't need a single Republican vote on the budget bill.

Yes, how wonderful that she was able to give so many Republicans political cover to vote against a massive spending bill that would have otherwise hurt them in their districts. 

[suddenly shaggy 929]

3 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

That’s why you start w McGahn.  Once he’a cleared, the rest of Trump’s claims fall away very quickly.

Also nothing’s changed my impression from yesterday that the Mueller report could end up being less than half of the content of what an eventual impeachment would bring.  They’re holding out for the financials.

 If there’s a Deutsche Bank starboard blow to Trump, and House can enforce subpoenas in proximate time, that’s when you go hard.  

 

Nothing about this is going to go quickly. Trump will fight and delay every step of the way. Frivolous lawsuits mean nothing to him. They may lose, but they will buy time. If Dems wanted to increase the pressure, an impeachment inquiry would do that. Pelosi wants to play it safe under the old rules. Trump is historically unpopular and she is afraid impeaching him and not having the Senate remove him will make it look political. It's political malpractice. McConnell not removing a blatant felon is a millstone she should hang around his neck. It would drive home the importance of voting straight ticket Dem this time. Instead, lots of voters will split their vote hoping for gridlock.  

Mueller has given Democrats two good shots on goal and they've passed on both. They won't get a better shot than right now.   

[David Dennison 18,851]

28 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Yes, how wonderful that she was able to give so many Republicans political cover to vote against a massive spending bill that would have otherwise hurt them in their districts. 

Her and 218 other Democrats.

 

[David Dennison 18,851]

50 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Man, if only the dems had a strong, vital leader that could drive accountability and public interest in a vitally important issue. Saying you aren't gonna do it because there's no public interest is idiotic. A politicians job is to convince others that their position is the right one. Not to be a fucking weather vane for an overwhelmed constituency. 

Fuck you for justifying and backing her feckless lack of leadership, Dennison. 

Uh, no it isn't.

But if it is, she's doing a really good job of convincing her caucus and the public that not moving on impeachment is the right position.

Edited July 26, 2019 by David Dennison

[ChickenSandwich 9,829]

Nancy knows they created a Hoax to entrap the president to punish him for winning an election. She knows the Hoax has been exposed and needs to do damage control and preserve what is left of the narrative. Anything more goes on the record in fine print that Trump was impeached for winning an election. 

[David Dennison 18,851]

4 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Nancy knows they created a Hoax to entrap the president to punish him for winning an election. She knows the Hoax has been exposed and needs to do damage control and preserve what is left of the narrative. Anything more goes on the record in fine print that Trump was impeached for winning an election. 

Donald Trump is a criminal. He should be impeached and removed from office. When he is no longer president, it's highly probable that he's going to be indicted.

[DigglerontheHoof 21,183]

10 hours ago, triplehorn said:

That’s why you start w McGahn.  Once he’a cleared, the rest of Trump’s claims fall away very quickly.

Also nothing’s changed my impression from yesterday that the Mueller report could end up being less than half of the content of what an eventual impeachment would bring.  They’re holding out for the financials.

 If there’s a Deutsche Bank starboard blow to Trump, and House can enforce subpoenas in proximate time, that’s when you go hard.  

 

I flat out don't believe they'll ever see one single Trump financial document  Not one.  We are a Fat Orange Republic and the Dems/courts are enabling it. 

[triplehorn 2,664]

2 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I flat out don't believe they'll ever see one single Trump financial document  Not one.  We are a Fat Orange Republic and the Dems/courts are enabling it. 

What Pelosi said at presser right after Mueller testimony:

“We want to have the strongest possible case, to make a decision as to what path we will go down, and that is not endless terms of time, or endless in terms of the information we want.”

“But if it comes to a point where the ‘cone of silence’ and the obstruction of justice and the cover-up in the White House prevents us from getting that information, that will not prevent us from going forward.”

“In fact, it’s even more grounds to go forward.”

--> Dems are driving through the courts along the correct paths to build a case for showing Trump committed high crimes and misdemeanors.  When they hit a wall, it becomes a focal point to redouble on with the force of an impeachment inquiry.  Being able to show that Trump blocked or otherwise obstructed Congressional investigation and oversight builds your case for the courts when it becomes an impeachment inquiry, i.e. it shows that impeachment is not a frivolous overreach that could have been accomplished in less dramatic form, and emphasizes the ongoing blackout obstruction from Congressional fact finding.  When it comes time to show the courts this is about proving high crimes and misdemeanors, they will have "the strongest hand possible" moving forward and getting the facts, i.e. Trump financials.

Also, Trump's financials will be essential to any inquiry now or under formal impeachment because it goes straight to being bought off, or compromised.  For all the lacking in Hollywood drama Mueller's testimony had, Mueller stated in unequivocal terms that financial compromise, like Trump's pursuit of business deals with Putin in Moscow go to the heart of motivation to lie, obstruct justice, and cover-up.  Mueller's testimony will be relevant in the not distant future.

Trump's financials stand to prove his criminal conduct and Russian compromise far more than his compromise through seeking to benefit from or facilitating the Russian attack on our elections.  The evidence is on paper.  

[retread 2,951]

Hanging with my bff

Edited July 26, 2019 by retread

[Gil Bang 25,921]

 

[David Dennison 18,851]

Sadly, any measure brought to the floor to begin impeachment proceedings would be soundly defeated. 

I'm not sure they even need to have a vote to begin the proceedings, which means Nadler could start them on his own.

Anyone know the procedure on this?

[retread 2,951]

Nadler/Cummings/Pelosi/Schiff all looked whipped in the press conference on Wednesday. They don't appear to have any fight left in them.

[Biff Tannen 45,665]

10 minutes ago, retread said:

Nadler/Cummings/Pelosi/Schiff all looked whipped in the press conference on Wednesday. They don't appear to have any fight left in them.

[triplehorn 2,664]

33 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

 

 

There again, the focus is on getting Trump's financials.  Deutsche Bank in particular.  She also is being consistent that there is no endless amount of time to investigate or amount of evidence needed, even if his criminality is continuous.  Following the damn money is exactly what she's focused on and what's the main hold-up.  Despite the 6 week break coming up, there will be a lot of continuing legal work through the courts on Trump's attempts to block access to his DB financials and tax returns.  

And per my link above, Pelosi said this:

“The stronger our case is,” Speaker Pelosi said, explaining why the House needs more evidence through ongoing court cases before entertaining a resolution for an impeachment inquiry, “the worse the Senate will look for letting the President off the hook.”

If Deutsche Bank financials show Trump was financially compromised by Russia through cash involvement, putting that on blast in 2020 stands to envelop Moscow Mitch et al in the run-up to the election.  If Russia was funneling cash to RNC/GOP coffers in addition to Trump via straw donors and NRA, that would be some meat gravy.

 

 

17 minutes ago, retread said:

Nadler/Cummings/Pelosi/Schiff all looked whipped in the press conference on Wednesday. They don't appear to have any fight left in them.

Not my read on it at all, fwiw.

[Pig Bellmont 8,712]

 

[David Dennison 18,851]

2 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

 

I hope the number grows to well over half of the Democratic caucus by the time they get back in September.

If it does, I think official impeachment proceedings will start soon after Labor Day.

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by David Dennison

[Js1 85,291]

14 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Js1

[DixonHur 11,295]

1 hour ago, retread said:

They don't appear to have any fight left in them.

I wasn't aware that they'd even started to fight.  I must have missed it.

Edited July 26, 2019 by DixonHur

[triplehorn 2,664]

Just now, DixonHur said:

I wasn't aware that they's even started to fight.  I must have missed it.

We're in that stage of a velodrome race where they're balancing their bicycles at a standstill on a steep bank eyeing each other.  If and when Trump's financials release, the race stands to abruptly change pace.

[Zonahorn 8,079]

14 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Nancy knows they created a Hoax to entrap the president to punish him for winning an election. She knows the Hoax has been exposed and needs to do damage control and preserve what is left of the narrative. Anything more goes on the record in fine print that Trump was impeached for winning an election. 

Look at the little conservative pretending his opinion matters

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

Frankly all I want right now is an impeachment inquiry that is actually called an impeachment inquiry. Nadler's committee would be just fine. 

[triplehorn 2,664]

Make no mistake, wrt to timing the impeachment, Nancy has Moscow Mitch and GOP Senate in her gun sights for maximum damage.  She flat out said it.