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Help with repair estimate after a car accident?

Brisketexan

By Brisketexan
in Can You Help Me With This?

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17534

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Posted
16 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Is this fuckery still ongoing?  It's the 2020s....of course it is.

Geico came back with shit.  We sent it to our preferred shop.  They countered and said bullshit, it's $21k.  Geico approved, but only partially -- up to $18k.  The delta is over choice of certain parts.  Per Geico:

"The customer can elect to have whatever parts they want on their vehicle, that right is protected by law. We are only legally required to pay for a quality replacement part which can include LKQ and A/M parts."

So, my concern is whether they are trying to buttfuck us on alternate parts.  That said, even if we turned it over to OUR insurer to handle (State Farm), I'm expecting they too will try to buttfuck us on parts.

You are entitled to be made whole under the law. Period. They don't get to choose the parts. They certainly don't get to pick "like kind and quality" parts because it saves them money. They cost less because they are worth less. Tell them you are not their insured, you have no agreement with them. They can either fully restore your car as it was AND pay for loss of resale value due to the accident, or you'll sue their insured. 

Quote

We have also decided to make Geico feel pain, because fuck them in the goatass.  We have a spare care (my son's SUV, he's away at college), so she's been driving that.  Fuck that.  Give me a rental car, just to cost you money, you fucks.  You owe it to me, so we're going to take it.

Good. 

Quote

Still navigating the injury claim.  My wife has been released from medical care, but her wrist is still weak, and regularly hurts at the end of the day.  My thinking is that we'll negotiate out that injury claim when she's done feeling pain.  And not a moment before that.  If she hurts, Geico hurts.

This is the correct approach. I literally just got a 1.6 mil verdict on a case that started out looking like a minor injury that just progressively got worse and worse. 

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C-Man

C-Man 27225

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Is this fuckery still ongoing?  It's the 2020s....of course it is.

Geico came back with shit.  We sent it to our preferred shop.  They countered and said bullshit, it's $21k.  Geico approved, but only partially -- up to $18k.  The delta is over choice of certain parts.  Per Geico:

So, my concern is whether they are trying to buttfuck us on alternate parts.  That said, even if we turned it over to OUR insurer to handle (State Farm), I'm expecting they too will try to buttfuck us on parts.

We have also decided to make Geico feel pain, because fuck them in the goatass.  We have a spare care (my son's SUV, he's away at college), so she's been driving that.  Fuck that.  Give me a rental car, just to cost you money, you fucks.  You owe it to me, so we're going to take it.

Still navigating the injury claim.  My wife has been released from medical care, but her wrist is still weak, and regularly hurts at the end of the day.  My thinking is that we'll negotiate out that injury claim when she's done feeling pain.  And not a moment before that.  If she hurts, Geico hurts.

Was really toying with handing this whole thing over to our insurer to handle and then subrogate -- paying a $500 deductible that we'll get back doesn't bother me.  But, thinking that we won't get much better repair from our insurer, and they don't provide decent rental coverage ($25 a day -- can't rent a bike for that), thinking it's not worth it.

Bottom line -- fucking asshole runs a red light, wrecks our car, and hurts my wife, and who gets fucked?  We do.  I should have gotten to the wreck earlier and beaten the shit out of the other driver.  At least that way, we'd get SOME satisfaction out of this deal.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure State Farm does not even offer coverage for OEM parts so going through them on that side will not do you any good. The only companies I'm aware of offering OEM parts are the HNW carriers and Safeco's policy can be endorsed to add OEM parts. State Farm lost a pretty hefty liability lawsuit when an insured's car roof was repaired without using OEM parts. The roof sheared off in another incident and the old couple inside were either burned severely or they perished. I'll try and find it on the Googles.

EDIT: I was off on a few of the details. https://www.dallasnews.com/business/autos/2017/08/04/dallas-lawyer-state-farm-directed-shoddy-hail-damage-repair-that-trapped-couple-in-burning-car/

Go to the link to see the photos. I honestly don't know how they survived. The couple was awarded $42M.

 

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A lawyer who specializes in vehicle safety cases has sued State Farm Mutual Automobile Insurance Co. on Tuesday, claiming it directed a Dallas collision center to make a money-saving but inadequate repair that ended up severely injuring a couple when their car was struck head-on.

The federal lawsuit claims State Farm steered John Eagle Collision Center in Dallas into using an untested 3M panel bonding adhesive in place of Honda-specified welding to replace a hail-damaged steel roof several years ago. Automobile insurers typically pay for such repairs.

It's the second lawsuit by Dallas lawyer Todd Tracy in the case involving Matthew and Marcia Seebachan, who were severely injured when the roof gave way in a 2013 accident in Texas' Hill Country. The Murphy couple sued John Eagle in 2015 for the faulty repair. Pretrial testimony in that case prompted the State Farm lawsuit, Tracy said.

On July 7, in pretrial testimony for the John Eagle suit, the Dallas collision center's body shop director, Boyce Willis, said the collision center deliberately ignored and violated Honda's repair specifications when it glued the roof on with the 3M 8115 adhesive, according to documents provided by Tracy's law firm.

That original suit is scheduled to be tried Sept. 25 in front of Judge Craig Smith in Dallas County's 192nd Civil District Court. No date has been set for the State Farm suit, which was filed Tuesday.

Matthew and Marcia Seebachan are represented by Dallas lawyer Todd Tracy in their suits against John Eagle Collision Center and State Farm Mutual Automobile Insurance Co.(Courtesy of Tracy Law Firm)

On Dec. 21, 2013, the Seebachans were on their way to spend the Christmas holiday with Marcia's grandmother in the Texas Hill Country when a Toyota Tundra pickup truck hydroplaned into the path of their 2010 Honda Fit.

The Seebachans had purchased the used subcompact car four months earlier in Denton, not knowing that before they bought it, its metal roof had been glued, not welded, by John Eagle Collision Center for a previous owner. That detail was not included in the car's vehicle history report.

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Tracy's lawsuits contend the collision set off a “domino effect” of structural failures within the car, including the collapse of the car’s safety cage, which punctured the fuel tank under the driver’s seat.

The car caught fire, and the collapsed roof trapped the Seebachans inside. Matthew sustained third-degree burns on his lower legs and feet before he was rescued from the car. Marcia was extracted through the car's passenger-side window.

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"There were massive crushing injuries to their bodies," Tracy said. The couple's arms, chests and ribs were injured and internal organs were lacerated.

Robert Riggs, a spokesman for Tracy Law Firm, said Matthew's burns took two years to heal.

...

[5/5] Matthew Seebachan's third-degree burns took two years to heal, a spokesman for his lawyer said Friday.(Courtesy of Tracy Law Firm)

[1/5] Marcia and Matthew Seebachan were on their way to spend the 2013 Christmas holiday with family in the Texas Hill Country when a Toyota Tundra pickup truck hydroplaned into the path of their 2010 Honda Fit.(Courtesy of Tracy Law Firm)

[2/5] Todd Tracy, the Seebachans' lawyer, filed a second suit, this one against State Farm Mutual Automobile Insurance Co., on Tuesday. (Courtesy of Tracy Law Firm)

[3/5] When the roof collapsed, it trapped Marcia and Matthew Seebachan inside their 2010 Honda Fit.(Courtesy of Tracy Law Firm)

[4/5] Matthew Seebachan's foot was caught under a pedal after the fuel tank caught fire. He was pulled from the car through the driver's-side window.(Courtesy of Tracy Law Firm)

[5/5] Matthew Seebachan's third-degree burns took two years to heal, a spokesman for his lawyer said Friday.(Courtesy of Tracy Law Firm)

[1/5] Marcia and Matthew Seebachan were on their way to spend the 2013 Christmas holiday with family in the Texas Hill Country when a Toyota Tundra pickup truck hydroplaned into the path of their 2010 Honda Fit.(Courtesy of Tracy Law Firm)

Had the roof been repaired according to Honda's body repair manual, which specified welding at 104 spots, the Seebachans likely would have had only "minor injuries," Tracy said.

"John Eagle Collision Center used glue instead of the more expensive welding because it cares more about getting paid by the insurance company than they care about putting a vehicle out there on the road that's safe and reliable," Tracy said. His firm said State Farm paid the collision center $8,500 for the repair.

Tracy specializes in vehicle safety law and re-enacts collisions to determine what causes injuries to his clients.  He had the accident analyzed by automotive and biomechanical engineers in his Dallas crash lab.

"The shoddy and substandard repair work turned Matthew and Marcia Seebachan's Honda into a bonfire," the lawsuit said.

State Farm is "not in the business of designing vehicles, or testing vehicles, or repairing vehicles. And their adjusters are certainly not professional automotive engineers with an expertise in designing vehicles that provide crash-worthiness protection to prevent serious injuries," Tracy said. "No insurance company should ever dictate to a collision center how to repair a vehicle."

State Farm spokesman Chris Pilcic said in an emailed statement that Tracy's claims are "not supported by the facts." The statement said State Farm has "a long, proud history of achievements in advancing vehicle safety" and the company will defend its reputation in court.

John Eagle Collision Center did not respond to a voicemail seeking comment.

The Seebachans' lawsuit has resulted in an outpouring of feedback from the collision center industry, some of whose workers say this type of coercion is not new, Riggs said.

"I think you're going to see all the major auto insurance companies in litigation over this," he said.

 

Edited by C-Man
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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17534

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Clintonaldo said:

It doesn't make a shit. His own insurance company will also use LKQ parts when cost effective.

Yes, it does. It doesn't matter what the other person's insurance company wants to use. He can fix the car on his own and send them the bill. He doesn't have to use their parts or their shops. Period. You're wrong on this. Deal with it. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17534

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Remember, this is liability insurance for another person. What the insurance covers is what the insured/driver is liable for under the law. So, you have to start with the question: what does the law say about liability and damages? What it says is that the driver is liable for reasonable repair costs and/or diminution of value of the vehicle. At trial, a jury would be presented with evidence on what the reasonable repair costs are and then have to decide the number based on that evidence. That evidence will not include anything regarding what the insurance policy says. In fact, the jury wouldn't even be allowed to be told that the driver had insurance. That fact is considered completely irrelevant under the law. Again, what the insurance company wants isn't relevant. What the insurance policy says isn't irrelevant. All the matters is what amount of money it would reasonably take to restore the injured party to their pre-rash condition. The jury would have to decide from the evidence whether the use of LKQ parts is reasonable or not and whether the use of LKQ truly restores the injured person to their position before the crash.  

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17534

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20 minutes ago, Clintonaldo said:

False

See my post above. I explained it for you. He has no contract with the insurance company. He is not obligated to provide it anything or to agree to anything. He can sue its insured. The insured is then obligated to notify the insurance company. And the insurance company is contractually obligated to provide a defense AND pay for any liability resulting from trial up to the policy limit (and in some instances exceeding the policy limit if the insurer acted in bad faith in failing to resolve a claim within policy limits). The insurance company doesn't have any say in how the car is repaired or what parts are used. Its attorneys (or rather the insured's attorneys that the insurance company pays for) can present evidence that LKQ are reasonable repairs that fully compensate the injured person and that other repairs would be unreasonable/overcompensate the injured person. The jury then gets to decide whether it believes that evidence. 

Since I believe you are in the industry, I assume you primarily deal with first party claims and don't know this part. 

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17534

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I'll add that in Texas, even on a first party claim, your insurance company cannot require you to use their shops or their parts. This is the notice that is required to by given by the insurance company in Texas:

"BY LAW, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SELECT WHERE YOUR MOTOR VEHICLE IS REPAIRED AND THE PARTS USED FOR REPAIRS. HOWEVER, AN INSURANCE COMPANY IS NOT REQUIRED TO PAY MORE THAN A REASONABLE AMOUNT FOR SUCH REPAIRS AND PARTS. YOUR RIGHTS CONCERNING MOTOR VEHICLE REPAIRS ARE EXPLAINED IN THE INSURANCE CODE §§1952.301 - 1952.307, A COPY OF WHICH WILL BE MAILED TO YOU WITHIN 15 BUSINESS DAYS. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR MOTOR VEHICLE REPAIR RIGHTS, CONTACT THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF INSURANCE AT 1-800-252-3439."

https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac%24ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=28&pt=1&ch=5&rl=501

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Clintonaldo

Clintonaldo 2574

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11 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Clintonaldo is in TN, I believe, which may have different laws about OEM/LKQ parts.

 

correct and in his quoted part "  HOWEVER, AN INSURANCE COMPANY IS NOT REQUIRED TO PAY MORE THAN A REASONABLE AMOUNT FOR SUCH REPAIRS AND PARTS"  LKQ and Aftermarket are exactly that. The owner of the car can pay the difference of price if they choose but insurance doesn't have to pay more.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17534

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1 minute ago, Clintonaldo said:

correct and in his quoted part "  HOWEVER, AN INSURANCE COMPANY IS NOT REQUIRED TO PAY MORE THAN A REASONABLE AMOUNT FOR SUCH REPAIRS AND PARTS"  LKQ and Aftermarket are exactly that. The owner of the car can pay the difference of price if they choose but insurance doesn't have to pay more.

That is an over simplification.  It is true that an insurance company is not required to pay more than a "reasonable amount" because that is all the insured would be obligated to pay at trial. But, whether particular LKQ parts are in fact "reasonable" is going to be left in the hands of a jury and would depend on a lot of factors. At trial, the injured party would present evidence of the repairs they did and why those repairs are reasonable. They could also present evidence that the LKQ parts selected by the insurance company were not reasonable because, for instance, they wouldn't last as long or perform as well. The injured party could also present evidence that using the particular LKQ parts selected by the insurance company would result in lower resale value for the car. 

Regardless, your original statement that "the insurance absolutely has the right to choose the parts" is demonstrably incorrect. Under Texas law an insurance company expressly does not have that right. And an insurance company doesn't even have the right to determine how much it will pay. Rather, it is an obligation to pay a reasonable amount for the repairs. Whether pricing the repairs using LKQ parts results in "reasonable amount" is very much fact and case specific. 

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C-Man

C-Man 27225

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11 minutes ago, Clintonaldo said:

correct and in his quoted part "  HOWEVER, AN INSURANCE COMPANY IS NOT REQUIRED TO PAY MORE THAN A REASONABLE AMOUNT FOR SUCH REPAIRS AND PARTS"  LKQ and Aftermarket are exactly that. The owner of the car can pay the difference of price if they choose but insurance doesn't have to pay more.

This clause pertains to 'you' and 'your auto' in an accident where you're responsible/liable, not the other party you have hit/damaged. The person you've hit does NOT have any sort of agreement/contract with "your" auto carrier and therefore does not have to accept their terms or conditions. In other words, have it fixed where you want, how you want. Insist on OEM parts.

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Clintonaldo

Clintonaldo 2574

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13 minutes ago, C-Man said:

This clause pertains to 'you' and 'your auto' in an accident where you're responsible/liable, not the other party you have hit/damaged. The person you've hit does NOT have any sort of agreement/contract with "your" auto carrier and therefore does not have to accept their terms or conditions. In other words, have it fixed where you want, how you want. Insist on OEM parts.

You can insist all you want. It doesn't mean it's happening.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17534

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Clintonaldo said:

You can insist all you want. It doesn't mean it's happening.

And the insurance company can insist all it wants that it isn't paying more for the repairs. That doesn't mean it isn't happening. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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blacklab

blacklab 11929

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Posted

Jeff's on North Lamar is still the best.

I have USAA and have made a couple of claims over the last few years. Call and report the claim, they send an adjuster out, they make offer, offer is typically way more than I expected, accept offer, give them routing/account number, see money in bank a few days later. 

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17534

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2 hours ago, blacklab said:

Jeff's on North Lamar is still the best.

I have USAA and have made a couple of claims over the last few years. Call and report the claim, they send an adjuster out, they make offer, offer is typically way more than I expected, accept offer, give them routing/account number, see money in bank a few days later. 

USAA is good about the claims process. I say this as both a customer and a lawyer that has dealt with them.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105139

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I read all this and still don’t know what happened with Brisket’s car or his wife’s wrist? This trend toward mid-season breaks and leaving cliffhangers is some bullshit. 
 

We got the car back.
Today.
Almost SIX MONTHS after the wreck. Guys at the shop said “yeah, this was fucky.” Said they deal with GEICO on a regular basis, and rarely have anything other than the ordinary hiccups. But the first “team” assigned to our claim was impossible. They ended up fighting with them multiple times, for weeks on end, about particular parts. They said it still would have taken a good while because of supply chain challenges, but our car was their longest tenured repair, and had it been handled like GEICO usually works, it would have been probably 3 months. Yay.
Submitting the final injury claim tomorrow, now that the bone is fully healed. We’ll see how shitty that goes (the adjuster on the injury claim hasn’t been nearly as difficult this far, but we’ll see).
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105139

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Damn. Maybe I should verify the rental car scenario on my insurance. 
 

Yeah….we didn’t even use a rental this time - we had an extra car after the boy left for college. So, we saved Geico money (maybe dumb, in retrospect - but I’m also using that to push back against them haggling on the injury claim. Even at $25 a day in rental charges, it would have come out to over $4k.
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SurlyBDR

SurlyBDR 22791

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12 hours ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Damn. Maybe I should verify the rental car scenario on my insurance. 

 

Absofuckinglutely. When I can't procure a part for a non-drivable vehicle for months at a time because of supply chain issues, the vehicle sits. Some corporate repair shops used to assist with rental at times, but I do not believe that is the case anymore with the rampant part supply problems. 

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boilerhorn

boilerhorn 1379

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19 hours ago, blacklab said:

Jeff's on North Lamar is still the best.

I have USAA and have made a couple of claims over the last few years. Call and report the claim, they send an adjuster out, they make offer, offer is typically way more than I expected, accept offer, give them routing/account number, see money in bank a few days later. 

I fully endorse and support this position.  Jeff's did a fantastic job on our '22 Yukon.  Great workmanship.  Fantastic communication.  Highly recommend Jeff's.

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1978horn

1978horn 892

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On 2/24/2023 at 6:06 PM, Dahobbs said:

USAA is good about the claims process. I say this as both a customer and a lawyer that has dealt with them.

I have USAA as well and would typically say this, but a year ago a lady totaled my car and the process of the 3rd party they used to pay me was a beating.  They totaled the car within a week of the accident. It was almost 2 months before I had a deposit. They paid me what I paid for the car 3 years earlier, so that was nice. 

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