Iron Claw - Von Erich movie -Jeremy Allan White, Zac Efron

[Mac8111 2107]

Maura on Newsradio was money.

[Beau Vine 54223]

Not a fan of MT...

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Movie starts off in black and white and a traveling trailer home, great. But start the GD movie with the oldest son, 6 at the time, being alive and the tragically being electrocuted and drowning in the snow with a young Kevin finding him and a Fritz blaming God/himself for not being there.

This is where the story and curse starts. Then get into all the growth and good shit before hitting us with the next tragic buildup, David’s developing sickness and feeling forced to wrestle through it in Japan. Kerry, I believe, soon thereafter won the title from Flair in Texas Stadium, bringing the whole state of Texas to healing.

Also left out where a brain cancerous Fritz pulled a gun on Kevin threatening him “that he was the one son that didn’t have the courage to kill himself like his brothers.”

A lot of the other stuff I could work with.

[WBT 20565]

Yeah, the movie was just too feel-good without that other stuff.

[nolongerU2horn 764]

On 1/7/2024 at 1:00 AM, JohnnyRage said:

Movie starts off in black and white and a traveling trailer home, great. But start the GD movie with the oldest son, 6 at the time, being alive and the tragically being electrocuted and drowning in the snow with a young Kevin finding him and a Fritz blaming God/himself for not being there.

This is where the story and curse starts. Then get into all the growth and good shit before hitting us with the next tragic buildup, David’s developing sickness and feeling forced to wrestle through it in Japan. Kerry, I believe, soon thereafter won the title from Flair in Texas Stadium, bringing the whole state of Texas to healing.

Also left out where a brain cancerous Fritz pulled a gun on Kevin threatening him “that he was the one son that didn’t have the courage to kill himself like his brothers.”

A lot of the other stuff I could work with.

The curse started when Jack Adkisson became Fritz and paraded around as a Nazi

[JohnnyRage 1617]

On 1/7/2024 at 8:22 AM, WBT said:

Yeah, the movie was just too feel-good without that other stuff.

Saw it again. I must have thought the night front porch scene after David's Death was a good time to use the restroom. So I didn't quite pick up on the Kerry/Ric Flair bout, but I still think they undersold it being as it as Kevin's story. The mom watching the ending on TV?

But yeah, after another viewing it is just too depressing of a continual down slide end of a movie. A crying football catch with his pre-teen son's was not enough to digest Kevin's life that still goes on to this day. He's a content man.

 

Ric Flair's take on the Von Erichs before the movie came out

 

 

Shane Douglas' somewhat different take on Kerry's foot and how he lost it

 

[safe sex 11724]

Can't trust a word out of either one of those carnies' mouths lmao

[RPM 26320]

Just watched it. Knowing the real timeline kinda screws up things, but the story is mostly true. I met and hung out with Fritz and Mike when Lake Dallas played Bridgeport in 1970something. Kerry was playing for LD. I know the feeling Kevin must have had. At one period in my life everything I loved died. It's a hard row to hoe. Decent flick.

[safe sex 11724]

Yeah their story really demands long form storytelling to do it "right," but at least the story was told, and told pretty well all things considered

[MissingInAction 25069]

Fritz was the curse. His death was the best thing to happen to Kevin IMO.

[safe sex 11724]

Fritz is one of the biggest pieces of shit in wrestling history, and that's saying something.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

10 hours ago, safe sex said:

Yeah their story really demands long form storytelling to do it "right," but at least the story was told, and told pretty well all things considered

I think a Director with a passion that was willing to keep the family (Kevin) at arms length helped more than hurt. A bigger budget might have given their fame the scope it deserved.

 

But a family that has clung to the legacy for possibly too long, that hand picks a director to make sure the story is told in a sanitized way, may be the downfall of others, i.e. 'One Love'. We'll see.

[Hermanator 7043]

On 2/14/2024 at 1:34 PM, safe sex said:

Fritz is one of the biggest pieces of shit in wrestling history, and that's saying something.

Like a ton of people in wrestling the majority of that family were assholes, and pretty dumb people to boot. What's called a curse can easily be explained as reckless people making stupid decisions. 

[safe sex 11724]

1 hour ago, Hermanator said:

Like a ton of people in wrestling the majority of that family were assholes, and pretty dumb people to boot. What's called a curse can easily be explained as reckless people making stupid decisions. 

Forcing your kid, who didn't want to wrestle to begin with and who'd suffered permanent brain damage already due to wrestling, to continue to wrestle against the advice of every medical professional strikes me as a bit more than just stupid/reckless.

[Dennis Taylor 18820]

Found this video showing how gingerly Kerry was walking not long before his return to the ring. As many of his peers said it was pretty amazing how well he moved in the ring in that condition.  At about 1:40 mark he gers up from a quick set of 315 for 3 

 

[Sandman 3403]

I never saw these guys wrestle back in the day but I knew a bit about them. The claw, one of them died, etc, but I don't have any built in baggage about the story. I just watched the movie and thought it was good. Got a bit dusty at the end. 

['stache 21815]

Watched last night. I grew up watching wrestling as a kid in the 90's, so this family was before my time, and I knew nothing about the story. I enjoyed the film, but echo some of the comments. Efron looks more like the Incredible Hulk and seeing pictures of Kevin in real life its just very different and his level of bulk for the film seems really unnecessary. I also never got from the film that they were truly national celebrities, because I only ever knew WWF/WWE and WCW, never saw or recall the Von Erich's during that era, and the film doesn't seem to convey that the circuit they ran was also big time, if sort of feels like a local circuit. Even when Ric Flair was part of the story I couldn't tell if it was big time Flair or as an up and comer on the smaller circuits. On that note, totally agree that the Flair actor was terrible. It's also bizarre to me that they never really dug into the story lines and how the family had to position itself to make it big and fight for the World Championship, or who was supposed to win or lose in those fights. It's like their toeing the line between they have to earn it like traditional sports and sort of dancing around the fact that it's all choreographed. Like when Kevin goes super claw on Flair, it comes off as genuine anger and nonscripted, but Flair comes in and implies that it was part of the script, which makes sense, because even in the 90s the contenders often would come close enough to winning and then lose by disqualification as part of the story. The line between characters, choreography, and competition is just really blurred and confusing in context. It seems that the dad would be negotiating story lines so one of the kids becomes champ but you only ever see him angry that they have to fight so hard to get there. A few scenes that I recall acknowledge it, like Fritz telling David that he's great at working the mic, but the true nature of the sport seems lost. The best performance in my opinion was the actor who played Fritz, I really wanted Kevin to finish that bastard off at the end. 

[Sandman 3403]

3 hours ago, 'stache said:

It's also bizarre to me that they never really dug into the story lines and how the family had to position itself to make it big and fight for the World Championship, or who was supposed to win or lose in those fights. It's like their toeing the line between they have to earn it like traditional sports and sort of dancing around the fact that it's all choreographed.

Yeah, this made no sense. The dad is telling him "You could get a title shot if you keep it up" and if I'm Kevin or David I'd say "Uhh, you own the company. Write me in as the champ."

[MissingInAction 25069]

In pro wrestling it's all about who draws the crowds/money.

If you're popular you move up the ranks.

[safe sex 11724]

9 hours ago, Sandman said:

Yeah, this made no sense. The dad is telling him "You could get a title shot if you keep it up" and if I'm Kevin or David I'd say "Uhh, you own the company. Write me in as the champ."

They didn't really explain how the NWA title worked back then, but Fritz could not just write in one of his sons as champ.

Edited March 12 by safe sex

[BrickHorn 18231]

11 hours ago, safe sex said:

They didn't really explain how the NWA title worked back then, but Fritz could not just write in one of his sons as champ.

Exactly. As I recall, the various regional promoters sat on a board that chose world champions. And the champ’s job was to cycle through the different promotions to wrestle the local hero and make him look good. They picked a guy who could wrestle an hour a night every night, put a less capable performer over, and put butts in seats. 

Flair traveled from state to state wrestling each company’s top guy, pretending to get his ass kicked for 55 minutes, and then somehow cheating to win or eking out a DQ loss or finding some other cheap way to retain the belt. The local fans would come away thinking their guy proved himself superior to the champ and only lost due to bad luck, which surely wouldn’t intervene in the rematch. (What are the chances Flair could escape certain defeat through pure dumb luck a second time?) And then they’d rush to buy tickets for the next time Flair came to town. 

[Pato del Muerto 52495]

Yeah they created the rules about belts not changing hands on a dq, then made some easy dq rules like the 20 count outside the ring or the ref would actually catch the illegal object being used by the heel. 
 

I member when they would still occasionally do a 2 of 3 falls match, or a most falls in 60 minutes match. 
 

that disappeared in the 90s as they wanted to get more of the roster in the ring for audiences or tv to see, and see who gets heat so they know who to promote. 

[Dennis Taylor 18820]

21 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Exactly. As I recall, the various regional promoters sat on a board that chose world champions. And the champ’s job was to cycle through the different promotions to wrestle the local hero and make him look good. They picked a guy who could wrestle an hour a night every night, put a less capable performer over, and put butts in seats. 

Flair traveled from state to state wrestling each company’s top guy, pretending to get his ass kicked for 55 minutes, and then somehow cheating to win or eking out a DQ loss or finding some other cheap way to retain the belt. The local fans would come away thinking their guy proved himself superior to the champ and only lost due to bad luck, which surely wouldn’t intervene in the rematch. (What are the chances Flair could escape certain defeat through pure dumb luck a second time?) And then they’d rush to buy tickets for the next time Flair came to town. 

Hey man spoiler that shit!

[safe sex 11724]

55 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

That disappeared in the 90s as they wanted to get more of the roster in the ring for audiences or tv to see, and see who gets heat so they know who to promote. 

That, and no one gave a real fuck about the NWA after Turner bought WCW and effectively killed the NWA

[Beau Vine 54223]

Just saw it, thought it was terrible.   Shitty, shitty script and just bad acting.  Holy shit, Efron's wooden.

The casting also really bothered me, because Efron looked A LOT like Kerry, but played Kevin.  And JAW looked nothing like Kerry (and a little bit like Kevin).  If they had switched those two actors, it would have been marginally better.  The Mike part of the story was the only part that I thought was pretty well done.

[safe sex 11724]

Agreed, casting could have been better. And Efron was like...fine I guess? I was surprised at the amount of praise he got. Best acting in the movie by far was Holt McCallany as Fritz.

Has anyone else itt listened to The Lapsed Fan's multi-multi-part series The Lamentable Tragedy of World Class Championship Wrestling? Apparently McCallany used that as the bulk of his research for his role as Fritz.

Edited April 19 by safe sex

[Beau Vine 54223]

[lateshow 1304]

12 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Just saw it, thought it was terrible.   Shitty, shitty script and just bad acting.  Holy shit, Efron's wooden.

The casting also really bothered me, because Efron looked A LOT like Kerry, but played Kevin.  And JAW looked nothing like Kerry (and a little bit like Kevin).  If they had switched those two actors, it would have been marginally better.  The Mike part of the story was the only part that I thought was pretty well done.

I couldn't get past the fact that Efron's accent he was doing just made him sound like Keef from The Righteous Gemstones. 

[mr. sunshine 2826]

Watched it last night and loved, loved, loved it. Great acting all the way around. Except Aaron Eisenberg as Ric Flair. That's the shittiest Ric Flair impersonation ever. Even most chicks can do better

[safe sex 11724]

Yeah, Flair's little bit was a real wtf

[orange dream 1251]

Watched this Saturday night. Grew up on the Von Erich rasslin' dynasty. I enjoyed it, but I had lofty expectations and came away disappointed.  I agree with those who said it would likely be better as a 5-7 episode limited series.  Hard to develop the characters and really examine the loss of each son without it just kind of running together in a 2 hour format.  Is the gut Efron had an HGH thing?  I thought that was weird the whole movie but had no idea how he could be so ripped but have a distended belly.

Glad they made it rather than never having their story told but wish it could have been a limited series instead.

[Mittens 8275]

 

[BigDHornfan 6547]

Pizza Inn was the fucking bomb.

[RPM 26320]

I remember that commercial. /old

[Beau Vine 54223]

Pretty sure that's the Denton Pizza Hut, which, like the Von Erichs, used to be pretty fucking good but tragically died too soon.  

Turned into a Swenson's IIRC.

[Deej 76776]

39 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Pretty sure that's the Denton Pizza Hut, which, like the Von Erichs, used to be pretty fucking good but tragically died too soon.  

Turned into a Swenson's IIRC.

Pretty sure it said Pizza Inn. 

[shadow_operative2.0 15975]

Beau's eyes (& ears) are going. 

[Beau Vine 54223]

2 hours ago, Deej said:

Pretty sure it said Pizza Inn. 

That's what I meant.  It was over by the UNT campus.  Their big problem was that there was a skeezy nightclub right next to it and shootings happened regularly there.  NTSU's star RB got shot and killed in the parking lot one night.  

2 hours ago, shadow_operative2.0 said:

Beau's eyes (& ears) are going. 

Well yeah.

[RPM 26320]

14 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

NTSU's star RB

[WBT 20565]

Pizza Inn slammed and went hard.

Mine also had a sweet cocktail table pacman.

[shadow_operative2.0 15975]

Saturday night on HBO/Max for anyone that hasn’t seen it. 

Edited May 9 by shadow_operative2.0
The 18th, my bad.

[Dennis Taylor 18820]

12 hours ago, RPM said:

https://meangreensports.com/honors/north-texas-athletics-hall-of-fame/bernard-jackson/102

[lateshow 1304]

22 hours ago, WBT said:

Pizza Inn slammed and went hard.

Mine also had a sweet cocktail table pacman.

Still have a couple Pizza Inns where I live. 

[Funk Doctor Spock 12193]

This was a good movie for me and the wife when it came out. The ending got a little dusty in the room. Gotta say Zac Efron, Jeremy Allen White, Holt Mccallany, Maura Tierney, and Harris Dickinson were great. Lily James was fine as hell as per always. All in all, great acting and a solid movie. 

[F250 28773]

As a little kid, I was a big fan of the Von Erichs during their glory days. I didn't really follow wrestling once Kerry joined the WWF. All of my memories were of the WWCW days and I was only vaguely familiar with the family tragedies.

That scene playing Tom Sawyer triggered a lot of kid nostalgia that I forgot about. I wish they had spent a little more time on the glory days and the Freebirds rivalry, I loved hating those guys.

There was a scene where Kevin was working out and kept doing a flip back and forth over the top rope. He does that move in a 6 man tag team match and the Freebirds throw him out the ring but Kevin flips back into the ring. I remember thinking that was superhero shit as a kid. I was hoping to see that match in the movie.

As far as the end of the movie.

[Deej 76776]

Worst casting ever. Jeremy Allen White as Kerry? Lulz. 

 

[RPM 26320]

13 minutes ago, Deej said:

Worst casting ever. Jeremy Allen White as Kerry? Lulz. 

 

It's difficult to get a guy to chop his leg off for a role. 

[mininghorn88 2289]

Just watched this today on a flight from ATL to Seattle. Like posted above, the Tom Sawyer song brought back tons of memories of my youth watching the Von Erichs and also local wrestling from the Hirsch Colosseum in Shreveport on tv.

I enjoyed the movie for what it was able to deliver in the amount of time. Would like to see a mini-series too.

[Pato del Muerto 52495]

2 hours ago, Deej said:

Worst casting ever. Jeremy Allen White as Kerry? Lulz. 

 

 

1 hour ago, RPM said:

It's difficult to get a guy to chop his leg off for a role. 

Maybe they misunderstood when they were told to look for someone that was a foot short. 

[Beau Vine 54223]

2 hours ago, RPM said:

It's difficult to get a guy to chop his leg off for a role. 

Gary Busey would've.

Maybe Kevin Sorbo?