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Louis CK does not like comedy writing in TV

shadow_operative

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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also, i would submit that shows like Happy Endings and Community are two awesome examples of shows that really hit that sweet spot, where at times the dialogue is way too clever and fast paced to resemble actual human dialogue, and yet the writing is original and funny enough for the jokes to still land and for the tempo and feel of the show to not be thrown off by it. 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29199

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louie has never liked joke-to-joke dialogue writing typically featured in a multi-cam broadcast network format.  he's been clear on that over the years.  there is a certain skill in that, and lots of people love it, but i think we as a society have evolved from it, which is why you rarely see it these days.

i've heard "multi is coming back" about every 18 months since 2010 but i think it's mostly over, which sucks, because there's value in it, and a whole bunch of money in it, even if it's not for everybody.

this interview must be old, because of the references he's making.  i assume he's talking about nph in himym, which was a great character for that time, but i don't even know if that specific character or show would even work anymore.  the spinoff certainly didn't.

louie (the show after lucky louie) took a lot of chances and helped get the 30 minute "comedy" format where it is today.  shows like better things (which he co-created), atlanta, dave, barry, master of none, ted lasso - are all influenced in some way by what louie did with that show. 

most writers will tell you that humor doesn't come from jokes, it comes from characters.  you tell your story first, and let humor organically flow (or not flow) from your characters and how they deal with certain situations.  then again, funny is funny whether it's i love lucy, seinfeld, or the office.  there is no wrong way to be funny.

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SimonBolivar

SimonBolivar 10961

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39 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I was impressed he got NPH on his podcast, but that’s not what’s happening here.

 

Loved the episode of Sunny where they make fun of TV comedies and complain about never getting awards

Can’t find a good clip…

 

A really fantastic episode if you knew what they were doing.

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mr. sunshine

mr. sunshine 2837

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3 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

also, i would submit that shows like Happy Endings and Community are two awesome examples of shows that really hit that sweet spot, where at times the dialogue is way too clever and fast paced to resemble actual human dialogue, and yet the writing is original and funny enough for the jokes to still land and for the tempo and feel of the show to not be thrown off by it. 

I’d throw Parks and Rec in there too 

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'stache

'stache 21904

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21 hours ago, Celery Man said:

I was impressed he got NPH on his podcast, but that’s not what’s happening here.

 

Loved the episode of Sunny where they make fun of TV comedies and complain about never getting awards

Can’t find a good clip…

 

This is the scene that really makes the point, especially the lighting and music, and how they start to like it after they get drunk. I loved the episode even before I understood the context. Even funnier when you know.

 

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Celery Man

Celery Man 21026

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31 minutes ago, 'stache said:

This is the scene that really makes the point, especially the lighting and music, and how they start to like it after they get drunk. I loved the episode even before I understood the context. Even funnier when you know.

 

yep that's the clip where it's really apparent what they're doing. also, they reference "Louie" directly later in this episode when they talk about how location isn't the reason that their bar hasn't won an award since the bar down the street just won one.

also love the joke in this scene from dee about how the female bartender isn't funny

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BHMCruiser

BHMCruiser 1818

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20 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

I've never waved my cock in a strange woman's face...except for your wife, and she asked for it on her reddit post. 

Then you don't know the facts of what happened. Thanks for chiming in anyway. Very helpful. 

19 hours ago, mr. sunshine said:

I’d throw Parks and Rec in there too 

and 30 Rock

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Augustus

Augustus 3061

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2 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

He didn’t wave his cock at strangers - he masturbated in front of coworkers. Big difference.

This still just amazes me, and I think I'm pretty difficult to shock.

I can understand thinking it funny, "What if I just whipped out my dick and jerked off in front this female employee?"

I can also understand being rich/successful enough you think rules don't apply.

I can't imagine being willing to make someone that uncomfortable.  That just seems cruel. And that's why it surprised me.  He's pretty cynical but I never saw him as a cruel guy, but you never really know anyone till you live with 'em a long time.

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Celery Man

Celery Man 21026

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I had figured he’d be smart enough to immediately do the right kind of apology, seek treatment/therapy, and put together a special that is both funny and has him walking through his shit/owning up to his fuck upedness/talking about how he’s working on changing and being a better human. Donate the profits to some sort of women traumatized by masturbating ogres charity. I’m not a publicist but I feel like that would have done the trick, particularly if he was sincere. I don’t think that’s what he’s done though.

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TriStone

TriStone 1724

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1 hour ago, Celery Man said:

He didn’t wave his cock at strangers - he masturbated in front of coworkers after asking for and receiving permission to do so.

I fixed it for you.  I'll never understand why that very important bit of info always seems to be left out.  Poster above mentioned "the facts of what happened."  Unless there's a part of the story I haven't heard, then to me this is no different than a woman having consensual sex, feeling bad about it afterward, and suddenly the consensual act retroactively becomes an assault.

Fill me in on what part of the story I'm missing.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29199

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9 minutes ago, TriStone said:

I fixed it for you.  I'll never understand why that very important bit of info always seems to be left out.  Poster above mentioned "the facts of what happened."  Unless there's a part of the story I haven't heard, then to me this is no different than a woman having consensual sex, feeling bad about it afterward, and suddenly the consensual act retroactively becomes an assault.

Fill me in on what part of the story I'm missing.

my understanding was that it was something he was into sexually, and he wanted the women to be into it too.  some of them were, and we probably won't ever hear from them.  several of them weren't, but were stuck in the uncomfortable position of having to pretend to be into it or just kinda go along with it, because he was a big, famous comedian, and they were a low person on the totem pole, and that's just how that works sometimes in certain industries. 

i'm sure there were people who also just said "no thanks" or "fuck off" and either left or just kinda waited it out.  it's been a while since i've read about the whole thing.

i believe he's come out publicly and said it was wrong to put people in that situation, and he understands the difference.  but no, my understanding is that he never just whipped it out in front of chicks/co-workers/employees and just started going at it.

that was one of his kinks, and he "abused his power" if we want to call it that, to jerk it in front of people and gain the satisfaction.  i love louie, always will, and can still say the whole thing is weird and shitty and he was obviously in the wrong.  that said, there are several steps of illegality and depravity that separate what he did and what others did during the same #metoo/#timesup timeframe.

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Celery Man

Celery Man 21026

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15 minutes ago, TriStone said:

I fixed it for you.  I'll never understand why that very important bit of info always seems to be left out.  Poster above mentioned "the facts of what happened."  Unless there's a part of the story I haven't heard, then to me this is no different than a woman having consensual sex, feeling bad about it afterward, and suddenly the consensual act retroactively becomes an assault.

Fill me in on what part of the story I'm missing.

B20C3DD8-9BDE-4929-9FA0-9FD6FC92B292.gif.939b24460461206a942aeb90c71389b2.gif

 

He did similar things a bunch of different times, and the time you’re talking about where he asked for permission they thought he was joking. And of course there are dynamics and what have you. He’s not Weinstein but he’s not Aziz either.

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BHMCruiser

BHMCruiser 1818

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On 9/23/2022 at 7:53 PM, Pig Bellmont said:

What do you say to your boss at work when you think you’ll be fired if you say no? 

There was a huge power dynamic between him and his writing staff

I was not aware of allegations that he did it to employees, his writing staff, or even coworkers (or at least substantiated allegations in that last category).

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29199

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On 9/24/2022 at 8:29 AM, longhornmatt said:

I had forgotten about Aziz.  That has to be a pretty big blow to the ego when you’re famous and (presumably by that point) rich, and you still get MeToo’d just because women think you’re not handsome enough to try to kiss them while on a date.  

from what i remember about the aziz situation, the story didn't come off that bad for him - like you said, more embarrassing or awkward.  but from the girl's perspective (again, from memory), she did not come off looking great.  it sounded like they went on a date, everything was cool, both had fun, both were drinking, she went back to his place, and then was offended when he tried to make out with her and stormed off.

all of that is fine and happens every day in every country.  but then she went online and basically made it sound like he was a creep.  fuck the guys who push things too far, but fuck the girls who use it as some sort of attention grab when nothing bad happened.  *assuming i'm remembering it right and the story was accurate* he had no reason to get lumped in with the other abusive men, and it basically cost him his netflix series.

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'stache

'stache 21904

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2 hours ago, BHMCruiser said:

I was not aware of allegations that he did it to employees, his writing staff, or even coworkers (or at least substantiated allegations in that last category).

I think it was up and coming comedians he invited on his tour, so the pressure was to play nice with him or possibly lose the momentum gained by being on his tour. The pushback I think was over this type of situation where he can say "yeah they consented" but the power dynamics make it much more complicated and the person in power should understand that dynamic. At best it's creepy as fuck and gross if its not part of an ordinary back and forth flirtation.

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Braff Zacklin

Braff Zacklin 13672

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6 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

from what i remember about the aziz situation, the story didn't come off that bad for him - like you said, more embarrassing or awkward.  but from the girl's perspective (again, from memory), she did not come off looking great.  it sounded like they went on a date, everything was cool, both had fun, both were drinking, she went back to his place, and then was offended when he tried to make out with her and stormed off.

all of that is fine and happens every day in every country.  but then she went online and basically made it sound like he was a creep.  fuck the guys who push things too far, but fuck the girls who use it as some sort of attention grab when nothing bad happened.  *assuming i'm remembering it right and the story was accurate* he had no reason to get lumped in with the other abusive men, and it basically cost him his netflix series.

 They went well beyond making out, even by her telling. My inference was that she got butthurt that he blew her off, never called her back. The whole writeup was pretty much a vengeance burn.

2 hours ago, BHMCruiser said:

I was not aware of allegations that he did it to employees, his writing staff, or even coworkers (or at least substantiated allegations in that last category).

Alamy_A14A69-c-29b8790.jpg

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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9955

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He whipped his dick out and cranked one out in front of exclusively female comedians and writers. He and his manager then used their power in the industry to cover up the incidents, threatening and engaging in retaliation against whistleblowers. That he asked for "permission" is irrelevant.  It's fucking creep behavior.  And every dude on this thread knows it.  

You don't agree?  Go into your closest female coworkers office rn and jerk off after you ask.  Let me know how that works out for you.

 

The Aziz store is much more complicated.  They engaged in, by all involved, consensual sexual activity.  After the fact the woman claimed she felt intimidated/uncomfortable during the activity, but reaffirmed it was ultimately consensual, and the way the story was reported/detail has been heavily criticized for failing to meet basic journalistic standards (changing accounts, lack of corroboration, conflicts of interest,etc.)  In Ansari's case, it sounds like, at worst, he was guilty of failing to maintain ongoing/enthusiastic consent. He's just bad in bed.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29199

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36 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

The Aziz store is much more complicated.  They engaged in, by all involved, consensual sexual activity.  After the fact the woman claimed she felt intimidated/uncomfortable during the activity, but reaffirmed it was ultimately consensual, and the way the story was reported/detail has been heavily criticized for failing to meet basic journalistic standards (changing accounts, lack of corroboration, conflicts of interest,etc.)  In Ansari's case, it sounds like, at worst, he was guilty of failing to maintain ongoing/enthusiastic consent. He's just bad in bed.

yeah, without going back and rereading about it, i remember what stood out to me was that they were at his place or something (maybe even others were there too) and then they went out on what seemed like a date.  in her version, she wasn't really into it but then they ended up back at his place alone. 

what happened after that seemed to change in the retelling, but the first version i read i think she implied there were no expectations and she wasn't into him or some shit.  when my wife read it, she was like, wait, why did she end up back at his apartment after the date?  something here isn't right.  without speaking for women, i've noticed that most can casually and swiftly avoid going back to a guy's place after a "date" if they want to.

the timing was also just really shitty and convenient (or inconvenient if you're him) because it was on the tail end of everyone else catching hell for actual bad behavior.  people ran with the story like, "well, go ahead and throw aziz on the pile".  sucks for him because his career hasn't been the same, despite his name getting "cleared".

sorry, we're off topic.  back to what louie thought of 2008 sitcoms.  also if you're a louie fan and you haven't listened to the 2-3x he's been on marc maron's wtf, i cannot recommend a podcast(s) enough.  it is worth however many hours they did together and the stories are great (especially finding the old computer).  there was also one devoted to the making of "horace and pete", something i admittedly just could not get into, but the backstory and process was fascinating.

and the obligatory...

 

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DougO

DougO 5257

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He is correct. I try to watch some of these shows and they all seem exactly the same. The pace is horrible. The characters are cutouts. The storylines are copy, paste, change the names. 

And it's the same way they make modern hit pop and country music.

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